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Or just the guy that takes the game WAY too seriously and win at ALL costs. Hey, it is a game, you should have fun and you can still have fun even if you lose. Don't rub my bloody nose in it.

Way back in my HackMaster tournament days, we had an event at a (somewhat) local game store. There were 20 players and 4 or 5 GMs. This one dude kept walking from table to table with his hands in his pocket. WAY in his pockets. Many people brought miniatures, as this was a table top RPG event.

He would ask to see people's minis, and several of us obliged. But then he started getting specific. Do you have any female minis? Like female barbarians or slave girls, and seemed to prefer the ones with the least cloths. He'd rub his hand that was WAY in his pocket.

"feth off, we're playing a game", said Kronk, and he left my table alone. We told the owner about him, and he said "yeah, that guy is creepy. He buys a lot, though." Dude was arrested for trying to solicit sex from a teen boy at the store some months later and the dad called the cops on him.

Maybe I've been lucky in my 40k career, but most of the above behaviors (other than an occasionally smelly dude) I haven't experienced.

Other than the no codex thing. What's common with me is people who have a pirated PDF on their phone, who are relatively new.

And, you know, I get it. The codexes are kind of expensive, and a new player may want to cut costs by getting a PDF codex.

And I also get it, there's a lot of rules for a new player, and I don't expect them to memorize their codex for their first game.

But holy DAMN I hate watching people thumb through a 4" phone screen looking for some rule clarification.

Necron player at our store late 30's maybe early 40s, used a stack of styrofoam cups as his monolith. Kind of an eye roll moment but claimed he was just starting out so whatever, but never actually got around to buying one and was still trying to do this six months later. Necrons were the only army he played so it's not like he was spread thin over multiple armies. Also used a pair of empty butter tubs as his barges and never had his codex on him to verify any of rules which he made up on the spot. Somehow he was at a loss as to why people eventually stopped agreeing to play against him.

Another guy was constantly moving his units while measuring front to back of the base, but was Johnny on the Spot with laser like precision when it came to his opponents moving even 1mm too far. He'd scream bloody murder that he was being cheated against but if you back tracked and measured the maximum distance he was always 3-4 inches beyond what he legally could have moved, which was always dismissed as an accident or the turn count being wrong etc. Guy would also move units around if you had to take a bathroom break so that stuff would be out of firing range or just within charge range for his stuff. He'd act innocent about it but everyone knew it was a bold faced lie and people would even call him on it using pics from their phones. He got kicked out for a couple months after one of his opponents filmed him from around the corner moving units. The guy was both incredibly stupid and a constant cheat.

Then there was Mr Roll & Scoop an ork player who'd roll his dice and collect them as fast as possible then spout of incredibly good results which could never be verified. He had the adding speed of a super computer. Other tactics included dice droppping, rolling dice behind terrain where they weren't visible, covering them with his hands, and turning dice so they'd switch to another (successful) number. When forced to roll in plain view his lucky streak would suddenly be less than stellar, imagine that. He also had a serious case of BO from not showering and his breath was even worse. I'm not sure if he didn't brush or if he had some medical issue going on but it was enough to blister paint when he spoke directly at you.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
10- The Guy that paid double for a professionally painted army, because he can't paint- and talks trash about how bad other peoples' armies look.

oh no

I know a guy

 MDSW wrote:
Or just the guy that takes the game WAY too seriously and win at ALL costs. Hey, it is a game, you should have fun and you can still have fun even if you lose. Don't rub my bloody nose in it.

When I played 40k I would take meme lists against players who power gamed every game as if it was the NOVA as bait for them to use a more diverse army. It actually worked. In Warmachine? No such luck in my Grayle/Mohsar Circle lists

I experienced a #7 but of the non-TFG flavor.

We were doing a big 2500 point game and he brought the massive CSM walker formation against my Mech WS list. Bottom of turn 3 I decided to call it quits because he was stomping me in every part of the board except one spot where a single Ironclad dreadnaught managed to punch through 2 Maulerfiends, half a dozen Chaos Terminators and a Helbrute. He persuaded me to play another turn where my lone Ironclad lost its final HP to a meltabomb.

 Orlanth wrote:
Not owning the codex is forgivable. Some people game on a budget and some Codexes are not only expensive but replaced by constant supplement changes. I stopped bothering buying Codexes because there was no longevity or stability to the investment.

