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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

I liked that combat isn't a jail anymore!

 kestral wrote:

 jamopower wrote:
For me it sounds that there will be a "damage roll" every time when certain amount of wounds is inflicted, if there is a possibility of blowing up. And these tables are probably different for each vehicle and for each level of damage?

I would like that. I'd like it if the explosion/wreck rules were a bit better though - having things constantly explode leaving a huddle of marines standing in a crater is weird and can be done better. Plus I Like the way blazing wrecks look.

The whole idea that a tank can literally vaporize leaving an impact crater and no crew yet a transported unit can survive is stupid to a level beyond words. Furthermore the fact that I can shoot down a tyranofex with small arms fire yet my opponent removes its massive carcus yet my shot out dreadnought remains as terrain is equally silly. As cool as wrecks look, I hope models are simply removed when they die as I am not expecting my opponents to have dead MC markers, as fething awesome as that would look. If you a group wants to leave the wrecks/bodies then they can house rule it.

 CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

Running is in.

Running has been rolled into the Movement phase now, too. You can “Advance” when you move by rolling a dice and adding the result to your Movement to go a bit faster at the expense of shooting.

This applies to all models – infantry, vehicles, bikes – everyone. By including this roll as part of your move, the game speeds up, as you no longer have to move modes in both the Movement and Shooting phases.

Color me surprised, it's almost as if they are making it similar to AoS. Shocking development this.
I know you dont want to hear it, but hey it's pretty obvious now...

It sort of confirms there's no shooting into/out of hand-to-hand combat. And 'tarpitting' becomes less of a thing. 'running' in the movment phase makes sense - even if it's just 'd6' whether your a Terminator or a jetbike (unless there's more to it).

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

Instead of not being able to do anything after a fallback Ravenwing might be able to shoot. We'll just have to wait and see. I really enjoy the whole concept.

Also, Psychic Phase tomorrow!

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

They'll probably be able to retreat and charge as in AoS.
(sarcasm on)
It makes perfect sense to mitigate the fact that your opponent managed to assault you through the whole board while being shot at. It wasn't due to his efforts after all - he just got lucky on a 2d6 charge (yeah this will probably stay too )
(sarcasm off)

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

Instead of not being able to do anything after a fallback Ravenwing might be able to shoot. We'll just have to wait and see. I really enjoy the whole concept.

Also, Psychic Phase tomorrow!

Very excited for the psychic phase!

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

I imagine they'll still be able to act during your turn. Now THAT would be gross and make jump troops worth taking.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

Or just adjust their points and or give them a new rule. People need to expect and be prepared for each and every unit to change drastically here. I mean, I just painted 80 genestealer cult hybrids and I expect return to the shadows and cult ambush to disappear entirely. No way those rules will work as is, but I am also sure they get a new interpretation. I wouldn't worry I am sure ravenwing will be awesome, maybe faster bikes, maybe jink is a built in modifier to their save all the time, hello 2+ anything is possible. I mean, I haven't seen anything on overwatch, if that is gone your also losing grim resolve right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yonasu wrote:
Color me surprised, it's almost as if they are making it similar to AoS. Shocking development this.
I know you dont want to hear it, but hey it's pretty obvious now...

Speak for yourself bub. I love everything I have seen or heard so far and I don't play AoS.

 CoreCommander wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

They'll probably be able to retreat and charge as in AoS.
(sarcasm on)
It makes perfect sense to mitigate the fact that your opponent managed to assault you through the whole board while being shot at. It wasn't due to his efforts after all - he just got lucky on a 2d6 charge (yeah this will probably stay too )
(sarcasm off)

Yeah it may be a pain to actually get into combat, but I think the fact that by and large the assaulting unit hits first mitigates the pain of them running away next turn.

I think this mostly just eliminates one sided slaughters. If something stands a fighting chance they're probably going to slog it out.

