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2017/04/02 20:33:50
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Kirasu wrote: Except that GW makes a lot of their money on the impulse buys of new product. Next week there will be a new expensive item to buy which people will use their money on.
That is after all the entire purpose of weekly releases.
yep. Funny how someone says business 101 in his post and say something that makes no sense business wise
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2017/04/02 20:35:00
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
xttz wrote: The biggest repeating complaint I'm reading here is "ZOMG GW marketing can't predict the future, terrible business, sad!!!". For those people I have some great news; there's an awful lot of money to be made delivering accurate business sales forecasting. It's a tough enough area to do reliably in a B2B manufacturing / industry sector, let alone a B2C creative market. Everyone posting how easy it is to forecast manufacturing requirements several months out should really start consulting work asap, because you can literally make millions.
SeanDrake wrote: Yesterday when the game was released GW themselves through there website, stores and sales reps confirmed a limited release of a one and done product.
Citation needed.
GW have historically preferred the phrasing "while stocks last" for limited run releases because it's very flexible in terms of EU sales law. They can do a limited production run for something there may not be enough demand for but still imply limited stock. Then, if demand is sufficient, more can be ordered. This is the same "while stocks last" phrasing used for Dreadfleet, which didn't sell well enough to justify a second run. Also the same phrasing used for Space Hulk, which sold out multiple production runs.
Personally I've only ever known GW publish something with finite availability on rare occasions like games day events, etc. If you have any official evidence to the contrary for SWA, I'd really love to see it.
As you said, there is numerous companies that offer these services, and it is actually possible to also hire employees that are good at this stuff. Which is why it make GW decision to do no Market Research (theyr words, not mine) absolutely indefensible. Having a product that sold out in about 5 minutes and is not supposed to get another print (things might have changed) is a major fragup. Weird that some are so ensnared by GW that they are not even willing to admit this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 20:44:45
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2017/04/02 20:48:17
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Kovnik Obama wrote: FFG released SW: Destiny and failed to anticipate the hype. Despite producing more SW: Destiny launch items than any other of their launch.
Did they advertise SW: Destiny heavily at a at a trade show, following that up by posts on their community page, all before releasing an item that no one thought was limited as limited?
luke1705 wrote: You make an initial run and PURPOSELY undershoot the demand. This creates artificial demand and gets people excited to play, plus you're guaranteed to make maximum profit on your first run. Based on timing, you can stipulate how big your second run should be. But this is a big set. Once the market is saturated, the extra boxes will likely sit around for a while. I'm ok with GW making better business decisions going forward. If that inconveniences me or some other people for a few weeks or so, so be it. There are other things I can do with my life.
The biggest flaw with the above is that this isn't the first run. This is the only run. Until GW comes out and says "We're making more!", then this is it, because it is listed as a while stocks last/limited run.
Kanluwen wrote: Wasn't a product they produced in house. The Wall of Martyrs line that the Plasma Obliterators go with were all produced in China.
As has been already said, Space Hulk did a 2nd print run too which was 2 years later. The problem is still that GW makes its money off impulse buys, so not having product now will make a 2nd print run much less profitable.
Don't be so upset at the players, GW is the one losing money off failed forecasts.
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500,
2017/04/02 21:14:54
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
I find the extra rules on some of these teams questionable...
Grey Knight are limited to 3-5 per team and cannot ever recruit anyone else. That'd be fine, if it actually WAS possible to get to 5 man.
Justicar costs at least 275pts (the Warding Stave being the cheapest H2H weapon available)
A Grey Knight costs at least 200pts (same here)
Minimum for 5 woudl therefore be 1075.
Unless the specalists are to be included in that 5-man max? Besides, are they free? With no access to the rules, it's hard to figure that all out... /sigh
2017/04/02 21:18:49
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Even though it's massively interesting to read how terrible it is that they got their projections wrong over and over, a slight change of subject...
How great is it that this is demonstrating to them that the interest in stuff like this is much greater than they thought?! Games of this size are what I will play, I have zero interest in a 40k scale game no matter how good the rules are - but this I can actually paint enough for and play it
I really hope it obligates them to plan for lots more in this vein!
2017/04/02 21:23:27
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
The campaign rules are really disapointing. I won't even comment on the injury table, since it's absurd beyond reason, but why couldn't they just gave money instead of these stupid rearm or recruit rules? These are limiting the possible actions for no good reasons, and are creating all kind of problems for certain factions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 21:26:42
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2017/04/02 21:32:32
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Specialists appear to be bought during a campaign , you apparently earn promethium which is usable to get specialists, so a balancing act between your total in a campaign and using a specialist.