Its easy to make a list online, and a GW store will allow use of shop copy.

Just so we're clear, no. GW stores are not supposed to allow use of shop copies for playing games.

They might make an exception for someone just starting out or something like that or the manager might feel generous, but they aren't supposed to do that.

 Blackie wrote:
What's the problem about playing against someone that doesn't have the codex? Do you need to check any single rule or stats because you fear that opponent want to cheat? I never use my codexes or rulebook when I play, I can't stand players that always double check, making the game extremely long.

I don't know every army in 40k, or every special rule. I don't have every Warlord Trait memorized, either. No codex, no game. I don't care if you've got it nearby and don't have to reference it, but I've had quite a few people try to pull some little stunt where they think I'm new (I move around a lot) and try to pull some fast ones on me. When you've got people telling you that Necrons are getting a 2+ Reanimation Protocol, or some other fast one- I tend to start asking to see the rule.

I'm not a Nazi about the rules, mistakes are often made- but I take a personal grudge against people who cheat for no reason in a game about little plastic toys. And yes, there are guys that will cheat to win for no reason at all, and that's simply idiotic. I like to know exactly who these people are so I can ridicule and shun them into oblivion.

Call it being a jerk on my part, but when you've seen these guy cheat little kids... or worse, attempt to cheat in tournaments... it tends to get under your skin.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That guy that is just always complaining about the other people at the FLGS, rather than just trying to enjoy the game.

Unfortunately, I can't be the guy that's always playing at the FLGS, especially since it's a half hour away... So yeah, I do other stuff like complain.

Had a 750 point beginner tournament, meant to generate more interest in the community. Many had armies strait out of dark vengeance and the like. Dude shows up from a near by town(chair force dude) and brings a knight and the dude who can repair the knight. Almost no one had the ability to deal with it at 750 points of beginner army. The TO figured locally no one would be a dick, but didn't account for this guy. No rule against it, so it played, he won and half those people were never seen again. Unfortunate.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Not owning the codex is forgivable. Some people game on a budget and some Codexes are not only expensive but replaced by constant supplement changes. I stopped bothering buying Codexes because there was no longevity or stability to the investment.

Its easy to make a list online, and a GW store will allow use of shop copy.

Just so we're clear, no. GW stores are not supposed to allow use of shop copies for playing games.

They might make an exception for someone just starting out or something like that or the manager might feel generous, but they aren't supposed to do that.

The majority of my LGW's codices are shrink-wrapped, and the general policy is that if a book isn't shrink-wrapped you can gently flip through it for a couple minutes while deciding whether to buy or not.

 redleger wrote:
Had a 750 point beginner tournament, meant to generate more interest in the community. Many had armies strait out of dark vengeance and the like. Dude shows up from a near by town(chair force dude) and brings a knight and the dude who can repair the knight. Almost no one had the ability to deal with it at 750 points of beginner army. The TO figured locally no one would be a dick, but didn't account for this guy. No rule against it, so it played, he won and half those people were never seen again. Unfortunate.

I experienced something similar. Tourney rules were don't be a d-bag and prizes were by raffle so no reason to be a d-bag in a friendly tourney.

Not one Eldar player could stop themself. 750pts and their is a WK stomping around with jetbike spam armies. Oh, well they won nothing lol.

Bonus points, the WK guy tried to enter a model in the best painted contest that he clearly paid to have painted.

I had one:

Mr. "Show me the FAQ or you're cheating". Now, this doesn't sound so bad, except how he implemented it. He would insist on being shown a FAQ for something that EVERYONE new by heart and had been playing with for weeks or months.

One of my favorites: For those that didn't know, in early 3rd edition terminators did NOT have an invulnerable save. It was originally FAQed in a white dwarf article. In late 2001 he insisted a marine player couldn't have invulnerable saves unless he produced that FAQ.

Of course, if he didn't have the FAQ you just needed to trust him. He's the reason I had EVERY Faq (Forgeworld included) printed out and updated regularly and kept in a binder.

I remember one not from Warhammer, but somehow ten times more despicable, although I did not encounter him. My friend did.

