Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

CplPunishment wrote:

 redleger wrote:
If you want to understand the difference between regressive and progressive I recommend a video by Mr Rubin. A gay married man who is fed up with the left. I am sure many here hate him for speaking his mind against liberal regressiveness but I think he hits the nail on the head.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://youtu.be/O-g-sdE2Ky4 here is a good interview that basically talks about everything. He is awesome IMO. But he also lays out slot of what many have been trying to say here.

I was hoping for a written summary. My reception is terrible, this place is noisy and my phone is old so a video doesn't do much good right now.

I will attempt, probably poorly, to paraphrase. Progressive were free thinking individuals who believed in helping everyone, but mostly the people who were not treated well or oppressed. Regressives blindly label everyone in order to create a pecking order where oppressed people's are at the top of the pecking order. It's a hard party line with no room for individual thought that requires agreement with every group collective decision . Regressives ban speakers at universities that don't think exactly like them, progressives welcome open dialogue from all points of view. Regressives use words like sexist, racist, bigot to scare you to win conversations and debate when you say something they do not approve of.

Honestly, when you get home watch the vid, read about his views, I have a hard time finding people, other than hard line liberals(regressives) who can't find some form of common ground in atleast some of his views.

CplPunishment wrote:

 redleger wrote:
If you want to understand the difference between regressive and progressive I recommend a video by Mr Rubin. A gay married man who is fed up with the left. I am sure many here hate him for speaking his mind against liberal regressiveness but I think he hits the nail on the head.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://youtu.be/O-g-sdE2Ky4 here is a good interview that basically talks about everything. He is awesome IMO. But he also lays out slot of what many have been trying to say here.

I was hoping for a written summary. My reception is terrible, this place is noisy and my phone is old so a video doesn't do much good right now.

It's basically a movement that reveres the oppressed (think minorities, gays, transgenders, Muslim's, etc) and devalues people who are privileged (think straights and whites). It judges people by their membership to certain groups over the content of their character. It is somewhat of a religious movement in that it has blasphemy "laws", except instead of labelling people as "blasphemers" or "heretics" it uses labels like "Nazi", "fascist", "white supremacists", "racist", and "bigot".

This movement has been created largely by Marxist academics, and is most prevalent on college campuses (although it has infiltrated many institutions like the media and entertainment industries). Members of this movement can be found protesting if not rioting on college campuses when a conservative speaker like Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson show up for a lecture or speech. It also has a big online presence.

That's a little stab at trying to define what people mean by "regressive left" today. I'm sure others could explain it better than me. The Dave Rubin video is probably like 10,000 x better than what I just wrote.

Yes ignore my post. Jasper has it.

Jasper Wins

 jasper76 wrote:

CplPunishment wrote:

 redleger wrote:
If you want to understand the difference between regressive and progressive I recommend a video by Mr Rubin. A gay married man who is fed up with the left. I am sure many here hate him for speaking his mind against liberal regressiveness but I think he hits the nail on the head.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://youtu.be/O-g-sdE2Ky4 here is a good interview that basically talks about everything. He is awesome IMO. But he also lays out slot of what many have been trying to say here.

I was hoping for a written summary. My reception is terrible, this place is noisy and my phone is old so a video doesn't do much good right now.

It's basically a movement that reveres the oppressed (think minorities, gays, transgenders, Muslim's, etc) and devalues people who are privileged (think straights and whites). It judges people by their membership to certain groups over the content of their character. It is somewhat of a religious movement in that it has blasphemy "laws", except instead of labelling people as "blasphemers" or "heretics" it uses labels like "Nazi", "fascist", "white supremacists", "racist", and "bigot".

This movement has been created largely by Marxist academics, and is most prevalent on college campuses (although it has infiltrated many institutions like the media and entertainment industries). Members of this movement can be found protesting if not rioting on college campuses when a conservative speaker like Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson show up for a lecture or speech. It also has a big online presence.

That's a little stab at trying to define what people mean by "regressive left" today. I'm sure others could explain it better than me. The Dave Rubin video is probably like 10,000 x better than what I just wrote.

I could not have said it better myself

The "Marxist academics, and is most prevalent on college campuses" is scary - but true. Uni near me has a large twenty foot sign that reads "White People. Do Something". Hammer and sickle t shirts are common, and any protest or get together for minor events involves antifa. The local communist party and BLM oddly doesn't get along. BLM also banned a few of the members that shared membership to both parties recently as well. Red state luckily

 redleger wrote:
Yes ignore my post. Jasper has it.

