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The one with the grenade pin in her mouth is the worst one.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:
I wouldnt call the space marines monks, they are the backbone of the imperium, the main fleet and essentially the most iconic and important soldiers in the entire lore

I think you're forgetting tons of men and women here.

We call them Tyranid fodder.

I see... uh.

That being said I actually really like the imperial guard and would love to run an army of Ratlings!

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
My suggestion would be to look at an army that mostly suits you, which seems to be Dark Eldar. My second suggestion would be to look up or ask about what the Dark Eldar do well and specific strategies. Third suggestion would be to pick up or borrow a rulebook for Warhammer 40k 7th edition, or wait till 8th edition drops which won't be for a while. Lastly pick up the Dark Eldar codex and look over all the models and their point costs and read up on their special rules and look for ways to synergize.

Don't be afraid to use "count-as" models (someone else can give a better definition of count-as versus proxy) in place of the actual model GW sells for that unit.

I gueeeess.. Part of the fun was going outside the box and doing something unique, a unbound alien mercenary squad of aliens without an official force in the galexy.
I was just hoping somebody could give me a detailed break down of everything id need to invest in to make it viable and give me a run down on the stats involved or rules.
Like i still dont know what an Archon council is.

If you're going that far outside the box you just kind of have to accept that you're force isn't very powerful and find opponents willing to gimp their forces enough to make an even game.

ERJAK wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
My suggestion would be to look at an army that mostly suits you, which seems to be Dark Eldar. My second suggestion would be to look up or ask about what the Dark Eldar do well and specific strategies. Third suggestion would be to pick up or borrow a rulebook for Warhammer 40k 7th edition, or wait till 8th edition drops which won't be for a while. Lastly pick up the Dark Eldar codex and look over all the models and their point costs and read up on their special rules and look for ways to synergize.

Don't be afraid to use "count-as" models (someone else can give a better definition of count-as versus proxy) in place of the actual model GW sells for that unit.

I gueeeess.. Part of the fun was going outside the box and doing something unique, a unbound alien mercenary squad of aliens without an official force in the galexy.
I was just hoping somebody could give me a detailed break down of everything id need to invest in to make it viable and give me a run down on the stats involved or rules.
Like i still dont know what an Archon council is.

If you're going that far outside the box you just kind of have to accept that you're force isn't very powerful and find opponents willing to gimp their forces enough to make an even game.

Well i dont really know the rules all that well, thats why I made this post. So i could see if its even possible and get a better sense of how things work. Its not like i plan on really doing it and if i do its waaaay down the line. I just wanted to see what the reaction to it is and if it was good if anyone can suggest ways to improve it.

I might just invest in Kroot to use as civilians in an "Eradicate the aliens" game objective.

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Also, if you want a female army, why not Sisters of Battle?

Well cause they are almost all ironcast, overpriced, underpowered, all look the same, outdated and lore wise they are puritanical angry nuns who get there powers by worshiping the god emperor, so... yeah, boring?
Variety is never a bad thing, and some variety here is pretty exciting to me, the idea of these bad-ass warrior woman in power armour is genuinely intriguing to me. I have little interest in the leather bound high heeled nuns.

The sketchy biology science they use to exclude woman from the space marines is stupid and really serves no purpose other than saving money on model production. Its just silly that the gene seed can turn your spit into acid and turn you into a werewolf but yet apparently couldn't figure out how to make it compatible with woman.

Well, on the underpowered note, Sisters have some tricks they can play in game, and in the right hands can be quite a brutal army to fight against. And nobody knows their rules so a lot of people will be caught off guard.

Space marines are kinda the same thing, less nun more knight, that basically do the same thing.

Feel free to create a female space marine army, I honestly couldn't care less, but when you actively admit that it is a project just to piss people off, some people are gonna be a little upset.

Edit: Sisters are way way way more prevalent and numerous than space marines. Although marines are almost always focussed on, they are a tiny tiny minority, the super elite, hardly the bulk of the imperial forces. Those are the guard or the sisters.

And Tau look good on the surface, but once you get into the whole mind control pheromones from Ethereals and oppression of other 'lesser' races, it gets kinda creepy in the best way possible.

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Also, if you want a female army, why not Sisters of Battle?

Well cause they are almost all ironcast, overpriced, underpowered, all look the same, outdated and lore wise they are puritanical angry nuns who get there powers by worshiping the god emperor, so... yeah, boring?
Variety is never a bad thing, and some variety here is pretty exciting to me, the idea of these bad-ass warrior woman in power armour is genuinely intriguing to me. I have little interest in the leather bound high heeled nuns.

The sketchy biology science they use to exclude woman from the space marines is stupid and really serves no purpose other than saving money on model production. Its just silly that the gene seed can turn your spit into acid and turn you into a werewolf but yet apparently couldn't figure out how to make it compatible with woman.

Well, on the underpowered note, Sisters have some tricks they can play in game, and in the right hands can be quite a brutal army to fight against. And nobody knows their rules so a lot of people will be caught off guard.

Space marines are kinda the same thing, less nun more knight, that basically do the same thing.

Feel free to create a female space marine army, I honestly couldn't care less, but when you actively admit that it is a project just to piss people off, some people are gonna be a little upset.

Edit: Sisters are way way way more prevalent and numerous than space marines. Although marines are almost always focussed on, they are a tiny tiny minority, the super elite, hardly the bulk of the imperial forces. Those are the guard or the sisters.

And Tau look good on the surface, but once you get into the whole mind control pheromones from Ethereals and oppression of other 'lesser' races, it gets kinda creepy in the best way possible.

I really dont like Iron-caste models at the end of the day, I tend to avoid them like the plague. If I could swap there heads out for something a little more pleasant than id probably be all for them.
( Although I really dont like people mockingly telling me to use them or demanding I do )

And well I say I do it to piss people off, its mostly just a reaction to the extreme misogyny iv encountered within the community so I am being adversarial which is wrong and I shouldnt be prodding people like that.
Usually in self defence but at times its uncalled for. I just really get frustrated with the constant creepy and straight up sexist comments I get, and the mind boggling outrage I face at the mere mention of the concept. So as you can see its hard to keep a straight face and brush it off without taunting or pushing people. At least for me it is. I am not intending to troll or doing it for any nefarious reasons. Just fascinated by the female warrior idea. Bulky womanly bruisers get me all giddy with excitement and its one of my favourite archetypes.