It was a MTG tournament and it was the final round. My friend went up against this guy who has one of those "cost 1000 dollars, has four copies of the most expensive cards" type decks. The Match goes for 3 games and my friend barely wins the last match. The opponent says good game and asks to see my friend's deck to see how it was made. My friend obliges and hands it over (it's actually part of tournament rules that the opponent has a right to verify cards in your deck or something). The dude looks over and hands it back

During the awards, the same guy rises up and shouts "HE CHEATED!" and claimed that my friend's deck had only 59 cards, one less than legal. The judges then count his cards and, sure enough, my friend only had 59 cards and was disqualified from the tournament. My friend insisted he had 60 cards when he started but the judges wouldn't hear of it. They handed the prize over to the other guy and everyone left.

After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck. Turns out when the guy asked to see the deck, he slipped one of the cards into his sleeve. My friend alerted the judges but since there was no video proof of it and the guy already left with the prize, there was nothing they could do. What surprised my friend was that not only did the judge believe on him on the spot, but they've seen it done before (although not necessarily by the same guy). My friend has since always kept 61 cards in his deck and always sits down and count out his cards before each match and after letting people see it.

As for "the guy", he hasn't been seen since.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck.

Oh... holy crap. We keep finding random cards in the trash cans and in the parking at our FLGS. Not 'junk cards', either. And our winners are constantly being 'disqualified'... this might be happening at my FLGS! We have one dude that keeps winning 1/2/3 place by technicality, and he's a pretty sleazy looking dude and always wears a baggy long-sleeve shirt.

I didn't know that 'card count' was a thing because my experience with M:tG was 'Hey bro let's buy this two-deck pack from Wal-Mart and play with it while we drink beer or something'.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Had a 750 point beginner tournament, meant to generate more interest in the community. Many had armies strait out of dark vengeance and the like. Dude shows up from a near by town(chair force dude) and brings a knight and the dude who can repair the knight. Almost no one had the ability to deal with it at 750 points of beginner army. The TO figured locally no one would be a dick, but didn't account for this guy. No rule against it, so it played, he won and half those people were never seen again. Unfortunate.

I experienced something similar. Tourney rules were don't be a d-bag and prizes were by raffle so no reason to be a d-bag in a friendly tourney.

Not one Eldar player could stop themself. 750pts and their is a WK stomping around with jetbike spam armies. Oh, well they won nothing lol.

Bonus points, the WK guy tried to enter a model in the best painted contest that he clearly paid to have painted.

Story from some of my friends at the local shop, actually is one of the people I've already mentioned/covered in my own experience...

Anyhow, 750 tourney in the shop. Super friendly, the "prize" was basically "give a model/unit to the manager and he'll paint it for ya" sort of thing. At some point in the afternoon, before lunch someone points out that this dude's Tau list is running at about 1100 points (near as he can tell, since what the dude says changes from turn to turn to turn) and lo and behold, dude right before lunch says, "I got a phone call, so I have to head out and leave"

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck.

Oh... holy crap. We keep finding random cards in the trash cans and in the parking at our FLGS. Not 'junk cards', either. And our winners are constantly being 'disqualified'... this might be happening at my FLGS! We have one dude that keeps winning 1/2/3 place by technicality, and he's a pretty sleazy looking dude and always wears a baggy long-sleeve shirt.

I didn't know that 'card count' was a thing because my experience with M:tG was 'Hey bro let's buy this two-deck pack from Wal-Mart and play with it while we drink beer or something'.

The intent of the Card Count was so that you wouldn't have a disproportionate advantage by bringing, say, 40 cards instead of 60 cards, as 40 cards will result in far too much consistency so the game turns into basically a rock paper scissor match instead of one of resource and risk management.

The reason it's so unforgiving is because entire books have been written on the subject for high level play and entire math equations have been made to maximize even one less card in your deck. (There are cards that legally do this, the two most infamous ones are Gitaxian Probe and Street Wraith as both of them do not require mana to use their effects and their effects makes you draw one card, essentially allowing you to immediately replace either Probe or Wraith for another card in your deck by tossing it into the grave).

High level MTG play is a place I despise, and 1/2 of the reason I never participate in tournaments. These people will do anything to win and even when they don't resort to underhanded tactics they still suck the fun out of the game by essentially treating it as a sequence of computer programs and a flow chart instead of, you know, a game.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Not owning the codex is forgivable. Some people game on a budget and some Codexes are not only expensive but replaced by constant supplement changes. I stopped bothering buying Codexes because there was no longevity or stability to the investment.

Its easy to make a list online, and a GW store will allow use of shop copy.

Just so we're clear, no. GW stores are not supposed to allow use of shop copies for playing games.

