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It's almost as if Carmen doesn't seem to realize that Palladium's talk of being in conference with a 'secret manufacturer that they can't reveal for reasons' has laid the groundwork for being about the same as saying he doesn't have one.

Not worried about a manufacturer.
Not worried about potential shipping complications.
Kevin said a two sided board was AWESOME, backers want interlocking tiles to change up a board? They don't know what AWESOME is!
Playtesters? Kevin, Wayne, and NMI said it was awesome! Outside playtesting is for designers that lack faith in their game. You trying to tell me that SPI and Avalon Hill used to have like gaggles of college students come in and put a new game through the paces before selling it? What do they know they went out of business!

I do applaud those asking straight forward questions that should be easy to answer and seeing the kind of obfuscation Rogue Heroes is casting where it should be easily transparent.

To those egging him on with more aggressive talk, I'd seriously relax because there's no need to be hostile as Rogue Heroes is demonstrating an inability to answer simple game and manufacturing related questions no need to make it any more hostile than it's been.

give you an idea how much they have lost compared to an hour ago: (and they gained backers in that hour but lost some and money too.)

(from kicktraq)
Backers: 532
Average Daily Pledges: $28,953
Average Pledge Per Backer: $109

Funding: $57,906 of $100,000
Dates: May 8th -> Jun 4th (27 days)
Project By: Rogue Heroes Publishing

right now:

$57,776
pledged of $100,000 goal
533

There's always backsliding during the middle stretch of the kickstarter, the majority comes in during the first two days and the last two days with the middle stretch losing some funding because backers are adjusting their pledges, or switching to other projects, etc. Unless you see a massive backslide a few days going negative isn't abnormal. The difference of $1,000 could be a single backer, so it's hardly chicken little territory. Some of the backers for RRT pledged for thousand dollars so maybe one of those whale types changed their pledge?

If things start to backslide more than about 5%-10% then I think it's warranted to start looking for direct connections with the comments and postings.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
"“
@ End Times: I have a manufacturer choose, have my price quotes from them and I will be ready to go once all the final details are sorted. But I will not state who I will be using here, its bad industry practice to do so.

May 9 2017 on Rifts® Board Game"

Holy fartballs. It's now bad practice to tell who is making the figures?

Yes and no,

If you say you're using Mr Ying's Figure Emporium and then down the road they jack the price up to something you can't afford (or you lowballed your costs expecting a higher KS take than you got), or they turn around and say sorry, we're now booked up for the next decade making happy meal toys you may not be able to use them and people get upset

(you might also worry about a competitor getting in their first and taking up the space you expected to get)

so if you were somebody I trusted I'd be fine with a general idea of the quality level eg a prototype, or another game the factory was involve with (even if they aren't identified)

after all even mantic are only saying 'old manufacturer' and 'new manufacturer' when somethings clearly gone wrong with their vehicle kit manufacture



however in this case it's not going to help as this is one where saying where things are going to get done is probably needed

 paulson games wrote:
There's always backsliding during the middle stretch of the kickstarter, the majority comes in during the first two days and the last two days with the middle stretch losing some funding because backers are adjusting their pledges, or switching to other projects, etc. Unless you see a massive backslide a few days going negative isn't abnormal. The difference of $1,000 could be a single backer, so it's hardly chicken little territory. Some of the backers for RRT pledged for thousand dollars so maybe one of those whale types changed their pledge?

If things start to backslide more than about 5%-10% then I think it's warranted to start looking for direct connections with the comments and postings.

well we are at day 2 and already it slid down $2K or so since it was near $59K when RH made their post about not giving up their manufacturer because they were afraid someone would say something to them.

also when you compare the first days numbers:

day 1: $48,161
day 2: $9,615

that is a fairly big dip and it will only get worse from here on out and with the potential of even more dropping their pledges and very few new ones being picked up.

in fact would not be surprised if a bunch of their "Fans" who also worked on the project and signed up as backers, will back out too to avoid losing money.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
however in this case it's not going to help as this is one where saying where things are going to get done is probably needed

Yep. IIRC, On Conan and Cthulhu Wars, two First Created projects with staff more experienced than Carmen, they at least told backers they were using Ludofact Asia and Panda Games.

Update says Drew's taking over the communication from Carmen. While I expect a larger company to use a representative, I'm sure they're attempting to insulate Carmen from criticism during the KS. That which is shielded from us, gives me no confidence with the stress of facing KS fulfillment. You can find Drew's name in this Palladium update: http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=697:palladium-booksr-weekly-update-december-6-2013&Itemid=183

EDIT: Comments section says they're still looking for quotes. Uh... sounds familiar. I forgot the KS, but I've heard of manufacturers *raising* their quotes once they found out how much money the KS made.

ced1106 wrote:
Update says Drew's taking over the communication from Carmen.

