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Hey All,

So I have a Lasrifle section coming on the way that I had ordered, but I'm at a bit of a mental debate. I have a Veletarii Storm Section with Volkite and I'm half tempted to take the Lasrifle section I have coming in and converting them to two 10 man Rotor Cannon Veletarii Sections. Does this seem like a solid idea instead of a single Lasrifle Section? The Lasrifles do seem interesting, however the number of shots to be pumped out of the Rotor Cannon squads could be dangerous. I do have a Spare Dracosan transport as well that could carry the one squad around and keep the other in cover with a LORD MARSHAL.

What are your thoughts? Convert or no?

You've seen the stats on the Rotor Cannon, right? 30", S 3, AP 6, Salvo 3/4? Let's say you stand still, so can maximize the range and shots from your 10 models at BS 3: That's 40 shots hitting on 5+, so 13 will hit. Then 5's to wound (S3 vs. T4), so only 4 wounds. Odds are you won't even kill one Space Marine from the maximum fire power of 10 Rotor Cannons. Let's say you manage BS 4- 20 shots hit, 7 wound, one Space Marine dies on average. Even if you managed re-rolls to hit or wound, you still wouldn't manage to kill more than a couple Space Marines, and forget damaging any vehicle or anything with a high toughness (Primarchs).

You are better off sticking with the Volkite weapons. Lasrifles? Well, at least they are cheap. Wouldn't expect much from them.

Tam, your maths is a bit off bud.
40 shots at BS3 would give 20 hits.
40 at BS4 would give closer to 30.


Moral of the story is still the same though.
A S3 weapon in 30k does nothing no matter how many shots you fire.
The only time it's worth it slightly is when the rotor has bio corrosive rounds.

Stick with Las or volkite for damage output.

 Jackal wrote:
Tam, your maths is a bit off bud.
40 shots at BS3 would give 20 hits.
40 at BS4 would give closer to 30.


Moral of the story is still the same though.
A S3 weapon in 30k does nothing no matter how many shots you fire.
The only time it's worth it slightly is when the rotor has bio corrosive rounds.

Stick with Las or volkite for damage output.

Meh, yeah 1 off. BS 3 means 4,5,6 hits, or 50%, BS 4 means 3,4,5,6 hits, or 67%.
BS 3, 40 shots 20 hit, 7 wounds, 1 Space Marine fails armor save
BS 4, 40 shots, 27 hit, 9 wounds, still only 1 Space Marine fails his armor save.
Rerolls to hit or wound would add only a couple extra hits/wounds as appropriate, but doesn't change the outcome much.

In my defense, I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning. A much better probability investigation would be the standard of deviation for the shots and wounds, but again, it wouldn't change the outcome that much.

Rotor Cannons just suck in 30K.

I will echo sticking with the Las option. Especially with SA getting those nasty Blast-chargers for when someone is bold enough to get within 18". Pumping out ~20 S6 shots can do some hurt.

 Tamwulf wrote:

 Jackal wrote:
Tam, your maths is a bit off bud.
40 shots at BS3 would give 20 hits.
40 at BS4 would give closer to 30.


Moral of the story is still the same though.
A S3 weapon in 30k does nothing no matter how many shots you fire.
The only time it's worth it slightly is when the rotor has bio corrosive rounds.

Stick with Las or volkite for damage output.

Meh, yeah 1 off. BS 3 means 4,5,6 hits, or 50%, BS 4 means 3,4,5,6 hits, or 67%.
BS 3, 40 shots 20 hit, 7 wounds, 1 Space Marine fails armor save
BS 4, 40 shots, 27 hit, 9 wounds, still only 1 Space Marine fails his armor save.
Rerolls to hit or wound would add only a couple extra hits/wounds as appropriate, but doesn't change the outcome much.

In my defense, I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning. A much better probability investigation would be the standard of deviation for the shots and wounds, but again, it wouldn't change the outcome that much.

Rotor Cannons just suck in 30K.

Space Marine, not Terminator. Two fail their saves against the BS3 attack (3+ fails 1/3 of saves, 7*1/3 = 2.33), three against the BS4 attack (9*1/3 = 3).

Rotor cannons are fairly unimpressive, but if you want to be extremely funny with them you can take a few in an army with Lorgar Transfigured for reliable access to Misfortune, and kill Primarchs. (You do need forty BS4 rotor cannons to actually kill a Primarch (yes, forty guns, not forty shots); this is something to do to be funny, not to be effective.)

So yeah. Veletarii are way better off sticking with volkite weapons.

Thanks for the heads up guys.

Saves me the time and money of converting Rotor Cannons.

I may just stick the Lasrifle section in my spare dracosan and magnetize the Demo Cannon for Lascannon so when I eventually get another Veletarii squad, I can use it for each.
I've been using them behind an ADL which isn't bad (test ran them in my first game yesterday).

Next Purchases - Malcador Infernus and 2nd Veletaris Storm Sextion.

 IronMaster wrote:


Next Purchases - Malcador Infernus

I have played against the Infernus twice now. Such a nasty tank!

 IronMaster wrote:

Next Purchases - Malcador Infernus and 2nd Veletaris Storm Sextion.

Excellent choices.

Not sure if you have explored your LoW slots yet, but I keep having my eye drawn to the Stormsword. S10 AP1 10" Ignores Cover Primary Weapon sounds rather brutal. It is like the SA equivalent to the Typhon, but it can actually survive a Strength D hit... though it is only BS3 and doesn't have AV14 all around and is more expensive. Trade-offs and whatnot.

