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Its no secret that Forgeworld has shifted its focus from Warhammer 40k to the Horus Heresy, but what does it mean long term? Each month more & more models for 40k get discontinued while more models continue to be released for 30k. From a business perspective, this seems like an odd strategy. GW's most popular line is Warhammer 40k. I've never seen anyone play 30k in our area, or own 30k models for that matter & I play at many game stores. Many of the 30k models cannot be used in 40k, because they are relics of the dark age of technology or the forgeworld producing said technology was destroyed. With the direction the 40k lore is heading, is it safe to assume that GW plans on making 40k into 30k? Is it safe to assume the mechanicus & Belisarius Cawl have found or will find a standard template construct (STC) to justify the 3500+ & growing 30k models which will then be able to be used in 40k?

For those who do not play space marines is this the direction you would like to see the game heading?

There's really only like 200-300 30k models, and that's being very liberal with what counts as a 30k model. Most of those ridiculously high numbers are shared kits that are listed as belonging to every legion, for whatever reason. Also, please note that a lot of that number (100 or so) are really upgrade kits.

If you set up a FW search for "all models available in 30k", the number is approximately 620 results, however this inflated number is because the Horus Heresy section on the webstore contains the following.

• 40k models that are used in 30k as well
• Upgrade kits
• Many, many bundles

True "30k models" are really only a fraction of the displayed number.


EDIT: Calculator says 264 unique non-upgrade-kit models. Actual number is probably like 200.

despite not being a hit in your area, most reports show that HH minis since release have been a huge money maker for GW. As for discontinuing older models, that is likely do to the molds breaking down and GW not wanting to spring for new ones

Even if Forgeworld ignores 40k, I can't say I'm complaining. Heresy is a very good game and deserves primary attention.

It is April 1st people. April FOOLS day! I don't trust any posts today.

Fw should be dividing their attention equally to not leave old armies behind.v

Yet if you click on those links for each legion, you'll see over 90% of them are the same from legion to legion. They'll have unique legion shoulder pads, upgrade kits, specific legion dreadnoughts and terminators, and the rest is stuff like generic heavy support squads of different armor marks, assault squads, and weapons kits.

 Flanker wrote:
Yet if you click on those links for each legion, you'll see over 90% of them are the same from legion to legion. They'll have unique legion shoulder pads, upgrade kits, specific legion dreadnoughts and terminators, and the rest is stuff like generic heavy support squads of different armor marks, assault squads, and weapons kits.

Lets assume what Verviedi & yourself say is correct. That there is maybe 200 unique 30k models. How many 40k models have been released by Forgeworld in the past year? 5 years? I know for certain there have been a few Tau suits and a couple Necron models. So we are looking at a comparison of a few 40k models and literally hundreds of new 30k models. Which indicates a shift in marketing direction in a setting that the vast majority of their market base isn't invested in. Seems like an odd business strategy. There is no question that space marines are GW's most profitable product. The question is, are they the most profitable because that we have an entire game devoted to them (30K) and almost every other release in 40k is space marines?

Lets say you own a toothpaste company. You have hundreds of brands but you only advertise & improve one of them. Is it any surprise that it will sell better than your other products?

If FW's reasoning for shifting its marketing towards 30k, is because their FW line isn't selling well enough...perhaps its because many of those models rules are over a decade old and/or they have completely stopped releasing models for most armies?

in the last 2-3 year, very few stuff has been released for 40k unless it is 30k marines that can be used in 40k
The last major release I can remember might be the Eldar one, the last releases since then have been honestly different flavors of marines
Its boring, and I say that as a marine player myself

I agree that it is incredibly irritating. We were supposed to have a Tau vs. Mechanicus book last summer. Instead, it's an endless parade of Marines. Gold Marines, Spiky Marines, Space Marines.

I don't think you can draw any conclusions.

Just because GW sells 40K Space Marines more than anything else doesn't mean the same is true of FW.

Today's Top 10 sellers from Forgeworld in UK:
9 30K
1 Hobbit

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Top-10

Funny that half of those are books and Titans/Knights. But I am not really suprised, all the newer stuff has been 30k stuff, I don't expect the Elysians to top sales because they've been available for years now.

Plastic everything. Any idea how many problems with the nid hierophant would be solved if it was a plastic kit? Discontinue it all FW. Bring on the plastics.

Thing is, with 30k, Forge World is the sole supplier of them.