Carmen had some serious "manic muscles" when he came barging into RRT.

If he can't handle being point during the KS campaign, what should people expect when the rush wears off and it's time to deliver?

Who is this AMP9701 guy in the comments? Is he a "collaborator"?

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/566671158/comments

Some of the stuff he's saying is copy pasted from Palladium over the past 3-4 years and I'm not sure if he came to the same groupthink conclusion that is spoon fed to all white knights or if he's just being sarcastic and purposely quoting Kevin's useless years of Robotech platitudes as reassurances for this project.

Stepping down because no one wants to jump in bed with a kickstarter that has terms and conditions with verbiage to allow for ALL the shenanigans Palladium pulled? When asked a few basic questions he sounds almost verbatim like Palladium does now regarding their failure to do anything for the past three years. What did he expect? For all the supposed distance Carmen's remarks sound like a mimic of Unca Kev only Carmen can't get away with it because he doesn't have the money yet. He really should have figured out his answers to these questions from day one. What did he expect? He found out $50k worth of people will throw money at him blindly but he's going to have to work for the other half and actually be transparent. You can only tell backers to shut up with their pesky questions AFTER you've bilked them out of their hard earned Quatloos.

Completely in accordance with their "we can change anything at anytime" disclaimer, you could pledge for a board game with dozens of minis and instead 4 years later get a photocopied pamphlet and a sheet of paper minis and it would all be good according to the contract you signed as a backer. Convienently, the guy who for years has been selling paper "miniatures" under Palladium's banner on drivethrurpg is a comments white knight for them and was IIRC a listed artist (madmanmike) on the front page graphics previously although that seems to have been removed in their latest revision (he also doesn't have the "collaborator" label on his profile).

edit: he is still listed in the text credits. I'll let Jaymz or someone more in the know double check me but I'm pretty sure "Mike Leonard" is madmanmike from my years mostly lurking on the Palladium forums.

 warboss wrote:
Who is this AMP9701 guy in the comments? Is he a "collaborator"?

https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/566671158/comments

Some of the stuff he's saying is copy pasted from Palladium over the past 3-4 years and I'm not sure if he came to the same groupthink conclusion that is spoon fed to all white knights or if he's just being sarcastic and purposely quoting Kevin's useless years of Robotech platitudes as reassurances for this project.

i'm gonna say hes a plant, why? because the same things hes accusing the RBG backers of doing he did on other projects he backed. which I find odd accuse other projects of the same thing he finds ok with RBG.

If he's a plant, there's a whole lotta fever going on -- HAYfever!

Looks like they're in that classic, "in the absence of no information, the internet will argue a lot and make something up", KS comments are debating about the manufacturer. One of the posters says not to do the miniatures in China. I guess he expects Carmen to afford what 99.99% of all plastic injection molding KS cannot. AMP: "I was thinking that a manufacturer in China is a bad thing, but others are noting that mostly this work is done in China and what really matters is the company, Admittedly I don't know much about this Rogue heroes or the other KS but I'm figuring it out." AMP also backed Up Front and has FOUR -- count 'em -- FOUR KS he's backed. Yeah, wise to take KS advice from him!

Just saw the first two-minute gameplay video. Five years to develop this. It's a miniatures skirmish game where you play a card to give a bonus to your die roll to hit, you opponent may play a card to give a bonus to his die to defend, and other cards affect damage. I think I saw this sort of mechanic in... everywhere else. RIFTS fans should be okay with the mechanic. Carmen's called this a "dudes on a map" game in the PB forums (no, "dudes on a map" is Blood Rage and Rising Sun), and a Descent-like game (no, Descent has an Overlord player or app).

 warboss wrote:

edit: he is still listed in the text credits. I'll let Jaymz or someone more in the know double check me but I'm pretty sure "Mike Leonard" is madmanmike from my years mostly lurking on the Palladium forums.

Yeah... that sounds right... he is the guy doing the poser pictures... can't force myself to call it artwork.

ced1106 wrote:
If he's a plant, there's a whole lotta fever going on -- HAYfever!

oh I forgot too mention according to him he has the same attorney as Kevin does which considering attorney client privilege it behooves one to wonder how AMP would know he had the same attorney as Kevin unless Kevin and him are friends or such?

also it beggars the question, how many shills does PB/RH have on that project?

If this doesn't fund, no worries. Carmen will just cancel this KS and relaunch it with a much lowered funding goal that will coincide greatly with the previously KSed amount

Sining wrote:
If this doesn't fund, no worries. Carmen will just cancel this KS and relaunch it with a much lowered funding goal that will coincide greatly with the previously KSed amount

Carmen could not even complete the project with but a $100K he definitely could not do it with less then that.

These people in full fan support of this just makes me shake my head.

