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 Humble Guardsman wrote:


The UK and US, when compared to France, has been extremely successful in preventing these attacks. In part due to somewhat draconian anti-terror laws. If you honestly think that these laws exist completely without justification or that the threat they purport to prevent is completely imaginary... well that's just a foolish line of thought. Certainly these governments come to like this increasing power they enjoy, but they are not fabricating an Islamic-terrorist threat from scratch to justify it.

As to your argument that you're more likely to be killed by anything or anyone else in your daily life than a terrorist attack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqro2DTGhlo

The issue with that is, there is very little evidence that those draconian anti-terror laws have had any effect in reducing the number of attacks in the UK (and maybe the USA), rather than normal laws we already had. For example there hasn't been any Islamic shootings in the UK, not because of anti-terrorism laws but just because there are very few guns in the UK, the guns we do have are not ideal for carrying out a massacre (Low calibre rimfire self loading rifles, bolt action, lever action and martini action centre-fire rifle and Shotguns (with limits on their ammo capacity of 3 shells, 1 in the chamber and 2 ready to load) and trying to get better suited guns in is a huge pain. Hell, basically the only handguns you are allowed in the UK are muzzle-loaded Black Powder weapons. Which means you typically have a maximum shot count of 6 before you need to reload a muzzle loaded weapon. And then armed response arrive armed with MP5s and G36s.

Now, consider how quickly it was that the UK suffered a terrorism incident involving a motor vehicle after it began to be seen on the continent. It happened quite quickly because there is basically nothing any country can do to stop a person with a driving licence deciding to drive into a load of people. And those kinds of attacks, ones which require little organisation or planning (get driving licence, buy or rent car, kill) are basically impossible to stop as they don't require the huge amounts of contacts which are necessary to smuggle in weapons and ammunition, especially into an island like the UK. Mainland Europe is connected by road to Turkey (bordering Syria) and by sea to North Africa (Egypt, Libya). Transporting the goods necessary for carrying out an attack is massively easier to do if you're just trying to get into Europe as opposed to the UK.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:Turns out when you treat people like terrorists due to their religion despite every indication to the contrary, it makes them angry.

Because Islamic extremism isn't a serious issue in nations where Islam is the majority of the population or even the law of the land, right?

Yes that is quite right. If Islam were the root of the problem we would expect unstable countries with a different religion to have less violence, however we see repeatedly that unstable countries have violence regardless of the majority religion present. Therefore, a judgement that Islam is the cause is not only irrational but based on bigotry rather than fact.

These last few pages have turned into an absolute gakshow at times, let's try and keep it clean going ahead so we don't have to lock this politics thread as well.

Remember, the topic is the French Presidential Election. Not whether or not the Muslim population of France/Europe/anywhere is able to properly integrate/whether their faith is inherently violent/any of the other tangents you guys keep trying to head down.

Thanks

 Orlanth wrote:
Ok so you are a screaming bigot.

Rich coming from the guy who said “Muslims don't do enough to distance themselves from ISIS”, directed at the guy who said “Nah that's scapegoating them” . Seem you lost the big picture at some point.
If you still can't understand why trying to fight Islamism on theological ground is a very stupid idea, especially for a non-Muslim, I'd be happy to explain you all that by PM.

Anyhow, there was a leak of Macron's team email, some of the document included Cyrillic metadata, and this was Wikileaks' reaction:
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/860855087165571073
The denial is strong there…

Difficult to tell from the huge amount of emails published if anything particularly damning has been revealed. Macron's team is claiming that the real emails have been dotted with fake documents to confuse readers.

I doubt it's enough to break his lead at this late hour. We shall see soon enough.


@A Town Called Mallus and @NinthMusketeer, happy to continue this discussion via PM, gents.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Macron's team is claiming that the real emails have been dotted with fake documents to confuse readers.

Which goes very well with the Russian metadata. But hey, you know, WIkileaks can't believe that people that have access to all the originals could be faster than them to find out the fakes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/louvre-evacuated-suspicious-package-security-france-presidential-elections-emmanuel-macron-speech-a7722471.html

they just jumpy or did the claimed attacks just seem to become more likely?

id say jumpy but you never know these days,

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Macron's team is claiming that the real emails have been dotted with fake documents to confuse readers.

Which goes very well with the Russian metadata. But hey, you know, WIkileaks can't believe that people that have access to all the originals could be faster than them to find out the fakes.

How do you know it is Russian? It could just as well be Bulgarian, Macedonian, Kazakh or Ukrainian.