They might make an exception for someone just starting out or something like that or the manager might feel generous, but they aren't supposed to do that.

The majority of my LGW's codices are shrink-wrapped, and the general policy is that if a book isn't shrink-wrapped you can gently flip through it for a couple minutes while deciding whether to buy or not.

Yeah, the GW shops are given a copy of the codex to use as the "store copy".

They got no problem with letting you flip through it or anything. It's just not supposed to be something you can game or write a list with.

Some of this is why I don't play at a LGS, or with random people in general. I've never played a tabletop game with anyone I don't know. And I only play with people who don't play tabletop games. What this means is i'm always the guy explaining and teaching. It can be a hassle, but I don't know whats worse...the stuff in the OP or having to drink water cause i've had to restate the same rules over again.

I don't consider 40k a casual game, so i'd never play it with anyone. I might consider a friendly round of X wing or AoS with someone at a local store though.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had one:

Mr. "Show me the FAQ or you're cheating". Now, this doesn't sound so bad, except how he implemented it. He would insist on being shown a FAQ for something that EVERYONE new by heart and had been playing with for weeks or months.

One of my favorites: For those that didn't know, in early 3rd edition terminators did NOT have an invulnerable save. It was originally FAQed in a white dwarf article. In late 2001 he insisted a marine player couldn't have invulnerable saves unless he produced that FAQ.

Of course, if he didn't have the FAQ you just needed to trust him. He's the reason I had EVERY Faq (Forgeworld included) printed out and updated regularly and kept in a binder.

Why play him. The moment he popped that I would have packed up and impolitely told him to go F himself.

 Frazzled wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had one:

Mr. "Show me the FAQ or you're cheating". Now, this doesn't sound so bad, except how he implemented it. He would insist on being shown a FAQ for something that EVERYONE new by heart and had been playing with for weeks or months.

One of my favorites: For those that didn't know, in early 3rd edition terminators did NOT have an invulnerable save. It was originally FAQed in a white dwarf article. In late 2001 he insisted a marine player couldn't have invulnerable saves unless he produced that FAQ.

Of course, if he didn't have the FAQ you just needed to trust him. He's the reason I had EVERY Faq (Forgeworld included) printed out and updated regularly and kept in a binder.

Why play him. The moment he popped that I would have packed up and impolitely told him to go F himself.

He was buddy-buddy with the guys that were "leaders" of the local gaming store 40k gaming night. Keeping my FAQ binder up to date was less problematic than having those guys turn against me.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I remember one not from Warhammer, but somehow ten times more despicable, although I did not encounter him. My friend did.

It was a MTG tournament and it was the final round. My friend went up against this guy who has one of those "cost 1000 dollars, has four copies of the most expensive cards" type decks. The Match goes for 3 games and my friend barely wins the last match. The opponent says good game and asks to see my friend's deck to see how it was made. My friend obliges and hands it over (it's actually part of tournament rules that the opponent has a right to verify cards in your deck or something). The dude looks over and hands it back

During the awards, the same guy rises up and shouts "HE CHEATED!" and claimed that my friend's deck had only 59 cards, one less than legal. The judges then count his cards and, sure enough, my friend only had 59 cards and was disqualified from the tournament. My friend insisted he had 60 cards when he started but the judges wouldn't hear of it. They handed the prize over to the other guy and everyone left.

After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck. Turns out when the guy asked to see the deck, he slipped one of the cards into his sleeve. My friend alerted the judges but since there was no video proof of it and the guy already left with the prize, there was nothing they could do. What surprised my friend was that not only did the judge believe on him on the spot, but they've seen it done before (although not necessarily by the same guy). My friend has since always kept 61 cards in his deck and always sits down and count out his cards before each match and after letting people see it.

As for "the guy", he hasn't been seen since.

I nearly started seeing red after reading this. If it had happened to me, I'd have tried to find out where the guy lives or works and, if successful, would have probably done something REALLY stupid. Like slashing his car's tires or throwing a brick (or maybe a Molotov cocktail?) through his windows kind of stupid. I hope someone catches that guy cheating like that and gives him what he deserves.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I nearly started seeing red after reading this. If it had happened to me, I'd have tried to find out where the guy lives or works and, if successful, would have probably done something REALLY stupid. Like slashing his car's tires or throwing a brick (or maybe a Molotov cocktail?) through his windows kind of stupid. I hope someone catches that guy cheating like that and gives him what he deserves.