I like Rifts, always have...but I can read and know a when I see a bad investment.

Shame really, because KS is perfect for companies like Palladium who need that extra push to help them get more recognition.
But you have to follow through or else people only know you for how you handle yourself in bad times.

Is anyone defending them over there NOT on the payroll?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, anyone noticed yet that they've got ~550 pledges at this point, and about 50 people listed in their credits?

That's about 10% of their pledges coming from people whose name is actually on it. That's...special?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And wow, that AMP9701 guy sounds exactly like Rick. Including the broken shift key.

Merijeek wrote:

And wow, that AMP9701 guy sounds exactly like Rick. Including the broken shift key.

if there was a certain finger icon I'd give it to you

Merijeek wrote:
Is anyone defending them over there NOT on the payroll?

It's not payroll. It's worse. Some people refuse to admit they're wrong, so, rather than acknowledge evidence, will dig in their heels and entrench themselves further in their position. On the internet, it's typically calling the opposition "haters", which is the socially acceptable way of labeling and dehumanizing others, much like people do when making racist comments or propaganda machines do against in a war against an enemy. Here's a link to a Quora thread for some psychological reasons why some people cannot be wrong. Yes, "narcissism" is mentioned.

https://www.quora.com/Debate-Why-do-some-particularly-argumentative-people-refuse-to-be-wrong-or-have-to-be-correct




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ProtoClone wrote:
These people in full fan support of this just makes me shake my head.

Hey, some people think KS is a store!

Some people WANT something to happen so much (and either have enough discretionary income, or lack basic budget skills) enough that they'll cut a check. Or, in the case of KS, Stripe the credit card. They will call themselves the victims, they will see themselves as martyrs. They are fighting the man! They will support the cause! They are special snowflakes. They'll be out $100 plus shipping, too. Viva la revolution!

 TwoGunBob wrote:
Stepping down because no one wants to jump in bed with a kickstarter that has terms and conditions with verbiage to allow for ALL the shenanigans Palladium pulled? When asked a few basic questions he sounds almost verbatim like Palladium does now regarding their failure to do anything for the past three years. What did he expect? For all the supposed distance Carmen's remarks sound like a mimic of Unca Kev only Carmen can't get away with it because he doesn't have the money yet. He really should have figured out his answers to these questions from day one. What did he expect? He found out $50k worth of people will throw money at him blindly but he's going to have to work for the other half and actually be transparent. You can only tell backers to shut up with their pesky questions AFTER you've bilked them out of their hard earned Quatloos.

If you haven't figured it out... THIS is a Palladium sock monkey. The whole project is a Gakshow of epic proportions, bordering on a presale Garage sale site. It is as if I took my old stuff from my closet and am offering it as "Presale " stretch goals. If you don't know, there is a LOT more bang to noise on the topic of Palladium, then there is in any other game company known to man. It is almost as if they attract the lowest form of gamer, the sycophant.

Like has been said, get the popcorn and watch the sparks fly.

Okay, we have pics of the painted 3D prints of the models in the first post of this thread and the KS has some god-awful, shadow-shrouded pics of the "minis" on the KS turning what was a halfway professional looking page into amateur night. Ditto for the laminated and clearly home-printed materials (half of which said materials DON'T come with the KS).

Why aren't Elysium6's pics on the KS page? They're a hundred times better than what's there now.

 Stormonu wrote:
Okay, we have pics of the painted 3D prints of the models in the first post of this thread and the KS has some god-awful, shadow-shrouded pics of the "minis" on the KS turning what was a halfway professional looking page into amateur night. Ditto for the laminated and clearly home-printed materials (half of which said materials DON'T come with the KS).

Why aren't Elysium6's pics on the KS page? They're a hundred times better than what's there now.

And THAT my friend- is the $1,000.00 question.

 Grot 6 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Okay, we have pics of the painted 3D prints of the models in the first post of this thread and the KS has some god-awful, shadow-shrouded pics of the "minis" on the KS turning what was a halfway professional looking page into amateur night. Ditto for the laminated and clearly home-printed materials (half of which said materials DON'T come with the KS).

Why aren't Elysium6's pics on the KS page? They're a hundred times better than what's there now.

And THAT my friend- is the $1,000.00 question.

Did you say $1,000.00??? Kevin wants to be your friend

 warboss wrote:
Completely in accordance with their "we can change anything at anytime" disclaimer, you could pledge for a board game with dozens of minis and instead 4 years later get a photocopied pamphlet and a sheet of paper minis and it would all be good according to the contract you signed as a backer. Convienently, the guy who for years has been selling paper "miniatures" under Palladium's banner on drivethrurpg is a comments white knight for them and was IIRC a listed artist (madmanmike) on the front page graphics previously although that seems to have been removed in their latest revision (he also doesn't have the "collaborator" label on his profile).

edit: he is still listed in the text credits. I'll let Jaymz or someone more in the know double check me but I'm pretty sure "Mike Leonard" is madmanmike from my years mostly lurking on the Palladium forums.

