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ERJAK wrote:


Yes because developing new, superior weapons technology(space marines are weapons, they are not and have never been people), is just soooooooooo dumb right? I mean why would you ever make any new materiel in war?

Two issues. First, it's not something that fits the universe's narrative. Creating new, better, Space Marines, originally crafted at the hand of the Emperor himself, a veritable god given flesh, with vast resources and technology not available in the 41st millenium, shouldn't really be possible, and goes against the setting's theme that no, things won't get better, that technology and science no longer offer hope (all the " Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war" stuff).

Second, Space Marines are already supposed to be the "best of the best". We've had "super marines" before, and while they worked in narrow applications, such as the Grey Knights and Custodes, ideas on how to do this have become increasingly stupid or just unnecessary, with the Centurion concept and now "BigMarines". It's just a really bad hamfisting of the concept to sell a new line instead of just revamping it without comment the way they did stuff like the Dark Eldar line.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
True but will that cover save help them when a squad of 20 boyz jumps onto them in CC? Striking first?

Probably not.

But we'll see.

What will help is that all of those 20 boyz probably won't be hitting in the combat.

In my head it started as a 30 boy squad

What I'm saying is that I would not be surprised to see weapon ranges for CC, which would preclude many of those 20 Boyz from hitting.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
True but will that cover save help them when a squad of 20 boyz jumps onto them in CC? Striking first?

Probably not.

But we'll see.

What will help is that all of those 20 boyz probably won't be hitting in the combat.

In my head it started as a 30 boy squad

What I'm saying is that I would not be surprised to see weapon ranges for CC, which would preclude many of those 20 Boyz from hitting.

Hmmmm I hope not, but you could be right.

It doesn't really replace the current system as a time saver, you're still measuring each model to figure out if they're in the fight.

I'm hoping they think of something a little more intuitive, but won't be mad if they don't, as I said it won't be much different from the current system.

 Formerly Wu wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
Using a pistol in CC should make the owning model forego all of their attacks.

Then what's the sword for?

They'll likely just lose their extra attack.

So, a model with a pistol and CC weapon will be able to make ALL of their normal attacks PLUS a pistol attack? Eh... I doubt it. I think the pistol attack will probably be in lieu of normal attacks.

v0iddrgn wrote:

 Formerly Wu wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
Using a pistol in CC should make the owning model forego all of their attacks.

Then what's the sword for?

They'll likely just lose their extra attack.

So, a model with a pistol and CC weapon will be able to make ALL of their normal attacks PLUS a pistol attack? Eh... I doubt it. I think the pistol attack will probably be in lieu of normal attacks.

I don't see why a model making its normal attack plus a pistol attack would be bad if they lose the +1 attack for having a pistol.

v0iddrgn wrote:

 Formerly Wu wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
Using a pistol in CC should make the owning model forego all of their attacks.

Then what's the sword for?

They'll likely just lose their extra attack.

So, a model with a pistol and CC weapon will be able to make ALL of their normal attacks PLUS a pistol attack? Eh... I doubt it. I think the pistol attack will probably be in lieu of normal attacks.

If they don't get an additional attack for having a pistol, it is a net decrease in effectiveness for the majority of CC units out there. They are trading an armor piercing or higher strength attack for a single pistol shot. Only units toting a special pistol are really getting anything good out of this.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:

 Formerly Wu wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
Using a pistol in CC should make the owning model forego all of their attacks.

Then what's the sword for?

They'll likely just lose their extra attack.

So, a model with a pistol and CC weapon will be able to make ALL of their normal attacks PLUS a pistol attack? Eh... I doubt it. I think the pistol attack will probably be in lieu of normal attacks.

I don't see why a model making its normal attack plus a pistol attack would be bad if they lose the +1 attack for having a pistol.

This is what I meant.

Having a pistol lets you shoot it in the Shooting phase, and then make your normal number of attacks in the Assault phase. The two don't have a weird, abstract overlap, like now.

I wish orks will get more melee weapon options in 8th

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If they don't get an additional attack for having a pistol, it is a net decrease in effectiveness for the majority of CC units out there. They are trading an armor piercing or higher strength attack for a single pistol shot. Only units toting a special pistol are really getting anything good out of this.

