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A Town Called Malus wrote: Because armed militias roaming around with surplus war equipment worked out so well for the Weimar Republic.
DINLT, your ideas become even more ridiculous with each post.
Yeah let's make sure it becomes bloodpath with innocent bystanders getting caught in it. Yey. That is good idea!
Besides it's not like London is even some hellhole super dangerous. There's 1st world cities that have it much worse yet where's the calls for vigilantes to hunt down anybody they feel are criminals(because that's what vigilantes always end up doing and that's what armed civilian patrols always end up being. Vigilantes)
I said in my post that crime is clearly a problem, but the fact that in your head there is no middle ground between the current strategy being used and just giving untrained people a load of guns to roam the streets taking out who they see fit is frankly scary.
What does him being a world famous millionaire comedian have to do with what appears to be a smash and grab, it could just have easily been a normal person.
amazing what they say when they don't think we'll get to see it.
Waste of human skin.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
We've went soft on crime and the end result is this: teenagers dead on the streets with a knife between the shoulder blades. Acid attacks. Moped gangs. Rural crime is up. Homeowners grappling with burglars.
I could go on all day...
Even when we do catch the fethers, our court and prison service is collpasing around our ears.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Because armed militias roaming around with surplus war equipment worked out so well for the Weimar Republic.
DINLT, your ideas become even more ridiculous with each post.
Yeah let's make sure it becomes bloodpath with innocent bystanders getting caught in it. Yey. That is good idea!
Besides it's not like London is even some hellhole super dangerous. There's 1st world cities that have it much worse yet where's the calls for vigilantes to hunt down anybody they feel are criminals(because that's what vigilantes always end up doing and that's what armed civilian patrols always end up being. Vigilantes)
Innocent bystanders are getting caught up in it anyway.
Fair enough, we may not be approaching a Mad Max situation, but this constant drip drip of crime will end up taking us down that road.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 10:05:04
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: We've went soft on crime and the end result is this: teenagers dead on the streets with a knife between the shoulder blades. Acid attacks. Moped gangs. Rural crime is up. Homeowners grappling with burglars.
I could go on all day...
Even when we do catch the fethers, our court and prison service is collpasing around our ears.
And your solution to this was to vote for something which would damage the economy, resulting in less money to tackle these problems. Excellent idea!
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: I said in my post that crime is clearly a problem, but the fact that in your head there is no middle ground between the current strategy being used and just giving untrained people a load of guns to roam the streets taking out who they see fit is frankly scary.
What does him being a world famous millionaire comedian have to do with what appears to be a smash and grab, it could just have easily been a normal person.
They wouldn't be untrained, because they'd be ex-police, army vets or TA or something. People used to bullets whizzing past their ears. People who've had training in the past. People who can handle themselves in tense situations.
We could draw on a pool of say, up too 10,000 people ready answer their nation's call in its hour of need.
You may laugh now, but I hope nobody on dakka ever has to hear the smashing of glass at 3am as their laying in their beds...
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: We've went soft on crime and the end result is this: teenagers dead on the streets with a knife between the shoulder blades. Acid attacks. Moped gangs. Rural crime is up. Homeowners grappling with burglars.
I could go on all day...
Even when we do catch the fethers, our court and prison service is collpasing around our ears.
And your solution to this was to vote for something which would damage the economy, resulting in less money to tackle these problems. Excellent idea!
We had that even when we were in the EU.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 10:09:15
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: I said in my post that crime is clearly a problem, but the fact that in your head there is no middle ground between the current strategy being used and just giving untrained people a load of guns to roam the streets taking out who they see fit is frankly scary.
What does him being a world famous millionaire comedian have to do with what appears to be a smash and grab, it could just have easily been a normal person.
They wouldn't be untrained, because they'd be ex-police, army vets or TA or something. People used to bullets whizzing past their ears. People who've had training in the past. People who can handle themselves in tense situations.
We could draw on a pool of say, up too 10,000 people ready answer their nation's call in its hour of need.
You may laugh now, but I hope nobody on dakka ever has to hear the smashing of glass at 3am as their laying in their beds...
The vast majority of our police are not trained to use firearms.
And the vast majority of our police do not want firearms. What are you going to do, forcibly conscript people into your extra-judicial death squads?