In a recent AdeptiCon tournament, I played against two different Typhons. Ignore Cover, AP1 is no fething joke!!!

Ouch!

I have a Hellhammer for my IG I was just going to use as a Baneblade for now, simply because they apparently didn't have Hellhammers in the 31st Millenium.

I also have a Macharius which unfortunately hasn't been created yet either. If I could convert it into something I would.

 IronMaster wrote:
I have a Hellhammer for my IG I was just going to use as a Baneblade for now, simply because they apparently didn't have Hellhammers in the 31st Millenium.

I also have a Macharius which unfortunately hasn't been created yet either. If I could convert it into something I would.

You can actually use models from Imperial Armour such as the Macharius. It's outlined in the Space Marine redbook on page 10. It has a list of vehicles that can be used as a Super Heavy detachment or sub-orbital strike wing.

Or you can run your Macharius as some sort of Malcador.

bogalubov wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:
I have a Hellhammer for my IG I was just going to use as a Baneblade for now, simply because they apparently didn't have Hellhammers in the 31st Millenium.

I also have a Macharius which unfortunately hasn't been created yet either. If I could convert it into something I would.

You can actually use models from Imperial Armour such as the Macharius. It's outlined in the Space Marine redbook on page 10. It has a list of vehicles that can be used as a Super Heavy detachment or sub-orbital strike wing.

Or you can run your Macharius as some sort of Malcador.

That is for Space Marines specifically, though, I believe. That provision is not in the Crusade Imperialis Red Book that I can find.

Still though, get a Stormsword! You can make it modular and run it as a Stormlord or Shadowsword too. The former is a fun transport loaded up with Flamer sections!

Yeah, the rotor cannon is a bit of a trap.
A lasrifle section puts out 40 s3 shot, as does rotor cannon veletarii. Both are effectively static if you want to do this (one loses half its range and the other half its shots if moving).

The veletarii have half the number of models - meaning they're easier to kill off and lose firepower twice as fast, plus theyr more expensive. Yes, BS4, but that's not that big a deal - maybe half a dozen hits more, tops.

It's possible household guard veletarii might be better - preferred enemy helps both to hit and to wound rolls.

other than that, I'd leave them to militia with advanced weapons. They cañ actually put out some hurt with them (although Lorgar Transfigured and 6 allied rotor cannon sections sounds hilarious)

WRT lords of war, I doubt youll find many people object to the "something odd" rule for imperial army. Rename the "Macharius" something more apt and it's hardly a devastating tank, anyway.

locarno24 wrote:
WRT lords of war, I doubt youll find many people object to the "something odd" rule for imperial army. Rename the "Macharius" something more apt and it's hardly a devastating tank, anyway.

My only fear with this is people giving me a hard time about using the Macharius as it's "obviously a Macharius Vanquisher." From my understanding many 30k-centric individuals are very critical of accuracy in representation of your army. Not that it's a bad thing per-say, but I'd rather not get huffed at as well.

 IronMaster wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
WRT lords of war, I doubt youll find many people object to the "something odd" rule for imperial army. Rename the "Macharius" something more apt and it's hardly a devastating tank, anyway.

My only fear with this is people giving me a hard time about using the Macharius as it's "obviously a Macharius Vanquisher." From my understanding many 30k-centric individuals are very critical of accuracy in representation of your army. Not that it's a bad thing per-say, but I'd rather not get huffed at as well.

Yea, it would be a tough sell to count-as anything. You could always just pick up the plastic Shadowsword/Stormlord kit and magnetize the heck out of it. It is a great kit and so worth it.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 IronMaster wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
WRT lords of war, I doubt youll find many people object to the "something odd" rule for imperial army. Rename the "Macharius" something more apt and it's hardly a devastating tank, anyway.

My only fear with this is people giving me a hard time about using the Macharius as it's "obviously a Macharius Vanquisher." From my understanding many 30k-centric individuals are very critical of accuracy in representation of your army. Not that it's a bad thing per-say, but I'd rather not get huffed at as well.

Yea, it would be a tough sell to count-as anything. You could always just pick up the plastic Shadowsword/Stormlord kit and magnetize the heck out of it. It is a great kit and so worth it.

At this point I would happily trade my build/painted Macharius for one, even if it wasn't in the greatest condition (I enjoy refurbish projects). I've used the Macharius maybe twice.

I've used vorax with enhanced targeting arrays (getting bs 5 and poison 4+ and they are still extremely weak - one or two marines will die at best. Rotor cannons are terrible.

IMO rotor cannons are only 'passable' in 2 spots: Mechanicum Poison rounds, and TS shredding rounds with their buffs to hit. BEyond that just go Lasrifle section.


With a decent army they spend the game at LD: 10, rerolling, okay saves, access to supprise S: 6 (to trick knights out in the open or to get a nice volley of wounding on 2+ against marines), great over watch, and okay defensive buffs in melee.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
I've used vorax with enhanced targeting arrays (getting bs 5 and poison 4+ and they are still extremely weak - one or two marines will die at best. Rotor cannons are terrible.

And between ETA and the bio-corrosive rounds, they get expensive fast. Sadly, they are one of the best uses of the Rotor Cannon out there. No idea why FW made such a clearly inferior weapon.