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Manchu wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
All I know is what wayland told me that GW told them. "No more box sets will be produced". They even canclled my preorder, so I wouldn't be expecting any re-runs.

Yeah, I think Wayland's announcement pretty much cinches it - I have to say, I am starting to think that frozenwastes was correct and I was wrong about this box being under-priced. I'm not one of those posters that assumes GW is stupid or evil so I am wondering if what happened here was more complicated than "oops we forgot to tell everyone outside of Nottingham that this was limited."

I think they are simply telling the truth and underestimated the demand and part of that demand was caused by people thinking this was an evergreen game going forward. People like future releases for their games and I'm guessing they thought this game was going to be an ongoing product line. On both local facebook groups and email lists for a couple nearby clubs, everyone was going ape gak about this game being something more than a one and done. That it was the relaunch of Necromunda and a new ongoing gateway into the 40k universe.

Given what mikhaila wrote, I think the misunderstanding was not inside GW. If trade sales personnel know the product is a limited run, then there probably wasn't an internal disconnect. As well, did the GAMA presenters every actually say this was an ongoing product line? Or did people assume it was because they took it to a trade show. If demand was what they were expecting, then taking it to a trade show makes a lot of sense. They needed to flog it.

The real point of this product was to cover the tooling and design costs of ongoing 40k terrain. GW knows their products sell well within a month or two of release and selling a bunch of box sets with some terrain and a bunch of scouts and orks that have had their tooling costs recouped years ago is a great way to make that happen.

The truth of the matter is that the product was not under priced if they actually want to embrace the main advantage of injection moulding plastic. The lowering of the marginal cost of the next sprue produced. So in that way I am wrong. 15 years ago, GW embraced that advantage, but since then they've moved away from it and gone with a premium pricing model. So they have a manufacturing process that contradicts how they sell models, but they manage to sell enough models to overcome not taking maximum advantage of the cost reduction by selling stand alone products or bundles, or other launch marketing to make sure the initial sales covers the up front costs.

Invest X thousands in tooling and design. Make a bundle/box set that covers that enough to meet their expected margins once it finally sells through. Have a range of terrain models going forward where the costs are all covered and the margins are fantastic, even if they never sell as well as they did within a couple months of launch.

Mark Well's plan works. The only problem for the last few years is that Kirby took Wells' plan and combined it with complete communication shutdown. Now Rountree is taking that original plan and combining it with actual engagement with social media, their own community site, and even trade shows and conventions.

I think all this talk of complex and convoluted plans is a bit overkill. GW does not have the history to support such cleverness.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, it was a game, set in Necromunda, that focussed on inter-gang warfare that had a campaign/experience system that allowed individual models to change and advance as individuals over multiple games.

You could argue it wasn't Necromunda for some random reason, but it would be fairly pedantic to do so.

No it would just be correct. It was different rules, had a different name, and wasn't the game being referred to earlier. Spiritual predecessor, yes. Same game, no.

What would be pedantic would be continuing down this path of "X = Y" that isn't relevant to the thread or even the question posed, as I've answered that by posting the link from the XCom remake developer talking about 'Necromunda' (yes the 1995 game called 'Necromunda', not Confrontation).

Once again, PM me if you want to continue this new tangent so folks can get back to their thread about Shadow War: Armageddon. Which is also not Necromunda, though it is mighty similar. ;-)

My SWA has left GW! Looking forward to it. I can't wait to make a Kill Team.

Mine shows delivering tomorrow. Its going to be a long day at work waiting to get home to it.

 JohnnyHell wrote:


No it would just be correct. It was different rules, had a different name, and wasn't the game being referred to earlier. Spiritual predecessor, yes. Same game, no.

By that extension, the first 3 editions of 40K are considered different games as well? All three had completely different rules, 2nd onwards dropped "Rogue Trader" from the name, heck, even the background was more radically altered than from Confrontation into Necromunda between 1st and 2nd.

If it walks like a duck, don't try and argue it's an aquatic avian quacking device.

Does it really matter?

It's probably time to move on from the Confrontation/Necromunda discussion. Or at the very least, take it to a separate thread.

The GW store nearest to the work is arguably the biggest one in my country. If I get there around 10:15-10:25, will I get a box?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The GW store nearest to the work is arguably the biggest one in my country. If I get there around 10:15-10:25, will I get a box?

I doubt it.

 frozenwastes wrote:
A lot of stuff

Spoiler:

Manchu wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
All I know is what wayland told me that GW told them. "No more box sets will be produced". They even canclled my preorder, so I wouldn't be expecting any re-runs.

Yeah, I think Wayland's announcement pretty much cinches it - I have to say, I am starting to think that frozenwastes was correct and I was wrong about this box being under-priced. I'm not one of those posters that assumes GW is stupid or evil so I am wondering if what happened here was more complicated than "oops we forgot to tell everyone outside of Nottingham that this was limited."

I think they are simply telling the truth and underestimated the demand and part of that demand was caused by people thinking this was an evergreen game going forward. People like future releases for their games and I'm guessing they thought this game was going to be an ongoing product line. On both local facebook groups and email lists for a couple nearby clubs, everyone was going ape gak about this game being something more than a one and done. That it was the relaunch of Necromunda and a new ongoing gateway into the 40k universe.

