Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

If the weapon doesn't have a basic rend value, you use the rend value from your strength.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

Because based on your Strength, you will likely have a better Armour Save Mod then a set one.

A S4 Space Marine will be S8 with the Thunder Hammer and S8 is equal to a -5 armor save modifier. If an S3 Inquisitor had one he'd be S7 with a -4. A Power Fist has base -3 so the Strength of the user doesn't get taken into account.

the_scotsman wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

If the weapon doesn't have a basic rend value, you use the rend value from your strength.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So I am curious, why do Thunder Hammers and Power Axes not have a modifier vs Armor?

Because based on your Strength, you will likely have a better Armour Save Mod then a set one.

A S4 Space Marine will be S8 with the Thunder Hammer and S8 is equal to a -5 armor save modifier. If an S3 Inquisitor had one he'd be S7 with a -4. A Power Fist has base -3 so the Strength of the user doesn't get taken into account.

Oh ok, makes sense.

Any word on when pre-orders go up for Shadow War?

Manchu wrote:
Any word on when pre-orders go up for Shadow War?

This weekend I think.

Manchu wrote:
Any word on when pre-orders go up for Shadow War?

April 1st. The rules for the factions not in the rule book are also supposed to go up at that time as well. Nice to have a week to get factions put together before the game is released.

timd wrote:
After taking a close look at the big diorama, and assuming that GW oil barrels are 1" tall, I'm guessing that the stacked levels are 5" tall.

T

You're correct. There's a boxed off part of the battle report where it talks about a Guardsman falling of a platform after being shot at and takes a Str5 hit (a point of strength for every inch fallen). My WD showed up

It's a shame they didn't make this scenery more in line with the Sector Imperialis kits and made the height 6", could have led to much more cross compatibility across the ranges.

LordShaft.

Sorry , does anyone know where I can find the gsc and skitarii rules that were posted online?

In April White Dwarf, available on Friday/Saturday

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
Sorry , does anyone know where I can find the gsc and skitarii rules that were posted online?

Spanish linku http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/03/imagenes-white-dwarf-abril.html

Can't say I like the -2 ASM on the Chainsword. One of the most dramatic differences between 2nd and 3rd for anyone who was around for that transition was the notion that Marines got to actually take their 3+ saves. I remember being so shocked during my first 3rd Ed demo game at that. Marines in 2nd Ed never got to take a 3+ save. It was usually 4+ because -1 save mods were everywhere (even Lasguns had 'em). Chainswords were -1 as well... now they're -2? That seems too high.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Oh ok, makes sense.

Or it's riddled with typos, like the "Squid" armour.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Oh ok, makes sense.

Or it's riddled with typos, like the "Squid" armour.

Are you telling me you don't model your Orks in Squid armor?

Does anybody know how tall a grot is?

Stupid friend and his stupid gretchin...

I think they count as small targets.

 flakpanzer wrote:
I would really love to see some vehicle rules in a future White Dwarf for SW: Armageddon. Just for the ability to create some fun scenarios using what is in some of the Start Collecting boxes.

Trust me, you don't. If I recall the reason why the rules work is that you have to buy the crew to drive the vehicles, and when you shoot at vheciles you have a crazy charts to roll on, and each vehcile has it's own charts.

Like. 1st you roll were the shot hits, then you got to roll if it pens, then you have to roll what the shot did on a chart based on the location. You got all this crazy stuff were you could end up killing the driver for example, so someone eals needs to jump into the driver seat for example. OR the vehicle could become disabled, and you have all the crew jump out.

I never played 2nd ed, but I did play necromunda. People refused to use the necromunda vehicle rules because of how much they could bog the game down, and was also the reason not alot of people wanted to play Gorka Morka. Out group loved the Ash waste senrios, but would refuse to use the vheciles and gangs.

Sounds like 2nd Ed vehicle rules to me. Those were great.

They were OK if you had one vehicle. If you had a bike squad, they were horrible.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sounds like 2nd Ed vehicle rules to me. Those were great.

Well Necro vehicle rules were just imported from Gorkamorka

If you want to check out the Necromunda rules, a quick google will bring up the Ash Wastes supplement.
Wasn't sure if it was against forum rules to directly link to docs that GW used to give away for free but no longer do.
They use more generic damage charts based on vehicle type.

Otherwise, Yaktribegaming.org has all the rules available (original, living and community)

Yaktribe.org is the link. Great site.

