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So, when do people think questions will be "answered" ("answered" in this case meaning some sort of response to silence the filthy peasants) and when will the questions be answered (answered in this case meaning cherry picked to answer only questions that they feel like answering)?

I'm going for "answered" Friday if the PBWU is late from its usual Thursday slot, and a week later for cherry-picked answers to the equivalent of "Carmen, if you were a RIFTS(TM) character, what OCC would you be? And you can't say Juicer you buff bastard!"

@Asterios

if you are referring to Carmen's attempted Suicide that was no longer personal or private when Kevin blasted it on the open internet, furthermore it is a very serious factor to consider when backing a project by the same person since such an action can effect the outcome of said project. also on a side note you have to remember that Carmen and his collaborators and anyone with access to that project controls, have access to your e-mail and address and other personal information, thankfully not your credit card info.

Certainly, as to being “no longer private,” you are right. As to being personal, you are 101% incorrect, the act at hand, is very personal thing.

Whether it is shared publically or not, should be at the sole discretions of the person experiencing it. While many have said, that it was inappropriate for Kevin Siembieda to make a remark on the event… It’s also easy to forget, that we must (heavy opinion) even take care in how we approach those remarks, based on our comments of them…

I’m not worried about an act, which I cannot confirm or deny as *proof* of anything. That makes no sense, since the act is technically still in question.

As others have said we are not even sure if the act itself is authentic. But if there is even a 1% chance that it actually occurred, I have to respect it and do my best to tread carefully. That is my choice.

What I think about, is why the act was publically remarked on in the RRT Kickstarter to begin with. *Speculation time!*

At this point, whether things have occurred or not occurred I’m of the strong believe that Palladium is running a looooong con. They are out of money and cannot complete the project. If I was in this position and I was evil. Their behavior, very much reflects what I would do.

It makes sense to not do the right thing and end RRT, to continue on with platitudes and the like because the longer it goes, no matter how much money each individual backer pitched in the less connected those backers will be to the project.

Most Backers don’t comment to much over at the RRT comments parade and if they do most only 3 or four times a year… Many admit, their disinterest in the project. A lot of Kickstarter backers reference getting (late) packages of Kick Starters they have forgot they backed! Worse others are the white knights of Palladium Books, who are willing to eat any of the poop that Palladium produces.

Gawd, I mean you all know the updates over there better than I do, and I’ve been following it a lot…

“At this time we are working on getting quotes for…blah blah blah, we’d like to tell you more, but we are very excited at the possibility… of um…. But we’d like to but, we can’t because of um… uh “reasons” but fear not chump this project is going to be an absolute… boil on your a$$.. I mean it is boiling hot!? With mouthwatering minis! They are going to be delicious… scrumptious… mouther watering… did I say hot? Yes! Hot! And we have just renewed the license for the RIFTs movie deal … Written and playtest by…. Oh-crap! Squirls…! I almost forgot… ™©™™™"

"Alex! Edit these in later… but, first draw my bath minion!"

After writing that, I forgot my point… But it made me laugh writing it so I win.

WithintheDungeon wrote:
@Asterios

if you are referring to Carmen's attempted Suicide that was no longer personal or private when Kevin blasted it on the open internet, furthermore it is a very serious factor to consider when backing a project by the same person since such an action can effect the outcome of said project. also on a side note you have to remember that Carmen and his collaborators and anyone with access to that project controls, have access to your e-mail and address and other personal information, thankfully not your credit card info.

Certainly, as to being “no longer private,” you are right. As to being personal, you are 101% incorrect, the act at hand, is very personal thing.

Whether it is shared publically or not, should be at the sole discretions of the person experiencing it. While many have said, that it was inappropriate for Kevin Siembieda to make a remark on the event… It’s also easy to forget, that we must (heavy opinion) even take care in how we approach those remarks, based on our comments of them…

I’m not worried about an act, which I cannot confirm or deny as *proof* of anything. That makes no sense, since the act is technically still in question.

As others have said we are not even sure if the act itself is authentic. But if there is even a 1% chance that it actually occurred, I have to respect it and do my best to tread carefully. That is my choice.

What I think about, is why the act was publically remarked on in the RRT Kickstarter to begin with. *Speculation time!*

At this point, whether things have occurred or not occurred I’m of the strong believe that Palladium is running a looooong con. They are out of money and cannot complete the project. If I was in this position and I was evil. Their behavior, very much reflects what I would do.

It makes sense to not do the right thing and end RRT, to continue on with platitudes and the like because the longer it goes, no matter how much money each individual backer pitched in the less connected those backers will be to the project.

