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Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd



New England

 Altruizine wrote:
Zachectomy wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:
 Dravis wrote:
Link to step for before and after mission:
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1491111171788.jpg

Seems weird that there's a 100 point cap on the recruits you can add to your kill team after a mission.

So a Tyranid Warrior team will never be able to grow beyond it's starting size, and never be able to replace a dead fighter?

Also not thrilled about unused equipment disappearing instead of going to a persistent armory.


Not to mention the Ravener special operative seems to be one wound?

(Btw is your screen name a reference to the stanislaw lem short story?)

It is! And you're the first person in 5+ years of internetting under this name to recognize it.

I also overlooked something in the Recruit rule; you can trade a Promethium Cache for another 100 points of margin. Still means Warriors can never hire a gun-beast mid-campaign, so I guess you'd need to decide beforehand whether you want to go shooty or not.


He's my favorite author, and the cyberiad is my favorite book.

But yeah, I think that's a minor disadvantage overall compared to the strengths of warriors.
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

Can't points left over be saved up?

Also, from the community page, the specialists for the three factions from the boxed set, if this hasn't been posted before:

ADEPTUS ASTARTES
Apothecary
Veteran
Space Marine Terminator
Deathwatch Veteran

ASTRA MILITARUM
Ogryns
Tempestus Scion
Officio Prefectus Commissar
Tech-priest Enginseer

ORKS
Ork Flash Git
Ork Painboy
Ork Mek
Ork Gretchin



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Zachectomy wrote:


He's my favorite author, and the cyberiad is my favorite book.

He's my favourite sci-fi author, too. But Solaris is his best, for me.

 BrookM wrote:
Can't points left over be saved up?

Nope, unspent points are lost.

It could lead to some odd Kill Team building/growth.

For example, say you complete a game and want to hire a 90 point specialist with a 75 point weapon and a 10 point item. The only way to do it is so trade a cache for 200 total points worth of expenditure. However, your desired loadout only costs 175, and any points you don't spend will be lost, so it's going to be prudent to load the new guy up with a bunch of unnecessary items just so you can efficiently spend to your cap. You also can't trade items to or from a recruit before its first game, so the noob is going into battle decked-out. I guess after that first game you could move stuff around and put items on your more experienced characters, but it's still a little weird.

On the other hand, having to spend all your points is a bit of a soft-deterrent to min-maxing, so that's neat. Kill Teams will probably rack up some non-optimized gears/builds just because the extra points were there to be spent.
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.

Of course they can. That's exactly why communicating effectively with their customer base is so important. They're getting better at that, but they're working against the fact that they've spent a large chunk of the last two decades conditioning their customers to expect the worst.


 
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






Looks like they're scrambling to make more, I'd expect an announcement in a few days at most.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 18:50:54


 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

Same reply as before it was pulled.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in se
Executing Exarch






 BrookM wrote:
Same reply as before it was pulled.


Yesterday i saw them answer a lot of posts with "don't worry, this is sold out but we've decided to release the rule book digitally, but it will take a few weeks to get ready" didn't see anything that implied a reprint. did they say that before?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 18:56:22


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

 insaniak wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:

GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.

Of course they can. That's exactly why communicating effectively with their customer base is so important. They're getting better at that, but they're working against the fact that they've spent a large chunk of the last two decades conditioning their customers to expect the worst.



Why can't they be held responsible? They aren't some amateur garage based company. Did you know there are people in the world that are PROFESSIONAL communicators and marketing experts?? Those people are responsible for making sure your message is clear.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in ca
Zealous Sin-Eater




Montreal

 Azreal13 wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:
 RexHavoc wrote:
People are already asking in the comments is there any point in buying as they might not be able to meet demand. Of course, this is the made to order thing, so they will make enough to supply, but the damage is done and people are questioning their ability to do what they offer.


GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.


No, just for utterly failing to anticipate demand for a product.

Again.


And people complain because they haven't addressed the issue over a weekend. This is beyond slowed.

FFG released SW: Destiny and failed to anticipate the hype. Despite producing more SW: Destiny launch items than any other of their launch. They addressed the issue in a statement within 2 weeks. The sky didn't fall, FFG is still in business, and SW: Destiny alone is probably going to make them more money this year than GW will make with all of it's banner.

Perspective and stuff.

[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Yes and Fantasy Flight is always terrible at new releases too. Not exactly the best comparison.