Honestly I think you both did a great job articulating it for me.

Every group has it's share of lunatic fringe. If one thinks that the lunatic fringe defines the group, ie, "regressive left=liberals, or fascist=conservative", then I suggest a quick course in Critical Thinking and Common Sense 101.

 feeder wrote:
Every group has it's share of lunatic fringe. If one thinks that the lunatic fringe defines the group, ie, "regressive left=liberals, or fascist=conservative", then I suggest a quick course in Critical Thinking and Common Sense 101.

I know! Some people think Wraithknights and ScatterBikes are reasonably priced for their power! Lunacy!

CplPunishment wrote:
Are you trying to add to the discussion I was having, or just be a "Welsh valley"?

I weep at the recuperation of this expression that was as far as I know coined by ex-Muslims to refer to a real problem (i.e. “leftists” that ends up supporting Islamists and other regressive ideas out of some misguided attempt at supporting the oppressed, losing sight of who is really oppressed under Islamist ideology), and that has been turned into some kind of synonym for the very empty and very stupid “SJW” thingy.

 jasper76 wrote:
This movement has been created largely by Marxist academics

.
Red scare is still trendy in the US, apparently.
Loads of bullcrap if you ask me.

I am getting the impression that regressives are the most irrational people-pleasers within the liberal spectrum. They want to lift up the downtrodden, paying no mind when the downtrodden step on one another to make their way up the social ladder to "equality". This dynamic has produced some interesting ideals to say the least.

Don't say anything to offend the handicapped.
But if your unborn baby is likely to live with a disability, abort it to "avoid the inconvenience".

Treat homosexuals and other sexually deviant groups with the utmost respect and pander to their every whim.
But hand over the keys to the city to traditionalist Muslims who would gladly hang the aforementioned.

Talk about how women should be treated equally to men.
But disparage and blame men at every turn.

This regressive element of the liberal spectrum seems destined to disintegrate into a tribal fued.

CplPunishment wrote:
Don't say anything to offend the handicapped.
But if your unborn baby is likely to live with a disability, abort it to "avoid the inconvenience".

Seems way better than:
“Refuse welfare that would allow handicapped to live a worthwhile life
But refuse mothers of disable children the opportunity to abort”.

CplPunishment wrote:
Treat homosexuals and other sexually deviant groups with the utmost respect and pander to their every whim.
But hand over the keys to the city to traditionalist Muslims who would gladly hang the aforementioned.

And that's basically the original and only meaningful definition of the term. You deviant .
Personally, I advise refusing the keys to the city to Muslims, Christians and any spiritual deviant. I mean religious person.

CplPunishment wrote:
Talk about how women should be treated equally to men.
But disparage and blame men at every turn.

Seems way better than “Treat women like gak”.

Jasper, if you were taught only to hold doors for women, the elderly and the disabled, but you do, in fact, hold the door for everyone within a certain proximity, then that is not sexism. You are treating everyone the same (within some some small parameters). I misunderstood you to mean that you only hold the door for women, etc., and not for men at all. That, I would have had an issue with.

Most of us were raised with certain biases or cultural expectations that have not progressed well into the modern era and that continue to flavor our thinking. There's no issue in that. Acting on them can cause issues, though, which is why awareness of them is important.

My philosophy is to err on the side of kindness and sympathy. My skin is insanely thick, but that's easy for me because I am a tall, white heterosexual male.

I'm not really in a position to say what would offend others, as I am a member of the dominant social cohort. So I let those who aren't tell me what bothers them and act accordingly.

 3orangewhips wrote:
My philosophy is to err on the side of kindness and sympathy. My skin is insanely thick, but that's easy for me because I am a tall, white heterosexual male.

I'm not really in a position to say what would offend others, as I am a member of the dominant social cohort. So I let those who aren't tell me what bothers them and act accordingly.

Reasonable and well thought critical thinking? You, sir, have no place here on the intellectual morass that is the OT.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
This movement has been created largely by Marxist academics

.
Red scare is still trendy in the US, apparently.
Loads of bullcrap if you ask me.

I'm not sure what you are arguing against here. If you're arguing against the fact that there are Marxist professors and acolytes pushing this agenda, there's no real argument to be had. These people exist all over college campuses. They do not hide the fact that they are Marxist, and they do not hide the fact that they push what is being termed here the "regressive left" agenda. To the contrary, they are proud of these things and quite open about it all.

 jasper76 wrote:
If you're arguing against the fact that there are Marxist professors and acolytes pushing this agenda

I am. Or, rather, that they represent more than a tiny fraction of Marxist academics, or more than a tiny fraction of what you call the “regressive left” because you decided to feth up a previously perfectly valid expression.

