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 Elbows wrote:
I just ate popcorn...but I'm willing to pop some more. This is gonna be good.

Yeah... I'll be the one to tell you-

Kickstarter, and getting banned from Kickstarter because of this gakshow... I honestly think that you can find other more constructive ways to entertain yourself.

To everyone- AVOID THIS AT ALL COSTS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

It will not fund, and if it does, it will not conclude well. Years of excuses, years of lies and neglect. You have only yourself to blame if you throw good money after bad.


Second for "Kickstarter"... I find it entertaining that they go after someone who funds, but not a criminal, non-concluded project. THAT in itself should be grounds to sue kickstarter for abuse and fraud...

thing about is I don't think most of those backers paid attention to the FAQ's if they did they would have noticed the miniatures they are getting are tantamount to those plastic army men you get at the five and dime or dollar store or gumball machines .

Asterios wrote:
thing about is I don't think most of those backers paid attention to the FAQ's if they did they would have noticed the miniatures they are getting are tantamount to those plastic army men you get at the five and dime or dollar store or gumball machines .

At GW prices, no less.

Could someone post a link to Carmen's outbursts on RRT? He's changed his name on this KS, no guesses why.

ced1106 wrote:
Could someone post a link to Carmen's outbursts on RRT? He's changed his name on this KS, no guesses why.

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/415122038/comments

Serious question- Who owns the molds for the old RIFTS figure range?

back in the day, there was a pretty substantial presence of them, and they were quite nice. At 25mm, they were very close, if not dead on to the RIFT's material.

Once upon a time, I had a very good run with the game, and the figures themselves were as well, interesting and would fit well into other figures ranges.

A serious project would be to just rerelease the old school figures, with a tabletop rules set. In this readers humble opinion, the efforts, hate, and dissention involved in this level of a project dooms it from the start.

 Elbows wrote:
I just ate popcorn...but I'm willing to pop some more. This is gonna be good.

Indeed, and it's only the first day!

well seems the game has lost its steam.

oh this will not go over well:

scott simpson 3 minutes ago
So let me get this straight?
A bunch of people who backed a project that failed/didn't turn out right. Are now trying to use lies and slander to try and organize the failure of a project of a company that had the NERVE to BUY a license from one of the companies that was involved in their failed project?
Oh, and to do this they are making bad faith pledges (since they are plainly not intending to honor the pledges they made to post in here)
Yeah, we should really take their word for anything.

that is from the RBG KS comments.

on a side note it seems they are losing some backers just saw them lose a $100 backer.

As I said back when RTT was all the rage and hype was running high (and I'm glad this time things are going in the right direction) don't trust anything even tangentially related to Palladium and Kevin S., no not even if it gives you assurances that it will have complete oversight.

Kev doesn't give complete oversight on projects that license out from him. If RTT wasn't enough to show folks this was the case, then I can't stress enough that Kev is the kind of person who will micro-manage projects in to oblivion.

He once hired on a freelancer to write some kind of post-apoc setting (can't even remember it now). He got the treatment, and instead of just saying to make a few changes, he just re-wrote the bloody thing.

Palladium is the company that has had a pre-order up for an RPG supplement that has been in development for over 20 years.

DON'T TRUST ANYTHING ATTACHED TO THEIR IP'S IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

I say this as someone whose first real RPG experience was with Rifts. A project like this should be drilling in to my nostalgia centres and delivering shots of pure bliss. But I'm not touching it, just like I didn't touch RTT, and just like I am going to warn everyone not to do.

This has nothing to do with the creator of the project, I don't know 'im from Adam and I don't wish him any ill will. But regardless of what the situation is behind the scenes, this is a Palladium project, just like RTT was (despite claims to the contrary) because Kev S. will not just let someone use his IP with no strings attached. So run, run as far and as fast away from this KS as possible and do not look back.

Looks great! I'm willing to assume the risk. I'm back for 2 sets.

The comments are at 360+ already on the project's page.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Serious question- Who owns the molds for the old RIFTS figure range?

back in the day, there was a pretty substantial presence of them, and they were quite nice. At 25mm, they were very close, if not dead on to the RIFT's material.

Once upon a time, I had a very good run with the game, and the figures themselves were as well, interesting and would fit well into other figures ranges.