And yeah, I know the Tau have the darker aspects, but all that stuff is small fry compared to the other races, like the space marines who literally just glass entire planets for having aliens on them or worshiping the wrong god, any provocation no matter how small is used to just purge billions of lives. And many other atrocities throughout the grimdark future.
When you have a group who at least on the surface claim to be trying to bring some unity and good to the galaxy and appear to treat there prisoners of war fairly and give opportunities to there newer recruits and all that, it seems a lot nicer. Id probably choose those guys over the imperium if given a choice.

Also i havent seen a lot of material that suggests they abuse the other races that join there empire, a few sterilization here and there such but for the most part they have allowed many humans to raise through the chain of command and hold land and even allowed inter species romances and allow any aliens in there armies to have freedom of religion so long as it does not superseed the "Greater good" sounds like a pretty good deal when everything else int he galaxy is a cesspit of death and misery.
Again, not the good guys, but the closest thing we got in comparison to the others.

( That is until Guilliman inevitably wakes up and whips the ultramarines back into shape. )

FYI - there is a lot of baggage behind the femarine topic. It is usually brought up to either flat-out troll 40k players or otherwise to accuse them of sexism/misogyny/chauvinism, a lot of the time accusations made by people who neither know nor care about 40k. So it is sort of a symbol of someone coming into your space, where you quietly do your hobby, just to unilaterally make fun of you and judge you. That is why it can be a sore subject.

"Tau are the good guys" actually also has a ton of baggage but it's a different kind. When GW introduced Tau, many gamers saw it as a transparent money grab by GW because anime was just becoming hugely popular at the time. There was a lot of criticism of the Tau as not fitting the 40k setting and even now years later people still debate it. Nowadays, the debate is modified a bit, usually with one person saying "the Taunare the good guys" and then others saying "no because XYZ" but it is essentially the original argument about whether Tau are grimdark enough.

I think Tau are superficially good guys. The Imperium asks for total sacrifice and gives basically nothing aside from the consolations of its ultra-racist religion, such as they are. The Tau promise more immediate, material comforts and offer a rationalized, although ultimately no less demanding and self-effacing doctrine. I guess the thing is, the Imperium are very forthright while the Tau are basically two-faced. It's creepy how they will (superficially) accept humans but only when and to the extent that the cost/benefit ratio is better than fighting/ultimately eradicating. One gets the feeling that the Tau are just pragmatic about there xenophobia, whereas the Imperium can afford to be more idealistic in its maniacal racism.

Plus Tau can be adorable and I like that.
They seem like they want to do the right thing ( For the most part ) So respect for effort?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
FYI - there is a lot of baggage behind the femarine topic. It is usually brought up to either flat-out troll 40k players or otherwise to accuse them of sexism/misogyny/chauvinism, a lot of the time accusations made by people who neither know nor care about 40k. So it is sort of a symbol of someone coming into your space, where you quietly do your hobby, just to unilaterally make fun of you and judge you. That is why it can be a sore subject.

"Tau are the good guys" actually also has a ton of baggage but it's a different kind. When GW introduced Tau, many gamers saw it as a transparent money grab by GW because anime was just becoming hugely popular at the time. There was a lot of criticism of the Tau as not fitting the 40k setting and even now years later people still debate it. Nowadays, the debate is modified a bit, usually with one person saying "the Taunare the good guys" and then others saying "no because XYZ" but it is essentially the original argument about whether Tau are grimdark enough.

I think Tau are superficially good guys. The Imperium asks for total sacrifice and gives basically nothing aside from the consolations of its ultra-racist religion, such as they are. The Tau promise more immediate, material comforts and offer a rationalized, although ultimately no less demanding and self-effacing doctrine. I guess the thing is, the Imperium are very forthright while the Tau are basically two-faced. It's creepy how they will (superficially) accept humans but only when and to the extent that the cost/benefit ratio is better than fighting/ultimately eradicating. One gets the feeling that the Tau are just pragmatic about there xenophobia, whereas the Imperium can afford to be more idealistic in its maniacal racism.

I get the sense that this community has a lot of baggage and hang ups over little things like this...

My opinion is, its a game, who cares what other people think or do. I can have my opinion that its unfair theres no fem space marines and that the Tau are pretty cool dudes and they can have theres, no reason to get upset and fight over it all the time. I think people need to just relax and realize its suppose to be fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DizzyStorey wrote:



Plus Tau can be adorable and I like that.
They seem like they want to do the right thing ( For the most part ) So respect for effort?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
FYI - there is a lot of baggage behind the femarine topic. It is usually brought up to either flat-out troll 40k players or otherwise to accuse them of sexism/misogyny/chauvinism, a lot of the time accusations made by people who neither know nor care about 40k. So it is sort of a symbol of someone coming into your space, where you quietly do your hobby, just to unilaterally make fun of you and judge you. That is why it can be a sore subject.

"Tau are the good guys" actually also has a ton of baggage but it's a different kind. When GW introduced Tau, many gamers saw it as a transparent money grab by GW because anime was just becoming hugely popular at the time. There was a lot of criticism of the Tau as not fitting the 40k setting and even now years later people still debate it. Nowadays, the debate is modified a bit, usually with one person saying "the Taunare the good guys" and then others saying "no because XYZ" but it is essentially the original argument about whether Tau are grimdark enough.

I think Tau are superficially good guys. The Imperium asks for total sacrifice and gives basically nothing aside from the consolations of its ultra-racist religion, such as they are. The Tau promise more immediate, material comforts and offer a rationalized, although ultimately no less demanding and self-effacing doctrine. I guess the thing is, the Imperium are very forthright while the Tau are basically two-faced. It's creepy how they will (superficially) accept humans but only when and to the extent that the cost/benefit ratio is better than fighting/ultimately eradicating. One gets the feeling that the Tau are just pragmatic about there xenophobia, whereas the Imperium can afford to be more idealistic in its maniacal racism.

