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NOLA Chris wrote:
LD may be the Bravery equivalent for HTH,
roll a d6, add the number of wounds taken,
for every point over the LD an additional figure runs away?

I miss Init for HTH,
I thought they could have fixed it by giving +1 when charging
a further +1 for assault troops,
and extra +s for certain units (bikes, jump packs, etc)
I never have liked the old idea that a guy charging with a dagger hits before the 8 deep pike block behind a wall
(old hangover fears from Fantasy... shudder)

still, gonna be better for my Orkses!!

I agree with all of the init comments above. removing it completely is not how i would have gone, but, i'm not authoring the rules.

 Hollow wrote:
The wheel hasn't exactly been reinvented, more like the tires have just been changed. Would have been cool to see a selection of different standard infantry for various factions. We'd be in a much better position to actually compare things, it'll come, but I'm impatient.

well if you compare the 7th edition versions with each other you can roughly guess at what their stats might look like. It's not THAT different from 7th after all

Tactical Marine
7th: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A1 Ld8 Sv3+ I4 translated to
8th: WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv3+ M6

So WS/BS is equal to ToHit, STWA+Sv stay the same, Ld is -1 and Move MIGHT be 2+Initiative, but that's a really wild guess.

Your average Bloodletter of Khorne:
7th: WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv6+ I4
8th: WS2+ BS2+ S4 T3 W1 A1 Ld6 Sv6+ M6 ?

Dire Avenger:
7th: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld9 Sv4+ I5
8th: WS3+ BS3+ S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ M7 ?

nekooni wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
The wheel hasn't exactly been reinvented, more like the tires have just been changed. Would have been cool to see a selection of different standard infantry for various factions. We'd be in a much better position to actually compare things, it'll come, but I'm impatient.

well if you compare the 7th edition versions with each other you can roughly guess at what their stats might look like. It's not THAT different from 7th after all

Tactical Marine
7th: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A1 Ld8 Sv3+ I4 translated to
8th: WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv3+ M6

So WS/BS is equal to ToHit (vs WS3), STWA+Sv stay the same, Ld is -1 and Move MIGHT be 2+Initiative, but that's a really wild guess.

Your average Bloodletter of Khorne:
7th: WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv6+ I4
8th: WS2+ BS2+ S4 T3 W1 A1 Ld6 Sv6+ M6 ?

Dire Avenger:
7th: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld9 Sv4+ I5
8th: WS3+ BS3+ S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ M7 ?

I agree with most of this. But i can't see a normal Bloodletter hit on 2+. We shall see.

nordsturmking wrote:

nekooni wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
The wheel hasn't exactly been reinvented, more like the tires have just been changed. Would have been cool to see a selection of different standard infantry for various factions. We'd be in a much better position to actually compare things, it'll come, but I'm impatient.

well if you compare the 7th edition versions with each other you can roughly guess at what their stats might look like. It's not THAT different from 7th after all

Tactical Marine
7th: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 A1 Ld8 Sv3+ I4 translated to
8th: WS3+ BS3+ S4 T4 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv3+ M6

So WS/BS is equal to ToHit (vs WS3), STWA+Sv stay the same, Ld is -1 and Move MIGHT be 2+Initiative, but that's a really wild guess.

Your average Bloodletter of Khorne:
7th: WS5 BS5 S4 T3 W1 A1 Ld7 Sv6+ I4
8th: WS2+ BS2+ S4 T3 W1 A1 Ld6 Sv6+ M6 ?

Dire Avenger:
7th: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld9 Sv4+ I5
8th: WS3+ BS3+ S3 T3 W1 A1 Ld8 Sv4+ M7 ?

I agree with most of this. But i can't see a normal Bloodletter hit on 2+. We shall see.

Yeah, it feels odd, but that's the best I can come up with without any other profile. Maybe WS5 translates to 3+ with a special rule to reroll 1s on the "warscroll"

Its no issue to make a Vehicle Fearless.

nordsturmking wrote:
I guess the move stat i the new initiative. So in the second round in a CC the model with the higher M will attack first. Kinda makes sense. When you move very fast you need fast reflexes. so you a more likely to have fast reflexes.

where are you reading this?

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:
What with a Dreadnought having 8 wounds, I am curious as to how many wounds would be on a Warlord Titan! It'll take a whole lot of Dakka to bring one of those down!

It didn't already?

I am very happy with these profiles. Seems easier to understand at a glance (BS and WS are looking to be what you need to roll to hit), Initiative is gone, stuff have more wounds but get hampered, representing tougher to kill models but damage taking its toll.