And using the military for police is not a good idea. They are not trained in the same way. Putting people into these kinds if situations is how you end up with stuff like Bloody Sunday.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 10:12:37
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
A visible presence to deter would be criminals would be the primary purpose.
I'm not calling for Weimar Germany street battles
But one of the reasons why these brazen attacks are increasing is because the crooks know they won't get their collars felt by the law.
As I've said before, I can draw on 2 faithful hounds, a stout wooden club by the bed, and an assortment of kitchen knives to defend my property from a 3am visit.
I would advise my fellow dakka member to take similar measures to protect their loved ones and property.
You may thank me for it one day.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: I said in my post that crime is clearly a problem, but the fact that in your head there is no middle ground between the current strategy being used and just giving untrained people a load of guns to roam the streets taking out who they see fit is frankly scary.
What does him being a world famous millionaire comedian have to do with what appears to be a smash and grab, it could just have easily been a normal person.
They wouldn't be untrained, because they'd be ex-police, army vets or TA or something. People used to bullets whizzing past their ears. People who've had training in the past. People who can handle themselves in tense situations.
We could draw on a pool of say, up too 10,000 people ready answer their nation's call in its hour of need.
You may laugh now, but I hope nobody on dakka ever has to hear the smashing of glass at 3am as their laying in their beds...
Being in the army doesn't qualify someone to be a part of the police force that became perfectly clear in Ireland, mainly because the armies first response is to kill. What are your actual plans for these roaming armed gangs? To just shoot on site anyone they feel doesn't look right or they don't agree with something they've said? Going by the term ex these will mos probably be armed middle age white men patrolling neighbourhoods with large black populations, that's not going to play out well ands will probably result in more people losing there lives.
Remember when Mark Duggan was shot?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 10:24:29
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: I said in my post that crime is clearly a problem, but the fact that in your head there is no middle ground between the current strategy being used and just giving untrained people a load of guns to roam the streets taking out who they see fit is frankly scary.
What does him being a world famous millionaire comedian have to do with what appears to be a smash and grab, it could just have easily been a normal person.
Maybe he wants UK to borrow page from Indonesia and Philippine. That has obviously worked so well there. No innocent casualties at all.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: I said in my post that crime is clearly a problem, but the fact that in your head there is no middle ground between the current strategy being used and just giving untrained people a load of guns to roam the streets taking out who they see fit is frankly scary.
What does him being a world famous millionaire comedian have to do with what appears to be a smash and grab, it could just have easily been a normal person.
They wouldn't be untrained, because they'd be ex-police, army vets or TA or something. People used to bullets whizzing past their ears. People who've had training in the past. People who can handle themselves in tense situations.
We could draw on a pool of say, up too 10,000 people ready answer their nation's call in its hour of need.
You may laugh now, but I hope nobody on dakka ever has to hear the smashing of glass at 3am as their laying in their beds...
Being in the army doesn't qualify someone to be a part of the police force that became perfectly clear in Ireland, mainly because the armies first response is to kill. What are your actual plans for these roaming armed gangs? To just shoot on site anyone they feel doesn't look right or they don't agree with something they've said? Going by the term ex these will mos probably be armed middle age white men patrolling neighbourhoods with large black populations, that's not going to play out well ands will probably result in more people losing there lives.
Remember when Mark Duggan was shot?
Why are you asking for details from DINLT? He only deals with the Big PictureTM.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/05 10:34:22
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
gianlucafiorentini123 wrote: What are your actual plans for these roaming armed gangs? To just shoot on site anyone they feel doesn't look right or they don't agree with something they've said?
Since that's what always happens with these 3rd party death squads either that or he's rather ignorant of history and thinks he has first time in human history thought of this great idea. "Nothing can go wrong! Honest!"
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A visible presence to deter would be criminals would be the primary purpose.
I'm not calling for Weimar Germany street battles
It doesn't matter what you're calling for. It matters what you will end up with. Basically you're making the exact same mistake you did with brexit, pushing an idea based on the best outcome when reality makes such an outcome impossible.
We don't like in a world where groups of people roaming around with rifles and machine guns will not result in lots of people getting shot.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Why are you asking for details from DINLT? He only deals with the Big PictureTM.