A serious project would be to just rerelease the old school figures, with a tabletop rules set. In this readers humble opinion, the efforts, hate, and dissention involved in this level of a project dooms it from the start.

I believe Kevin owns the molds for the old metal figures. However, I believe he said in an PBWU not that long ago (ie, this year), that the person responsible for casting them is.....

*drumroll*

Carmen Bellaire.

Not that Carmen is in any way affiliated with Palladium.

 Elbows wrote:
The platform still works. There have been plenty of great successes - you just need to do research on who you're backing. Simple as that.

I've had excellent results from the companies I've used with Kickstarter with the exception of two - both of which I knew from the outset were large risks (i.e. Robotech, and Hero Quest 25th). I've no one to blame but myself. However, everything else has been fantastic (if late, that's almost always the case).

I don't back small time single-person projects...those I don't trust.

HQ25 was kicked off KS, so I don't think it counts?

Wow. The defenders of the faith are certainly out in force on the kickstarter page arent they? But then that does kind of follow and shows how close this game is to the company despite claims to the contrary.

Still it has already reached the halfway point which just goes to show. Maybe Kev will make enough this time to retire.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
The platform still works. There have been plenty of great successes - you just need to do research on who you're backing. Simple as that.

I've had excellent results from the companies I've used with Kickstarter with the exception of two - both of which I knew from the outset were large risks (i.e. Robotech, and Hero Quest 25th). I've no one to blame but myself. However, everything else has been fantastic (if late, that's almost always the case).

I don't back small time single-person projects...those I don't trust.

HQ25 was kicked off KS, so I don't think it counts?

It went to a Spanish crowd-funding site. I don't see much difference between the various crowd-funding sites. It's all the same idea/function. Indiegogo/KS/Lazanos, etc.

"it looks fantastic.
But until I can be proven wrong, Rifts BG will be overseen by Artists... not actual, real project managers.
I know the end result will be great.
I just am saying its normal for these things to get delayed.
My comments relate to actual production... not what the guys in the US are up to.
Its the Chinese.
Dealing with Chinese factories was a logistical nightmare for Robotech and is the reason its such a mess.

RRT should be considered a dry run financed from other backers, surely the mistakes taken with RRT will be avoided with Rifts BG.

The one thing that just baffles me is PB never had a pointman living over there for a few months to oversee production.
You cant trust the Chinese factories if you arent on them.
I saw pics of RRTs factory... peasant dudes in open toe sandals working industrial grade presses... its a mess over there."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is fromPB's FB page. This guy actually thinks this is a positive defense of PB and RH.

Amazing...

Somehow I still don't see June 2019 as reasonable

 n815e wrote:
"it looks fantastic.
Dealing with Chinese factories was a logistical nightmare for Robotech and is the reason its such a mess.

RRT should be considered a dry run financed from other backers, surely the mistakes taken with RRT will be avoided with Rifts BG.

The one thing that just baffles me is PB never had a pointman living over there for a few months to oversee production.
You cant trust the Chinese factories if you arent on them.
I saw pics of RRTs factory... peasant dudes in open toe sandals working industrial grade presses... its a mess over there."

There are some good ones (Cthulhu Wars used a Chinese manufacturer and it went pretty well), but you're right, after the cluster-feth that went on in RTT you'd think they would have wised up and gone with an American casting company. Even though Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear KS didn't go perfectly (delays, cut backs, some quality issues), they got 22 (?) different minis made for 1/10th the amount of money RTT drew in by keeping it local and dealing with a professional plastic model molding company. If Carmen doesn't do the same, well, expect the same results as RTT, really.

 n815e wrote:
"it looks fantastic.
But until I can be proven wrong, Rifts BG will be overseen by Artists... not actual, real project managers.
I know the end result will be great.
I just am saying its normal for these things to get delayed.
My comments relate to actual production... not what the guys in the US are up to.
Its the Chinese.
Dealing with Chinese factories was a logistical nightmare for Robotech and is the reason its such a mess.

RRT should be considered a dry run financed from other backers, surely the mistakes taken with RRT will be avoided with Rifts BG.

The one thing that just baffles me is PB never had a pointman living over there for a few months to oversee production.
You cant trust the Chinese factories if you arent on them.
I saw pics of RRTs factory... peasant dudes in open toe sandals working industrial grade presses... its a mess over there."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is fromPB's FB page. This guy actually thinks this is a positive defense of PB and RH.