It will be a buff for current "specialist" weapons like power fists, though, since those don't currently get that bonus attack.

ERJAK wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:
Haven't seen this posted (so forgive if it's been posted prior to page 124):

So a new Crusade and a new variant of Marine.
Sounds like fun.

I'm actually pretty cranky about his.

I'm all for the story moving forward, but this seems a little..... Unnecessary.

Yo dawg, I heard you like Space Marines, so I've put more Space Marines into your Marines, and they'll be the Spaciest Space Marines ever.

I'll try to keep an open mind, but that's my initial reaction.

Same...This was the moment that I realized I am not the market group they are going after.

Yes because developing new, superior weapons technology(space marines are weapons, they are not and have never been people), is just soooooooooo dumb right? I mean why would you ever make any new materiel in war?

In the friendliest way possible, If I need to explain this specific incident, then you wouldn't understand where I'm coming from even if you disagree.

And there is nothing wrong with being the market they are going after. No right or wrong.

I am loving 8th!!!!
Shooting sounds pretty perfect, have 0 complaints at the concepts there!

And that video, wew lad that is awesome.

I like it. The Emperor gene-forged the Astartes at an appropriate level for their time. The cost of these new marines is probably higher than our current Astartes, so the Emperor made to a level that was more than capable for their time.

What is the best way to combat one of the biggest threats at the time? With more powerful soldiers.

Now Gulliman is taking a risk, if these new marines fall to chaos, it will cause bigger issues, but now that Gulliman is back, and able to focus resources etc, why wouldn't he make a new generation of Astartes that are bigger and better to combat the Imperium's enemy's?

Did anyone else notice as well that they said Chapters which have been destroyed would be brought back with these new Marines? That is awesome.

 Vaktathi wrote:

ERJAK wrote:


Yes because developing new, superior weapons technology(space marines are weapons, they are not and have never been people), is just soooooooooo dumb right? I mean why would you ever make any new materiel in war?

Two issues. First, it's not something that fits the universe's narrative. Creating new, better, Space Marines, originally crafted at the hand of the Emperor himself, a veritable god given flesh, with vast resources and technology not available in the 41st millenium, shouldn't really be possible, and goes against the setting's theme that no, things won't get better, that technology and science no longer offer hope (all the " Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war" stuff).

Second, Space Marines are already supposed to be the "best of the best". We've had "super marines" before, and while they worked in narrow applications, such as the Grey Knights and Custodes, ideas on how to do this have become increasingly stupid or just unnecessary, with the Centurion concept and now "BigMarines". It's just a really bad hamfisting of the concept to sell a new line instead of just revamping it without comment the way they did stuff like the Dark Eldar line.

First, the Emperor was SEEN as a god, and he was hilariously OP sure, but he was also a deeply flawed individual who was capable of making horrifyingly stupid mistakes. And Space Marines aren't even the best of the best in the current setting, custodes and primarchs are both superior.

Also, the emperor developed the tools for making marines before/ during the crusades when his resources were fewer.

Finally, i don't get this obsession with utter bleak nothing could possibly make anything good ever forever grrrr thing people have going. It seems like something you slap on a tagline and then skirt around in your stories.

And how long is the 'well they found it in the bottom of the closet under their old shoes' explanation for new stuff going to be the better option? Or are we all cool with just never getting anything new for any army but nids ever again?

"Also, the emperor developed the tools for making marines before/ during the crusades when his resources were fewer. "


Ehm, no. The golden age of the Imperium was during the Great Crusade. The astartes of today are inferior to the Legionary Astartes. They have a worse geneseed and worse equipement.
Not saying this to add to the discussion about the Nu-marines, just correcting your point. The Imperium of 41k is in every way worse that the one in 30k. Thats the most basic narrative.

 Galas wrote:
"Also, the emperor developed the tools for making marines before/ during the crusades when his resources were fewer. "


Ehm, no. The golden age of the Imperium was during the Great Crusade. The astartes of today are inferior to the Legionary Astartes. They have a worse geneseed and worse equipement.
Not saying this to add to the discussion about the Nu-marines, just correcting your point. The Imperium of 41k is in every way worse that the one in 30k. Thats the most basic narrative.