I was going to say, it's a good job he is only a big picture person... as if this is what happens when he attempts details it's best that he doesn't bother.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Actually the UK has been tough on crime. We've got record numbers of people in prison because recent governments (New Labour and Conservative) pushed up the length of sentences for many offences.
We're not tough on the causes of crime (poverty, alienation, poor life prospects) and we're not good at rehabilitation.
All that having been said, despite an uptick in the past couple of years, crime is still at a relatively low level compared to longer term records.
It's not a situation for complacency. but equally it's not a situation that demands a panic response.
It was there in black and white.
I posted a link to them on the BBC, and I was shot down in flames.
Because you do this thing repeatedly of reading the headlines (and usually just the sensationalist ones), going no further and ignoring the detail or the actual analysis, and letting you're hysteria grab you by your pants and whisk you off to la-la land.
People accuse me of ignoring Brexit and EU evidence, but there are people on dakka who have a blind spot when law and order is breaking down.
No, people just read beyond the sensationalist headlines and get to grips with the details and actual analysis, instead of jumping on the hysteria train.
If we have to arm people with old Webley revolvers and Lewis guns, to re-claim the streets, then so be it, because the current approach is clearly failing
And this new approach is workable? Lol, I guess the D in DINLT should stand for Duerte. Black and Tans and B Specials much? No, they've nevertheless done anything wrong.
Or will you do your usual thing of let your hysteria whip you into a frenzy, come up with some hair brained scheme that is nothing short of disastrous and completely out of sync with reality, and then when the consequences of your ideas prove to be as disastrous as initially suspected, you shrug your shoulders, wash your hands of them and try to deny any and all responsibility?
If a world famous and millionaire comedian is getting fleeced in broad daylight, then what chance does the average man in the street have?
None!
Probably more, to be fair. Macintyre is a juicer target, with obvious wealth who has probsbly been under surveillance by a gang. Precisely for this opportunity.
I'm not arguing for battleships to be moored in The Thames, but feth me, if something is not done by official channels, then don't be surprised to see people take the law into their own hands with vigilante groups.
Battleships - maybe not. But you are talking about Black and Tans and B Specials. Or brownshirts. Which is far more insidious
. What happens when they shoot some kid with his hood up? Armed gangs on the street make things less safe for everyone, not more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 11:16:18
greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy
"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are"
Why are you asking for details from DINLT? He only deals with the Big PictureTM.
I was going to say, it's a good job he is only a big picture person... as if this is what happens when he attempts details it's best that he doesn't bother.
The alternative plan as advocated by you and A Town Called Malus, is to roll up the white flag to the criminals.
Not on my watch. I'll be damned if I see the nation I love turn into a takeaway for any member of the criminal fraternity. .
Why are you asking for details from DINLT? He only deals with the Big PictureTM.
Correction.
the Big PictureTM Now with added hysteria.
And no, I don't want a new generation of Black and Tans, or B Specials on the streets, thank you very much.
I'm not calling for a return to 1970s Northern Ireland. That was a unique set of circumstances that are obviously not replicated on the streets of London.
I'm just looking for some law and order. Is that too much to ask for? What do I pay my taxes for?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 11:07:50
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Why are you asking for details from DINLT? He only deals with the Big PictureTM.
I was going to say, it's a good job he is only a big picture person... as if this is what happens when he attempts details it's best that he doesn't bother.
The alternative plan as advocated by you and A Town Called Malus, is to roll up the white flag to the criminals.
Not on my watch. I'll be damned if I see the nation I love turn into a takeaway for any member of the criminal fraternity. .
Now you've gone from being just incompetent to being incompetent and a liar. What sort of insane mental gymnastics does it take to come to the conclusion that the only thing that works to fight crime is armed gangs of your own?!
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
I'm wondering if after all this time he'll use the "I was only pretending to be" line.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
The alternative plan as advocated by you and A Town Called Malus, is to roll up the white flag to the criminals.
Not on my watch. I'll be damned if I see the nation I love turn into a takeaway for any member of the criminal fraternity. .
I'm astoundingly grateful that we're not "on your watch" then.
Here's a take on vigilante policing:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 11:22:56
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Why are you asking for details from DINLT? He only deals with the Big PictureTM.
I was going to say, it's a good job he is only a big picture person... as if this is what happens when he attempts details it's best that he doesn't bother.
