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Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely...

From GW, sure, but from Forge World it will happen.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely...

From GW, sure, but from Forge World it will happen.

Hmm maybe so - but that means it effectively doesn't exist for many customers ... such as myself.

My two copies of SWA arrived today! I had a chance to look over the box contents on Saturday but it will be nice to really get into the rulebook.

As an early adopter with a stack of rulebooks... I don't care about the reprint. If I want the new-ish book I'll buy it and use the other copies to get other people started. Whatever copy I have is meaningless if I can't get other people to play.

I find it hard to blame GW beyond the fact they should have made more starter boxes. This release of a standalone rulebook, in this instance is uncharacteristic of GW; this book clearly wasn't a planned release and it's clear they are working as best as they can to accommodate the community. These extra 50 pages are as much of an olive branch as they can give us at this time. Accept it graciously or risk never seeing any attempt to give us what was asked for.

Yes excellent point - what are a few extra pages available to me free online compared to lots of other people getting into tye game I want to play?

Manchu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely...

From GW, sure, but from Forge World it will happen.

Hmm maybe so - but that means it effectively doesn't exist for many customers ... such as myself.

My two copies of SWA arrived today! I had a chance to look over the box contents on Saturday but it will be nice to really get into the rulebook.

Blood Bowl didn't exist for you? Because if the SG team do get around to Necromunda after AT and BFHeresy, I'd expect it to get the same push as all of them, with a boxed set and some plastic releases supplemented by FW resin later - it'd be in stores at least as long as SWA has been.

BB definitely exists for me - as an all-plastic game sold by GW. FW makes models for it you say? :checks prices: No, you must be mistaken.

Manchu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely...

From GW, sure, but from Forge World it will happen.

Hmm maybe so - but that means it effectively doesn't exist for many customers ... such as myself.

My two copies of SWA arrived today! I had a chance to look over the box contents on Saturday but it will be nice to really get into the rulebook.

When I look at the nature of many of the old Necromunda miniatures I can't help but imagine FW can recapture and improve on the essence of those miniatures. While it varies with the different gangs, some will not translate well to multipose plastics... And even if GW did produce the range in plastics we would then have to resign ourselves to never seeing any of the more unique characters.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a mixed approach akin to Blood Bowl, where we receive some plastics and rulebook with FW producing in resin the more unique pieces and the gangs that are more challenging to produce in plastic.

 aka_mythos wrote:

Manchu wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely...

From GW, sure, but from Forge World it will happen.

Hmm maybe so - but that means it effectively doesn't exist for many customers ... such as myself.

My two copies of SWA arrived today! I had a chance to look over the box contents on Saturday but it will be nice to really get into the rulebook.

When I look at the nature of many of the old Necromunda miniatures I can't help but imagine FW can recapture and improve on the essence of those miniatures. While it varies with the different gangs, some will not translate well to multipose plastics... And even if GW did produce the range in plastics we would then have to resign ourselves to never seeing any of the more unique characters.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a mixed approach akin to Blood Bowl, where we receive some plastics and rulebook with FW producing in resin the more unique pieces and the gangs that are more challenging to produce in plastic.

I think every new specialist game will have the same chance of support as Blood Bowl. If the sales are there, GW will cater to customer with more releases, probably both from GW directly and FW.

This release should show GW at least as much interest for Shadow War as Necromunda. Time will tell if they've taken notice, I guess.

Well I know that people will tell me that HH proves otherwise but FW is a ghetto. Mainstream successful FW products into plastic GW releases? Good idea! Margoinalize successful GW products into FW super luxury items? Bad idea.

 Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely considering how much there is in the production line just to support 40k and AoS without even considering Blood Bowl and Hobbit/LotR. The beauty of Shadow War is that it runs parallel to 40k. Any new 40k support aside from the larger models could get Shadow War rules.

That said, all they'd have to really do is release some plastic gang kits and the force list to go along with them.

For that matter, it would be really easy to kit bash them into the Shadow War rules anyway.

rmeister0 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely considering how much there is in the production line just to support 40k and AoS without even considering Blood Bowl and Hobbit/LotR. The beauty of Shadow War is that it runs parallel to 40k. Any new 40k support aside from the larger models could get Shadow War rules.