Most Backers don’t comment to much over at the RRT comments parade and if they do most only 3 or four times a year… Many admit, their disinterest in the project. A lot of Kickstarter backers reference getting (late) packages of Kick Starters they have forgot they backed! Worse others are the white knights of Palladium Books, who are willing to eat any of the poop that Palladium produces.

Gawd, I mean you all know the updates over there better than I do, and I’ve been following it a lot…

“At this time we are working on getting quotes for…blah blah blah, we’d like to tell you more, but we are very excited at the possibility… of um…. But we’d like to but, we can’t because of um… uh “reasons” but fear not chump this project is going to be an absolute… boil on your a$$.. I mean it is boiling hot!? With mouthwatering minis! They are going to be delicious… scrumptious… mouther watering… did I say hot? Yes! Hot! And we have just renewed the license for the RIFTs movie deal … Written and playtest by…. Oh-crap! Squirls…! I almost forgot… ™©™™™"

"Alex! Edit these in later… but, first draw my bath minion!"

After writing that, I forgot my point… But it made me laugh writing it so I win.

the thing is, it is still information that is tantamount for an investor to know, and trust me big time investors dig up everything, furthermore the thing that should worry everyone is you saw how Andrew Cooke acted now remember he and several others of probable like mindedness have access to our personal information, if that does not give you pause nothing will.

Different strokes for different folks... But the thing is Palladium is such an irrational master of absolute ineptitude, that asking a few well placed legit questions, will get the job done with a clean conscience... Such is the effort and trouble that distinguish decent people, from Palladium Books and their associates.

WithintheDungeon wrote:
What I think about, is why the act was publically remarked on in the RRT Kickstarter to begin with. *Speculation time!*

I thought it was 'cuz Kevin cannot distinguish between his own personal life and his business. So it follows that he does not see the same for others.

Speaking of following, I've always followed Hanlon's Razor: :"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", although I usually say incompetence rather than stupidity. And, in Kevin's case, lack of awareness.

I occasionally see small-company KS creators explain a delay with a personal emergency (saying more than "because of personal emergencies"), so I didn't react as negatively as others did to Kevin mentioning Carmen's suicide.

I'm sure others do not share the same view, but, since I want to know anything that might impact a project, I am definitely interested in any personal problems a creator might have,

Any boardgamers here remember this project? How's Mr. Sun doing? : http://kickfailure.com/2013/04/17/the-sad-story-of-katalyka/

So they've finally uploaded pictures of the painted miniatures on the KS page and seriously, I can't even believe how sloppily they did it. At least when the original painted uploaded them here, they were clear and brightly lit. You could see all the miniatures clearly. On the KS page...it's dark and out of focus...wtf

How do you botch up EVEN this????



I mean, compare these pics to page 2 on this thread. And these are the ONLY pictures available on the KS page.

The cyborg and ley line walker are actually probably fairly well painted. It's just hard to tell because they're backlit so badly.

Because everyone knows you take a picture of something with the sun right behind it.

I like that they couldn't even be bothered to straighten the guns on half the minis to make at least LOOK like they were made from decent quality material.

 warboss wrote:
Apparently the glitterboy robot and pilot were added as an option $28 add on.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rogueheroes/rifts-board-game/posts/1881218

Maybe at some point it'll be value added to the relatively anemic box contents once a higher stretch goal is met.

Good lord, that price is GW levels of arrogance.

Hey, I was happy he could show something besides renders!

But, yeah, it's been one amateurish mistake after another. Another visual mistake they made was the background of the game play. Don't use banners that distract the viewer from the game and are so busy that it's hard to see the game board!

The graphics showing the contents are better than that postcard ad, but do not use yellow font on a red background: https://www.sitepoint.com/10-troublesome-colors-to-avoid-in-your-advertising/

Sining wrote:
So they've finally uploaded pictures of the painted miniatures on the KS page and seriously, I can't even believe how sloppily they did it. At least when the original painted uploaded them here, they were clear and brightly lit. You could see all the miniatures clearly. On the KS page...it's dark and out of focus...wtf

How do you botch up EVEN this????



I mean, compare these pics to page 2 on this thread. And these are the ONLY pictures available on the KS page.

Honestly, with the polish the rest of the page had, and that (as far as I'm aware) the pics weren't on that page until today, I think it was a last minute, rushed attempt to show "hey guys, don't worry - this isn't a bunch of renders - we've got real product RIGHT HERE!!!!" and try to cut off any appearance that it is vaporware like RRT Wave 2.