CplPunishment wrote:
I am getting the impression that regressives are the most irrational people-pleasers within the liberal spectrum. They want to lift up the downtrodden, paying no mind when the downtrodden step on one another to make their way up the social ladder to "equality". This dynamic has produced some interesting ideals to say the least.

Don't say anything to offend the handicapped.
But if your unborn baby is likely to live with a disability, abort it to "avoid the inconvenience".

Treat homosexuals and other sexually deviant groups with the utmost respect and pander to their every whim.
But hand over the keys to the city to traditionalist Muslims who would gladly hang the aforementioned.

Talk about how women should be treated equally to men.
But disparage and blame men at every turn.

This regressive element of the liberal spectrum seems destined to disintegrate into a tribal fued.

Two things about the regressive to keep in mind. A) They are typically well-meaning, and actually think they are doing the right thing. B). They are quite happy to eat their own. Hence the pattern of public shaming as a "racist" or "fascist" against perceived offenders of the orthodoxy, followed by public repentance on the part of the offender, which happens over and over again.

See the latest kerfuffle over the Kendall Jenner Pepsi ad for the most recent high-profile example that comes to mind.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I see you chose to ignore the important part of my message to focus on the jape.

Yeah, I'm kind of tired of the argument to be honest. You feel that holding the door open for women is sexist, and I don't agree. We can go back and forth ad nauseum about it, but why bother?

Amen to that - and EXALTED!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
If you're arguing against the fact that there are Marxist professors and acolytes pushing this agenda

I am. Or, rather, that they represent more than a tiny fraction of Marxist academics, or more than a tiny fraction of what you call the “regressive left” because you decided to feth up a previously perfectly valid expression.

I didn't invent the term or it's present usage. It has caught on, as terms tend to do.

Perhaps in French universities, there aren't so many Marxist professors pushing this agenda. Here in the US, they are everywhere, and as I said, they do not hide, but rather are quite proud about who they are and the agenda they promote.

 jasper76 wrote:
Here in the US, they are everywhere, and as I said, they do not hide, but rather are quite proud about who they are and the agenda they promote.

So you would be able to show me some, I'm sure.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Here in the US, they are everywhere, and as I said, they do not hide, but rather are quite proud about who they are and the agenda they promote.

So you would be able to show me some, I'm sure.

Google, my friend.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Here in the US, they are everywhere, and as I said, they do not hide, but rather are quite proud about who they are and the agenda they promote.

So you would be able to show me some, I'm sure.

Google, my friend.

A) cute answer to someone asking for evidence B) they may be everywhere, but it's certainly not the epidemic a lot of people paint it as. I'm seeing a lot of this "leftist" prograganda and really it's only in certain areas. Where I live and went to school is still HEAVILY right wing/conservative. So taking the US as a whole, it's still about a 50/50 leftist vs. rightwing population, as the most recent election showed

OK, so as not to be cute, I'll produce an example (and be accused of finding the "worst of the worst").

Here is the response of one professor to Gavin McInnes giving a speech, I believe at NYU:

NSFW:






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:
B) they may be everywhere, but it's certainly not the epidemic a lot of people paint it as. I'm seeing a lot of this "leftist" prograganda and really it's only in certain areas. Where I live and went to school is still HEAVILY right wing/conservative. So taking the US as a whole, it's still about a 50/50 leftist vs. rightwing population, as the most recent election showed

I'm happy to concede this point.

Yeah, I'm kind of tired of the argument to be honest. You feel that holding the door open for women is sexist, and I don't agree. We can go back and forth ad nauseum about it, but why bother?

I'll go with it. I hold the door open for women more than men. Is it sexist? I hope so. When I was growing up, if you didn't it was proof of the fact you were white trash raised in a barn.

 jasper76 wrote:
OK, so as not to be cute, I'll produce an example (and be accused of finding the "worst of the worst").

Here is the response of one professor to Gavin McInnes giving a speech, I believe at NYU:

NSFW:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:
B) they may be everywhere, but it's certainly not the epidemic a lot of people paint it as. I'm seeing a lot of this "leftist" prograganda and really it's only in certain areas. Where I live and went to school is still HEAVILY right wing/conservative. So taking the US as a whole, it's still about a 50/50 leftist vs. rightwing population, as the most recent election showed

I'm happy to concede this point.