I get the sense that this community has a lot of baggage and hang ups over little things like this...

My opinion is, its a game, who cares what other people think or do. I can have my opinion that its unfair theres no fem space marines and that the Tau are pretty cool dudes and they can have theres, no reason to get upset and fight over it all the time. I think people need to just relax and realize its suppose to be fun.

I see the tou as something like the Quinari, Ridged and unflinching but from what iv read, once you are with them its about the code and the purpose not about race. But I think much of this is upto player perspective, you can find fluff that supports either arguement and neither is correct or incorrect they are just two aspects to a nuanced group, i think every crew in 40k has its ups and downs and nothings perfect in this dark future.

 DizzyStorey wrote:
I get the sense that this community has a lot of baggage and hang ups over little things like this...

When it comes to hobbies, what counts as "little things" is just a matter of how important it is to the person in question. What people who like 40k consider important may seem trivial to people who don't like it/don't care.

 DizzyStorey wrote:
but from what iv read, once you are with them its about the code and the purpose not about race

Disagree. Never heard of non-Tau Ethereal Caste, for example. The Greater Good is ultimately the good of the Tau race. Tau believe that non-Tau can serve this purpose whereas Imperial orthodoxy (i.e., monodominant Puritanism) holds that xenos are inherently contrary to the good of mankind.

But for the purposes of collecting your own force, you can obviously theme it however you want. You can convert femarines or human Ethereals. It's your collection so its totally up to you.

Manchu wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:
I get the sense that this community has a lot of baggage and hang ups over little things like this...

When it comes to hobbies, what counts as "little things" is just a matter of how important it is to the person in question. What people who like 40k consider important may seem trivial to people who don't like it/don't care.

 DizzyStorey wrote:
but from what iv read, once you are with them its about the code and the purpose not about race

Disagree. Never heard of non-Tau Ethereal Caste, for example. The Greater Good is ultimately the good of the Tau race. Tau believe that non-Tau can serve this purpose whereas Imperial orthodoxy (i.e., monodominant Puritanism) holds that xenos are inherently contrary to the good of mankind.

But for the purposes of collecting your own force, you can obviously theme it however you want. You can convert femarines or human Ethereals. It's your collection so its totally up to you.

Oh trust me, I know what its like to be passionate over a hobby, but i try not to be mean to people over differences of opinion or view. Like if somebody argued with me over the meaning of lawful good in D&D I wouldn't berate or mock them.
I dont know if its an excuse for the behavior more of a explanation for it. But I do understand ware you are coming from.

---------------


Oh you meant the ethereals, nah thats all Tau all the way! I assume most humans sorta get devided up amongst the other castes, but within those castes they can own land and gain rank such as commanding units in the fire caste, or oversee the construction of buildings or engineering, or even helm a ship for the air caste.
That what i meant by equality ( which now that i think about it isnt quite equality but it is still nicer than expected ) there skills and abilities are divded up ware needed and put to use for the greater good.

From what I checked, castes seem to be Tau only.

 Bobthehero wrote:
From what I checked, castes seem to be Tau only.

I cant seem to find any information to suggest that they are or are not except for a few people theorizing that they would have to in order to command or operate within the military, engineering, workers and piloting. integrating them into the command structure would be rather hard without it.

 DizzyStorey wrote:
...hell the sisters of battle are minor and theres like 5 seperate space marine chapters, simply put its just silly...

Sisters are huge in the fluff and mostly under-represented where as Astartes are the polar opposite, quite small in the fluff but over-represented.

Also, there is well over 5 Space Marine chapters

Personally i just think Space marines are bad-ass so i am choosing to ignore the misogynistic crap that comes with this hobby.

Space Marines aren't a no-girls-club for the sake of being one. All Space Marines are genetic clones of their Primarchs who are genetic clones of the Emperor. It's like saying the Clones in Star Wars are all sexists even though they are all based off of Jango Fett. I wouldn't even go as far to say Space Marines are human in the same regard as you or I either. They are post-human and their only purpose is war. They might as well be organic automatons.

Back on topic, I suggest picking up an Eldar or Dark Eldar Codex and reading over the units. They should be "special" enough and allow room for conversions. If you want some fluff (stories. I'm not sure how well acquainted you were with terminology) I suggest buying the Path of the Eldar or Path of the Dark Eldar books as they give a wide view on both of those factions.

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Also, if you want a female army, why not Sisters of Battle?

Well cause they are almost all ironcast, overpriced, underpowered, all look the same, outdated and lore wise they are puritanical angry nuns who get there powers by worshiping the god emperor, so... yeah, boring?
Variety is never a bad thing, and some variety here is pretty exciting to me, the idea of these bad-ass warrior woman in power armour is genuinely intriguing to me. I have little interest in the leather bound high heeled nuns.

The sketchy biology science they use to exclude woman from the space marines is stupid and really serves no purpose other than saving money on model production. Its just silly that the gene seed can turn your spit into acid and turn you into a werewolf but yet apparently couldn't figure out how to make it compatible with woman.

Well, on the underpowered note, Sisters have some tricks they can play in game, and in the right hands can be quite a brutal army to fight against. And nobody knows their rules so a lot of people will be caught off guard.

Space marines are kinda the same thing, less nun more knight, that basically do the same thing.

Feel free to create a female space marine army, I honestly couldn't care less, but when you actively admit that it is a project just to piss people off, some people are gonna be a little upset.

Edit: Sisters are way way way more prevalent and numerous than space marines. Although marines are almost always focussed on, they are a tiny tiny minority, the super elite, hardly the bulk of the imperial forces. Those are the guard or the sisters.

And Tau look good on the surface, but once you get into the whole mind control pheromones from Ethereals and oppression of other 'lesser' races, it gets kinda creepy in the best way possible.