So...RRT all went wrong because of the fact they used a Chinese factory. The gRifts board game, however, will be using a [fillinthebank] factory?

 n815e wrote:
"it looks fantastic.
But until I can be proven wrong, Rifts BG will be overseen by Artists... not actual, real project managers.
I know the end result will be great.
I just am saying its normal for these things to get delayed.
My comments relate to actual production... not what the guys in the US are up to.
Its the Chinese.
Dealing with Chinese factories was a logistical nightmare for Robotech and is the reason its such a mess.

RRT should be considered a dry run financed from other backers, surely the mistakes taken with RRT will be avoided with Rifts BG.

The one thing that just baffles me is PB never had a pointman living over there for a few months to oversee production.
You cant trust the Chinese factories if you arent on them.
I saw pics of RRTs factory... peasant dudes in open toe sandals working industrial grade presses... its a mess over there."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is fromPB's FB page. This guy actually thinks this is a positive defense of PB and RH.

n815e tell that guy he has no clue what hes talking about, couple of my friends design and sell custom parts for LEGO, they deal with china for production, they have no issues with their product getting made, they are one man operations and have nobody in China to "oversee" production.

as it goes PB is a joke and the RBG will go the same way of RRT, I warned them that is all I can do which is more then any of them did for me. problem is the way the funding is going on RBG it will barely fund say it gets $100K right off the top $39K will be taken by the US under taxes, not including state sales tax, and maybe even Canadian taxes (why a Canadian company would say its in the US is beyond me), and that right there might be enough to cause Carmen to kill himself.

I'll be honest with you all those so called pro- RBG backers and white knights and such are acting like they want to screw over backers and destroy Carmen, you do a kickstarter and it funds and do not complete it nor refund it, you are ruined plain and simple. you can file bankruptcy all you want but your reputation will be ruined.

evilsmurf wrote:
Wow. The defenders of the faith are certainly out in force on the kickstarter page arent they? .

It's even a lot of the same shills from back in the early 00s. It's always the same thing. Everyone else is a hater, and they always share their great testimonials on the sainthood of Unca Kev.

I find it interesting nobody is mentioning how if by chance the game is funded it could be bought for cheaper then the KS price and received sooner so why are people kickstarting again?

well this is what I sent Kickstarter about this project to see what happens:

This project is in violation of your rules and guidelines and federal law in the US:

1: this project creator states it is located in Livonia, Mi. but a check of said company in that state or even in the USA does not exist, said company on their own website does state they are located in Canada.

2: said project is selling product in their project (under add-ons) related to another company and that is just product being resold which violates your rules here: "Resale. All rewards must have been produced or designed by the project or one of its creators — no reselling things from elsewhere."

3: said project creator came onto another project and threatened the backers that if this project does not fund he will make sure the other project burns. messages can be found here: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/415122038/comments

4: furthermore I believe this project to be a shill company for Palladium Books to further defraud and bilk more backers of money after they have yet to fulfill half the rewards on their other project: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm?ref=user_menu


Addendum; furthermore I would also like to protest my banning from posting comments with no evidence of any infraction caused by me.

The thing that really got me was this line:

RRT should be considered a dry run financed from other backers, surely the mistakes taken with RRT will be avoided with Rifts BG.

It amazes me how comfortable some of the fan friends are that we got ripped off, but that's okay. And they have such faith that "true fans" such as they are going to be immune from this same behavior. "RRT backers aren't true Palladium Fans (tm), they are angry interlopers that don't understand the genius that is Kevin. They deserve to have their money stolen."

Asterios wrote:
I find it interesting nobody is mentioning how if by chance the game is funded it could be bought for cheaper then the KS price and received sooner so why are people kickstarting again?

Can you elaborate? Do you just mean from how RRT was handled? Or is there something in this campaign to indicate its cheaper at retail?

This might be a useful thing to have. I know it is bit early. But it would be good to have a reference point.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

Asterios wrote:
I find it interesting nobody is mentioning how if by chance the game is funded it could be bought for cheaper then the KS price and received sooner so why are people kickstarting again?