I would not concede this point so quickly. Examples of "regressive leftists" include Glenn Greenwald, Reza Aslan, Abby Martin, Cenk Uygur, Chris Hedges, CJ Werlemann and several others. Now all you have to do is look at the following, and the amount of attention they get in the media to know that liberal progressive media has definitely changed course. Its why so many people are fed up with the media, its getting harder and harder to find someone who just tells it like it is, instead of offering agenda based news.

Its almost impossible at this point. I find myself relying on BBC for non business related news. Everyone else has a pretty appraent agenda in some form or another.

 redleger wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
OK, so as not to be cute, I'll produce an example (and be accused of finding the "worst of the worst").

Here is the response of one professor to Gavin McInnes giving a speech, I believe at NYU:

NSFW:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:
B) they may be everywhere, but it's certainly not the epidemic a lot of people paint it as. I'm seeing a lot of this "leftist" prograganda and really it's only in certain areas. Where I live and went to school is still HEAVILY right wing/conservative. So taking the US as a whole, it's still about a 50/50 leftist vs. rightwing population, as the most recent election showed

I'm happy to concede this point.

I would not concede this point so quickly. Examples of "regressive leftists" include Glenn Greenwald, Reza Aslan, Abby Martin, Cenk Uygur, Chris Hedges, CJ Werlemann and several others. Now all you have to do is look at the following, and the amount of attention they get in the media to know that liberal progressive media has definitely changed course. Its why so many people are fed up with the media, its getting harder and harder to find someone who just tells it like it is, instead of offering agenda based news.

Just read a piece from Huffpo and a piece from Fox on the same story. The truth will be pretty much in the middle.

 feeder wrote:

 redleger wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
OK, so as not to be cute, I'll produce an example (and be accused of finding the "worst of the worst").

Here is the response of one professor to Gavin McInnes giving a speech, I believe at NYU:

NSFW:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:
B) they may be everywhere, but it's certainly not the epidemic a lot of people paint it as. I'm seeing a lot of this "leftist" prograganda and really it's only in certain areas. Where I live and went to school is still HEAVILY right wing/conservative. So taking the US as a whole, it's still about a 50/50 leftist vs. rightwing population, as the most recent election showed

I'm happy to concede this point.

I would not concede this point so quickly. Examples of "regressive leftists" include Glenn Greenwald, Reza Aslan, Abby Martin, Cenk Uygur, Chris Hedges, CJ Werlemann and several others. Now all you have to do is look at the following, and the amount of attention they get in the media to know that liberal progressive media has definitely changed course. Its why so many people are fed up with the media, its getting harder and harder to find someone who just tells it like it is, instead of offering agenda based news.

Just read a piece from Huffpo and a piece from Fox on the same story. The truth will be pretty much in the middle.

I don't disagree, But the point is, regressiveness is not as quaint a movement as some would have you believe, otherwise it woudl not have the root it has. Look at this forum. " I don't want to accidentally offend anyone" I read that as I don't wanna be labeled a bad word. That is the impact regressiveness is having, and it is no small things. Of course the same is true of the opposite spectrum, but they are shooting them selves in the foot bowing down to regressiveness instead of fighting it.And because of this, neither side has my respect.

It is possible not to want to offend others because one actually care's about other people.

It kind of sucks that the most visible public people taking a stand against this movement are unsavory professional trolls like Gavin McInnes and MIlo Yiannoppolous, or else ultra-conservatives like Ben Shapiro. It's too easy for the regressives to dismiss if it comes from the wrong messenger.

That's why people like Dave Rubin are so important. They are criticizing the left from within the left. Of course, I suppose its just as easy for regressives to dismiss folks like Dave Rubin as a wolves in sheep's clothing, or else convince themselves that they're really just conservatives pretending to be liberals.

 redleger wrote:

I would not concede this point so quickly. Examples of "regressive leftists" include Glenn Greenwald, Reza Aslan, Abby Martin, Cenk Uygur, Chris Hedges, CJ Werlemann and several others. Now all you have to do is look at the following, and the amount of attention they get in the media to know that liberal progressive media has definitely changed course. Its why so many people are fed up with the media, its getting harder and harder to find someone who just tells it like it is, instead of offering agenda based news.

Tells it like it is? Really? Sinking to Trump talk? Sure, there are examples of regressive leftists, the same way that members of the KKK and neo-nazi organizations support the right. My point was more don't be so quick label one side with a broad brush, when the same can be said of your side.