Are you kidding that SW Destiny problems were solved? Boosters still go for 300$ a box because you can't get any of it.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Precisely. Citing somebody else getting something equally wrong isn't exactly a watertight counterargument.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

And people complain because they haven't addressed the issue over a weekend. This is beyond slowed.

The choice to release over the weekend was theirs. If they're just going to hit the 'go' button and all head off home for the weekend, they can hardly be surprised when that causes issues...



FFG released SW: Destiny and failed to anticipate the hype. Despite producing more SW: Destiny launch items than any other of their launch. They addressed the issue in a statement within 2 weeks. The sky didn't fall, FFG is still in business, and SW: Destiny alone is probably going to make them more money this year than GW will make with all of it's banner.

Perspective and stuff.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

 
   
Made in ca
Zealous Sin-Eater




Montreal

 Kirasu wrote:
Yes and Fantasy Flight is always terrible at new releases too. Not exactly the best comparison.

Are you kidding that SW Destiny problems were solved? Boosters still go for 300$ a box because you can't get any of it.


You should try yourself harder at reading. I never claimed any supply problems was solved, simply that it was addressed, and in which timeframe they did. Despite it's launch problems, SW: Destiny is an absolute success story.

And you need to find better supply. I have 4 booster boxes worth of cards at home and not a single one of them was bought over the advertised price. (BTW just coming back from a pre-release event, so I got Chewie, the Outer Rim Smuggler and Overkill. My friend got Palpatine!).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 insaniak wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:

And people complain because they haven't addressed the issue over a weekend. This is beyond slowed.

The choice to release over the weekend was theirs. If they're just going to hit the 'go' button and all head off home for the weekend, they can hardly be surprised when that causes issues...



FFG released SW: Destiny and failed to anticipate the hype. Despite producing more SW: Destiny launch items than any other of their launch. They addressed the issue in a statement within 2 weeks. The sky didn't fall, FFG is still in business, and SW: Destiny alone is probably going to make them more money this year than GW will make with all of it's banner.

Perspective and stuff.

I'm not sure what your point is here.


The point is to provide perspective over the response time of a company deciding to change their supply chain order and sales slots. It's not that hard to understand.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/02 19:23:02


[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Kovnik Obama wrote:


The point is to provide perspective over the response time of a company deciding to change their supply chain order and sales slots. It's not that hard to understand.

'Other companies are worse, so this is fine' isn't really an argument that tends to go very far.

 
   
Made in ca
Zealous Sin-Eater




Montreal

 insaniak wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:


The point is to provide perspective over the response time of a company deciding to change their supply chain order and sales slots. It's not that hard to understand.

'Other companies are worse, so this is fine' isn't really an argument that tends to go very far.


But 'Other companies have done worse, and given time, have addressed the problems, then built unto a product that will rack them in a buttload of money without destroying the public's perception' is a valid point.

This isn't a zero day fatal flaw issue. Those that have bought Shadow War will be able to play it. GW will realize that market research is great to determine demand. Given a few days, we will be provided a timeframe and availability expectations.

And to respond to an earlier point, the idea that GW deserves blame for this because they hyped this game... A two weeks notice via a trade show post isn't hype. The only hype was within the bubble, because every fan has wanted a faction-wide Necromunda since forever.

[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Sometimes I swear GW customers think like people in 40K.

Open our mind to other games on the market? DENY THE XENOS!

Our game change? PURGE THE MUTANT!

Relatively minor slip up with underestimating demand for a re-release of 20 year old models and rules bundled with some new terrain? Failing the God Emperor demands summary pink slips to the back of the head for everyone involved!
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Relatively minor slip up with underestimating demand for a re-release of 20 year old models and rules bundled with some new terrain? Failing the God Emperor demands summary pink slips to the back of the head for everyone involved!


Neither the rules nor the models are 20 years old

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

But 'Other companies have done worse, and given time, have addressed the problems, then built unto a product that will rack them in a buttload of money without destroying the public's perception' is a valid point.

It might have been, if you had chosen an example that wasn't from a company widely regarded as being really rubbish at delivering new product on time...

The real problem here is that GW have released a new product for which their was considerable costumer anticipation, and have failed to deliver for many of those costumers. The longer GW leave it before offering a solid solution to those customers, the more of them will simply give up and spend their money elsewhere. It's in GW's best interests to act quickly on this, while potential customers still have their wallets out.