It's not about resources, it was about making super soldiers appropriate for their time. Which he did.

new vid = tingly spine!

Right, I'd normally use the little yellow triangle of friendship, but weekends often mean Mods are off having lives, so in an effort to save some poor soul the effort of steering this Titanic around the iceberg when they next log on, I'm going to post it publicly in an effort to see if people can put their big boy pants on and self moderate to save the voluntary team a bunch of work.

1)Discussion of nuMarines already has its own thread, so keeping it out of the 8th Ed thread is probably a good idea for the sake of clarity.

2) While not against forum rules per sé, requoting big blocks of text, long quote chains or videos for one sentence comments is appalling forum etiquette.

Not trying to mini mod, just trying to keep things square.

ERJAK wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

ERJAK wrote:


Yes because developing new, superior weapons technology(space marines are weapons, they are not and have never been people), is just soooooooooo dumb right? I mean why would you ever make any new materiel in war?

Two issues. First, it's not something that fits the universe's narrative. Creating new, better, Space Marines, originally crafted at the hand of the Emperor himself, a veritable god given flesh, with vast resources and technology not available in the 41st millenium, shouldn't really be possible, and goes against the setting's theme that no, things won't get better, that technology and science no longer offer hope (all the " Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war" stuff).

Second, Space Marines are already supposed to be the "best of the best". We've had "super marines" before, and while they worked in narrow applications, such as the Grey Knights and Custodes, ideas on how to do this have become increasingly stupid or just unnecessary, with the Centurion concept and now "BigMarines". It's just a really bad hamfisting of the concept to sell a new line instead of just revamping it without comment the way they did stuff like the Dark Eldar line.

First, the Emperor was SEEN as a god, and he was hilariously OP sure, but he was also a deeply flawed individual who was capable of making horrifyingly stupid mistakes.

Gods need not be perfect, one can look to the Norse and Greek pantheons for that. But, while it hasn't been touched on a recently, the Emperor has a Warp presence not dissimilar to the likes of the Chaos Gods or Gork&Mork (there's a great fluff piece from one of the first stories about Ork Gargants about how the Emperor's warp-self bellows a warning to Gork and Mork to knock it off and sends omens through the Tarot to psykers of impending disaster), part of the irony of the Golden Throne was always that it prevented the Emperor from moving on to that next state, and for the setting's purposes he's always been a figure of unparalleled power and knowledge.

And Space Marines aren't even the best of the best in the current setting, custodes and primarchs are both superior.

Right, but they were really background elements. in the 41st millenium the Primarch's were all dead, missing, or Daemons, while the Custodes were left on Earth and didn't really leave except to sometimes roam on the Black Ships bringing the Emperor his food, and there were almost none of them even next to Space Marines, so for the purposes of the greater storyline and practical gameplay, they were irrelevant remnants of a mythical past many thousands of years gone.

Also, the emperor developed the tools for making marines before/ during the crusades when his resources were fewer.

When he could himself, as a being of far greater power and knowledge than any other, put his will towards their creation, and had stuff from the Dark Age of Technology at ready hand.

Finally, i don't get this obsession with utter bleak nothing could possibly make anything good ever forever grrrr thing people have going. It seems like something you slap on a tagline and then skirt around in your stories.

You mean...the underlying thematic premise of the Warhammer 40,000 universe since it's inception? That there's only a universe of war and that hope, technology, understanding and peace are but fevered dreams of madmen?

If you don't get why people don't like mucking with a fundamental core premise of a thematic fictional setting, I don't think I'll be able to explain it.

And how long is the 'well they found it in the bottom of the closet under their old shoes' explanation for new stuff going to be the better option? Or are we all cool with just never getting anything new for any army but nids ever again?

