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as far as it has been ruled where I am playing and in all the tournaments I play it is allowed as it states that any character can be used in any formation or detachment as long as they share the same chapter tactics and it says that they can be used in accordance with the Space Marine Codex and in the Warhammer 40k rules. It says any Character can be used in the formations not any model.

Yeah, I put it kind of lousy in there, sorry about that. Sqauwky clarified my point. Librarius Conclave is indeed a formation that tells you exactly what you can have in there.

Then again if Nova accepts it then go for it. It's a no-brainer then really.

I'm unfamiliar with a lot of FW add-in rules so thanks for clarifying!

KnightScion wrote:
The biggest restriction is you can have a max of 3 detachments/Formations and only 1 Forgeworld Unit.

I don't think that they're doing the 1 forgeworld unit thing this year. Looks like you can bring all the forgeworld you want, but only 1 Superheavy/garg creature.

 Fueli wrote:
Yeah, I put it kind of lousy in there, sorry about that. Sqauwky clarified my point. Librarius Conclave is indeed a formation that tells you exactly what you can have in there.

Then again if Nova accepts it then go for it. It's a no-brainer then really.

Yes but FAQs (Gw and Fw) always trumps codex rules

Since there are apparently some dense people replying to this post:
The Librarius Conclave says you can take a certain number of LIBRARIANS. Not special characters, not HQ units: Librarians. It specifically says that one librarian may be substituted for Tigurius. There is no such exception made for any other special character. Therefore, you cannot take Severin Loth (a special character) in the librarius conclave.

The forgeworld FAQ allows you to take special characters/units/chapter tactice where normally allowed by formations; for instance a Gladius with Red Scorpions chapter tactics (which is actually a pretty durable option, FNP for all your tac squads!) or a Carchadon librarius conclave. It doesn't mean you can sub in special characters where they aren't allowed.

Ok to make everyone feel better I am Going to try this again. I am looking for help and Ideas for running the Barkstar. I wanted ot know if there were any other thoughts on this deathstar and how it should be run. The only advice I have gotten is running the following (which is a solid choice):

DA CAD w/
Azreal
Celestine
Chaplain on Bike
Scout Squad
Tact Squad

Tiggy Libby Conclave
Tigerious
4 Libby on Bike Level 2

Wolfkin
15 wolves X 4

This is a huge unit with a lot of board control. I can minimize Kill Points and can split off near the end of objective grabbing.

What I am looking for is help on tactics on running this list and any other options that might prove better or different.

Thanks again.

KnightScion wrote:
Ok to make everyone feel better I am Going to try this again. I am looking for help and Ideas for running the Barkstar. I wanted ot know if there were any other thoughts on this deathstar and how it should be run. The only advice I have gotten is running the following (which is a solid choice):

DA CAD w/
Azreal
Celestine
Chaplain on Bike
Scout Squad
Tact Squad

Tiggy Libby Conclave
Tigerious
4 Libby on Bike Level 2

Wolfkin
15 wolves X 4

This is a huge unit with a lot of board control. I can minimize Kill Points and can split off near the end of objective grabbing.

What I am looking for is help on tactics on running this list and any other options that might prove better or different.

Thanks again.

Dont change out Loth for Tiggy, NOVA Faq specifically allows Loth in a conclave. Loth is more survivable and is almost invincible if one of your libbys is also able to fish Tear of Veil (no restrictions to re-rollable 2++). You can position Celestine on one side and Loth on the other side to tank shots all day long, but with invis you don't even really need worry much about tanking.

With this deathstar you want to get into combat fast and hard, you need to properly position your deathstar so you can multi-charge as much as possible.

Also you would want to do some daemon summonings to hold back field objectives too.

Why a regular Chaplain when you can get the Interrogator Chaplain?

I did mean to say Interrogator chaplain with a Pfist as well. About Loth I only put in Libby to get rid of the rules argument here and move on with tactics.

What are the armies that will be a problem for this list?

renegades. psychic heavy daemon lists possibly. mobile eldar with the hellstorm WK

Renegades will most likely bunker up and with scouting and Azreal's +3 movement to run and charges I can get a second turn assault on multiple units and keep my star from getting shot at.