I assume that for one off games you could always play points plus X specialists.
I think it's hard to see why grey knights are even in this when daemons aren't.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the terrain , just hoping I actually get the boxes I've preordered........
2017/04/02 21:35:58
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
Eh, I'm in a weird place with this release. I did preorder a copy at an independent store Saturday, a few hours before the sold out kerfuffle started. No telling if I'll actually get it, and I'll be okay with it if I don't. I wanted it enough to preorder, but haven't been playing much lately anyway, so I'll save $110 bucks if they can't fill the order. Life will go on....
2017/04/02 21:36:07
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
streetsamurai wrote: The campaign rules are really disapointing. I won't even comment on the injury table, since it's absurd beyond reason, but why couldn't they just gave money instead of these stupid rearm or recruit rules? These are limiting the possible actions for no good reasons, and are creating all kind of problems for certain factions.
Because they are making it simple. It's based on Necromunda, if you are interested in it as anything like a balanced affair then prepare to house rule.
Use the old tables for injuries, allow money to be carried over
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 21:37:28
2017/04/02 21:37:27
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
TwilightSparkles wrote: Specialists appear to be bought during a campaign , you apparently earn promethium which is usable to get specialists, so a balancing act between your total in a campaign and using a specialist.
I assume that for one off games you could always play points plus X specialists.
I think it's hard to see why grey knights are even in this when daemons aren't.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the terrain , just hoping I actually get the boxes I've preordered........
Grey Knights were famously on Armageddon (*cough* genocide *cough*). But they were only there because of the daemons...
Daemons aren't customisable and usually come in hordes. Not so good for a skirmish game.
2017/04/02 21:41:37
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
streetsamurai wrote: The campaign rules are really disapointing. I won't even comment on the injury table, since it's absurd beyond reason, but why couldn't they just gave money instead of these stupid rearm or recruit rules? These are limiting the possible actions for no good reasons, and are creating all kind of problems for certain factions.
Because they are making it simple. It's based on Necromunda, if you are interested in it as anything like a balanced affair then prepare to house rule.
Use the old tables for injuries, allow money to be carried over
This Is what I will do. But it's still mind boggling that GW seems to think that their customers are too stupid to keep track of such simple things
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/02 21:42:16
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
2017/04/02 21:47:51
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
TwilightSparkles wrote: Specialists appear to be bought during a campaign , you apparently earn promethium which is usable to get specialists, so a balancing act between your total in a campaign and using a specialist.
I assume that for one off games you could always play points plus X specialists.
I think it's hard to see why grey knights are even in this when daemons aren't.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the terrain , just hoping I actually get the boxes I've preordered........
Promethium Caches are used for Specialist Operatives, not "Specialists".
There's a difference. Specialists are things like the Gunners, while Specialist Operatives are things like the Grey Knight Terminators.
2017/04/02 21:48:50
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
RexHavoc wrote: People are already asking in the comments is there any point in buying as they might not be able to meet demand. Of course, this is the made to order thing, so they will make enough to supply, but the damage is done and people are questioning their ability to do what they offer.
GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.
No, just for utterly failing to anticipate demand for a product.
Again.
Business 101 bro. You make an initial run and PURPOSELY undershoot the demand. This creates artificial demand and gets people excited to play, plus you're guaranteed to make maximum profit on your first run. Based on timing, you can stipulate how big your second run should be. But this is a big set. Once the market is saturated, the extra boxes will likely sit around for a while. I'm ok with GW making better business decisions going forward. If that inconveniences me or some other people for a few weeks or so, so be it. There are other things I can do with my life.
If you think that's business 101, I suggest you change schools.
Nintendo does literally the same thing. It still pisses people off but it does create a weird demand for stuff.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/04/02 21:49:48
Subject: Re:Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
RexHavoc wrote: People are already asking in the comments is there any point in buying as they might not be able to meet demand. Of course, this is the made to order thing, so they will make enough to supply, but the damage is done and people are questioning their ability to do what they offer.
GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.
No, just for utterly failing to anticipate demand for a product.
Again.
Business 101 bro. You make an initial run and PURPOSELY undershoot the demand. This creates artificial demand and gets people excited to play, plus you're guaranteed to make maximum profit on your first run. Based on timing, you can stipulate how big your second run should be. But this is a big set. Once the market is saturated, the extra boxes will likely sit around for a while. I'm ok with GW making better business decisions going forward. If that inconveniences me or some other people for a few weeks or so, so be it. There are other things I can do with my life.