That said, all they'd have to really do is release some plastic gang kits and the force list to go along with them.

For that matter, it would be really easy to kit bash them into the Shadow War rules anyway.

But that costs a ton of money, and I don't see that happening, ever. Atleast the plastic kits. They could easily write up rules to accommodate oldmunda model owners, but that's it.

There way to many third parties making resin/plastic proxy for necro its not worth their time.

My honest idea for the ganger model problem?

GW should release a generic 'human troops' boxed set with a few different styles of torsos and various weapons and bits.

Just keep things down to simple bits- flak/leather vests, tank tops, etc. Give a few head options like hooded, 'scarred badass', gasmask, etc. Stick everything from las-weapons to auto-weapons in there; toss in some knives, swords, axes, and flails.

Want to make Chaos Cultists? Inquisition Acolytes? Hive gangers? Rugged Guard Veterans? Penal Unit? You now have a big box of stuff to use.

That's a very un-GW approach

 aka_mythos wrote:
That's a very un-GW approach

I mean, it's not like they're carving molds for these guys otherwise.

GW wants to make more and more distinctive minis.

str00dles1 wrote:

rmeister0 wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Not to rain on any parades but actual Necromunda seems very unlikely considering how much there is in the production line just to support 40k and AoS without even considering Blood Bowl and Hobbit/LotR. The beauty of Shadow War is that it runs parallel to 40k. Any new 40k support aside from the larger models could get Shadow War rules.

That said, all they'd have to really do is release some plastic gang kits and the force list to go along with them.

For that matter, it would be really easy to kit bash them into the Shadow War rules anyway.

But that costs a ton of money, and I don't see that happening, ever. Atleast the plastic kits. They could easily write up rules to accommodate oldmunda model owners, but that's it.

There way to many third parties making resin/plastic proxy for necro its not worth their time.

Necromunda is a Specialist Games project and even as recently as FW's last event they said it's something they're gonna do. There don't appear to be plans by GW to support Shadow War past these few releases. The main advantage to having these seperate arms of a company with dedicated resources is that SG and FW are mandated to support these smaller games indefinitely where GW proper can't. Horus Heresy, Blood Bowl, Hobbit/LotR, Adeptus Titanicus, Battlefleet (Gothic), Necromunda, and Mordheim were the game's that FW and Specialist Games were initially planning to support... while I believe Blood Bowl's success has altered that in some way, they haven't canceled any of their plans, only delayed them.

If GW can viably produce as many Shadow War kits or as many Blood Bowl teams and see that as profitable it is within the realm of possibility to do so with gangs, even if only to a limited number of gangs.

 Manchu wrote:
Hmm maybe so - but that means it effectively doesn't exist for many customers ... such as myself.

You don't buy any FW stuff?

 Manchu wrote:
FW is a ghetto...

I'll take that as a 'no' then.

Wow... ghetto? You can't be serious.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow... ghetto?

Yeah, in the sense of isolation. I'm thinking of LotR/Hobbit. I pefer the idea of FW as a boutique where you can make things in very small batches and charge tons because they wouldn't sell in the mainstream channel. HH has severely distorted that model. I fear that assigning Hobbit/LotR and specialist games to FW is a surefire way to doom them.

TBF the problem started with the Badab War books. That could have been and probably should have been a mainstream product initiative, just as GW is slowly conceding that 30k should be.

 Manchu wrote:
BB definitely exists for me - as an all-plastic game sold by GW. FW makes models for it you say? :checks prices: No, you must be mistaken.

Blood Bowl is a plastic product made by the Specialist Games division with support from FW. Necromunda will be a plastic product made by the Specialist Games division with support from FW, because they don't need to produce game-specific terrain for it these days unlike AT, so they will have a similar plastics allocation to BB - again, assuming they do get around to it.

 Manchu wrote:
Well I know that people will tell me that HH proves otherwise but FW is a ghetto. Mainstream successful FW products into plastic GW releases? Good idea! Margoinalize successful GW products into FW super luxury items? Bad idea.

