Is anyone else feeling bitter with Gathering Storms' releases?

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**Stormonu**

I don't personally own the books, but of what I have seen I wonder why they didn't split the rules space more evenly between the "bad guys" and the "good guys". At the very least, why wasn't an updated Abbadon released, since the 1st book was clearly his shining moment (and ya'll have no idea how much I hate CSM/daemons)?

Also, the whole series rubs me the wrong way - 40K is changing in tone, and in a way I'm not quite fond of. They're bringing Hope and super-heroic characters to a setting whose two defining memes used to be "Hope is the first step on the road to disapointment" and "But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed".

**BrianDavion**

BTW comparing Magnus to Gulliman is proably a bad idea, other then being Primarchs they don't have a lot in common, Magnus is a "pyskic power house" Gulliman is "Calgar on steroids"

**GodDamUser**

DarkStarSabre

Your issue here is that you want to paly your favorite army in a competitive setting.. which is nice and all, But you are also choosing to paly a game buy a company that has on numerous occasions said that it doesn't give 2 gaks about the competitive.

GW is about making money, and Spacemarines and the Imperium in general are the bigger sellers so will receive the most attention.

Unfortunately this isn't a place where you can have your cake and eat it to.

And while if you want Cypher you will have to sacrifice all of your deamons, (well not really as CoA doesn't overly effect much in the way of gameplay unless the event prohibits it)
Dark Angles cant go around using him or Girlyman, without doing some shuffling about with their lists.

If you want your fun army make a fun army, If you want a Competitive army go get a different army.. And that's the thing with competitive is that if you want to play it proper you are going to have to build new armies on a semi regular basis as new rules and releases happen or just flavor of the month tactics change

**Wolf_in_Human_Shape**

Nah, not bitter. I never really expect anything CSM get is going to be very good, if we get anything at all. Kind of a bad attitude, I'll admit, but anything good is a pleasant surprise.

Traitor Legions was cool, but what we need is a codex update. I don't expect any new units until that happens. Even if we get new models, I expect copy + pasted rules (Thousand Sons Rubricae, other than the upgrades, for example).

13th Crusade isn't gonna take Terra, and isn't gonna kill Guilliman. Have no expectation of that happening whatsoever. Cadia getting blown open was cool, if unimpressive in the events that were involved.

Whatever. I'm still happy with the game and the setting. Maybe one day I'll get rules for 40k skullcrushers. Until then I'll play my KDK/World Eaters and be happy.

**JNAProductions**

What army do you play, GDU?

**DarkStarSabre**

JNAProductions wrote:
What army do you play, GDU?

Pretty sure at this point it doesn't matter.

He's come in to attempt to lecture. And revealed that not only does he not understand what he's lecturing on but apparently has no idea what the competitive meta is at the moment either.

But hey, he got his Superman moment, right?

**mew28**

I mean I personally find the legion rules alot better then chapter tactics. Relentless +1 T and +1 on your FnP and save at the cost of 1I and two points a guy if you compare death gaured to Iron hand one of the better chapter tactics. I would also like to add unlike death guard Iron hands has no non forge world SC.

**GodDamUser**

JNAProductions wrote:
What army do you play, GDU?

I mainly played Tyranids, but now with Genestealer Cult out I am starting them up

Done a fair bit of tournament play with my Tyranids, but have always reframed from builds that I found boring.. i.e. Dakkaflyrants and Dakafex, and have always had a preference for swarm lists.

That being said I haven't played any major tourney for about a year and a half.. last one I do go to I took a Fun list of Tyranids, Eldar and Deamons was a barrel of laughs and placed well

**DarkStarSabre**

mew28 wrote:
I mean I personally find the legion rules alot better then chapter tactics. Relentless +1 T and +1 on your FnP and save at the cost of 1I and two points a guy if you compare death gaured to Iron hand one of the better chapter tactics. I would also like to add unlike death guard Iron hands has no non forge world SC.

RAW Necrosius cannot be taken in a Death Guard army either. It specifically excludes all unique characters bar Typhus.