Reminds me of that KS where people asked for a pic of a mini against a tape measure to show scale, so they posted a pic of a tape measure laying next to a mini...

I mean how hard is it to take a proper photo of a miniatures? I've taken amateur photos of my painted pics all the time and they're way better than that. Especially since you can just look at the pic immediately after taking it and saying 'nah, I can retake it'.

Instead, this was...good enough for them? They decided, heck I can't spare 2s to redo the picture. Better get that graphic up now.

Doesn't bode well for future management

WithintheDungeon wrote:
Different strokes for different folks... But the thing is Palladium is such an irrational master of absolute ineptitude, that asking a few well placed legit questions, will get the job done with a clean conscience... Such is the effort and trouble that distinguish decent people, from Palladium Books and their associates.

Normally I'd agree if this was some random individual on the Internet or even someone like Wayne who's an employee off to the side; that's a very personal thing that shouldn't really be discussed by the general public who don't know any of the people or their families.

However, Carmen is coming to that general public with his hand out asking to be taken at his word that he's going to follow through. If Rogue Heroes is as small as we're supposed to believe, then his personal business can readily become fair game. Was Kevin an insane donkeycave for broadcasting details to the world? Absolutely; as one co-worker put it "so not only is he a terrible businessman, he's a terrible human being too." Now that it's out there though, it IS a pertinent fact that one of, if not THE, principals of the project is in treatment for mental illness (or at least should be; one doesn't recover from that deep-rooted of an issue in the short time that's passed...and if he isn't that's categorically worse).

What is their contingency plan if Carmen's healthcare professional says he has to stop working on the project? While I dislike thinking someone would be so reprehensible, that would be an awfully convenient "walk away" excuse that the project is on "indefinite hold" because a person's life is more important than a board game. While the latter part is true, it would fall under the "then he wasn't in a state to be taking people's money in the first place" which loops us back to it being highly relevant thanks to Kevin's insanely poor judgement and multi-year mishandling of an existing project since it would have never happened had PB not screwed up so royally as to produce that ire.

I don't even want to think about the possibility of PB lying about the incident; that prospect is too disgusting to put properly into words.

@Sining
Maybe that could be Rogue Heroes slogan, "We believe in stealing your money Now!"

 Krinsath wrote:

WithintheDungeon wrote:
Different strokes for different folks... But the thing is Palladium is such an irrational master of absolute ineptitude, that asking a few well placed legit questions, will get the job done with a clean conscience... Such is the effort and trouble that distinguish decent people, from Palladium Books and their associates.

However, Carmen is coming to that general public with his hand out asking to be taken at his word that he's going to follow through. If Rogue Heroes is as small as we're supposed to believe, then his personal business can readily become fair game. Was Kevin an insane donkeycave for broadcasting details to the world? Absolutely; as one co-worker put it "so not only is he a terrible businessman, he's a terrible human being too." Now that it's out there though, it IS a pertinent fact that one of, if not THE, principals of the project is in treatment for mental illness (or at least should be; one doesn't recover from that deep-rooted of an issue in the short time that's passed...and if he isn't that's categorically worse).

Assuming, of course, it's not all a steaming load of crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...oh, and from their video, I'm not buying that "millions" have played Rifts(c)(r)(tm).

But anyway, I think we should all order a copy so that we can battle against the nefarious forces of the "Coalitio". Maybe that's what they call themselves closer to the Mexican border?

A tid bit from my last check of the comments...

Andrew Cooke Collaborator 22 minutes ago

@elizabeth The starting box has 20 miniatures, but we hope to a successful Kickstarter will have a final box count of 40 minatures -- 8 heroes and 32 Coalition troops (Dead Boys, Dog Boys, and Skelebots). See tomorrow's revealed stretch goals.

Hindsight is 20/20 but they probably should have led with *THAT* and increased the initial funding goal until an actual industry comparable board game was offered. It does them no good to put out an anemic half model count box with B&W rules (probably 2 column rpg style formating) and thin paper mats. I understand the need for stretch goals and the psychology behind funding early but I'm not sure it was the best course of action in this case.

I'm surprised frankly it hasn't funded. I'll admit I was a bit salty when the Rifts RPG funded so quickly and to the amount that it did but I suppose that was a testament to the long standing *GOOD* reputation of the PEG folks overcoming the bad association inherent in anything Palladium related. I chalked it up last year to folks just not caring about Robotech backers as long as they got their goodies and I still stand by that lack of gamer solidarity but it does seem that the message at least somewhat got through about just how shady this endeavor is. I still don't think any sizeable number of folks are staying away out of solidarity with Robotech backers but at least they seem to be looking out for their own well being.