I really dont like Iron-caste models at the end of the day, I tend to avoid them like the plague. If I could swap there heads out for something a little more pleasant than id probably be all for them.
( Although I really dont like people mockingly telling me to use them or demanding I do )

And well I say I do it to piss people off, its mostly just a reaction to the extreme misogyny iv encountered within the community so I am being adversarial which is wrong and I shouldnt be prodding people like that.
Usually in self defence but at times its uncalled for. I just really get frustrated with the constant creepy and straight up sexist comments I get, and the mind boggling outrage I face at the mere mention of the concept. So as you can see its hard to keep a straight face and brush it off without taunting or pushing people. At least for me it is. I am not intending to troll or doing it for any nefarious reasons. Just fascinated by the female warrior idea. Bulky womanly bruisers get me all giddy with excitement and its one of my favourite archetypes.

And yeah, I know the Tau have the darker aspects, but all that stuff is small fry compared to the other races, like the space marines who literally just glass entire planets for having aliens on them or worshiping the wrong god, any provocation no matter how small is used to just purge billions of lives. And many other atrocities throughout the grimdark future.
When you have a group who at least on the surface claim to be trying to bring some unity and good to the galaxy and appear to treat there prisoners of war fairly and give opportunities to there newer recruits and all that, it seems a lot nicer. Id probably choose those guys over the imperium if given a choice.

Also i havent seen a lot of material that suggests they abuse the other races that join there empire, a few sterilization here and there such but for the most part they have allowed many humans to raise through the chain of command and hold land and even allowed inter species romances and allow any aliens in there armies to have freedom of religion so long as it does not superseed the "Greater good" sounds like a pretty good deal when everything else int he galaxy is a cesspit of death and misery.
Again, not the good guys, but the closest thing we got in comparison to the others.

( That is until Guilliman inevitably wakes up and whips the ultramarines back into shape. )

I can't speak for your personal life, but from the few times I've seen you around Dakka, nobody has been especially mean. (Pouncey and Stormhammer Painting are good examples of people who post often enough but are most often attacked or 'bullied' as much as I dislike that word.)

Some people can be harsh here, but that's hardly being 'mean'

 DizzyStorey wrote:
...I like the idea of a female space marine option. I think its neat...

That's all that matters. I don't see why people are making such a huge issue out of this. At the end of the day, it's YOUR money, it's YOUR time, It's YOUR army. Do what YOU want to do. If your fluff is some crazy apothecary who decides to attempt to breed femarines or a secluded planet home to a SM chapter that became dominated by women after a war wiped out 90% of its men means they have to experiment to bring their numbers back up to strength, then have at it. All it would take is buying a few heads from a 3rd party retailer and throwing them on some SM.
SoB and SM are different. SoB might have power armor, but they don't have the same army options as SM and, fluff-wise, they're normal humans, not the extra-organ muscle bound super humans.

.....also, the IoM wouldn't exist if it weren't for the untold billions of Guardsmen who hold the line!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
DizzyStorey and others, recommend you check out this page (it's pretty old, but the points remain the same): http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarsgirls.html

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Also, if you want a female army, why not Sisters of Battle?

Well cause they are almost all ironcast, overpriced, underpowered, all look the same, outdated and lore wise they are puritanical angry nuns who get there powers by worshiping the god emperor, so... yeah, boring?
Variety is never a bad thing, and some variety here is pretty exciting to me, the idea of these bad-ass warrior woman in power armour is genuinely intriguing to me. I have little interest in the leather bound high heeled nuns.

The sketchy biology science they use to exclude woman from the space marines is stupid and really serves no purpose other than saving money on model production. Its just silly that the gene seed can turn your spit into acid and turn you into a werewolf but yet apparently couldn't figure out how to make it compatible with woman.

Well, on the underpowered note, Sisters have some tricks they can play in game, and in the right hands can be quite a brutal army to fight against. And nobody knows their rules so a lot of people will be caught off guard.

Space marines are kinda the same thing, less nun more knight, that basically do the same thing.

Feel free to create a female space marine army, I honestly couldn't care less, but when you actively admit that it is a project just to piss people off, some people are gonna be a little upset.

Edit: Sisters are way way way more prevalent and numerous than space marines. Although marines are almost always focussed on, they are a tiny tiny minority, the super elite, hardly the bulk of the imperial forces. Those are the guard or the sisters.

And Tau look good on the surface, but once you get into the whole mind control pheromones from Ethereals and oppression of other 'lesser' races, it gets kinda creepy in the best way possible.

I really dont like Iron-caste models at the end of the day, I tend to avoid them like the plague. If I could swap there heads out for something a little more pleasant than id probably be all for them.
( Although I really dont like people mockingly telling me to use them or demanding I do )

And well I say I do it to piss people off, its mostly just a reaction to the extreme misogyny iv encountered within the community so I am being adversarial which is wrong and I shouldnt be prodding people like that.
Usually in self defence but at times its uncalled for. I just really get frustrated with the constant creepy and straight up sexist comments I get, and the mind boggling outrage I face at the mere mention of the concept. So as you can see its hard to keep a straight face and brush it off without taunting or pushing people. At least for me it is. I am not intending to troll or doing it for any nefarious reasons. Just fascinated by the female warrior idea. Bulky womanly bruisers get me all giddy with excitement and its one of my favourite archetypes.

And yeah, I know the Tau have the darker aspects, but all that stuff is small fry compared to the other races, like the space marines who literally just glass entire planets for having aliens on them or worshiping the wrong god, any provocation no matter how small is used to just purge billions of lives. And many other atrocities throughout the grimdark future.
When you have a group who at least on the surface claim to be trying to bring some unity and good to the galaxy and appear to treat there prisoners of war fairly and give opportunities to there newer recruits and all that, it seems a lot nicer. Id probably choose those guys over the imperium if given a choice.

Also i havent seen a lot of material that suggests they abuse the other races that join there empire, a few sterilization here and there such but for the most part they have allowed many humans to raise through the chain of command and hold land and even allowed inter species romances and allow any aliens in there armies to have freedom of religion so long as it does not superseed the "Greater good" sounds like a pretty good deal when everything else int he galaxy is a cesspit of death and misery.
Again, not the good guys, but the closest thing we got in comparison to the others.