 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

 Azreal13 wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:
 RexHavoc wrote:
People are already asking in the comments is there any point in buying as they might not be able to meet demand. Of course, this is the made to order thing, so they will make enough to supply, but the damage is done and people are questioning their ability to do what they offer.


GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.


No, just for utterly failing to anticipate demand for a product.

Again.


Business 101 bro. You make an initial run and PURPOSELY undershoot the demand. This creates artificial demand and gets people excited to play, plus you're guaranteed to make maximum profit on your first run. Based on timing, you can stipulate how big your second run should be. But this is a big set. Once the market is saturated, the extra boxes will likely sit around for a while. I'm ok with GW making better business decisions going forward. If that inconveniences me or some other people for a few weeks or so, so be it. There are other things I can do with my life.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Steelcity

Except that GW makes a lot of their money on the impulse buys of new product. Next week there will be a new expensive item to buy which people will use their money on.

That is after all the entire purpose of weekly releases.

Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,  
   
Made in ie
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva






But GW have addressed it. They told people early on saturday that was it, and they would look at getting digital rulebooks out at a later date.

No mention of looking into it the following working week, or working something else out.

That is their time frame right there.

Trouble is, is doesnt solve the problems, as many people that missed out dont want a digital rule book, and no one wants to buy the boxset from the ebay bandits- which from GWs response many people feel they are being forced in to doing.

Other companies have done worse, sure. But companies that screw up, dont tend to much repeat business, and people will doubt what ever they release next.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:


And to respond to an earlier point, the idea that GW deserves blame for this because they hyped this game... A two weeks notice via a trade show post isn't hype. The only hype was within the bubble, because every fan has wanted a faction-wide Necromunda since forever.


So it was hyped. Just because its not the same amount of time that mantic, or a kickstarter or some other less known company will show off a product, or a time frame that you agree on, its still hype. GW play safe, granted, but look at the alternative. Show off your game/products months in advance and then dont deliver a superb product- no one is shopping with you again!




   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

Zachectomy wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:
 Dravis wrote:
Link to step for before and after mission:
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1491111171788.jpg

Seems weird that there's a 100 point cap on the recruits you can add to your kill team after a mission.

So a Tyranid Warrior team will never be able to grow beyond it's starting size, and never be able to replace a dead fighter?

Also not thrilled about unused equipment disappearing instead of going to a persistent armory.


Not to mention the Ravener special operative seems to be one wound?

(Btw is your screen name a reference to the stanislaw lem short story?)


You can use your promethium to give yourself an extra 100 points to spend, but your promethium are also your victory points, so if you use them to upgrade your kill team, it'll take you longer to get to however many victory points you're playing for in your campaign (15 is the stock option). Pros and cons to both spending and not spending, especially since promethium are also what you use to recruit special operatives, so if you only have 1, you have to decide what you want to do most out of all 3 options.

The Ravener is one wound yes but it really is almost a guaranteed turn 1 charge. Only way you don't get it is if your opponent has first turn and runs away or shoots and kills you. I do think the zoanthrope is better overall but your opponent gets an extra promethium if the zoan dies during the battle. The prime is definitely the best operative to recruit, but if it dies your opponent gets d3 extra promethium. Pros and cons.

And with tyranids in particular, unused equipment isn't really a thing. We have plenty of arms. You might need to drop a pair of scything talons at worst.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






while it is nice they say they are now looking into it, just for the benefit of people taking digs at the customers.

Yesterday when the game was released GW themselves through there website, stores and sales reps confirmed a limited release of a one and done product.

GW then confirmed this again and stated there were no plans to release the rules separately.

They then came back to say that due to demand they were going to release the rules as an ebook soon.

They then waited until it sold out in every other territory just as quickly and deleted the previous posts and put up the new one saying it was being looked into.

I would download the add on rules quickly, as they do look like they were created and formated to be part of the original rulebook and then left out to reduce page size and cost. I would hazard a guess they were only free because they were not expecting it's popularity and might disapear.

I believe there is going to be a very uncomfortable meeting for someone tomorrow, they lost £100000 due to the price cut, they gave away additonal rules that could have been sold and they sold through the entire worlds supply in a combined amount of less than an hour.

All these point to a release they had no confidence and if they feel that way maybe they do believe people only want 40k to be as simple as AoS.