FW is a ghetto? What does that even mean? Maybe ten years ago you could make a serious argument that FW produce "super luxury items" relative to GW, but I'm afraid GW have very nearly caught up with them, the differential is nowhere near as large as your language implies. If you think a plastic gang with all-plastic expansion blisters will end up significantly cheaper than a plastic gang with FW resin expansion blisters, you should have another look at the prices on recent character plastics.

I think most of that isolation would be solved if you could FW shipped to a GW store for free.

That's pretty limited thinking, Yodhrin. There are ways to get around the high price of many character models (e.g., start collecting boxes) that are especially cost efficient in the context of Shadow War being ancillary to 40k proper - which ties back to the problem of Necromunda being truly "specialist" (i.e., narrow) by comparison. Also, a gang is not going to be priced at special character prices per fig unless it is sold via FW.

Again, I concede that FW could do resin Necromunda gangs for Shadow Wars - that would be a better use of FW considering such gangs are not going to be a competitive mainline product, unlike bells and whistles for the Legions. But that's also what I mean by FW being the appropriate channel for experiments and a terrible channel for supporting major successes. (Which in turn is why the HH stuff is so ambiguous.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think most of that isolation would be solved if you could FW shipped to a GW store for free.

Yes indeed - and for a while, this was a rumor. But the issue there is, could FW handle increased demand? Probably no chnace, espcially considering mainline GW is having trouble keeping up.

 Manchu wrote:
That's pretty limited thinking, Yodhrin. There are ways to get around the high price of many character models (e.g., start collecting boxes) that are especially cost efficient in the context of Shadow War being ancillary to 40k proper - which ties back to the problem of Necromunda being truly "specialist" (i.e., narrow) by comparison. Also, a gang is not going to be priced at special character prices per fig unless it is sold via FW.

See.... as an Australian ordering from FW is actually Cheaper than buying from GW one of the reason why 30k became so popular down here

The investments made in the last couple years to expand FW's capacity has GW considering it. I know GW's North American office has been asking for it for a while.

The greater number of plastics and box sets for Specialist Games could be as much as we ever get, but I think it's GWs way of feeling out just how broad the interest may be.

Talk about perverse incentives ! (re: australia)

Yeah for a while the conversion kits that came with the original plastic kits were cheaper than just buying the base plastic kit over here.

we had something similar
FW being cheaper than GW because of bad conversion rates and Finecast Price increase
So if they ever do the gangs again I really hope they come via FW and not from GW.

Edit: Been covered already.

Where Specialist Games fits into the corproate org chart is not at issue. The issue is, there are two kinds of BB products: (1) all plastic, available from GW and retailers, reasonably priced, discounts available, and (2) all resin, available only via direct from overseas boutique, boutique pricing. While I have purchased 100% of product type (1) stuff for BB, I have purchased and intend to purchase 0% of product type (2). I really doubt I am unique in this regard. If GW wants a product line to struggle and eventually fail then by all means shift it from (1) to (2).

Separately, the idea that Necromunda would be a big hit is not the correct lesson to draw from Shadow War's success. The lesson is, support Shadow War. Making hiver gangs is not that, which is probably why GW via FB was fairly dismissive of comments asking about that (e.g., advising people to use the IG lists pr adapt their own rules). That said, I would buy plastic Necromunda stuff just like I have been buying plastic BB stuff - I'd just avoid the overpriced, direct-only FW resin as I always have.

Even if it's only FW resin... you're talking about 8 - 14 models.

FW is too rich for my blood in terms of full armies, but £50 for a gang? It's really not the end of the world.

Maybe you are only talking about 50 GBP worth of models. And if every potential customer is also only talking about spending that much then what we have is a fairly insignificant line that will not get support over more profitable lines in a division of the company that already has limited resources. But hey I guess you assigned the line to said division in the first place because you never expected it to do well. This is what's called a self-fulfilling prophecy. Big successes like the plastic BB releaes and the Shadow War box afford GW chances to break out of that trap.

I'm pretty certain they will give it at least the same support as BB, so some plastic and some resin.

Resin will probably even be a money saver over the eBay prices I've had to pay