According to France 24 Live election turnout is approx 74%. This looked reasonably high to me, by UK standarfds.


Though this was counted as 26% abstention so far, turnout by progress in election day is actually LESS than in th 2012 election, even though the final two candidates were less contentious than this current ballot (Le Pen had third place vote).
It would be expected that fear would cause a higher than usual turnout rather than less.

Partaaayyy. Exist polls have Macron leading by 65 to 35%


http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-39823865

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Partaaayyy. Exist polls have Macron leading by 65 to 35%


http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-39823865

Well at least one country managed to dodge the stupidity bullet.

Now watch the polls completely switch at the last moment just to spite me

The TV debate finished her, she tried to rile Macron and he proved he had self control.

Well, that's done. A decent score, too.

Lets see John Oliver comment about that.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Partaaayyy. Exist polls have Macron leading by 65 to 35%


http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-39823865

Well at least one country managed to dodge the stupidity bullet.

Now watch the polls completely switch at the last moment just to spite me

Hey give us Dutch some credit, we rejected Wilders first. Like Americans have claimed credit for the Netherlands so shall I claim credit for France in the name of the Netherlands. No need to thank us citizens, be on your merry day

I guess we should congratulate Jean-Claude Junker and Angela Merkel on their winning of the French presidency.

 Orlanth wrote:
The TV debate finished her, she tried to rile Macron and he proved he had self control.

It would have been hard to catch up on a 20% deficit anyway, unless he literally revealed himself to be a pedophile or Nazi on stage it was going to be insurmountable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I guess we should congratulate Jean-Claude Junker and Angela Merkel on their winning of the French presidency.

Better than congratulating Trump and Putin

Ahah my smug sense of superiority toward the USA is once again vindicated! Take that Trumpites .

Despite my disappointment in the result it is what it is, and I wish the people of France all the best for the future.

God, now we have to look at France as the one sane nation. I'm not sure we can survive this.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
God, now we have to look at France as the one sane nation. I'm not sure we can survive this.

They are going to lord it over you so hard.

Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
God, now we have to look at France as the one sane nation. I'm not sure we can survive this.

They are going to lord it over you so hard.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Ahah my smug sense of superiority toward the USA is once again vindicated! Take that Trumpites .

It has begun...

Damnit where's the violin orkmoticon when I need it XD

 LordofHats wrote:

Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
God, now we have to look at France as the one sane nation. I'm not sure we can survive this.

They are going to lord it over you so hard.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Ahah my smug sense of superiority toward the USA is once again vindicated! Take that Trumpites .

It has begun...

Damnit where's the violin orkmoticon when I need it XD

Still, though, quite a relief.

 LordofHats wrote:
It has begun...

Damnit where's the violin orkmoticon when I need it XD

I am considering making an avatar out of it, just not sure if against the rules ^^.
It would be, like, a US flag with a picture of Trump under it, and a French flag with a picture of Le Pen under it with a big red cross over it. Would that be allowed ^^'?

*laughs evilly* Celebrate all you want. This is nothing but a delay in our grand plan. Do svidaniya France. See you in five years.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I guess we should congratulate Jean-Claude Junker and Angela Merkel on their winning of the French presidency.

EU offices can relax.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
*laughs evilly* Celebrate all you want. This is nothing but a delay in our grand plan. Do svidaniya France. See you in five years.

Meh we'll screw up YOUR elections! Wait, you do have elections, right?

 jhe90 wrote:
EU offices can relax.

They're happy, they got their puppet.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
*laughs evilly* Celebrate all you want. This is nothing but a delay in our grand plan. Do svidaniya France. See you in five years.

Meh we'll screw up YOUR elections! Wait, you do have elections, right?

No, it's actually a ceremonial renewal of Putin's leadership, the name 'elections' is simply a holdover from older traditions.

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
EU offices can relax.

They're happy, they got their puppet.

As opposed to a career politician who left her family-built party, the one she spent years rebuilding, after making the runoff because it was too toxic a brand for a general election, and who's economic policies would, by just about every independent evaluation, be disastrous?

Like...really? That's the rhetoric we're going to go with?

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
EU offices can relax.

They're happy, they got their puppet.

As opposed to a career politician who left her family-built party, the one she spent years rebuilding, after making the runoff because it was too toxic a brand for a general election, and who's economic policies would, by just about every independent evaluation, be disastrous?

Like...really? That's the rhetoric we're going to go with?

A party that was supported by and partially funded by Russia. A party that was established by collaborators and ex SSers. Rich pedigree.