Dude, it's a card game.

You don't smash his windshield or torch his ride over this.

Keep in mind a vehicle counts as an extension of the home, and in some places this will get you shot because of the Castle Doctrine. So good luck explaining to the cops that you got shot for torching a guy's car at his house because he cheated in a card game about magic monsters.

You don't deal with cheaters like this. Because you look like a sore loser that goes and gets violent when you don't win. You deal with cheaters by ratting them out to not just your FLGS- but every single one you can find. You get evidence and smear them through the community.

If that makes you see red, never look up those stories about people trying to scam others for rare cards in trades. The only good news about that is generally the store manager would step in if alerted to a scammer and kick him out, since stores are also a common avenue for people to come and trade, so having a scammer on site is a detriment to the store's own reputation and quite often gets a swift response (usually in the form of a metaphorical boot to the ass. Physical boot if the guy is being unruly). The store doesn't lose out much from booting the guy either since these guys usually don't buy stuff at those stores (if they did, they wouldn't be trying to scam people for much rarer cards) and drive away more legitimate business.

How does collecting M:tG keep having this massive market for 'rares' and 'trades'? As I've seen, all the kids do is shoplift the hell out of card decks at Wal-Mart.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I nearly started seeing red after reading this. If it had happened to me, I'd have tried to find out where the guy lives or works and, if successful, would have probably done something REALLY stupid. Like slashing his car's tires or throwing a brick (or maybe a Molotov cocktail?) through his windows kind of stupid. I hope someone catches that guy cheating like that and gives him what he deserves.

Dude, it's a card game.

You don't smash his windshield or torch his ride over this.

Keep in mind a vehicle counts as an extension of the home, and in some places this will get you shot because of the Castle Doctrine. So good luck explaining to the cops that you got shot for torching a guy's car at his house because he cheated in a card game about magic monsters.

You don't deal with cheaters like this. Because you look like a sore loser that goes and gets violent when you don't win. You deal with cheaters by ratting them out to not just your FLGS- but every single one you can find. You get evidence and smear them through the community.

You're right of course. I apologize for posting what I did. Under normal circumstances I don't approve of violence. Let this be a lesson: don't post on forums shortly after getting home late at night after a bad day at work. I apologize if I offended anyone. It still really grinds my gears that the turd nugget in question got away with stealing and cheating. But I agree that destroying someone's car over it would be...extreme.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
You're right of course. I apologize for posting what I did. Under normal circumstances I don't approve of violence. Let this be a lesson: don't post on forums shortly after getting home late at night after a bad day at work. I apologize if I offended anyone. It still really grinds my gears that the turd nugget in question got away with stealing and cheating. But I agree that destroying someone's car over it would be...extreme.

No worries. We all get passionate.

Cheating and stealing are more common than you think. I get called a 'jerk', because the first thing I do when I go to the FLGS is see how many kids there are. If there's a ton of kids, I don't go there. I've had plenty of kids try to steal stuff from me or my friends, and in military towns some of their little brats tend to be more willing to act out and be little hoodlums for nothing more than the sake of being hoodlums. In the last place I lived, we had this little fat kid and his buddies that went around yanking models out of peoples' boxes. When there's about 8 good players in a wargaming room, and we all have to put padlocks on our bags and boxes- something is wrong.

We beat this kid by simply catching him in the act, and letting the store owner ban him and his friends. The store owner then called every single store in town (fancy that, all these stores generally talk to each other). This kid had to quit playing his Yi-gi-oh games entirely, because even tournament organizers outside of the stores found out about him and banned him. Comically enough, his father returned from deployment and was FURIOUS- so he had this kid going around in a shirt and tie, making personal apologies to everyone that played in the gaming community, and was sweeping the parking lots at the game shops.

There's a guy I stopped playing against here locally because he simply cannot behave himself, and insists on cheating. He cannot bare to lose, even a friendly game. Games that are as chill as, "Hey, dude- can you help me try out my formation?" turn into him twisting rules or making up rules, or having him just flat-out cheat to win. He's gone as far as fudging an extra 250 points into lists in order to win.