Daemons will be an issues if they go heavy summoning, but I do have the ability to take out most summoned units and do enough damage to cause instability checks.

Eldar are fast and make a hell of a death star, my plan is to spread the unit out to make it hard for jet bikes ot get away and take out all the troops and tie up the star. Wraithknights will be tough I will have to try for hammer hand to make them manageable.

KnightScion wrote:
Renegades will most likely bunker up and with scouting and Azreal's +3 movement to run and charges I can get a second turn assault on multiple units and keep my star from getting shot at.

Daemons will be an issues if they go heavy summoning, but I do have the ability to take out most summoned units and do enough damage to cause instability checks.

Eldar are fast and make a hell of a death star, my plan is to spread the unit out to make it hard for jet bikes ot get away and take out all the troops and tie up the star. Wraithknights will be tough I will have to try for hammer hand to make them manageable.

Wait what gives your army scout?

Renegades are not a issue, you can only snap shot at invis units so you don't have to worry about earth shaker or whatever.. Same with the death shroud WK, can't fire the template. To potentially beat a WK in CC, you will have to go with the furious charge WL trait, the Wolves has monster hunter, so you need to get like 60-70 attacks with prescience and hopefully hammer hand in every turn you charge. Or you can try to hit N run out and target other stuff.

Celestine has adman will and you have 11 base WCs to deny with a ML3 psyker, so you should be able to deny any potentially devastating powers. Against Screamer star or whatever with re-rollable 2++, you will have to fish for null zone and also have banishment.

Imperial knights will wreck you, a culexus assassin at a distance or screened can complicate your psychic buffs and summoning daemons can grind you to a standstill.

KnightScion wrote:
Renegades will most likely bunker up and with scouting and Azreal's +3 movement to run and charges I can get a second turn assault on multiple units and keep my star from getting shot at.

Daemons will be an issues if they go heavy summoning, but I do have the ability to take out most summoned units and do enough damage to cause instability checks.

Eldar are fast and make a hell of a death star, my plan is to spread the unit out to make it hard for jet bikes ot get away and take out all the troops and tie up the star. Wraithknights will be tough I will have to try for hammer hand to make them manageable.

Renegades can shoot into combat and most tournament nowadays comp invis to be BS 1 except ETC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The daemons will most likely have the Masque which turns your death star into a very slow train. which you will likely have trouble dealing with if everything is in 1 unit. The rest of the daemons would go after the rest of your army keeping the star neutered.

 rawne2510 wrote:

KnightScion wrote:
Renegades will most likely bunker up and with scouting and Azreal's +3 movement to run and charges I can get a second turn assault on multiple units and keep my star from getting shot at.

Daemons will be an issues if they go heavy summoning, but I do have the ability to take out most summoned units and do enough damage to cause instability checks.

Eldar are fast and make a hell of a death star, my plan is to spread the unit out to make it hard for jet bikes ot get away and take out all the troops and tie up the star. Wraithknights will be tough I will have to try for hammer hand to make them manageable.

Renegades can shoot into combat and most tournament nowadays comp invis to be BS 1 except ETC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The daemons will most likely have the Masque which turns your death star into a very slow train. which you will likely have trouble dealing with if everything is in 1 unit. The rest of the daemons would go after the rest of your army keeping the star neutered.

Did you read his original post? He is going to NOVA, I didn't recommend Loth for no reason....

The masque would be a issue when he is closer to the Daemons line. However most likely the masque will get her power off for only one turn before she gets shot to death.

In NOVA invis is not changed so renegades can not target my models with any templates. That saves a lot of mass wounds coming my way.

I am not to worried with Daemons. I know they can bog me down a bit, but with Hit and Run and good board control I can hit whatever threat I need to. It will be hard to get many powers off against my star. I can multi assault enough units that I should be able to do enough wounds to cause every unit to make massive instability rolls. That with null zone and banishment can really hurt a screamer star.