( That is until Guilliman inevitably wakes up and whips the ultramarines back into shape. )

I can't speak for your personal life, but from the few times I've seen you around Dakka, nobody has been especially mean. (Pouncey and Stormhammer Painting are good examples of people who post often enough but are most often attacked or 'bullied' as much as I dislike that word.)

Some people can be harsh here, but that's hardly being 'mean'

So far people have been pretty decent here, iv had a few rather nasty privet messages and some really demeaning or patronizing comments, but overall iv had a pretty good conversation here on the subject. Other forums and outside of the internet is another story however, Iv had som really uncomfortable or aggressive comments slung at me ( Got called a SJW whore once for suggesting the idea ) So its a bit of a sore spot I guess? I mean I am fine, big girl and all, not gunna get butthurt over some rude jabs and opposition, I have a really bad habit of antagonizing people when they start getting hostile or irritated which causes it to spiral quickly out of control.

So yeah, I can be a pain in the ass on the subject but I am not a victim either, nobody has done much other than demeaningly tell me to play the sisters of battle or get frustrated and say gakky things. But its just words and no big deal. all its gunna do is probably ruin a good conversation?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:
...hell the sisters of battle are minor and theres like 5 seperate space marine chapters, simply put its just silly...

Sisters are huge in the fluff and mostly under-represented where as Astartes are the polar opposite, quite small in the fluff but over-represented.

Also, there is well over 5 Space Marine chapters

Spoiler:

Personally i just think Space marines are bad-ass so i am choosing to ignore the misogynistic crap that comes with this hobby.

Space Marines aren't a no-girls-club for the sake of being one. All Space Marines are genetic clones of their Primarchs who are genetic clones of the Emperor. It's like saying the Clones in Star Wars are all sexists even though they are all based off of Jango Fett. I wouldn't even go as far to say Space Marines are human in the same regard as you or I either. They are post-human and their only purpose is war. They might as well be organic automatons.

Back on topic, I suggest picking up an Eldar or Dark Eldar Codex and reading over the units. They should be "special" enough and allow room for conversions. If you want some fluff (stories. I'm not sure how well acquainted you were with terminology) I suggest buying the Path of the Eldar or Path of the Dark Eldar books as they give a wide view on both of those factions.

But thats the thing, somehow I think it would be better if it was a no girls allowed club. If you just said "The emperor is a patriarchal god king and he says no boobs in the space marines" I can get that for fluff and lore purposes. Its thematic and understandable..
But giving a sketchy biological reason thats very contrived and roundabout just sounds like a excuse, like metal gear solids "She breaths through her skin" arguement. Its a artificially created situation to say "What could we do, our hands are tied, woman just cant handle it cause of the science we made up to prevent it" Like the gene-seed can turn your spit to acid and make you immune to radiation but it cant get around a XX Chromosome? Its just silly ya know? These guys arent clones they are just enhanced, if they were all just the same guy cloned over and over thats one thing but they are all real people indoctrinated and trained and than fused with upgrades and gene-seeds.
Now I get it, the game is like a billion years old and made by even older guys back before this was even a perceived issue. I am not going to say it was an act of evil to try and keep woman out of the game.. infact woman players were probably not even a thought at the time of this games creation. I am going to go out on a limb here and assume it was probably to keep model production reasons or something else of that vain.

My only issue is that its such a big deal and usually ends with such an extreme reaction for anyone who wants to do so anyway. It can be a very hostile environment at those times.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flanker wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:
...I like the idea of a female space marine option. I think its neat...

That's all that matters. I don't see why people are making such a huge issue out of this. At the end of the day, it's YOUR money, it's YOUR time, It's YOUR army. Do what YOU want to do. If your fluff is some crazy apothecary who decides to attempt to breed femarines or a secluded planet home to a SM chapter that became dominated by women after a war wiped out 90% of its men means they have to experiment to bring their numbers back up to strength, then have at it. All it would take is buying a few heads from a 3rd party retailer and throwing them on some SM.
SoB and SM are different. SoB might have power armor, but they don't have the same army options as SM and, fluff-wise, they're normal humans, not the extra-organ muscle bound super humans.

.....also, the IoM wouldn't exist if it weren't for the untold billions of Guardsmen who hold the line!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
DizzyStorey and others, recommend you check out this page (it's pretty old, but the points remain the same): http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarsgirls.html

Thank you! That was a very nice response.
Yeah I was thinking a rogue apothecary with dreams of legacy and desire to create something special of his own was a good easy way to justify it. Heretical by nature but fun!

I'm sorry about the rude comments.

I would be appalled to meet any gamers like that... I'm surprised I haven't. (Boulder bubble and the such might explain it)

Also, not sure if it was me you referencing, but I was quite sincere when I suggested Sisters of Battle. Hell, they are my main army and I've got about 7000 points worth of them in the case behind me. Hardly dismissive, I think you might be projecting a little bit of hostility towards those who didn't mean it.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
I'm sorry about the rude comments.

I would be appalled to meet any gamers like that... I'm surprised I haven't. (Boulder bubble and the such might explain it)

Awwh its okay ^ _ ^ Its not as bad as it sounds, just sorta made me feel unwelcome at first, but the longer you stick with it the more nice people you meet and I would say the rude hypersensitive people are a minority definitely, just a very passionate minority. I know every group has its bad apples!

GodDamUser wrote:
You can do it as an unbound army

But you may still need to get a Beast Master

the main issue is a lot of people wont play against unbound and no events let them happen

Sad but true... and it's a BS mentality in my opinion. Idc who I play or if I win as long as I have fun I wouldn't want to ruin someone else's fun if they truly loved the models in their unbound list...

 DizzyStorey wrote:

But thats the thing, somehow I think it would be better if it was a no girls allowed club. If you just said "The emperor is a patriarchal god king and he says no boobs in the space marines" I can get that for fluff and lore purposes. Its thematic and understandable..

Weren't you just saying how not allowing women to become was extremely misogynistic? I can't tell if this is a poor attempt at trolling or simply cognitive dissonance.