Given what mikhaila wrote, I think the misunderstanding was not inside GW. If trade sales personnel know the product is a limited run, then there probably wasn't an internal disconnect. As well, did the GAMA presenters every actually say this was an ongoing product line? Or did people assume it was because they took it to a trade show. If demand was what they were expecting, then taking it to a trade show makes a lot of sense. They needed to flog it.

The real point of this product was to cover the tooling and design costs of ongoing 40k terrain. GW knows their products sell well within a month or two of release and selling a bunch of box sets with some terrain and a bunch of scouts and orks that have had their tooling costs recouped years ago is a great way to make that happen.

The truth of the matter is that the product was not under priced if they actually want to embrace the main advantage of injection moulding plastic. The lowering of the marginal cost of the next sprue produced. So in that way I am wrong. 15 years ago, GW embraced that advantage, but since then they've moved away from it and gone with a premium pricing model. So they have a manufacturing process that contradicts how they sell models, but they manage to sell enough models to overcome not taking maximum advantage of the cost reduction by selling stand alone products or bundles, or other launch marketing to make sure the initial sales covers the up front costs.

Invest X thousands in tooling and design. Make a bundle/box set that covers that enough to meet their expected margins once it finally sells through. Have a range of terrain models going forward where the costs are all covered and the margins are fantastic, even if they never sell as well as they did within a couple months of launch.

Mark Well's plan works. The only problem for the last few years is that Kirby took Wells' plan and combined it with complete communication shutdown. Now Rountree is taking that original plan and combining it with actual engagement with social media, their own community site, and even trade shows and conventions.

The thing is they didn't just take it to a trade show, they've also produced a whole promotional pack of posters, wristbands, etc. That kind of stuff is there to raise the profile of a release and get more people buying it over a period of time. If you don't have any stock beyond a splash release and have no intention of restocking or providing ongoing support, why spend a lot of time and resources to try and raise the profile of the game in stores after release? The real telling thing for me is they had no separate rulebook ready, either print or digital. If this was intended to be an ongoing game that would at least have been slated for a follow up release, if not on the day, but all of GWs announcements imply that they are not accelerating a product they planned to release later, but having to create it from scratch. This speaks to an internal disconnect.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The GW store nearest to the work is arguably the biggest one in my country. If I get there around 10:15-10:25, will I get a box?

Does your store let you preorder by phone?

Jadenim wrote:
The thing is they didn't just take it to a trade show, they've also produced a whole promotional pack of posters, wristbands, etc. That kind of stuff is there to raise the profile of a release and get more people buying it over a period of time. If you don't have any stock beyond a splash release and have no intention of restocking or providing ongoing support, why spend a lot of time and resources to try and raise the profile of the game in stores after release?

They honestly underestimated the demand and thought the copies they printed would sell out in 60 days or so (a pretty common time frame for estimating initial print runs based on previous sales) with this marketing experiment being part of that. They were honestly caught off guard.

The real telling thing for me is they had no separate rulebook ready, either print or digital. If this was intended to be an ongoing game that would at least have been slated for a follow up release, if not on the day, but all of GWs announcements imply that they are not accelerating a product they planned to release later, but having to create it from scratch. This speaks to an internal disconnect.

The lack of a separate rulebook or a follow up product shows how surprised they were, not that one guy forgot to send another a memo or something.

TheGrimDork wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The GW store nearest to the work is arguably the biggest one in my country. If I get there around 10:15-10:25, will I get a box?

I doubt it.

'Spose I should mention that they open at 10am.

Oh well in that case you will certainly, absolutely get a copy, because we are able to determine their stock levels and the number of customers before you that will want copies, not to mention any the staff may have put aside for themselves and completely eliminated any possibilities of deliveries being disrupted.

Seriously, what kind of a stupid question is that? how are any of us possibly going to be able to tell you if you're going to get a copy?

Gots me x2 copies yesterday .

GW UK haven't dispatched mine yet. It's annoying that I get a better service from discounters than I do going direct to the source.

Tenso! Hoping to pick up my box this afternoon.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The GW store nearest to the work is arguably the biggest one in my country. If I get there around 10:15-10:25, will I get a box?

I doubt it.
The chap at warhammer world told me that I would have to get there for opening time if I wanted a chance at getting one, and even then I would need to get there early !!

Also,
The box I thought was coming for my brother was ordered from Wayland, and they cancelled the order yesterday, typical wayland games, selling stuff they do not have.

 frozenwastes wrote:

Jadenim wrote:
The thing is they didn't just take it to a trade show, they've also produced a whole promotional pack of posters, wristbands, etc. That kind of stuff is there to raise the profile of a release and get more people buying it over a period of time. If you don't have any stock beyond a splash release and have no intention of restocking or providing ongoing support, why spend a lot of time and resources to try and raise the profile of the game in stores after release?