We caught this guy by snapping pictures of his lists and armies on the table when he was taking a piss, and recording his little tantrums. Fun fact- most of our tournament organizers aren't people who work at the store, so they can refuse to allow anyone they want. And when all the store owners saw how much profanity he spewed and how mean he got about losing, he was barred from playing at all the stores. The comical thing about this is that it actually reached every store in about an hour's drive from here. Eventually, we found his models on eBay and Craigslist.

You fight these guys the smart way- by taking away what they love... their ability to enjoy their hobby. That's harsh, more harsh that destroying their property. Property can be replaced. None of these guys will be gaming for a long, long time. At least not until they move somewhere else.

And to be truthful, I once considered running a blog that shamed people like this- with evidence of their behavior, of course. I'd even allow them to contest the claim if they wanted.

If you have to steal things to get what you want, you don't deserve them. If you have to win- to the extent you have to cheat- to enjoy a game, you are not enjoying the game. Anyone who does either of these things isn't just a lousy gamer, they're the kind of person that keeps gamers in a bad light.

Cheaters, bullies, shrieking harpies with an outrage fetish, thieves, stinky-dirties, and all-around scumlords.... these sorts of people tend to thrive in gaming communities, because for some reason we gamers as a community lack the testicular fortitude to boot them and shun them. These sorts don't thrive in other groups, that's why many of them tend to gravitate toward us. And we're gaming geeks... we're not a gun collector's association, we're not a veteran's club, we're not bikers, we're not a sports and fitness group- we're not made of badasses and tough guys. That's why we have to be smart about how we deal with people.

MtG has a huge tournament scene with actual cash prizes (substantial ones), and entry into the bigger tournaments requires you to do good in a lesser tournament, and there are a lot of levels all they way down to the "casual" ones at local game stores. Hence why this dickish behaviour shows up in all levels of competitive play in that game.

For the record, the one my friend went to had a cash prize of 1000 bucks or so along with some game swag, which partially explains why that guy was willing to cheat like that (doesn't excuse it in the slightest, but at least gives him some motivation). I'm willing to bet that if 40k or AoS started having sanctioned tournaments with substantial prizes and player tracking, we'd start seeing the same underhanded tactics showing up.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'm willing to bet that if 40k or AoS started having sanctioned tournaments with substantial prizes and player tracking, we'd start seeing the same underhanded tactics showing up.

We had a 40k tournament recently. The winner used his cash prize to buy everyone pizza.

I've no doubt this is the exception and not the norm, but the thing about 40k is we're a bit better at shoving out the scummier people.

If we had global player tracking and player histories, as well as people making a living off of it, then it might get far less gentlemanly than it is now (imagine if the arguments in YMDC became commonplace in real life).

On that subject, I guess there is a small bit of happiness to my friend's story. They did record down his player account and made a note of it for future incidents. However, again, as no solid evidence could be found they couldn't actually do anything about this incident. Again, he never showed up to further events, so it's assumed that he either realized he was almost caught and cut his losses, or acted up somewhere else and was booted from major events.

Oh, I got one.

So, a few friends of mine noticed a trend at our FLGS- people tend to get a bit... loud. Obnoxious. There's children climbing all over everyone.

So we decided that one day we would have a casual game day at a store down the road. A basic 'tournament', with the 'prize' being that the winner didn't have to put down for pizza and beer that night afterward. We wanted it to be fun, friendly, and relaxed- more focused on bringing our best players in to teach our newer players what they can do better, and how they can maximize the potential for things in their army- with a little part-swapping here and there to help some guys out.

Now, we have some... competitive guys that frequent our main gaming store.

A little background on our 'competitive' guys: These are the dudes that criticize everyone's paint job, when they're paying one professional to do all of theirs (they buy his models, he paints theirs). These are the guys that joined an escalation league aimed at new players and people starting new armies with the same Death Star armies they've had since they started coming to the store, and pretty much blasted through the entire league with tailored lists (they knew who had what and changed their stuff out between games on different days of the weekend). They got so out of hand with their powergaming, that the store explicitly made a rule stating that they can't play a game at the store without asking an employee for permission.

So these dudes found out about our little friendly game, and immediately started asking if they could get in on it. We told them it was private, and it was for us, and we had a full bracket already.

The day we went to play, these guys had taken every table up with their little buddies playing Kill-Team, Infinity, Blood Bowl, etc- and sat on those tables all day to keep us off. One of them finally said he could clear off some tables if we let him and some of his friends join.

We took our models to one guy's house and just rotated out using his personal gaming table, and everyone drank and chilled out.