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They effectively two phases already, declare a charge, resolve overwatch, charge distance, repeat for other squads, then do combat.

Don't necessarily like that you can shoot in combat with pistols. I suppose that they are only pistols makes it less annoying, and it makes pistols a potentially worthwhile choice. It is also clear that they will probably drop the +1 attack for pistol + CC weapon, if you can always shoot your pistol even in close combat. Eager to see how it works in practice.

Orthon wrote:
"Heavy weapons are worth talking about too. These no longer snap fire if you move, and instead they have a flat -1 to hit modifier for moving units. This applies to all models with heavy weapons, vehicles included. There are a few other factors that affect hit rolls too – smoke launchers on a vehicle, for example, have the same effect of -1 to hit."

Interesting, so to hit modifiers ARE in the game. Lets say an ork has a +5 to hit and then moves with heavy weapon and targets a vehicle with a smoke launcher effect giving him a -2 to hit, is he not able to hit the vehicle at all now? That is the case in other war games with to hit modifiers such as Flames of War.

This also is I guess a buff to vehicles now that they can move at any speed and fire all their weapons just at -1 to hit, instead of snapfiring? Predators just got better. This is a nerf to current monstrous creatures who have no such penalties. Riptide that moved firing his burst cannon on a 5+ lol.

It's relative. Under old system, advantage of Vehicles was that whilst they did have restrictions to moving and shooting (depending on specific Vehicle), even most primitive tank was still better off than infantry who were severely punished from moving & shooting. This made AFV's work like they work in real life - mobile firepower.
However, going by what they have stated, Vehicles and Infantry both suffer same penalty regarding moving & shooting. Dreadnought and Infantry squad both have movement of 6". Seems to me Vehicles are not going to be very special?

Note that above only applies to Heavy weapons - presumably, if Vehicle has Assault or Rapid Fire weapons, they can fire at full BS.

Gotta remember too that they are re-writing the rules from the ground up. Nothing stops them from just changing old Heavy weapons and saying - this particular tank weapon is no longer "heavy".

Or customizing weapons on the specific profiles of specific units. An assault cannon might be "heavy" on a Terminator, but not on a tank.

Or bringing back suspensors and targetters.

Lord Kragan wrote:
Haven't seen this posted (so forgive if it's been posted prior to page 124):

This is really stupid.
“Uuuuur duuuur I am the administrative primarch I am good at logistics and organizing stuff but since I slept for a very long time I can now do biological modification! ”
The idea of super marines is in itself dumb and bad, but they could have least done it in a cool way with Inquisitors doing risky stuff and very secretive stuff and mago biologis doing forbidden stuff and it taking a very long time and all. But no, let's go for a stupid deus ex machina.

Yeah, we'll see how it develops, but I am not necessarily on board for the ham-handed nu-marine fluff. They've sculpted themselves into a corner. I'm sure the company wants to update the marine to be more true-scale, but how they roll that change out is very delicate. Not sure how they could have done it easier.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
Haven't seen this posted (so forgive if it's been posted prior to page 124):

This is really stupid.
“Uuuuur duuuur I am the administrative primarch I am good at logistics and organizing stuff but since I slept for a very long time I can now do biological modification! ”
The idea of super marines is in itself dumb and bad, but they could have least done it in a cool way with Inquisitors doing risky stuff and very secretive stuff and mago biologis doing forbidden stuff and it taking a very long time and all. But no, let's go for a stupid deus ex machina.

So an adeptus mechanicus magus working for 10000 years is too short of a time span?

Your given 2 potential pathways for a change like this is actually happening. And you still complain?

Sluggas might actually be worse than before in some ways, if they hit on 5+ because they are a shooting attack. On the other hand being able to make the attack in the shooting phase will probably have its own advantages, and if orks remain S3 (I hope they'll be S4) that might also be an advantage.