With the 40k stuff, the base army is sold generally by GW themselves, with the few FW exclusive armies being Elysians (who need an update), Death Korps, and the Renegades and Heretics. No other army is entirely reliant on FW for sales - except the entire 30k range.

Of course FW will support 30k most - they're the only ones supporting it. Yes, the Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero boxes are very good buy-ins from GW, but they only make Tacticals/Veterans, Terminators, Contemptor Dreadnoughts and some HQ models. No jump pack units, no Legion specific units, no bikers, no heavy support, no tanks, no superheavies, no artillery, no specialised HQ, no breachers, no flyers, etc etc.

Forge World have to provide for a full game system alone, whereas for 40k they only need to provide a few centrepiece vehicles, units, upgrade kits, etc etc. Of course their flagship series will have more to it. Given that 30k is also growing massively in popularity, this will only increase.

 Lance845 wrote:
Plastic everything. Any idea how many problems with the nid hierophant would be solved if it was a plastic kit? Discontinue it all FW. Bring on the plastics.

No thanks. Resin has way more detail than plastic and is easier to work with. Discontinue the plastic garbage, replace it with resin kits and screw the 10 year olds who can't build their tactical marines anymore.

 Lance845 wrote:
Plastic everything. Any idea how many problems with the nid hierophant would be solved if it was a plastic kit? Discontinue it all FW. Bring on the plastics.

Yeah, but since you know zilch about plastic manufacturing, your opinion doesn't count for much. Do you know how many problems you'd have trying to replicate the hierophant in plastic?

 Verviedi wrote:
I agree that it is incredibly irritating. We were supposed to have a Tau vs. Mechanicus book last summer. Instead, it's an endless parade of Marines. Gold Marines, Spiky Marines, Space Marines.

If some of the rumoured changes for 8th ed pan out, I wouldn't be surprised if the Tau vs AdMech has been purposely held back to make it more compatible.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Thing is, with 30k, Forge World is the sole supplier of them.

With the 40k stuff, the base army is sold generally by GW themselves, with the few FW exclusive armies being Elysians (who need an update), Death Korps, and the Renegades and Heretics. No other army is entirely reliant on FW for sales - except the entire 30k range.

Of course FW will support 30k most - they're the only ones supporting it. Yes, the Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero boxes are very good buy-ins from GW, but they only make Tacticals/Veterans, Terminators, Contemptor Dreadnoughts and some HQ models. No jump pack units, no Legion specific units, no bikers, no heavy support, no tanks, no superheavies, no artillery, no specialised HQ, no breachers, no flyers, etc etc.

Forge World have to provide for a full game system alone, whereas for 40k they only need to provide a few centrepiece vehicles, units, upgrade kits, etc etc. Of course their flagship series will have more to it. Given that 30k is also growing massively in popularity, this will only increase.

30K is getting all the support because it's selling, The discontinued kits aren't selling enough to support their continuation, and in a lot of cases, they're alternatives, add-ons, or niche items, like power loader sentinels or the aquilla lander, which are cool, but there is no big demand for (and how would you make a power loader or an artillery tractor, or tank hauler a 'must have? I wish Mukaali riders were still around, because those were cool, but then again, when was the last time anyone did anything with rough riders?'

 Verviedi wrote:
I agree that it is incredibly irritating. We were supposed to have a Tau vs. Mechanicus book last summer. Instead, it's an endless parade of Marines. Gold Marines, Spiky Marines, Space Marines.

To you maybe. To those of us who have grown utterly sick with 40K, it's been anything but irritating.

See my problem is that, with every new unit 30k releases for marines, 40k marines get it too.
Its creating a stupidly big skew. Dark Eldar hav 2 models and that is it. Orks are hemorrhaging models from FW and so forth.
IG are too.
I dont want 30k run off, I want actual models, but now its just "New Units that can be used in 40k now"
the next book is literally a way to shoe-horn in 30k units to two armies.

djones520 wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I agree that it is incredibly irritating. We were supposed to have a Tau vs. Mechanicus book last summer. Instead, it's an endless parade of Marines. Gold Marines, Spiky Marines, Space Marines.

To you maybe. To those of us who have grown utterly sick with 40K, it's been anything but irritating.

So... how exactly is this relevant to what I said, at all?

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I agree that it is incredibly irritating. We were supposed to have a Tau vs. Mechanicus book last summer. Instead, it's an endless parade of Marines. Gold Marines, Spiky Marines, Space Marines.