 Stormonu wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Apparently the glitterboy robot and pilot were added as an option $28 add on.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rogueheroes/rifts-board-game/posts/1881218

Maybe at some point it'll be value added to the relatively anemic box contents once a higher stretch goal is met.

Good lord, that price is GW levels of arrogance.

Let's be honest, GW isn't _that_ arrogant these days.

 warboss wrote:
A tid bit from my last check of the comments...

Andrew Cooke Collaborator 22 minutes ago

@elizabeth The starting box has 20 miniatures, but we hope to a successful Kickstarter will have a final box count of 40 minatures -- 8 heroes and 32 Coalition troops (Dead Boys, Dog Boys, and Skelebots). See tomorrow's revealed stretch goals.

Hindsight is 20/20 but they probably should have led with *THAT* and increased the initial funding goal until an actual industry comparable board game was offered. It does them no good to put out an anemic half model count box with B&W rules (probably 2 column rpg style formating) and thin paper mats. I understand the need for stretch goals and the psychology behind funding early but I'm not sure it was the best course of action in this case.

I'm surprised frankly it hasn't funded. I'll admit I was a bit salty when the Rifts RPG funded so quickly and to the amount that it did but I suppose that was a testament to the long standing *GOOD* reputation of the PEG folks overcoming the bad association inherent in anything Palladium related. I chalked it up last year to folks just not caring about Robotech backers as long as they got their goodies and I still stand by that lack of gamer solidarity but it does seem that the message at least somewhat got through about just how shady this endeavor is. I still don't think any sizeable number of folks are staying away out of solidarity with Robotech backers but at least they seem to be looking out for their own well being.

Yeah, well, there's two facets to that.

First, as you said, PEG had some standing and are quite loved. So, there was not a whole lot of gak-stirring inflicted on that KS. I know I never even bothered to poke my head in the comments.

Two, PEG wasn't PB. RH absolutely is, and not only did they hide it badly, they hid it insultingly badly. Have you noticed they haven't even defended themselves against it? They just ignore it, because they know it's so fething transparent.

30k as a stretchgoal to get a color rulebook. I wonder how much the SG increase will be to get 40 figures. 200k?

I mean, for 100k, you're getting...20 minis and a paper mat. That's pretty unimpressive.

 Ctaylor wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Apparently the glitterboy robot and pilot were added as an option $28 add on.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rogueheroes/rifts-board-game/posts/1881218

Maybe at some point it'll be value added to the relatively anemic box contents once a higher stretch goal is met.

Good lord, that price is GW levels of arrogance.

Let's be honest, GW isn't _that_ arrogant these days.

They've sort of shifted over to smug these days.

 warboss wrote:
A tid bit from my last check of the comments...

Andrew Cooke Collaborator 22 minutes ago

@elizabeth The starting box has 20 miniatures, but we hope to a successful Kickstarter will have a final box count of 40 minatures -- 8 heroes and 32 Coalition troops (Dead Boys, Dog Boys, and Skelebots). See tomorrow's revealed stretch goals.

Hindsight is 20/20 but they probably should have led with *THAT* and increased the initial funding goal until an actual industry comparable board game was offered. It does them no good to put out an anemic half model count box with B&W rules (probably 2 column rpg style formating) and thin paper mats. I understand the need for stretch goals and the psychology behind funding early but I'm not sure it was the best course of action in this case.

I'm surprised frankly it hasn't funded. I'll admit I was a bit salty when the Rifts RPG funded so quickly and to the amount that it did but I suppose that was a testament to the long standing *GOOD* reputation of the PEG folks overcoming the bad association inherent in anything Palladium related. I chalked it up last year to folks just not caring about Robotech backers as long as they got their goodies and I still stand by that lack of gamer solidarity but it does seem that the message at least somewhat got through about just how shady this endeavor is. I still don't think any sizeable number of folks are staying away out of solidarity with Robotech backers but at least they seem to be looking out for their own well being.

As painful as it is, I think this will eventually fund, though just barely - unless they really stick their foot in their mouth (and they do seem to be heading that way at every turn).

I don't trust the "extra mini's" comment - I very much doubt they had plans to increase the mini count originally for fear of what happened to RRT, but appear to be rushing to the error because of the funding slowdown. I think that if they could get it to about 25-30 minis (say, 5-6 heroes - you're not likely to run more than that in delving game at once - and 20 bad guys) that'd be the design sweet spot.