You can also internet archive the old specialist games website for all the fanatic magazine articles. This is the Ash Waste rules version you want (FO93) as it's been updated with slightly better rules, including scimmer bikes.
Looking at the vehicle rules you would only need to modify a few things to port to Shadow War, allow bikes to take fixed weapons, add turret/pintle mounts and simplify the permanent vehicle damage table to remove captured vehicles.
Maybe add some kind of speed boost component for Elder Skimmers.

We streamlined the rules and used 2d edition 40K back in the day when we started having too many issues with GW's Gorkamorka set. That little issue on using the military vehicles, as opposed to scratch scrap ones. Data cards were easy peasy. Just add skill sets. and combat took care of itself.

Short of large vehicle squadrons, the vehicle rules in 2nd were fine. I'm not entirely sure how lazy one has to be to flip a card over and read off a chart.

2nd ed. rarely featured large vehicle squadrons...and even then the bike chart was super simple (though you hoped it hit your rider if you were a Space Marine as his power armour was normally better than the bike's armour).

 Elbows wrote:
A Chainsword in 2nd ed. had a -1 armour save modifier. The most powerful armour save modifier was -6, which still gave Terminators a chance of ignoring it (effectively representing an invulnerable save). 9+ on 2D6 was tough but it happened.

Terminators did not have invulnerable saves in addition to their 3+(2D6) save unless they were characters with a field purchased (and you roll fields before armour, because that's what an attack would hit first).

Lasguns did have a -1 save modifier etc. Also the ranges are mostly whacky on all of the weapons in the SWA stuff listed. So, while the rules look very similar to Necromunda, a lot has changed (and I suspect these weapon profiles will be very indicative of 8th ed.) Overall, pretty disappointed with the dumbing down of another reborn product. it was quite expected, but it's sad that they didn't bother pushing deeper into the mechanics.

I remember that most weapons that had a high minus save modifier also did more damage per succesfull hit, D3, D6, D8 or 2D6 damage, that's why even a terminator didn't survive a successful hit from a lascannon in 2nd Ed.
But my memory is blurry on that.

Some more info for kill teams from Reddit:
Space Marines: Uses Scouts as Core, SpecOps are; Space Marine, Deathwatch marine, Apothecary and Terminator.
No Tactical troops as core. Chapter sub-factions are there, works basically the same as original gangs in Necromunda with skill table variations. Salamanders is one of the sub-factions.
Chaos: CSM for leader and core. Can also take Cultists as troopers only. SpecOps: Terminator, Raptor and Spawn.
Eldar: Dire Avengers for core, Gaurdians as Troopers only. SpecOps: Autarch, Wraithblade, Wraithguard.
Tau: Pathfinders and drones. SpecOps: Fire Blade, Stealthsuit, Ethereal.
No Inquisition or Demons on initial release :(

Autarch??? That seems a bit high and mighty for a low level skirmish.

And what about Railgun Drones? They seem perfect for... oh wait not in plastic.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They were OK if you had one vehicle. If you had a bike squad, they were horrible.

By "horrible" you mean "awesome" right? Every time I had a bike or Jetbike squadron they did more damage to themselves. Take out one and it will hit another, which hits another until the whole unit falls over itself and explodes.

Not useful, but fething funny.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
They were OK if you had one vehicle. If you had a bike squad, they were horrible.

By "horrible" you mean "awesome" right? Every time I had a bike or Jetbike squadron they did more damage to themselves. Take out one and it will hit another, which hits another until the whole unit falls over itself and explodes.

Not useful, but fething funny.

Towards the end of 2nd edition, we mostly used bike squads as semi-guided missiles: accelerate from combat speed to fast, point at the enemy, maybe make a skid turn to finalise the alignment. Then have the whole squad bail out; sure there was a slight chance of the bikes going off course after that, but the guaranteed penetrating hits from the crash would almost certainly trigger the "explosion" result on the table and who cares about aim when you're throwing 6" radius blasts at an Ork horde? There was even a small chance some of the riders would survive and you'd then have a squad on the enemy's fron door, that wold need to be dealt with first.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

By "horrible" you mean "awesome" right? Every time I had a bike or Jetbike squadron they did more damage to themselves. Take out one and it will hit another, which hits another until the whole unit falls over itself and explodes.

Not useful, but fething funny.

I use to love hitting rhinos in their tracks, and having them flip on to entire squads =D