Can you elaborate? Do you just mean from how RRT was handled? Or is there something in this campaign to indicate its cheaper at retail?

well they already released that the MSRP for the game is $100, and we all know most online sellers like MM and such sell below MSRP with very low or free shipping and with the kickstarter charging $100 for the base game(which does not include shipping) and they even said retail will get the game before all of the backers do if not most. you do the math, which avenue will be cheaper to get them game?

but lets face facts this game will bomb hard core at retail, most of those who will buy the game are getting it now and considering the pledges are slowing down considerably, its now debatable it will even fund, furthermore the pledges will take a hit when they are forced to remove the Palladium product which violates KS's rules and so forth, the game is too high priced for what you get and the average player only the true fan friends will pay that much.

when doing board games the highest price point you want to go is $50 higher then that and your looking at lagging sales at best, and considering the miniatures will be board game pieces attached to the bases, you are not even getting miniatures, just plastic army men. which you will most likely see in bags at your local $1 store if the minis are done in China.

Army men do benefit from economy of scale, softer design, etc. But agreed they're way too expensive for what they are (particularly w dreamforge stormtroopers out there). I'd still pay a premium for certain figs like the Ley Line Walker, Combat Borg, Grackletooth, etc.

 n815e wrote:
The thing that really got me was this line:

RRT should be considered a dry run financed from other backers, surely the mistakes taken with RRT will be avoided with Rifts BG.

It amazes me how comfortable some of the fan friends are that we got ripped off, but that's okay. And they have such faith that "true fans" such as they are going to be immune from this same behavior. "RRT backers aren't true Palladium Fans (tm), they are angry interlopers that don't understand the genius that is Kevin. They deserve to have their money stolen."

Obviously they learned and it's two completely different situations and companies. In the first case of Robotech, it was Carmen working on the rules for a minis game licensed by Palladium on which he had to have everything approved by the inexperienced in the genre Kevin Siembieda despite another company doing the heavy lifting. In this case of the Rifts board game, it is Carmen working on the rules for a game with minis licensed from Palladium in which he has to have everything approved by the inexperienced Kevin Siembieda despite another company doing the heavy lifting.

That completely different set of circumstances (obviously!) is why unlike with Robotech where Palladium four years later to this day has no proper online support like a gallery, painting tips, tactics, or any other support. Carmen and his completely different Canadian company based in Wayne's garage or Alex's spare bedroom in Michigan or somesuch learned from those mistakes and that's why he was ready to go with this kickstarter with gameplay videos, concrete info on the game mechanics, set in stone manufacturing details, and online websupport like a webpage, gallery, and boardgamegeek entry. You're just a hater if you say otherwise and try to distract Rogue Heroes from answering the real, pressing, and pertinent questions in the comments like "backer: is it awesome?... RHS: Yes it is!"

 warboss wrote:

 n815e wrote:
The thing that really got me was this line:

RRT should be considered a dry run financed from other backers, surely the mistakes taken with RRT will be avoided with Rifts BG.

It amazes me how comfortable some of the fan friends are that we got ripped off, but that's okay. And they have such faith that "true fans" such as they are going to be immune from this same behavior. "RRT backers aren't true Palladium Fans (tm), they are angry interlopers that don't understand the genius that is Kevin. They deserve to have their money stolen."

Obviously they learned and it's two completely different situations and companies. In the first case of Robotech, it was Carmen working on the rules for a minis game licensed by Palladium on which he had to have everything approved by the inexperienced in the genre Kevin Siembieda despite another company doing the heavy lifting. In this case of the Rifts board game, it is Carmen working on the rules for a game with minis licensed from Palladium in which he has to have everything approved by the inexperienced Kevin Siembieda despite another company doing the heavy lifting.

That completely different set of circumstances (obviously!) is why unlike with Robotech where Palladium four years later to this day has no proper online support like a gallery, painting tips, tactics, or any other support. Carmen and his completely different Canadian company based in Wayne's garage or Alex's spare bedroom in Michigan or somesuch learned from those mistakes and that's why he was ready to go with this kickstarter with gameplay videos, concrete info on the game mechanics, set in stone manufacturing details, and online websupport like a webpage, gallery, and boardgamegeek entry. You're just a hater if you say otherwise and try to distract Rogue Heroes from answering the real, pressing, and pertinent questions in the comments like "backer: is it awesome?... RHS: Yes it is!"

you're dripping a little sarcasm there