And if you have a very one sided affair (Assault Termies vs Guard) the guys on the receiving end have probably been so reduced they won't be effective anymore. Plus, there would be a pretty sizable chance that you would have wiped them on the first turn and ended up just as vulnerable as if they had run away.

They mention that Running only comes at the expense of Shooting. Could be everyone can Run and Assault?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

Or just adjust their points and or give them a new rule. People need to expect and be prepared for each and every unit to change drastically here. I mean, I just painted 80 genestealer cult hybrids and I expect return to the shadows and cult ambush to disappear entirely. No way those rules will work as is, but I am also sure they get a new interpretation. I wouldn't worry I am sure ravenwing will be awesome, maybe faster bikes, maybe jink is a built in modifier to their save all the time, hello 2+ anything is possible. I mean, I haven't seen anything on overwatch, if that is gone your also losing grim resolve right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yonasu wrote:
Color me surprised, it's almost as if they are making it similar to AoS. Shocking development this.
I know you dont want to hear it, but hey it's pretty obvious now...

Speak for yourself bub. I love everything I have seen or heard so far and I don't play AoS.

Oh sure, I'm not devastated, just idly wondering. I'm excited in general to see how ALL rules for ALL armies have changed.

 CoreCommander wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

They'll probably be able to retreat and charge as in AoS.
(sarcasm on)
It makes perfect sense to mitigate the fact that your opponent managed to assault you through the whole board while being shot at. It wasn't due to his efforts after all - he just got lucky on a 2d6 charge (yeah this will probably stay too )
(sarcasm off)

I get the reaction as I play many assault armies, but you have to wait and see here. If first turn assaults are a thing, if charging from reserve makes a return, if removing casualties from the rear reappears and overwatch vanishes then guess what? We are back to 5th where assault armies were WAY stronger then shooting armies, by adding the fall back rule you give every army an opportunity to shine at what they do. Being able to hide in assault has been a MASSIVE flaw since 3rd edition. When good players actively avoid making units efficient enough to win in a dingle assault so they can hide in finish in your turn then your system is out of whack.

Ah the dreaded dingle assault

 Red Corsair wrote:

Speak for yourself bub. I love everything I have seen or heard so far and I don't play AoS.

What? Your love was not in question here...

Another factor is that assault armies won't be moving just 6" anymore. We also have no idea how charge ranges work.

I'm not against the removal of combat locking - I would've just liked to see some sort of penalty for combat disengagement.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Another factor is that assault armies won't be moving just 6" anymore. We also have no idea how charge ranges work.

By this time, I'm pretty sure it will be just 2d6.

And of course the thing we're glossing over is bespoke movement for flyers, which is so so much better.

The good: Withdrawing is in, which both eliminates the idea of tarpits (which were always dumb) and makes surrounding an enemy quite important - assuming you can't withdraw into a pile of enemies. This is fantastic news - I was having nightmares of the start of 6th edition again, with blobs on objectives just hiding from being shot by ineffectually flailing at a nigh invincible enemy until the game ends. It sounds like the unit they're opposed by gets to shoot them once out of sequence too, if I read it right which sounds kinda cool on paper, but in practice I'm worried that it'll make dedicated assault still pretty weak.

The bad: Running is still random - for goodness sake, why? Just give everyone flat +4" if you're going with 1D6, or otherwise double movement like every other game out there. Running 1" isn't thematic or interesting, it just feels ridiculous; I guess that Wraiths who completely ignore terrain also trip on their own tail for no reason. I actually hate that this hasn't changed, it adds more randomness, more pointless dice rolling and slows down the game needlessly.

The ugly: Charging is clearly still done in the assault phase, so we're likely back to 2d6". If so, that's just awful again; one of my most loathed changes from 5th to 6th was the fact that assault marines could fail to make a 3" charge in the open, yet bob the guardsman could sprint 12" across the board. I really hope it's changed, but I seriously doubt it.