But giving a sketchy biological reason thats very contrived and roundabout just sounds like a excuse, like metal gear solids "She breaths through her skin" arguement. Its a artificially created situation to say "What could we do, our hands are tied, woman just cant handle it cause of the science we made up to prevent it"

This argument is about as bad as trying to make the "Male Sororitas" argument. There is fluff science (I.e. Genetic cloning) in place that prevents female Space Marines. There is also the process of finding applicants to become Space Marines which in most cases would exclude women considering humans are sexually dimorphic and most of the applicants (all of whom are males) don't live through the trials. If you really desire female Space Marines then go the Fabius Bile route.

Like the gene-seed can turn your spit to acid and make you immune to radiation but it cant get around a XX Chromosome? Its just silly ya know? These guys arent clones they are just enhanced, if they were all just the same guy cloned over and over thats one thing but they are all real people indoctrinated and trained and than fused with upgrades and gene-seeds.

There are like 19 different "gene-seed" organs, the last two being Progenoid Glands which everyone coins as Gene-seeds.

Also they are cloned:

Warhammer40kwikia wrote:Thus, for most Astartes, their Progenoid Glands represent the only form of reproduction they will ever know, though the DNA passed on will be that of their Primarch, not their own.

My only issue is that its such a big deal and usually ends with such an extreme reaction for anyone who wants to do so anyway. It can be a very hostile environment at those times.

It becomes a big deal when others like to prioritize their opinions over set canon, no offense, or the person you are arguing with is in fact an salty player that gets triggered over the idea of this conversation.

 curran12 wrote:
Also, not sure if it was me you referencing, but I was quite sincere when I suggested Sisters of Battle. Hell, they are my main army and I've got about 7000 points worth of them in the case behind me. Hardly dismissive, I think you might be projecting a little bit of hostility towards those who didn't mean it.

No it wasn't you I was referring too. Its a really common thing to encounter.
I do by habit get miffed when people tell me to play them now, but its only through repetition, Trust me you gave a suggestion, iv had people straight up mock and taunt me with the subject.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

But thats the thing, somehow I think it would be better if it was a no girls allowed club. If you just said "The emperor is a patriarchal god king and he says no boobs in the space marines" I can get that for fluff and lore purposes. Its thematic and understandable..

Weren't you just saying how not allowing women to become was extremely misogynistic? I can't tell if this is a poor attempt at trolling or simply cognitive dissonance.

But giving a sketchy biological reason thats very contrived and roundabout just sounds like a excuse, like metal gear solids "She breaths through her skin" arguement. Its a artificially created situation to say "What could we do, our hands are tied, woman just cant handle it cause of the science we made up to prevent it"

This argument is about as bad as trying to make the "Male Sororitas" argument. There is fluff science (I.e. Genetic cloning) in place that prevents female Space Marines. There is also the process of finding applicants to become Space Marines which in most cases would exclude women considering humans are sexually dimorphic and most of the applicants (all of whom are males) don't live through the trials. If you really desire female Space Marines then go the Fabius Bile route.

Like the gene-seed can turn your spit to acid and make you immune to radiation but it cant get around a XX Chromosome? Its just silly ya know? These guys arent clones they are just enhanced, if they were all just the same guy cloned over and over thats one thing but they are all real people indoctrinated and trained and than fused with upgrades and gene-seeds.

There are like 19 different "gene-seed" organs, the last two being Progenoid Glands which everyone coins as Gene-seeds.

Also they are cloned:

Warhammer40kwikia wrote:Thus, for most Astartes, their Progenoid Glands represent the only form of reproduction they will ever know, though the DNA passed on will be that of their Primarch, not their own.

My only issue is that its such a big deal and usually ends with such an extreme reaction for anyone who wants to do so anyway. It can be a very hostile environment at those times.

It becomes a big deal when others like to prioritize their opinions over set canon, no offense, or the person you are arguing with is in fact an salty player that gets triggered over the idea of this conversation.

Clearly our views are different and we can keep going back and forth all day but I am tried of this conversation. I think its stupid and you obviously really like it. Not gunna convince each other otherwise so lets drop it.

You could always just do something like I did. My entire army uses the Sisters of Battle rules but I converted every single model from plastic. I created a reasonable fluff around them too that more aligns with an amazonian society of humans who just want to be left alone in their little corner of space. None of the models look as awful as the Sisters official models, they aren't just space marines with female heads, but I still can play them without nearly anyone causing a fuss (There's one TFG at my local store who complains about anything conversions).

 mmzero252 wrote:
You could always just do something like I did. My entire army uses the Sisters of Battle rules but I converted every single model from plastic. I created a reasonable fluff around them too that more aligns with an amazonian society of humans who just want to be left alone in their little corner of space. None of the models look as awful as the Sisters official models, they aren't just space marines with female heads, but I still can play them without nearly anyone causing a fuss (There's one TFG at my local store who complains about anything conversions).

XD Yeah like when you look at pictures of the sisters of battle they can look kinda cool and sometimes even cute, but when it comes to the models? They have a bad case of witch face...
If they had custom heads i could swap em around and have some fun but the fact that they are all Iron-caste basically neuters that option.

Why not use SM models with female heads, and use them as Count-As SoB? Hell, just call them SoB in an improved armour variant?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Why not use SM models with female heads, and use them as Count-As SoB? Hell, just call them SoB in an improved armour variant?

Eh, Mostly cause buying the signature haircutes are hard, they wont have all the emblems and I dont want to be restricted to the black and red paint job, i like the freedom that comes with space marine paint jobs and custom chapters. And if i dont paint the armor black and red, whats really left to signify them as sisters of battle.
Most importantly though... aggravating people is not really a barrier for me. There are plenty of viable work arounds that make for genuinely intrigue and fun story telling potential, the rogue apothecary or thunder warrior genetics are all decent fluff ( Plus I am enamoured with the amazonian themes )

And at the end of the day Its what i am most comfortable and happy with.

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Why not use SM models with female heads, and use them as Count-As SoB? Hell, just call them SoB in an improved armour variant?

Eh, Mostly cause buying the signature haircutes are hard, they wont have all the emblems and I dont want to be restricted to the black and red paint job, i like the freedom that comes with space marine paint jobs and custom chapters. And if i dont paint the armor black and red, whats really left to signify them as sisters of battle.