I know I will have major trouble with Knights and flying circus' lists. My lack of major shooting will make flyers hard to take down. As far as Knights I have to really try for Hammer hand and perhaps even Technomancy to find ways to strip hull points off. Celestine with Hammer hand can really do a number on a Knight as well as Power Axes with hammer hand makes them str 7 so I can glance the hell out of knights. Even the wolves with furious charge and hammer hand can throw enough attacks that glancing a Knight to death is not too difficult. Ofcourse that mean they will be saving all their dice to cancel out Hammer hand when I cast and I will have to throw more dice at it. Which means more chances for Perils. But it may be worth it.

Sqauwky wrote:
Yes but your forgetting that it specifies what you can take in a formation and this is an issue for all forgeworld units no where in a librarius conclave does it say you can take Loth its like saying I can take a relic sicaran or a typhon in an armoured task force I cant do that

This is correct. Libby conclave is a specific formation with specific requirements - you cant take anything in that formation but what the conclave specifies.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:

KnightScion wrote:
Renegades will most likely bunker up and with scouting and Azreal's +3 movement to run and charges I can get a second turn assault on multiple units and keep my star from getting shot at.

Daemons will be an issues if they go heavy summoning, but I do have the ability to take out most summoned units and do enough damage to cause instability checks.

Eldar are fast and make a hell of a death star, my plan is to spread the unit out to make it hard for jet bikes ot get away and take out all the troops and tie up the star. Wraithknights will be tough I will have to try for hammer hand to make them manageable.

Renegades can shoot into combat and most tournament nowadays comp invis to be BS 1 except ETC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The daemons will most likely have the Masque which turns your death star into a very slow train. which you will likely have trouble dealing with if everything is in 1 unit. The rest of the daemons would go after the rest of your army keeping the star neutered.

Did you read his original post? He is going to NOVA, I didn't recommend Loth for no reason....

The masque would be a issue when he is closer to the Daemons line. However most likely the masque will get her power off for only one turn before she gets shot to death.

Depending on what can see the masque obviously as she will be running back into cover or hiding behind LoS blocking stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also celestine can´t tank wounds while her geminae are alive. My understanding was that she automatically passes wounds off to them before she even gets to save.

Celestine is being ruled every which way for the saves. Its definitely a YMDC question. Even local TO's and local GT TO's having been ruling it as she takes the saves, fails the save, and then passes the unsaved / failed wound to her Gems. But I can see it being ruled both ways.

Masque is definitely a problem for a Barkstar, so much so, that if you don't have FW Artillery or TFC, you might want to pack it in Turn1. Without indirect fire or a way of shooting through terrain, the Masque will 100% destroy your barkstar with its D6+3, fleet run. *Destroy meaning incapicate and allow it to move 2D3" a turn* It only needs to see you and be within 6" during her movement, then it free to LOS and hide. Given that you almost always bring a CAD of DA and already have 3 sources, the FW Artillery is your only real option against her. That and it makes the Gladius match up a lot easier. Take a little bit of points out of the star and get 2-3 FW Artillery pieces in your list - IMO.

Its just celestines rules make a mockery of the destroyer wound allocation. It gets so many arguments going.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saythings wrote:
Celestine is being ruled every which way for the saves. Its definitely a YMDC question. Even local TO's and local GT TO's having been ruling it as she takes the saves, fails the save, and then passes the unsaved / failed wound to her Gems. But I can see it being ruled both ways.

Masque is definitely a problem for a Barkstar, so much so, that if you don't have FW Artillery or TFC, you might want to pack it in Turn1. Without indirect fire or a way of shooting through terrain, the Masque will 100% destroy your barkstar with its D6+3, fleet run. *Destroy meaning incapicate and allow it to move 2D3" a turn* It only needs to see you and be within 6" during her movement, then it free to LOS and hide. Given that you almost always bring a CAD of DA and already have 3 sources, the FW Artillery is your only real option against her. That and it makes the Gladius match up a lot easier. Take a little bit of points out of the star and get 2-3 FW Artillery pieces in your list - IMO.

Ignoring LoS is very effective against the Masque. On that point can tau with their SMS shoot her if they can´t see her to be targeted? My thinking they still need to see her to be able to shoot.

 rawne2510 wrote:
Its just celestines rules make a mockery of the destroyer wound allocation. It gets so many arguments going.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saythings wrote:
Celestine is being ruled every which way for the saves. Its definitely a YMDC question. Even local TO's and local GT TO's having been ruling it as she takes the saves, fails the save, and then passes the unsaved / failed wound to her Gems. But I can see it being ruled both ways.