My main take away on this is GW may have changed a little but there still piss poor at the whole business thing.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 luke1705 wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:
 RexHavoc wrote:
People are already asking in the comments is there any point in buying as they might not be able to meet demand. Of course, this is the made to order thing, so they will make enough to supply, but the damage is done and people are questioning their ability to do what they offer.


GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.


No, just for utterly failing to anticipate demand for a product.

Again.


Business 101 bro. You make an initial run and PURPOSELY undershoot the demand. This creates artificial demand and gets people excited to play, plus you're guaranteed to make maximum profit on your first run. Based on timing, you can stipulate how big your second run should be. But this is a big set. Once the market is saturated, the extra boxes will likely sit around for a while. I'm ok with GW making better business decisions going forward. If that inconveniences me or some other people for a few weeks or so, so be it. There are other things I can do with my life.


If you think that's business 101, I suggest you change schools.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 insaniak wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:

And people complain because they haven't addressed the issue over a weekend. This is beyond slowed.

The choice to release over the weekend was theirs. If they're just going to hit the 'go' button and all head off home for the weekend, they can hardly be surprised when that causes issues...



FFG released SW: Destiny and failed to anticipate the hype. Despite producing more SW: Destiny launch items than any other of their launch. They addressed the issue in a statement within 2 weeks. The sky didn't fall, FFG is still in business, and SW: Destiny alone is probably going to make them more money this year than GW will make with all of it's banner.

Perspective and stuff.

I'm not sure what your point is here.
its a preorder NOT release date I am sure we will hear the final news before it's release... turn off my chemical romance and put the razor away. We will hear more soon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 20:11:45


 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Rampton, UK

 Azreal13 wrote:


If you think that's business 101, I suggest you change schools.


I was thinking the same, it is hardly good business to upset a massive chunk of your customer base, just to maximise profit from a relatively small run of a game.
You will create the very opposite of artificial demand, when there is already such a massive demand and you let lots of them down.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 19:54:23


 
   
Made in ie
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva






[quote=SeanDrake 720498 9286199 null

I believe there is going to be a very uncomfortable meeting for someone tomorrow, they lost £100000 due to the price cut, they gave away additional rules that could have been sold and they sold through the entire worlds supply in a combined amount of less than an hour.



GW posted on facebook that it wasn't a mistake, rather the price in white dwarf was an error/misprint.

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Kovnik Obama wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
 Kovnik Obama wrote:
 RexHavoc wrote:
People are already asking in the comments is there any point in buying as they might not be able to meet demand. Of course, this is the made to order thing, so they will make enough to supply, but the damage is done and people are questioning their ability to do what they offer.


GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.


No, just for utterly failing to anticipate demand for a product.

Again.


And people complain because they haven't addressed the issue over a weekend. This is beyond slowed.

FFG released SW: Destiny and failed to anticipate the hype. Despite producing more SW: Destiny launch items than any other of their launch. They addressed the issue in a statement within 2 weeks. The sky didn't fall, FFG is still in business, and SW: Destiny alone is probably going to make them more money this year than GW will make with all of it's banner.

Perspective and stuff.



Lol. great logic there my friend

Nobody is saying GW will go bankrupt because of this, only that it is a terrible business move

lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
Made in cy
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






The biggest repeating complaint I'm reading here is "ZOMG GW marketing can't predict the future, terrible business, sad!!!". For those people I have some great news; there's an awful lot of money to be made delivering accurate business sales forecasting. It's a tough enough area to do reliably in a B2B manufacturing / industry sector, let alone a B2C creative market. Everyone posting how easy it is to forecast manufacturing requirements several months out should really start consulting work asap, because you can literally make millions.

SeanDrake wrote:
Yesterday when the game was released GW themselves through there website, stores and sales reps confirmed a limited release of a one and done product.

Citation needed.

GW have historically preferred the phrasing "while stocks last" for limited run releases because it's very flexible in terms of EU sales law. They can do a limited production run for something there may not be enough demand for but still imply limited stock. Then, if demand is sufficient, more can be ordered. This is the same "while stocks last" phrasing used for Dreadfleet, which didn't sell well enough to justify a second run. Also the same phrasing used for Space Hulk, which sold out multiple production runs.

Personally I've only ever known GW publish something with finite availability on rare occasions like games day events, etc. If you have any official evidence to the contrary for SWA, I'd really love to see it.
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest



UK

I don't see any Plasma Obliterators on the shelves anywhere?

 
   
 
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