So I guess the Order of the Argent Shroud, Valorous Heart, Sacred Rose and Bloody Rose doesn't exist? I guess they're not Sisters of Battle then.
Nor can someone make their own Order of Sisters, apparently - just like I can't make my own Space Marine Chapter - they all have to be Ultramarines, because that's what most Space Marines are painted like, and what's left to make them Space Marines without that shiny lick of Macragge Blue paint...

No. Emblems are simple to paint or transfer on, or even make your own emblem. You can make your own colour scheme, even your own minor Order of Sisters.

Space Marines are not the only faction with freedom of colour and customisation, and I'm frankly a little in disbelief that you think that - is that a common belief that only Space Marines can have customisation?

Most importantly though... aggravating people is not really a barrier for me. There are plenty of viable work arounds that make for genuinely intrigue and fun story telling potential, the rogue apothecary or thunder warrior genetics are all decent fluff ( Plus I am enamoured with the amazonian themes )

You say intrigue and fun story telling potential, someone else might see that as Snowflakism, and a blatant disregard of the established canon in pursuit of personal pleasure without consideration of others you may be playing with.

Of course, not my personal view, but I've seen it enough.

And at the end of the day Its what i am most comfortable and happy with.

And that's fine by you. However, you really haven't said what Space Marines would be that Sisters also wouldn't. And with such a touchy subject, with the actual lore of the game against you, and the very real possibility that you are nearly seeking to offend people, it's a little iffy.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Why not use SM models with female heads, and use them as Count-As SoB? Hell, just call them SoB in an improved armour variant?

Eh, Mostly cause buying the signature haircutes are hard, they wont have all the emblems and I dont want to be restricted to the black and red paint job, i like the freedom that comes with space marine paint jobs and custom chapters. And if i dont paint the armor black and red, whats really left to signify them as sisters of battle.

So I guess the Order of the Argent Shroud, Valorous Heart, Sacred Rose and Bloody Rose doesn't exist? I guess they're not Sisters of Battle then.
Nor can someone make their own Order of Sisters, apparently - just like I can't make my own Space Marine Chapter - they all have to be Ultramarines, because that's what most Space Marines are painted like, and what's left to make them Space Marines without that shiny lick of Macragge Blue paint...

No. Emblems are simple to paint or transfer on, or even make your own emblem. You can make your own colour scheme, even your own minor Order of Sisters.

Space Marines are not the only faction with freedom of colour and customisation, and I'm frankly a little in disbelief that you think that - is that a common belief that only Space Marines can have customisation?

Most importantly though... aggravating people is not really a barrier for me. There are plenty of viable work arounds that make for genuinely intrigue and fun story telling potential, the rogue apothecary or thunder warrior genetics are all decent fluff ( Plus I am enamoured with the amazonian themes )

You say intrigue and fun story telling potential, someone else might see that as Snowflakism, and a blatant disregard of the established canon in pursuit of personal pleasure without consideration of others you may be playing with.

Of course, not my personal view, but I've seen it enough.

And at the end of the day Its what i am most comfortable and happy with.

And that's fine by you. However, you really haven't said what Space Marines would be that Sisters also wouldn't. And with such a touchy subject, with the actual lore of the game against you, and the very real possibility that you are nearly seeking to offend people, it's a little iffy.

Firstly I am not aware of these other orders or what they are about as far as I could see there is only one type of model for sale compared to the 4 seperate complete armies of the space marines and the 20 something other minor chapters which all get models and sale. So as far as I knew? They didnt exist.



Second.. I dont make a habbit of letting what other people think about me influence me or be pressured to do something Ido not want to do. If they will be upset over it than its their problem not mine, its their reputation when they throw a tantrum over a toy line of models and If they see it as snow-flaking, than I can conclude that they are not intelligent enough to warrant any farther interaction and move on with my life.



If the lore says woman cant do it than I can either choose to ignore the really dubious and silly pseudo science or find a work around in the lore, which i feel iv done.
And trust me. If I was trying to piss people off and get under there skin id be much less amicable and friendly. I mostly want to be left alone on the subject.
Weather I offend people or not plays no part in my decisions, that would require I care.

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Why not use SM models with female heads, and use them as Count-As SoB? Hell, just call them SoB in an improved armour variant?

Eh, Mostly cause buying the signature haircutes are hard, they wont have all the emblems and I dont want to be restricted to the black and red paint job, i like the freedom that comes with space marine paint jobs and custom chapters. And if i dont paint the armor black and red, whats really left to signify them as sisters of battle.

So I guess the Order of the Argent Shroud, Valorous Heart, Sacred Rose and Bloody Rose doesn't exist? I guess they're not Sisters of Battle then.
Nor can someone make their own Order of Sisters, apparently - just like I can't make my own Space Marine Chapter - they all have to be Ultramarines, because that's what most Space Marines are painted like, and what's left to make them Space Marines without that shiny lick of Macragge Blue paint...

No. Emblems are simple to paint or transfer on, or even make your own emblem. You can make your own colour scheme, even your own minor Order of Sisters.

Space Marines are not the only faction with freedom of colour and customisation, and I'm frankly a little in disbelief that you think that - is that a common belief that only Space Marines can have customisation?

Most importantly though... aggravating people is not really a barrier for me. There are plenty of viable work arounds that make for genuinely intrigue and fun story telling potential, the rogue apothecary or thunder warrior genetics are all decent fluff ( Plus I am enamoured with the amazonian themes )

You say intrigue and fun story telling potential, someone else might see that as Snowflakism, and a blatant disregard of the established canon in pursuit of personal pleasure without consideration of others you may be playing with.

Of course, not my personal view, but I've seen it enough.

And at the end of the day Its what i am most comfortable and happy with.

And that's fine by you. However, you really haven't said what Space Marines would be that Sisters also wouldn't. And with such a touchy subject, with the actual lore of the game against you, and the very real possibility that you are nearly seeking to offend people, it's a little iffy.