**BrianDavion**

DarkStarSabre wrote:
mew28 wrote:
I mean I personally find the legion rules alot better then chapter tactics. Relentless +1 T and +1 on your FnP and save at the cost of 1I and two points a guy if you compare death gaured to Iron hand one of the better chapter tactics. I would also like to add unlike death guard Iron hands has no non forge world SC.

RAW Necrosius cannot be taken in a Death Guard army either. It specifically excludes all unique characters bar Typhus.

this is where until FW FAQs it (hopefully they will) common sense will need to be applied. the reason they very specificly limited characters they way they did was as a stop gap. on PAPER CSMs don't have chapter tactics, (in this case we're talking a specific trait to diffrentiate between whose what legion etc) unlike loyalist marines, so I understand why they did it. hopefully we'll see a 8th edition chaos marine codex and they can turn VOTLW into a proper chapter tactics, and then give characters specific ones like abbaddon gets "VOTLW: Black legion" etc

**mchammadad**

apparently this isn't the 13th black crusade

Cause apparently the 13th black crusade is going to come much MUCH later

in the words of tenacious D " This is just a tribute"

**GodDamUser**

mchammadad wrote:
apparently this isn't the 13th black crusade

Cause apparently the 13th black crusade is going to come much MUCH later

in the words of tenacious D " This is just a tribute"

Well these are still preludes to the Crusade.. (So still hope for a new Abaddon mini.. no idea why they haven't done one).. Now Cadia has fallen the gates are open for Chaos to sweep across the galaxy

**Rippy**

jreilly89 wrote:
Rippy wrote:

Tooooon wrote:

Fastforward to now - I've read a bit about whats going on, and know the basics. However I see or feel ZERO threat from Chaos currently - Heck, they've barely been mentioned besides "Chaos has destroyed/overwhelmed Cadia, we're all doomed!" followed by silence while we now have three releases to give some sort of hope against this threat....

exactly this! They had a kind of Victory at Fenris (and I don't care how the Wolves suffered, it was hardly a win), and now they are not the focus of their own victory.

Yes, you can call me a special snowflake chaos (like old mate above), though imagine if your faction was having it's big moment, and the opposite faction got 6 new characters/models!!!

And yet imagine how the Guard feel, not even being represented on their own planet....

Yeah I mentioned this in OP as well, it must be very frustrating.

**mchammadad**

wht's the bet that abbadon is going to become a daemon prince?

**Rippy**

GodDamUser wrote:
Sorry coming in late here.. DarkStarSabre seems to be full of the hurts..

The big thing that I found annoying is he comparison of 2nd Ed Codex with Current, You cannot really compare the two in any sense they are completely different games set in the same story setting.

And you seem to be getting angry because during all the Gathering Storm and the prelude Fenris Burns there have been a lot of things released for Choas Marines... Just not the things you wanted.

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

Cypher is also BB to Imperial and Choas Marines (just be using no daemons)
and if I read right can just be taken as a single model in a detachment for either faction

Hello GodDamUser, you must be new to people's opinions. Just because I said I am personally bitter at Chaos' releases during this period, doesn't mean that non Ultramarine SM players can't feel bitter either.

That same argument can be applied here anyway; I am not a Thousand Sons player.

Your Cypher argument is just arguing for the sake of it? He is returning as a hero for the Imperium. He is just a new model for something Chaos had already.

Let me be bitter!!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mchammadad wrote:
wht's the bet that abbadon is going to become a daemon prince?

Slim to none

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GodDamUser wrote:
mchammadad wrote:
apparently this isn't the 13th black crusade

Cause apparently the 13th black crusade is going to come much MUCH later

in the words of tenacious D " This is just a tribute"

Well these are still preludes to the Crusade.. (So still hope for a new Abaddon mini.. no idea why they haven't done one).. Now Cadia has fallen the gates are open for Chaos to sweep across the galaxy

Potential spoiler

Spoiler:

**GodDamUser**

I know I tend to not buy into the rumors until it happens.

And the screen shot of the of the Dramatis Personae from the Warhammer Community page has a distinct lack of Abaddon on it. So I will be saying Abaddon dying here is a dud

**Rippy**

GodDamUser wrote:
I know I tend to not buy into the rumors until it happens.