If you think that's business 101, I suggest you change schools.
Nintendo does literally the same thing. It still pisses people off but it does create a weird demand for stuff.
Given Nintendo haven't had the best financial track record over recent years, and has had one or two lemons, it is entirely possible that a conservative initial run was a financial necessity, not some sort of bass ackwards marketing ploy.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
JustaerinAtTheWall wrote: Do you guys possibly think there will be a separate release option with just the rules? Potentially a downloadable PDF?
Yesterday during the initial sell-out, it was suggested by some of the Facebook team that the rules would be digitally released in a few weeks as a paid for bit--but that post has since vanished.
2017/04/02 22:12:11
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
streetsamurai wrote: The campaign rules are really disapointing. I won't even comment on the injury table, since it's absurd beyond reason, but why couldn't they just gave money instead of these stupid rearm or recruit rules? These are limiting the possible actions for no good reasons, and are creating all kind of problems for certain factions.
Because they are making it simple. It's based on Necromunda, if you are interested in it as anything like a balanced affair then prepare to house rule.
Use the old tables for injuries, allow money to be carried over
This Is what I will do. But it's still mind boggling that GW seems to think that their customers are too stupid to keep track of such simple things
I'm not sure it's about being stupid.
It makes the game much easier to keep at some semblance of two gangs being able to play each other after a few games
It's going to be the first thing a new player can play, learning the rules and having a basic system is good.
2017/04/02 22:29:34
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
RexHavoc wrote: People are already asking in the comments is there any point in buying as they might not be able to meet demand. Of course, this is the made to order thing, so they will make enough to supply, but the damage is done and people are questioning their ability to do what they offer.
GW can't be held responsible for the portion of their customer base that cannot understand basic information, or assumes the worst possible outcome from every situation.
No, just for utterly failing to anticipate demand for a product.
Again.
Business 101 bro. You make an initial run and PURPOSELY undershoot the demand. This creates artificial demand and gets people excited to play, plus you're guaranteed to make maximum profit on your first run. Based on timing, you can stipulate how big your second run should be. But this is a big set. Once the market is saturated, the extra boxes will likely sit around for a while. I'm ok with GW making better business decisions going forward. If that inconveniences me or some other people for a few weeks or so, so be it. There are other things I can do with my life.
If you think that's business 101, I suggest you change schools.
Nintendo does literally the same thing. It still pisses people off but it does create a weird demand for stuff.
Given Nintendo haven't had the best financial track record over recent years, and has had one or two lemons, it is entirely possible that a conservative initial run was a financial necessity, not some sort of bass ackwards marketing ploy.
Not only that but once again Nintendo's releases weren't planned to be limited to just 1 run.
You can't create demand for a product by doing a small initial run if you only ever planned to make ONE run at all.
2017/04/02 23:06:26
Subject: Re:Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
You can't create demand for a product by doing a small initial run if you only ever planned to make ONE run at all.
No, you can't... But you can potentially create a perception of value through scarcity of your product overall.
As in, if every product you release sells out within minutes, then you (hopefully) build consumer perception of a company that has a product that is incredibly in-demand, and so people will (again, hopefully) flock to subsequent releases, on the assumption that they will be similarly in-demand and therefore worth buying.
It's an idea that would have fit well with Kirby-era GW, under that belief of his that GW's customers were mindless sheep who would race each other to buy whatever GW released because ooh! Shiny!...
The danger, of course, is that you have to balance the sales and market gains you achieve that way against the crankiness of potential customers who consistently miss out on the things they want. Brand loyalty only carries you so far.
To be clear, I don't think that's what was going on here... I suspect it really was just a case of them releasing what was intended to be a one-off splash release without having any idea that it was something that so many people actually wanted. But this release has been such a mess of miscommunication and misunderstanding that it's kind of hard to say for sure.
2017/04/02 23:09:43
Subject: Games Workshop - Page 6 - Shadow War Armageddon and new AoS Starter Set teased at GAMA trade show
The reason for doing a small run is not to create artificial demand. It is not why Nintendo operates this way and not why GW does it.
The history of retail is full of examples of companies going bankrupt by making too many products.
The collapse of the video game business and the landfill full of e.t. games is one of the most famous examples.
Just recently Disney infinity was cancelled because they made too many toys.
If you make too many of a product you not only lose the money spent on production but you have to pay for storage and shipping. You are also filling up shelf space in stores with product that does not sell so you are hurting sales of other products.
In the end it is much better for a company to make 10,000 copies of a product and sell out than to make 100,000 copies and only sell 50,000.
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