I also don't want orks to end up being a mono-build army. Shootas probably won't get an AP modifier, but there are all sorts of potential ways they could be buffed or that they might work with other ork rules to make them viable. Maybe orks will be able to run and shoot at -1 to hit. Maybe orks that stand and shoot will get a bonus against battleshock tests (they're too distracted by all the wonderful dakka to be aware of what's going on around them). Maybe Bad Moons will be able to spend command points to do crazy things with shooting.

We can't really say yet, but I'm pretty optimistic, especially since they've singled out orks a couple of times when talking about things getting better.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
Haven't seen this posted (so forgive if it's been posted prior to page 124):

This is really stupid.
“Uuuuur duuuur I am the administrative primarch I am good at logistics and organizing stuff but since I slept for a very long time I can now do biological modification! ”
The idea of super marines is in itself dumb and bad, but they could have least done it in a cool way with Inquisitors doing risky stuff and very secretive stuff and mago biologis doing forbidden stuff and it taking a very long time and all. But no, let's go for a stupid deus ex machina.

What, like Bellisarius Carl working on this for over 10,000 years and going on a bunch of secret missions around the galaxy to achieve it? That kind of thing? ;-)

 Azreal13 wrote:
Right, I'd normally use the little yellow triangle of friendship, but weekends often mean Mods are off having lives, so in an effort to save some poor soul the effort of steering this Titanic around the iceberg when they next log on, I'm going to post it publicly in an effort to see if people can put their big boy pants on and self moderate to save the voluntary team a bunch of work.

1)Discussion of nuMarines already has its own thread, so keeping it out of the 8th Ed thread is probably a good idea for the sake of clarity.

2) While not against forum rules per sé, requoting big blocks of text, long quote chains or videos for one sentence comments is appalling forum etiquette.

Not trying to mini mod, just trying to keep things square.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
What, like Bellisarius Carl working on this for over 10,000 years and going on a bunch of secret missions around the galaxy to achieve it? That kind of thing? ;-)

The guy that was introduced in the settings like two weeks ago, and who isn't mentioned for a second in the video?

I personally expect some units that previously relied on having an extra attack due to pistol + CC to just have that extra attack inbuilt on their profile in many cases.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I personally expect some units that previously relied on having an extra attack due to pistol + CC to just have that extra attack inbuilt on their profile in many cases.

It's little touches like that that shave minutes off a game.

Pure speculation on my part, but if vehicles move much faster than infantry then it still means they have an advantage when it comes to heavy weapons. I'm just happy snap firing because you moved is no longer a thing.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Yeah, we'll see how it develops, but I am not necessarily on board for the ham-handed nu-marine fluff. They've sculpted themselves into a corner. I'm sure the company wants to update the marine to be more true-scale, but how they roll that change out is very delicate. Not sure how they could have done it easier.

I would agree with this. Nu-marines are a product of GW trying to figure out how to upscale marines without pissing off half their base. The delivery feels wonky, but this process was always going to feel odd.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
What, like Bellisarius Carl working on this for over 10,000 years and going on a bunch of secret missions around the galaxy to achieve it? That kind of thing? ;-)

The guy that was introduced in the settings like two weeks ago, and who isn't mentioned for a second in the video?

Possibly, yes.

There is indeed a thread for the New Marines.

Let's stick to the topic here, which is the new edition of 40K the game, and the rules of that game.

Probably the vehicle keyword will have some extra rules

It appears the post I was responding to was moderated.

I've been out all day and have only had a chance to glance at this thread. Let's see if I'm reading the Warhammer Community post correctly:

Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat!

Clear enough. Pistols can be fired by a unit locked in combat, but only at the closest enemy target.

When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units, much like the current edition.

It's the "other units" that I'm wondering about. Am I reading it correctly that in a one-on-one combat you'll be able to fire your pistols at the enemy unit as A) they're the closest enemy target and B) they're not in combat with "other units". Correct? Or has this been clarified on twitter or elsewhere?

Because, apparently, it needs repeating so soon after it was posted!

 Alpharius wrote:
There is indeed a thread for the New Marines.