The alternative plan as advocated by you and A Town Called Malus, is to roll up the white flag to the criminals.
Not on my watch. I'll be damned if I see the nation I love turn into a takeaway for any member of the criminal fraternity. .
Ah yes armed gangsters shooting anybody they don't like led by you is obviously only way to deal with criminals. Lol. Nevermind London is still safer than many 1st world big cities.
This is the first time I've mentioned them in any post. It's other people banging on about B Specials and Black and Tans, not me.
This is Britain in 2018, not 1920s Ireland.
And in respnse to deadnight, if a government's first duty is not protection of the nation, then I don't know what the hell is.
The authority of any state, any nation on God's Earth is dependent on armed men and women maintaining that authority.
See how long a country lasts for when it has no police or military.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I'm not calling for a return to 1970s Northern Ireland. That was a unique set of circumstances that are obviously not replicated on the streets of London.
There must still be tons of old war surplus Lee Enfields and Bren guns laying around. Ex-police and army vets of good standing and character could fill the void and at least they'd have some degree of training.
Who do you think they hired to 'pacify the streets of ireland'? It wasnt scumbags or criminals. They were the 'war heroes' of their day.
I'm just looking for some law and order. Is that too much to ask for? What do I pay my taxes for?
No, you are looking for anarchy in the U.K.
You pay your taxes for many things, as do I. Armed death squads on the streets is not something I, or any other sensibly minded person wants, just to placate your hysteria and insecurity
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Black and Tans? This is the first time I've mentioned them in any post. It's other people banging on about B Specials and Black and Tans, not me.
This is Britain in 2018, not 1920s Ireland.
Armed paramilitaries on the streets? Yeah, you just called them by a different name.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Black and Tans? And in respnse to deadnight, if a government's first duty is not protection of the nation, then I don't know what the hell is.
I said it was debateable. I'd argue the governments first duty is to look after its people, with things like healthcare being amongst those things, not just protection in the 'armed paramilitaries on the streets' sense. But go ahead and misquote me Duerte.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Black and Tans? See how long a country lasts for when it has no police or military.
Which is a far cry from arming paramilitaries and having them on our streets. Tell me, how long before they shoot thr wrong person, or tell the actual police 'yeah, we're in charge now'. But of course, you'll have washed your hands of it by then, because the consequences of your ideas are never your fault. eh Duerte?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 11:31:05
greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy
"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are"
Why are you asking for details from DINLT? He only deals with the Big PictureTM.
I was going to say, it's a good job he is only a big picture person... as if this is what happens when he attempts details it's best that he doesn't bother.
The alternative plan as advocated by you and A Town Called Malus, is to roll up the white flag to the criminals.
Not on my watch. I'll be damned if I see the nation I love turn into a takeaway for any member of the criminal fraternity. .
Ah yes armed gangsters shooting anybody they don't like led by you is obviously only way to deal with criminals. Lol. Nevermind London is still safer than many 1st world big cities.
Have you ever been to London?
It's all very well for you to be sitting in the middle of nowhere in Finland and commenting on the crime that blights Britain. No offence intended.
And we already have armed gangsters shooting people.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
MrDwhitey wrote: I'm wondering if after all this time he'll use the "I was only pretending to be" line.
Well, everybody think crime is something that only affects other people...and then you get a knife waved before your eyes, or a cosh to the back of the head, or somebody creeping about your house at 3am...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
It always embarrassed Samuel Vimes when civilians tried to speak to him in what they thought was “policeman.” If it came to that, he hated thinking of them as civilians. What was a policeman, if not a civilian with a uniform and a badge? But they tended to use the term these days as a way of describing people who were not policemen. It was a dangerous habit: once policemen stopped being civilians the only other thing they could be was soldiers.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Well, don't come running to me or start bleating about it on dakka if crooks fleece you of your hard earned money...
My response will be this:
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Have you? How do you avoid the gangs that are besieging your farm?
Once again you show little understanding of the people or places of the rest of the UK...
I'm fairly regularly in London (less so in the last few weeks whilst they sort the trains out, being stranded is a very real and costly possibility) and have never felt unsafe walking the streets.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Can we just Godwin this suggestion and move on to the next ridiculous thing, I really can't be bothered going through the rigmarole of "London is a hive of scum and villainy" thing for what must be the 3rd or 4th time.