And the screen shot of the of the Dramatis Personae from the Warhammer Community page has a distinct lack of Abaddon on it. So I will be saying Abaddon dying here is a dud

I am the same, though I was simply providing a possibility as to why they didn't use this opportunity to release a new abby.

**BrianDavion**

GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

**CplPunishment**

Kanluwen wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
-v10mega wrote:
You got castellans of the imperium and a bunch of new characters to put in your IG list. Honest question, I cant remember what we got. Seriously my memory is pretty bad. But i understand your pain, im just saying that GW has buffed the wrong people. Gathering storm should have buffed SoB and IG (maybe templars too). But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

Guard got the biggest shaft in all of this. Chaos at least got Magnus and a bunch of new splat books. Guard got new units if you include taking guys that are strictly non-Guard as "new units".

Guard really should have been the shining moment of this event, so if anyone gets to feel left out, it's the Guard

I won't lie. I was a bit grumpy at first about the lack of Guard characters. But then after awhile, I came to peace with it.

Why?
Because Guard having unique characters is a pain in the butt. We don't get an option to field "just" Creed or "just" Kell as it stands right now. We have to take the Company Command Squad and then we pay to upgrade one of the models within it to Creed or Kell or whoever.

Example:
Commander Tim, Savior of Chumbawumba. Known for his place at the front of the combat, Tim is an officer who rose through the ranks from an artillery background. He and his Command Squad lead the Tubthumpers into battle, taking position after position with his Scion bodyguards and his trusty Ogryn Dave, before raining artillery fire down on the next position.
Commander Tim comes with his trusted command squad.
Unit Composition: 10 models(Tim and his 8 man Scion Command Squad with a Master of Ordnance and Dave, Tim's trusty Ogryn)
Scion Vox-Caster(Hot-Shot Lasgun)
Master of Ordnance(Lasgun)
Dave(Slab Shield and Grenadier Gauntlet)
Scions x2(Hot-Shot Lasguns)
Scion Medic
Scions x3 (Special weapons; only optional bits in the unit as Tim's Scions draw weapons that are needed before battle)

That's the kind of officer purchase I can get behind for IG.

Totally agree that IG unique characters are too expensive for what you get, especially after tabulating the expense of the command squad. Jeez!

**JNAProductions**

BrianDavion wrote:
GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

Considering the amount of unique stuff you have in the main SM rulebook, I'm not feeling very sorry for the UM players.

**GodDamUser**

JNAProductions wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

Considering the amount of unique stuff you have in the main SM rulebook, I'm not feeling very sorry for the UM players.

Also when you factor in the Mail order only formations Ultramarines do get the most (but then again is their biggest selling product line)

**BrianDavion**

GodDamUser wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

Considering the amount of unique stuff you have in the main SM rulebook, I'm not feeling very sorry for the UM players.

Also when you factor in the Mail order only formations Ultramarines do get the most (but then again is their biggest selling product line)

which formations are those?

**chromedog**

I don't feel bitterness towards GW about this latest turn in the game.

I stopped feeling ANYTHING about the game rules/background 5 or so years ago. Now I only occasionally get 2nd hand models that pop up that I like the look of, to paint up or light up, nothing more.

I get my gaming jollies elsewhere these days.

**GodDamUser**

I am thinking Skyhammer and such.. but then again they were not UM specific

**BrianDavion**

GodDamUser wrote:
I am thinking Skyhammer and such.. but then again they were not UM specific

and where aprt of the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists "decurions"

**TheCustomLime**

Well, since I collect Tau and Salamanders I really got nothing so far that catches my interest. But I presume that they will eventually release stuff for them so until then Gathering Storm gets a resounding "meh" from me.

**zerosignal**

Three big-box releases for the Gathering Storm {oh look, new big existential threat coming)

none of the new models in those boxes are the actual threat

they done goofed. geederps!

**CommanderRednaxela**

Not enough IG, too much SM, IMO.

**stewe128**

The rumor is after gathering storms that chaos will get their own triumphvirate which I hope has DP Morty, new Abaddon, and someone else. (Not too sure) If this happens it would be amazing, but the love is going to legion that's doing just fine aka DG. Atleast we'd be getting a DP right?

**Marmatag**

There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?