Let's stick to the topic here, which is the new edition of 40K the game, and the rules of that game.

My buddy plays true scale marines. He used AoS Eternals legs and standard torsos. Works very well.

How about pistols shooting in the shooting phase while in melee.

Posting stuff that's off topic, and then pulling a 'now, back on topic'?

Well, that's going to cause problems...

...aside from, you know, being against the rules too.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Don't necessarily like that you can shoot in combat with pistols. I suppose that they are only pistols makes it less annoying, and it makes pistols a potentially worthwhile choice. It is also clear that they will probably drop the +1 attack for pistol + CC weapon, if you can always shoot your pistol even in close combat. Eager to see how it works in practice.

You mean you don't like one of the most asked-for rules to be implemented and in turn make the special pistols worth a damn?

Can you honestly say that the Plasma Pistol, Grav Pistol, Inferno Pistol, and Hand Flamer were in any way worth their points? The answer you're looking for is no.

They either needed to do this or make them 5 points.

ERJAK wrote:

Finally, i don't get this obsession with utter bleak nothing could possibly make anything good ever forever grrrr thing people have going. It seems like something you slap on a tagline and then skirt around in your stories.

You don't get the "obsession" with the entire underpinning theme of the whole setting? Seriously? What's next, incredulously demanding Star Trek fans justify their obsession with all that silly optimistic utopian exploration nonsense? 40K is dystopian. Relentlessly, sometimes even to the point of intentional or unintentional self-parody, unendingly, hideously dystopian. It's a setting where children are subjected to invasive surgery, genetic engineering, and brainwashing to turn them into super soldiers; where trillions live short brutal lives in crushing poverty to fuel the Imperium's war machine while their noble rulers live for centuries in utter luxury, and even sometimes hunt their subjects for sport; where ignorance, superstition, and fear have turned even normally utopian concepts like transhumanism into an order of inhuman monstrosities who spend lives like pennies and actively suppress knowledge and progress.

Now you can leaven that perpetual grimness with some self-aware, cynical humour, or some situational heroism, but without all of those things 40K is just a bargain-basement Dune ripoff. It's the pastiche combined with the crushing dystopianism that define 40K.

So yeah, that's why the "obsession".

Sweet - Seraphim should be more fun now

Since cover is now an armor save modifier, could we now see negative (bad) cover? For instance, getting caught while you are wading across a thigh-deep river would be pretty bad. It could mean marines go from a 3+ save to a 4+ save.


Also, I hope if you have two pistols you can still fire both of them, and count as two close combat weapons. If true, a unit of deathwatch marines each with two plasma pistols would be rather interesting.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Since cover is now an armor save modifier, could we now see negative (bad) cover? For instance, getting caught while you are wading across a thigh-deep river would be pretty bad. It could mean marines go from a 3+ save to a 4+ save.


Also, I hope if you have two pistols you can still fire both of them, and count as two close combat weapons. If true, a unit of deathwatch marines each with two plasma pistols would be rather interesting.

That sounds like fun, actually. You can make some pretty nasty tables with negative cover.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
Haven't seen this posted (so forgive if it's been posted prior to page 124):

This is really stupid.
“Uuuuur duuuur I am the administrative primarch I am good at logistics and organizing stuff but since I slept for a very long time I can now do biological modification! ”
The idea of super marines is in itself dumb and bad, but they could have least done it in a cool way with Inquisitors doing risky stuff and very secretive stuff and mago biologis doing forbidden stuff and it taking a very long time and all. But no, let's go for a stupid deus ex machina.

What, like Bellisarius Carl working on this for over 10,000 years and going on a bunch of secret missions around the galaxy to achieve it? That kind of thing? ;-)

But he hasn't though, has he? His words from the trailer were "10 Millennia ago, i was set a task. One abandoned when the galaxy burned. Resumed once more, for the sake of us all" which tells us he stopped when the Horus Heresy began/during it, and recently started it again after the Fall of Cadia.