Yes, very happy.

just need cheaper models

 Bobthehero wrote:
Confirmed BS modifiers, welp, I am less and less attracted to this, guess I'll see when the weapon profiles are released.

Nah, don't worry about this. It will turn out to be fine.

Interesting to see the stat lines -

if Shadow War is any indication of things to come -

Shuriken Pistol - +2 to hit @ 0-6" Str 4 Dmg 1, -1 to save roll
Fusion Pistol - +1 to hit @ 0-4", Str 8 Dmg D6, -5 to save roll

Tau -
Pulse Rifle - Str5 Dmg 1, -2 to saves
Ion Rifle - Str 6, Dmg D3, -3 to saves
Rail Rifle - Str 6, Dmg D6, -5 to saves

The save mods in SW:A seems really way too high.

I mean -2 saves on a basic gun is nuts.

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:
What with a Dreadnought having 8 wounds, I am curious as to how many wounds would be on a Warlord Titan! It'll take a whole lot of Dakka to bring one of those down!

best guess given the 3 hp to 8 wounds a warhound's 9 hp become 24 with whatever the equivalent of 2 void shields will be

 Marmatag wrote:
The save mods in SW:A seems really way too high.

I mean -2 saves on a basic gun is nuts.

I think SW:A is mostly just a port of 2nd Ed era stats, and I would hope not the same thing as 8th ed. Although having the same weapons in each and giving them different stats would leave a higher potential for confusion.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Things that make me happy

- No AoSigmaification

Every day that goes by, this term becomes more and more vague.

What exactly were you afraid of here?

AoS reskinned and marketed as the new 40k.
There still could be a lot that I do not like that much in the new edition. ( such as the removal of templates, dirt slow orks or less customization options etc. ) But it sure isn't just AoS with a new skin.
This was what a large quantity of the people here where asking for and I am glad that they didn't go that road.

As much as I enjoy AoS, I'm glad 40k is still going to feel different. I didn't need two of the same game.

 Jancoran wrote:
Its no issue to make a Vehicle Fearless.

Jup it probably will come with its unit type / keywod

 Marmatag wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
I guess the move stat i the new initiative. So in the second round in a CC the model with the higher M will attack first. Kinda makes sense. When you move very fast you need fast reflexes. so you a more likely to have fast reflexes.

where are you reading this?

I saw this but i am just guessing:

You’ll see that the stats are still recognisably Warhammer 40,000, but with just a few changes. We’ve gained a Movement stat in exchange for a Initiative stat. With charging units now striking first, movement and co-ordination of your assault army becomes a big factor. You can also see that WS and BS are now standard rolls (Ballistic Skill sort of always was), though you can expect modifiers to both of these stats from in-game effects.

nordsturmking wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
I guess the move stat i the new initiative. So in the second round in a CC the model with the higher M will attack first. Kinda makes sense. When you move very fast you need fast reflexes. so you a more likely to have fast reflexes.

where are you reading this?

I saw this but i am just guessing:

You’ll see that the stats are still recognisably Warhammer 40,000, but with just a few changes. We’ve gained a Movement stat in exchange for a Initiative stat. With charging units now striking first, movement and co-ordination of your assault army becomes a big factor. You can also see that WS and BS are now standard rolls (Ballistic Skill sort of always was), though you can expect modifiers to both of these stats from in-game effects.

Ok, I see how you're reading it. It's an interesting thought.

But how would Thunder Hammers fall into this? A thunder hammer striking at Initiative 6 on an assault marine would be... fairly strong.

Not to mention, units moving faster already have a huge advantage in general. With the whole -save mod, +2 save won't mean much really.

With only a 5" move, i'm hoping terminators get some boost to overwatch or they're already outclassed in melee.

 Wolfblade wrote:
I'm curious as to how multiple rounds of combat work without initiative works. Does the charge just strike first every round? and WS, do marines really hit say, Lelith Hesperax on a 3+?

As opposed to a 4+?

I'm annoyed they kept Strength and toughness. I was hoping for something like:

To Wound: 4+
Damage: 1

Naaris wrote:
Interesting to see the stat lines -

if Shadow War is any indication of things to come -

Shuriken Pistol - +2 to hit @ 0-6" Str 4 Dmg 1, -1 to save roll
Fusion Pistol - +1 to hit @ 0-4", Str 8 Dmg D6, -5 to save roll

Tau -
Pulse Rifle - Str5 Dmg 1, -2 to saves
Ion Rifle - Str 6, Dmg D3, -3 to saves
Rail Rifle - Str 6, Dmg D6, -5 to saves

Cut the rend in half, saves will probably be 1d6


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:
I'm annoyed they kept Strength and toughness. I was hoping for something like:

To Wound: 4+
Damage: 1

So much this. Works almost exactly the same in the end but is just that little bit quicker.

basic marines with only 1 W.... well if just "simple" weapons like bolters will have a rend -1, unless they will have some more special rules they will disappear from the tables like happened in 2nd edition.