Yonasu wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Speak for yourself bub. I love everything I have seen or heard so far and I don't play AoS.

What? Your love was not in question here...

Oh I see, you weren't being sarcastic as feth now.... convenient. So what was the point of your post? To point out the painfully obvious without making any point otherwise?

Gonna be interesting how they replace things like hit and run or battle focus.

 CoreCommander wrote:
I'm not against the removal of combat locking - I would've just liked to see some sort of penalty for combat disengagement.

You mean like not being able to assault OR shoot... I mean those seem like pretty big penalties to my armies.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

More than likely they will get some rule built-in to give them unique flavor. I would suggest looking at this new rule set through the prism that whatever rules and capabilities X unit has now are gone/different and you'll have to wait to find out what they can do when 8th drops or is leaked.

Eyjio wrote:
The good: Withdrawing is in, which both eliminates the idea of tarpits (which were always dumb) and makes surrounding an enemy quite important - assuming you can't withdraw into a pile of enemies. This is fantastic news - I was having nightmares of the start of 6th edition again, with blobs on objectives just hiding from being shot by ineffectually flailing at a nigh invincible enemy until the game ends. It sounds like the unit they're opposed by gets to shoot them once out of sequence too, if I read it right which sounds kinda cool on paper, but in practice I'm worried that it'll make dedicated assault still pretty weak.

The bad: Running is still random - for goodness sake, why? Just give everyone flat +4" if you're going with 1D6, or otherwise double movement like every other game out there. Running 1" isn't thematic or interesting, it just feels ridiculous; I guess that Wraiths who completely ignore terrain also trip on their own tail for no reason. I actually hate that this hasn't changed, it adds more randomness, more pointless dice rolling and slows down the game needlessly.

The ugly: Charging is clearly still done in the assault phase, so we're likely back to 2d6". If so, that's just awful again; one of my most loathed changes from 5th to 6th was the fact that assault marines could fail to make a 3" charge in the open, yet bob the guardsman could sprint 12" across the board. I really hope it's changed, but I seriously doubt it.

Could go the AoS route and you don't declare a target but roll possible assault range then pick a unit within that range. That makes up for it big time. I can have an easy assault lined up but if I roll box cars I can now run into that PITA unit behind them.

Other than the "not running through walls" stuff, they did not touch on difficult or dangerous terrain, did they?

Are movement rates not slowed by terrain like AoS?

So no more Tarpitting? :/

 Red Corsair wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
I'm not against the removal of combat locking - I would've just liked to see some sort of penalty for combat disengagement.

You mean like not being able to assault OR shoot... I mean those seem like pretty big penalties to my armies.

Yeah, yeah I know it is still inconvenient, but from from experience in AoS I feel it should get a bit more severe. Receive d6 wounds or whatever for example.

 flakpanzer wrote:
Other than the "not running through walls" stuff, they did not touch on difficult or dangerous terrain, did they?

Are movement rates not slowed by terrain like AoS?

I wouldn't mind if they removed the terrain penalties. I mean, in combat if you don't have cover your moving cautiously, or slower then normal generally, once in heavy cover you have the liberty to move a bit faster and liberally. That's an abstraction of course but I think you can see my point, basically cover doesn't slow you down THAT much in a live combat unless it's designed to, so maybe they will define terrain like trenches and barbed wire as a opposed to low walls and trees.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CoreCommander wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 CoreCommander wrote:
I'm not against the removal of combat locking - I would've just liked to see some sort of penalty for combat disengagement.

You mean like not being able to assault OR shoot... I mean those seem like pretty big penalties to my armies.

Yeah, yeah I know it is still inconvenient, but from from experience in AoS I feel it should get a bit more severe. Receive d6 wounds or whatever for example.

That's because AoS isn't a game that revolves around shooting though. If a unit of broadsides falls back and forfeits it's shooting, or a riptide, that's a big penalty. We aren't talking about a few spears or arrows here.