Masque is definitely a problem for a Barkstar, so much so, that if you don't have FW Artillery or TFC, you might want to pack it in Turn1. Without indirect fire or a way of shooting through terrain, the Masque will 100% destroy your barkstar with its D6+3, fleet run. *Destroy meaning incapicate and allow it to move 2D3" a turn* It only needs to see you and be within 6" during her movement, then it free to LOS and hide. Given that you almost always bring a CAD of DA and already have 3 sources, the FW Artillery is your only real option against her. That and it makes the Gladius match up a lot easier. Take a little bit of points out of the star and get 2-3 FW Artillery pieces in your list - IMO.

Ignoring LoS is very effective against the Masque. On that point can tau with their SMS shoot her if they can´t see her to be targeted? My thinking they still need to see her to be able to shoot.

SMS rules are worded so you don't need LOS to fire them at their target. So - yes, SMS would be great against masques, but being a barkstar post, Tau doesn't fit. There are already 3 sources and points don't really allow 3 riptides or anything less reliable as a SMS platform. This is why I suggested FW Artillery as they are only 60 pts per. That's a few less dogs here or there or 1 less Libby from the conclave.

Tau SMS do not need LOS to shoot her.

ok cool so it just overwatch they need LoS. sorry for jump on a random question but the people in this thread know their stuff.

Alright played 4 games with the Barkstar List

DA CAD -
Azreal
Jumppack Int Chaplain W/Fist
Celestine
1 5 Man Tact Melta/Combi-Melta
1 5 Man Sniper Scout

1 Libby Conclave
Tiggy
4 Level 2 Libbys on Bike w/Axes

Wolfkin
4 X 15 Wolves

I Have Gone 4-0 with this list.
The foot print is amazing and I rarely gave up more then 3 Kill points. I have played : Necron Decurion, GSC, Tau Triple Riptide wing, and Deamon Screamer Star.

These lists are all prepping for a GT Event at 1850. The only thing I am looking to tweak or change is finding a way to get the Scout rule on the Barkstar. This would help greatly in Hammer and Anvil deployment.

The biggest issue I have found is Flying units. I have no real way to bring them down. SO I ignore them and focus on everything on the ground.

I figured out Deamons with multi assault and Deamonic Instability. The Masque is going ot be a challenge no matter what.

wouldn't 1 squad of Sisters of Silence in a Rhino shut this big squad down ?

Good that you mentioned that. In the case of SoS units They are a primary target. They have to be within 12 to 24 inches which is still within my range to charge quickly. They still begin with a 4++ and a 5+ FNP most of the time to survive a turn or two. Once in combat I can take out the Sisters with no issue. I am playing a game on Monday against 3 units of SoS. I also plan to drop pod next to them and hit them as early as possible. Possible take out the Rhino with melta so it is easier to deal with the unit on foot.

With the Meltas in Drop pod and Snipers shooting at them. I can hopefully get rid of a unit early in the game.

Came across an interesting one on the Weekend.
Azrael
Two DA troops in Drop Pods
Librarius Conclave
Wolfkin
Heralds of the Great Wolf, Rune Priest with Armour of Russ and Sanctic Daemonology.

All the times I watched her she charged Invisiwolves up the field, the Heralds and one Libby with Invisibility stayed behind the mutts to provide flexibility, the Troops dropped on objectives.
The one time she struggled was against IG with fliers - She killed a grand total of 400 points and the IG player took four objectives outright and shared the other two with her troops.

Unfortunately the format I am playing in is limited to 3 Detachments/Formations

KnightScion wrote:
Unfortunately the format I am playing in is limited to 3 Detachments/Formations

Three is nice and limiting.

Wolf Claw Strike formation with Great Pack or Ironwolves as the Core.
Heralds as the Command.
Wolfkin as the Auxiliary.
It does have some taxes/flexibility - your call - but it leaves you two formations and a couple of hundred points to work the Barkstar.