If some of the rumoured changes for 8th ed pan out, I wouldn't be surprised if the Tau vs AdMech has been purposely held back to make it more compatible.

I'll be glad if this is the case as well. If it got delayed this far, may as well delay it until 8th. I'm just annoyed it wasn't released when first stated.

Well, that was because of the fire that claimed alot of the first copies of it.
Also, if you are sick of 40k, fine, but that doesnt mean FW gets to ignore it, HH is awesome. But Y'know what they say about too much of a good thing.
I just want new stuff for IG, and tau. Maybe an Upgrade kit to the Dreadknight or maybe something that is actually interesting that isnt a varient on a marine armor
"Oh look, this marine what TWO pistols" its all nothing we have yet to see. I cant help but feel FW is running dry on ideas.

keep in mind an aweful lot of HH stuff can be used with 40k stuff easily eneugh. there are few 30K items that don;t have rules allowing for use in 40k

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well, that was because of the fire that claimed alot of the first copies of it.
Also, if you are sick of 40k, fine, but that doesnt mean FW gets to ignore it, HH is awesome. But Y'know what they say about too much of a good thing.
I just want new stuff for IG, and tau. Maybe an Upgrade kit to the Dreadknight or maybe something that is actually interesting that isnt a varient on a marine armor
"Oh look, this marine what TWO pistols" its all nothing we have yet to see. I cant help but feel FW is running dry on ideas.

I actually laughed and cried a little when Fires burned.

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind an aweful lot of HH stuff can be used with 40k stuff easily eneugh. there are few 30K items that don;t have rules allowing for use in 40k

Yeah, Only the Marine stuff currently. Which creates a stupidly big imbalance that makes it boring.

I have a hard time feeling angry at Forgeworld given that I'm 100% A Tau player, and the support for Tau on Forgeworld is almost unequaled among the non-Legion Factions, particularly if you include the Kroot under that Umbrella (and if my Avatar doesn't make it clear, I do exactly that).

Honestly, Forgeworld has released nearly as many units for the Tau as GW has.

It would feel like one of those "1st World Problems" memes if I was to complain given the fairly substantial support Tau have had over the years.

There's definitely a "Chicken and Egg" issue here, though. Are Space Marines better represented because they're more popular, or are they more popular because they're better represented?

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

There's definitely a "Chicken and Egg" issue here, though. Are Space Marines better represented because they're more popular, or are they more popular because they're better represented?

I think it's both. SM have always been the posterboy since RT days and have been in every starter kit, AFAIK.
For 40k, FW has always been around to augment the game by building massive units like titans, superheavies, upgrade sprues, and special characters here and there. The biggest difference is stuff like Elysians, Krieg, and Renegades, who are armies whose rules and all units were created and designed by FW. GW has also taken some units that were only FW before and moved them up to normal GW, like the Baneblade and, if the rumors are true, the Thunderhawk.

 Bookwrack wrote:
30K is getting all the support because it's selling, The discontinued kits aren't selling enough to support their continuation, and in a lot of cases, they're alternatives, add-ons, or niche items, like power loader sentinels or the aquilla lander, which are cool, but there is no big demand for (and how would you make a power loader or an artillery tractor, or tank hauler a 'must have? I wish Mukaali riders were still around, because those were cool, but then again, when was the last time anyone did anything with rough riders?'

Mukaali riders are a great example of what is being lost. Before they were released on Forgeworld, who knew the cavalry of the Tallarn looked so cool & unique? Its these small details that breath life into the 40k setting and slowly they are being lost forever. You raised another good point.

"When was the last time anyone did anything with rough riders?"

Rough riders are scarcely if ever used by Imperial Guard players. This is because edition after edition their rules have never been given serious consideration. What could be a very potent, useful counter assault/outflanking unit has been relegated to an auto-dismissal by most players. The same could be said for many models that have been on Forgeworld. Take the Knarlac/Kroot for example:



How cool are these guys? They look incredible. There is so much detail & imagination put into these little guys. Have you ever seen them on the tabletop? I haven't & I suspect it is for the same reason as the rough riders. Their rules prevent them from being fielded.

This is what happened to Sisters of Battle and so many other armies/units. They completely neglected to update the rules, which decline sales. Then because the sales were in a slump GW/FW said

"I guess the community isn't interested in (a)(b)(c)(d) anymore. Discontinue them."