In this case they needn't have used it, they could have just said "hey we're making the models cooler looking" and nobody would need a fluff explanation. Just like they didn't need one with Dark Eldar when they got their entire model line overhauled from the ground up. The whole fluff thing here was unnecessary.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:
Hold on a little! If space marines in cover will be like terminators (2+ sv), how on earth are we going to take them out now? Going from 3+ to 2+ is a 100% increase in effectivness when going from 6+ to 5+ is only 20% (?) increase. Seems like 8th will be more about space marines than 30k is.

I err.. don't think your numbers are quite right? Or you're not expressing yourself clearly, one or the other.

If you instead of faiing on 1 and 2 on a D6 fail on only 1, that is twice as good right?
If you fail your save on 1,2,3,4 and 5 but now "only" fail on 1,2,3and 4 that is only an increase of 20% or am doing something wrong? (its been a long labourus day)

Another way of looking at it would be that Space Marines went from passing their save on a 3, 4, 5, or 6 to passing it on a 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6. While orks went from passing it on a 6 to passing it on a 5 or 6. Space Marines halve their chance of failure, while orks double their chance of success. Space Marines will mostly pass their save either way and orks will mostly fail their save either way, but each sees a minor benefit for being in cover.

The bigger difference is that when it comes to shooting models are now getting a -1 instead of snap firing. For orks snap firing was not that big of a deal, because it was just a -1, while for Space Marines it was -3. Without knowing what else is changing I think it's too early to say that orks are getting the short end of the stick. I think it's a good change that will make certain things more viable, I just hope that orks get rules changes that make certain things better for them as well.

I have played since 40k 1989 and i like every change shown so far and i truly belive that 40k need a real shake up or "reset" so i am not against 8th at all. The problem is that everything so far seems to invalidiate every ork army except slugga boys in trucks. I am sure we can manage in close combat but i am afraid that is the only build they have used whan balancing the armies.

It just seems like we again will be left with a crap load of unusable models.

But without knowing what their stats and rules are, how do you know orks will be bad?

Also, what are they demonstrating tomorrow?

I think the new rules(as in base rules) look amazing so far. I was hoping they would touch on ordnance though.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
But without knowing what their stats and rules are, how do you know orks will be bad?

Also, what are they demonstrating tomorrow?

They are doing charges next.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
But without knowing what their stats and rules are, how do you know orks will be bad?

Also, what are they demonstrating tomorrow?

They are doing charges next.

Considering it is just charges, and not assault, it implies big shake ups.

 Rippy wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
But without knowing what their stats and rules are, how do you know orks will be bad?

Also, what are they demonstrating tomorrow?

They are doing charges next.

Considering it is just charges, and not assault, it implies big shake ups.

Or they renamed Assault phase to Charge phase.

In AoS Charging and Assaults are different phases.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
But without knowing what their stats and rules are, how do you know orks will be bad?

Also, what are they demonstrating tomorrow?

I am not saying that orks will be bad, i am saying that orks will be limited!

I doubt that orks will get an increase in BS and i doubt that shootas will get a save mod.
in 7th an ork shoota mob shooting at marines in cover will kill 3,33 marines
in 8th an ork shoota mob shooting at marines in cover will kill 1,66 marines

So either space marines will increase in points (highly unlikely) or orks will decrease in points (not very likely either). As you see orks with shootas suddenly has no place in 8th and that makes me sad.

What i mean is that in order to balance all the different factions we will see a lot of army builds go away and be replaced with just a few for each faction.

That's all pure speculation. We simply do not know how Orks will turn out.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
In AoS Charging and Assaults are different phases.

As they were in 2nd. Well, the first thing you did at the top of your movement phase was declare charges in 2nd, but close enough.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So can TEQ get a 1+ save if they're in cover (with a roll of 1 still failing of course)?

And wow at the new pistols rules. Looks like I'll be giving Infernus Pistols and Hand Flamers to every BA unit I can...

Also looks like SoB Seraphim might be borderline OP now...

Thousand Sons Corsucator could be awesome if blast gives D3 hits.

Having them be two different phases makes the alternating combat mechanic cleaner in practice.

@ jhnbrg

But again, you don't know what shoota boyz will be capable of just yet. It's ok to speculate (I do it all the time), but try to stay positive!

Anyway, I can't to hear about charging. This will be the key to making assault work.