So, what you're saying is that everyone working for Rogue Heroes works for PB and that all PB staff works for Rogue Heroes, but they are in no way or form the same company, is that it?

Okay,

And just like that I'm back and in before the sunrises... Project is at 59K

And guess what, I did a search of the stats on my blog. And while I can't search the specific IPs I have a 8 IP locater (someone searching for me) searches at my blog... I honestly, thought someone from here had sent me those bad emails. And now I don't think so (do I sound crazy, yet). I'm not 100% but someone is defiantly looking into me and my actual physical location. Or am I still crazy... And someone here is having a bit of fun? This has sparked me to action. That's what I get I suppose being dumb enough to use my own name in some of my forums... Ah well.

I made a pic, but I'll have to load it up to share it.

Yes, I'm a nerd and the coffee is just hitting me.

Game on-




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh! and I forgot... I plan to take some actions. Please in whatever I post steal it liberally as it relates to the RBG Kickstarter. Just think of me as Professor Green from Clue. Memes welcome if you have them...lol

Item One: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1811029

In that above link we get this gem from KS; bolded emphasis is mine:

"He had not been around Palladium Books much the past 3-4 years, because he was busy creating games for his own fledgling company, Rogue Heroes LLC, which he has hopes to launch in spectacular fashion with the Rifts® Board Game as his first release. This would be done via a Kickstarter campaign in April, 2017. In addition to this endeavor, Carmen works a full-time, 9-5 job, as well as doing freelance game design for Upper Deck.

1) Doing a google search of to see what sort of games this fledgling company has so far developed, reveals... NOTHING! Maybe we misunderstand the word fledgling though...

Def: "a person or organization that is immature, inexperienced, or underdeveloped." Interesting choice of words there Mr. S I couldn't have said it better myself...

2) Lets catch that second bold, by doing a google search of: "Carmen Bellaire, Upper Deck"

This reveals: https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/34155/upper-deck-teases-deus-machina-miniatures-game

Which reveals (and again bold is my emphasis...

"...and shared information on an upcoming miniatures game Deus Machina The game is designed by Carmen Bellaire. “He’s done a lot of work on old style RPG games,” Brenner shared. “He’s done some work for Palladium. He’s done a lot of sourcebook writing, he’s a really talented guy. He’s designed a pretty good system here as well.”

Now a search of Deus Machina reveals nothing the game is not (if it will be), yet released. However Brenner is a minor (within the niche of games at least) celebrity. And he is about and on Board Game Geek so I shot him (you're welcome) the following PM.


Hello Jason,

Good-Morning. My apologies for bothering you in such a random fashion. Carmen Bellaire has launched a crowdsource for his own company. Associates, are making note that he is a freelancer p/t for Upper Deck.

I can't find Carmen's name listed as a creator with the exception of "Deus Machina." Which after a search of that I get you, but nothing about the game, because it hasn't been produced/released.

Is Carmen still freelancing/consulting with Upper Deck? Has he designed or acted as a consultant for any other games, which have been produced, or will be?

Or is it just that my "google-fu" is not as strong as I thought...

If you have time, and thanks

We wait patiently on this, while searching for other nuggets to investigate!

(if someone has the meme, of professor green getting smacked after screaming, "Mrs Peacock was a man?" I think it would be appropriate to meme it now!)

Closest I could manage:



Which is kind of backwards, which is kind of sad.

And if you have specific IPs, share them. Such things can be checked out by the right people.

And our AMP troll is pretty good. He got me for a bit, even though he seemed to be too insane to be real:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Someone needs to fess up via PM so I know who you are. Because it's almost certainly one of you reprobates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fairly certain he's mocking Rick, too, so obviously that's also tickling me right now.

The comments over there are getting better and better.

 Albertorius wrote:

So, what you're saying is that everyone working for Rogue Heroes works for PB and that all PB staff works for Rogue Heroes, but they are in no way or form the same company, is that it?

Nope. I'm saying that you have alot of same key people in the same key roles doing the same key jobs (Carmen is developing rules, palladium artists are doing art, Kevin is approving, Wayne is likely editing, etc) for money... but now with TWO additional different company names thrown into the mix and a different license agreement to muddy the waters. It's two because Rogue Heroes is legally two different new start up companies now, one in the US and the other in Canada. I wouldn't go as far as saying "everyone" though is on staff at all three as I don't have access to any info beyond the info they supply themselves..

Maybe by Friday Unca Kevster will already be taking the reigns of kickstarter communications over. They're going through Palladium employees faster than that burrito I ate last night is going through my digestive system.