When in reality its not because people aren't interested in these products its because they have systematically made it near impossible to field them unless the players want to auto-lose. Which leads us to where we are today. What FW is doing is a self fulfill prophecy. If all they continue to add & update is 30k/space marine models, is it any surprise that they will be the best selling products? There is a vast & interesting universe out there in the 40k setting. All I'm suggesting is that they continue to reflect it.

Here is a list of things that are gone forever:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/659902.page

Commissar Benny wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:
30K is getting all the support because it's selling, The discontinued kits aren't selling enough to support their continuation, and in a lot of cases, they're alternatives, add-ons, or niche items, like power loader sentinels or the aquilla lander, which are cool, but there is no big demand for (and how would you make a power loader or an artillery tractor, or tank hauler a 'must have? I wish Mukaali riders were still around, because those were cool, but then again, when was the last time anyone did anything with rough riders?'

Mukaali riders are a great example of what is being lost. Before they were released on Forgeworld, who knew the cavalry of the Tallarn looked so cool & unique? Its these small details that breath life into the 40k setting and slowly they are being lost forever. You raised another good point.

"When was the last time anyone did anything with rough riders?"

Rough riders are scarcely if ever used by Imperial Guard players. This is because edition after edition their rules have never been given serious consideration. What could be a very potent, useful counter assault/outflanking unit has been relegated to an auto-dismissal by most players. The same could be said for many models that have been on Forgeworld.

Mukaali are not Rough Riders. They are similar, but have different stats. And a big issie with Mukaali, like most FW supplementary units for 40k armies is that there is always the risk of your opponent not wanting to play against FW units. Taking your Rough Rider example, we're dealing with a generally sub-par unit, with models and supplementary rules that have a lot of scorn attached to them, which some people deem to be eligible to ignore. Seeing as some people think it's okay to discriminate on FW anyway, their 40k range is limited in use.

Take the Knarlac/Kroot for example:



How cool are these guys? They look incredible.

Subjective. To many, the 30k stuff is more preferable. Neither opinion is more valid than another.

There is so much detail & imagination put into these little guys. Have you ever seen them on the tabletop? I haven't & I suspect it is for the same reason as the rough riders. Their rules prevent them from being fielded.

Or because of a vendetta against FW stuff generally. This issue doesn't exist for 30k, because it solely consists of FW units and rules. FW doing 40k models can be an issue if your opponent doesn't want to fight against FW units, rightly or wrongly.

This is what happened to Sisters of Battle and so many other armies/units. They completely neglected to update the rules, which decline sales. Then because the sales were in a slump GW/FW said

"I guess the community isn't interested in (a)(b)(c)(d) anymore. Discontinue them."

When in reality its not because people aren't interested in these products its because they have systematically made it near impossible to field them unless the players want to auto-lose. Which leads us to where we are today. What FW is doing is a self fulfill prophecy. If all they continue to add & update is 30k/space marine models, is it any surprise that they will be the best selling products? There is a vast & interesting universe out there in the 40k setting. All I'm suggesting is that they continue to reflect it.

Here we have one half of the "Chicken/Egg" situation.

Alternatively, Space Marines may just have sold well anyway (which isn't unlikely, given that 30k is regarded as a more balanced system with a solid model aesthetic), so FW gives the people what they want. You're assuming that Space Marines wouldn't sell as much as they do if the faction sales balance was more equal. But what if it was the case that 30k models really are that wanted, and are the main export of FW? Wouldn't it then be a logical business venture to produce more 30k stuff?

It really is a Chicken/Egg situation - Do FW make so many Space Marines because they sell well, or do they sell well because there are so many?

Here is a list of things that are gone forever:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/659902.page

A lot of those have either been converted to plastic, or were somewhat minor conversion kits. Of the model ranges, yes, their loss is regrettable, but would their sales have matched/bettered that of the 30k range?

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Plastic everything. Any idea how many problems with the nid hierophant would be solved if it was a plastic kit? Discontinue it all FW. Bring on the plastics.

Yeah, but since you know zilch about plastic manufacturing, your opinion doesn't count for much. Do you know how many problems you'd have trying to replicate the hierophant in plastic?

There would be no unusual problems with a plastic hierophant.

The Hierophant's biggest problem is its weight, which boils down to using resin.

So it would be very easy to make a plastic hierophant work and it would require no pinning.