Firstly I am not aware of these other orders or what they are about as far as I could see there is only one type of model for sale compared to the 4 seperate complete armies of the space marines and the 20 something other minor chapters which all get models and sale. So as far as I knew? They didnt exist.

And now you know they do. Has that not swayed you?

Second.. I dont make a habbit of letting what other people think about me influence me or be pressured to do something Ido not want to do. If they will be upset over it than its there problem not mine, its there reputation when they throw a tantrum over a toy line of models and If they see it as snow-flaking, than I can conclude that they are not intelligent enough to warrant any farther interaction and move on with my life.

So instead of actually considering the thoughts and opinions of other, you assume they are "not intelligent enough"? Instead of actually discussing issues you instantly assume you are in the right and correct opinion? You refuse to anything you don't want, regardless of established fact of the setting, and demean people who disagree?

Do I need to say more?

If the lore says woman cant do it than I can either choose to ignore the really dubious and silly pseudo science or find a work around in the lore, which i feel iv done.

I really doubt you've done anything to dispel the years of lore supporting this. The same "psuedo science" that denies women from being Space Marines is also responsible for:
Oh. The entire 40k universe.

You can't just say "I think X is fake science!" and handwave it away. It's part of the lore. Until GW retcon it, which they are within their power to do, the lore retains X. Until GW retcon Space Marine genetics, having female Space Marines (and that's Imperium-supported, fully fledged Adeptus Astartes) is a lore impossibility.

You can say that they're possible all you like. But that's nothing more than fanon.

And trust me. If I was trying to piss people off and get under there skin id be much less amicable and friendly.

And I quote:
"I can conclude that they are not intelligent enough"
"I do relish the idea of pissing off everyone around me"
"that would require I care"

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 DizzyStorey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Why not use SM models with female heads, and use them as Count-As SoB? Hell, just call them SoB in an improved armour variant?

Eh, Mostly cause buying the signature haircutes are hard, they wont have all the emblems and I dont want to be restricted to the black and red paint job, i like the freedom that comes with space marine paint jobs and custom chapters. And if i dont paint the armor black and red, whats really left to signify them as sisters of battle.

So I guess the Order of the Argent Shroud, Valorous Heart, Sacred Rose and Bloody Rose doesn't exist? I guess they're not Sisters of Battle then.
Nor can someone make their own Order of Sisters, apparently - just like I can't make my own Space Marine Chapter - they all have to be Ultramarines, because that's what most Space Marines are painted like, and what's left to make them Space Marines without that shiny lick of Macragge Blue paint...

No. Emblems are simple to paint or transfer on, or even make your own emblem. You can make your own colour scheme, even your own minor Order of Sisters.

Space Marines are not the only faction with freedom of colour and customisation, and I'm frankly a little in disbelief that you think that - is that a common belief that only Space Marines can have customisation?

Most importantly though... aggravating people is not really a barrier for me. There are plenty of viable work arounds that make for genuinely intrigue and fun story telling potential, the rogue apothecary or thunder warrior genetics are all decent fluff ( Plus I am enamoured with the amazonian themes )

You say intrigue and fun story telling potential, someone else might see that as Snowflakism, and a blatant disregard of the established canon in pursuit of personal pleasure without consideration of others you may be playing with.

Of course, not my personal view, but I've seen it enough.

And at the end of the day Its what i am most comfortable and happy with.

And that's fine by you. However, you really haven't said what Space Marines would be that Sisters also wouldn't. And with such a touchy subject, with the actual lore of the game against you, and the very real possibility that you are nearly seeking to offend people, it's a little iffy.

Firstly I am not aware of these other orders or what they are about as far as I could see there is only one type of model for sale compared to the 4 seperate complete armies of the space marines and the 20 something other minor chapters which all get models and sale. So as far as I knew? They didnt exist.

And now you know they do. Has that not swayed you?

Second.. I dont make a habbit of letting what other people think about me influence me or be pressured to do something Ido not want to do. If they will be upset over it than its there problem not mine, its there reputation when they throw a tantrum over a toy line of models and If they see it as snow-flaking, than I can conclude that they are not intelligent enough to warrant any farther interaction and move on with my life.

So instead of actually considering the thoughts and opinions of other, you assume they are "not intelligent enough"? Instead of actually discussing issues you instantly assume you are in the right and correct opinion? You refuse to anything you don't want, regardless of established fact of the setting, and demean people who disagree?

Do I need to say more?

If the lore says woman cant do it than I can either choose to ignore the really dubious and silly pseudo science or find a work around in the lore, which i feel iv done.

I really doubt you've done anything to dispel the years of lore supporting this. The same "psuedo science" that denies women from being Space Marines is also responsible for:
Oh. The entire 40k universe.

You can't just say "I think X is fake science!" and handwave it away. It's part of the lore. Until GW retcon it, which they are within their power to do, the lore retains X. Until GW retcon Space Marine genetics, having female Space Marines (and that's Imperium-supported, fully fledged Adeptus Astartes) is a lore impossibility.

You can say that they're possible all you like. But that's nothing more than fanon.

And trust me. If I was trying to piss people off and get under there skin id be much less amicable and friendly.

And I quote:
"I can conclude that they are not intelligent enough"
"I do relish the idea of pissing off everyone around me"
"that would require I care"

No it has not swayed me cause I do not need to explain to you why I am disinterested in the sisters of battle and have absolutely no interest in doing what you tell me to just to appease a thousand crying man-children.



Oh i am sorry, i appear to have given you the impression that I care. I do not tend to respect the opinions of sexist donkey-caves in random game shops nor do I shed any tears for there outrage and childish bs. So excuse me if I conclude that they are too stupid to waste farther time debating.



So your saying the same science that can turn spit into acid and make the human body immune to radiation is simply not complex enough to get around a missing Y chromosome?
The creators "Sorry our hands are tied, the science we created says its impossible" Its as sturdy of an argument as metal gear solid saying "She has to be naked cause she breaths through her skin, do you want her to suffocate?"

I am done with this argument now and defending my decisions. This is a waste of my time and not the point of this thread. I am here to discuss unbound armies not explain myself.