I am fine with this, and GW did say things would die.

8 wounds and a save at T7. Wow. Dreadnoughts might actually be useful now/

Pretty sure the Assault phase now works as IGOUGO.

So,
Player 1 charges units A B C D into Units E F G.
Player 1 activates Unit B and resolves all hand to hand and damage on Unit F
Player 2 activates Unit E and resolves all hand to hand and damage on Units A and C
Player 1 activates Unit C and resolves all hand to hand and damage on Unit E
.... rinse repeat til all units have gone.


No need for initiative in that setup. The player that charged chooses which unit goes first. Then you bounce back and forth.

CHARGE!

 Marmatag wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
I guess the move stat i the new initiative. So in the second round in a CC the model with the higher M will attack first. Kinda makes sense. When you move very fast you need fast reflexes. so you a more likely to have fast reflexes.

where are you reading this?

I assumed Charger goes first every turn and then each side can use Command points to steal first turn etc.

 Jancoran wrote:
CHARGE!

OVERWATCH!

Hahaha, I wonder how this will interact now!

 Marmatag wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:
I guess the move stat i the new initiative. So in the second round in a CC the model with the higher M will attack first. Kinda makes sense. When you move very fast you need fast reflexes. so you a more likely to have fast reflexes.

where are you reading this?

I saw this but i am just guessing:

You’ll see that the stats are still recognisably Warhammer 40,000, but with just a few changes. We’ve gained a Movement stat in exchange for a Initiative stat. With charging units now striking first, movement and co-ordination of your assault army becomes a big factor. You can also see that WS and BS are now standard rolls (Ballistic Skill sort of always was), though you can expect modifiers to both of these stats from in-game effects.

Ok, I see how you're reading it. It's an interesting thought.

But how would Thunder Hammers fall into this? A thunder hammer striking at Initiative 6 on an assault marine would be... fairly strong.

Not to mention, units moving faster already have a huge advantage in general. With the whole -save mod, +2 save won't mean much really.

With only a 5" move, i'm hoping terminators get some boost to overwatch or they're already outclassed in melee.

Thunder hammer could get something like -5 on M when it comes to who strikes first. Or it could be handeled like the CC in AoS or something else. I guess we will see tomorrow.

Take a day to digest all that, and we’ll be back tomorrow with some info on the weapon stat lines you’ll be using in the new edition.

Actually, I wonder if OVERWATCH is a command point action now?

Spend 1 command point to fire overwatch at an opponent's unit who has assaulted you this turn.


Edited: because you probably shouldn't shoot at your opponent... just his units.

One thing I've always disliked immensely in 40K, back as far as 2nd ed. was the 7+ to hit type of rolling, so a 6+, followed by a 4+.

It's a janky mechanic and they should just cut it off above 6+. So when they say "everything can hurt everything", if you have a Strength 2 weapon against a Land Raider who may be, say, Toughness 10. How will this be resolved?

Roll a 6+...followed by a 6+....followed by a 5+, etc? Re-rolling is awful unless it's kept to a real minimum. It's such a weak way out of creating real rules. I see it waaaaay too prevalent in current 40K. It's even worse when it's used en masse in large infantry units.

On the flip side, if you want everything to wound everything, you can't limit the roll to just 6+. Then you have 20-man Imperial Guard squads being "preferred" to kill large targets etc. Curious how they'll address this. How is it handled in AoS with such a huge disparity between two units?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
CHARGE!

OVERWATCH!

Hahaha, I wonder how this will interact now!

A worthy question. Overwatch seems like a cool rule to me, and I like it in Flames of War. There's just no way in modern warfare that the chargers aren't met with a complete lack of ammunition discipline. Lol.

On the other hand letting the charger go first, PERIOD seems like it really helps counterbalance things because some armies get destroyed by terrain effects and the overwatch is just insult to injury. Space Marines have it made with Grenades but not everyone is as well trained with them. =)

My Dark Eldar are kinda excited about the whole situation,,,

Flyers are an interesting case. I wonder what they will do with them... I mean the balance seems to be okay, Jets havent dominated and are seen but arent auto includes so I've felt the balance was right on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Youn wrote:
Actually, I wonder if OVERWATCH is a command point action now?

Spend 1 command point to fire overwatch at an opponent's unit who has assaulted you this turn.


Edited: because you probably shouldn't shoot at your opponent... just his units.

Right. that would make sense. So theres going to be some resource management added to the game eh?