 Stormonu wrote:
As painful as it is, I think this will eventually fund, though just barely - unless they really stick their foot in their mouth (and they do seem to be heading that way at every turn).

I, for one, hope that it funds $1 over the goal, and not a penny more.

What would happen if it funds, and say 10k worth of people just withdraw their pledges and don't pay for them? Does KS still collect the money? Is Carmen even legally obliged to go through with the KS if after collecting payments, only 90k of 100k has been collected?

Sining wrote:
What would happen if it funds, and say 10k worth of people just withdraw their pledges and don't pay for them? Does KS still collect the money? Is Carmen even legally obliged to go through with the KS if after collecting payments, only 90k of 100k has been collected?

If the KS *funds* KS attempts to collect the pledges. KS only gives the creator what KS collected. Great.

3. Problem: The cash didn’t come through

This is a hopefully rare but troubling problem. Stacy Davidson was seeking $56,000 for a video game project, and he hit his goal. But when Kickstarter ran the investors' credit cards, a few of the pledges turned out to be bogus, including one whopping $10,000 one. Kickstarter funds projects based on pledges, not actual cash collected, so that left Davidson with a significant shortfall to cover. But since completed Kickstarter campaigns can’t be reopened or added to, Davidson ended up asking for private donations to help fill in the gap.

Lesson learned: Don’t rest on your laurels just because you’ve hit your goal. Keep promoting your project until the time is up, no matter how far over goal you are.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2013400/6-kickstarter-nightmares-and-how-to-prevent-them.html

As for obligations, they can only be "legally obtained" if you pay a lawyer enough money. Which is never the case, unless the lawyer will work for free. I only know of two cases where this happened, and, in both, the lawyer worked free because he was a backer. Search on the Hansfree KS project. The Asylum Bicycle card case, although the Attorney General received all the credit, if you can find the interview, it turns out the artist and a lawyer who backed the project did the work and handed it over to the AG. I remember someone on the Robotech KS who said he was going to do some sort of legal action, but he seems to have disappeared? If anyone can provide more information or an update, I'd appreciate it.

That would be Asterios.

What about Supreme Leader, is he a fan?

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
How does he put his clothes on? Or use any of the items on his belt?

I have never asked that question....

He get's help from his best buddy the old Batman foe Nunchaku.

Though I dtoooed playing Rifts when I realized aircraft flew faster than the missiles and bullet speeds of their guns they carried.

IIRC my physics correcly the speed of the vehicle they're launched from adds to their velocity. So can't give you points for that.

And honestly if THAT'S what bothered you about physics in Rifts... you're a more understanding man than I am.

Merijeek wrote:
So, when do people think questions will be "answered" ("answered" in this case meaning some sort of response to silence the filthy peasants) and when will the questions be answered (answered in this case meaning cherry picked to answer only questions that they feel like answering)?

It's hard to say. If I were them I'd really start counting the $ in regards to the people who are saying they are going to leave, if details aren't forthcoming. What is the biggest (and by that, I mean most annoying, because they don't want to divulge it) question over there? What is the biggest beef?

1) Who is manufacturing the miniatures?
2) The progress and outline of the campaign itself.

With those two things in mind as I look over the comments of the last 12-ish hours, by an estimate there should be at least $1500-$2K of funds which are by backers which have raised concerns and said either: not revealing the miniatures manufacture is tantamount to them likely withdrawing their pledge and/or so far as to the campaign... If it does not improve they will likely withdraw the pledge.

The bottom line is. RH won't reveal the miniature manufacture because they don't have it or they are planning to handle it direct with Palladium Books.... Panda was contacted by Wayne, can't remember where I saw that in regards to wave 2 of RRT ( if KS wasn't blowing smoke), but since that didn't get through seems unlikely they will be approached for RBG. If Kevin was not just blowing smoke (which is certainly possible). I think pledges need to start dropping in high number before they actually reveal anything...

 Swabby wrote:
That would be Asterios.

Indeed it would be!

In hindsight, we should have known that wasn't going to end as he predicted as he can't even capitalize the first word in a sentence, and his 'price for silence' was rather low.

I mean they'd have been stupid to have not just paid him off and ended that before it started.

As for this campaign?

It doesn't look good, and unless it overfunds by a ton, I can't see it being successfully delivered.

And then, if it does overfund by a ton, that would be another whole set of issues which would probably sink it too.

Ugh.