They honestly underestimated the demand and thought the copies they printed would sell out in 60 days or so (a pretty common time frame for estimating initial print runs based on previous sales) with this marketing experiment being part of that. They were honestly caught off guard.

Even if it was an underestimation the point of that specific trade show is to drive up the interest of retailers so they will carry the product lines. There is effectively nothing here for retailers to carry. No gaming retailer wants to sell just one of something, they want recursiveness. Maybe this is a consequence of GW not having trade show experience. They didn't even really think about the nature of this game. This isn't a Spacehulk or Warhammer Quest; while you don't necessarily need duplicate rule books or Killteams, you need more than just the terrain in the box and there is strong likelihood everyone interested will want their own rulebook. Even before you consider the people who wanted multiple copies for themselves this by the nature of the game was likely to sell 2 to 3 times as many copies just to accommodate a comparably sized player base as those other games.

The real telling thing for me is they had no separate rulebook ready, either print or digital. If this was intended to be an ongoing game that would at least have been slated for a follow up release, if not on the day, but all of GWs announcements imply that they are not accelerating a product they planned to release later, but having to create it from scratch. This speaks to an internal disconnect.

The lack of a separate rulebook or a follow up product shows how surprised they were, not that one guy forgot to send another a memo or something.

The lack of a rulebook is rather moot. This whole situation shows how little thought was put into how the nature of the game would necessitate multiple sales. Just for 2 people to play they will need more than two sets worth of terrain. The smallest "group" that can play out a campaign, as is intended, is going to be 4... meaning a group needs 4-6 boxes. They'd always have enough rulebooks. The typical store allocations have been only 4 sets, so unless you live in an area with multiple stores very few people will be able to have a dedicated group and the longevity of that small a group will be jeopardized by Ian inability to grow the group.

That would be true if you needed the box to play - which isn't the case.

You need 0 boxes to play.

I'm planning on getting to my store at 10:10. But that's only if it takes 8 minutes to get from the bus stop to the store.

Vorian wrote:
That would be true if you needed the box to play - which isn't the case.
You need 0 boxes to play.

of course because you can always illegally download the rules somewhere if someone scan and upload the book
otherwise each group need at least one box to play the game, and most groups prefer to have at least one book per 2 players

if you want to say people can still play something else
yes, you need 0 boxes of SW:A to play a small Skirmish game, you can always just buy Deadzone or Infinity instead or play 200 points 40k

no reason to buy in for SW:A

I have the Necromunda rules. They are out there for free. I know the changes from this thread. I am not some mad genius, It's easy to be in my situation.

The rulebook is coming separately, in whatever format. So in reality one person will need to buy that and the group is good.

So a worse case scenario, if you immediately wanted to play now, if for some reason you were incapable of playing unless you had a printed rulebook in front of you, would be 1 copy of the boxed game per group.

To suggest you need more than one per group is nothing but hyperbole to complain about GW underestimating demand.

Just give us a rulebook already !

Vorian wrote:
I have the Necromunda rules. They are out there for free. I know the changes from this thread. I am not some mad genius, It's easy to be in my situation.

No other miniatures game requires you to have an old rules set from a different game, and to use a rumours thread on a forum to find the changes from that rules set in order to play it. Until they release the rulebook separately (which wasn't the plan, originally), you do need the box to play.

"No other..."

This one doesn't either. You just can't get it for a bit.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
"No other..."

This one doesn't either. You just can't get it for a bit.

Until then though. And it wasn't me saying that, Vorian was saying that's how you can play it now. Not everyone wanting to play will have that knowledge.

Nope, I outlined multiple ways, one of which was requiring 1 box.

What I was refuting was that a group would need a box per player to play, which is obviously nonsense.

Depending on your circumstances you need a minimum of 0 or 1.

I need 0 (like plenty of people) and some people will insist they need 1 (even though all they actually need to do is wait a little bit).

Been told digital version of the rule book should be released very soon from BL. No word on price.

Speculation among the GW staff is that the only thing from the box set that will not be released separate/reprinted is the tokens.

My personal speculation is that a stand alone book reprint will be a few months out since they will need to get more printed, shipped, and disdributed. So a digital copy of the rules will be put out to tie people over.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
All I know is what wayland told me that GW told them. "No more box sets will be produced". They even canclled my preorder, so I wouldn't be expecting any re-runs.

Yeah, I think Wayland's announcement pretty much cinches it - I have to say, I am starting to think that frozenwastes was correct and I was wrong about this box being under-priced. I'm not one of those posters that assumes GW is stupid or evil so I am wondering if what happened here was more complicated than "oops we forgot to tell everyone outside of Nottingham that this was limited."

Maybe independents need to talk to their reps better?

Mikhaila posted that it was limited early on.

It might shock you bit we were very specific in our communications. Our email to customers was absolutely accurate in what had occurred. We also requested a call with Head of Trade that we are still waiting for. GW often limit a product in initial release windows, but they also indicate whether its a splash or limited release moving forwards, they didn't do that in this case. They also solicit for pre order numbers in advance, which we provided. Then we received less than 2% of the numbers required. Limiting supply raises prices fundamentally and reduces competition.