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Someone in France just bothered to read the European Commission's Brexit plans, and noticed that Irish exports to the Continent would be going to Belgium and the Netherlands rather than France.
Spoiler:
An EU plan to exclude French ports from new shipping routes linking Ireland with the Continent after Brexit is “scandalous and unacceptable”, the leader of the northern French region said yesterday.
Xavier Bertrand, the president of the Hauts de France region that includes the ports of Calais, Boulogne and Dunkirk, urged the European Commission to review its decision to ship goods via Belgium and the Netherlands instead of France.
The proposal adopted by the European Commission last week is intended to prevent Irish exports to the Continent from being delayed by UK customs checks if Britain can no longer be part of EU routes after Brexit.
Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, has rejected Theresa May’s proposals on customs. He has repeatedly warned that frictionless trade is impossible outside the EU’s single market and customs union, even if there is a UK-EU free trade agreement.
But French ports stand to lose billions of pounds in EU grants if Dublin and Cork are linked with mainland Europe via the Belgian ports of Zeebrugge and Antwerp and the Dutch port of Rotterdam.
The EU fears delays from striking French port workers if trade continues to run through Calais after Brexit The EU fears delays from striking French port workers if trade continues to run through Calais after Brexit CREDIT: AFP The European Commission is believed to be concerned about severe congestion in northern France if customs checks are introduced to cross the Channel, and from possible industrial action by French port workers.
“This is a scandalous and unacceptable decision,” Mr Bertrand told the Daily Telegraph.“The risk of traffic jams if new customs checks are introduced after Brexit is the same for France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Why discriminate against our ports? The European Commission should review this and the French government should react.”
Transport companies that now use Britain as a staging post to travel to Europe have been preparing for the new routes for months.
But the French government is facing increasing domestic pressure to block the EU’s proposed new routes. The plan cuts out major French ports such as Roscoff and Cherbourg that are closer to Ireland than Belgian or Dutch ports. French Channel ports would no longer qualify for extra funding from Brussels to upgrade their facilities.
Mrs May has ruled out a European Commission proposal to keep Northern Ireland in the single market and customs union, which would create a new border in the Irish Sea, if Britain’s preferred options of a free trade agreement or innovative technical border solutions fail.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/08 09:51:14
I can kind of see why - presumably the Dutch/Belgian ports can handle the traffic better, and are less likely to strike if things go badly.
They should still be trying to route a lot of stuff through the French ports due to proximity alone though, even if they need to funnel stuff though an EU port (Roscoff being nearer) and a non EU port (Cherbourg). That should minimize any impact of Brexit on Irish shipping, and potentially means they can focus their funding on upgrading just Roscoff.
This is to do with Bozo's recent illegal Daily Telegraph article in which he pretended to be against banning the burqua while mocking Muslim women as bank robbers and postboxes.
He's gone Trump, IMO, and thinks it will win him the leadership of the Conservative Party.
I've already started on making my allotment to grow vegetables for when Brexit worsens. Granted I was already planning on the allotment prior to all this nonsense but I feel that I will be a God when I'm the only person with fresh vegetables and everyone else is using cats milk in their tea and using dogfood instead of pate on their toast.
Meanwhile, I'm planning on a trip to the continent in my car, maybe I should stock up on medicine, tinned goods and clothing before I return to the Fething Thunderdome that is the Dis-UK.
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Herzlos wrote: I can kind of see why - presumably the Dutch/Belgian ports can handle the traffic better, and are less likely to strike if things go badly.
They should still be trying to route a lot of stuff through the French ports due to proximity alone though, even if they need to funnel stuff though an EU port (Roscoff being nearer) and a non EU port (Cherbourg). That should minimize any impact of Brexit on Irish shipping, and potentially means they can focus their funding on upgrading just Roscoff.
It makes sense if routes to Ireland no longer go through the UK. It probably saves money in shifting cargo around if you can just go to and from the major global European port and its subsidiaries instead of landing at smaller ports to then transfer it onto a truck and then just drive it back to another port. At least when they still went through the UK as a logistical depot they probably made more localized stops, which made closer ports more useful. From my line of work in import I can see how Brexit makes skipping French port work.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/08 14:14:48
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Wulfmar wrote: I've already started on making my allotment to grow vegetables for when Brexit worsens. Granted I was already planning on the allotment prior to all this nonsense but I feel that I will be a God when I'm the only person with fresh vegetables and everyone else is using cats milk in their tea and using dogfood instead of pate on their toast.
Meanwhile, I'm planning on a trip to the continent in my car, maybe I should stock up on medicine, tinned goods and clothing before I return to the Fething Thunderdome that is the Dis-UK.
Don't forget the barbed wire and electric fence to protect the food!
I also see the £ is barrelling downwards again because of fears over a no deal scenario.
This is to do with Bozo's recent illegal Daily Telegraph article in which he pretended to be against banning the burqua while mocking Muslim women as bank robbers and postboxes.
He's gone Trump, IMO, and thinks it will win him the leadership of the Conservative Party.
I'm not sure what is more worrying - that we have a politician that is happy to say vile things to get into power, or that he thinks, and that there might be, enough people that support such vile statements and want someone like that in power?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/08 15:19:42
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Herzlos wrote: I can kind of see why - presumably the Dutch/Belgian ports can handle the traffic better, and are less likely to strike if things go badly.
They should still be trying to route a lot of stuff through the French ports due to proximity alone though, even if they need to funnel stuff though an EU port (Roscoff being nearer) and a non EU port (Cherbourg). That should minimize any impact of Brexit on Irish shipping, and potentially means they can focus their funding on upgrading just Roscoff.
It makes sense if routes to Ireland no longer go through the UK. It probably saves money in shifting cargo around if you can just go to and from the major global European port and its subsidiaries instead of landing at smaller ports to then transfer it onto a truck and then just drive it back to another port. At least when they still went through the UK as a logistical depot they probably made more localized stops, which made closer ports more useful. From my line of work in import I can see how Brexit makes skipping French port work.
I think the assumption is that going via post-Brexit Britain will add a large/uncertain delay and it's therefor better for any goods destined for Eire/Mainland EU to go directly instead of via a 3rd party with it's own rules. I can totally understand that - British docks grinding to a halt with 20+ mile tailbacks to get through customs is gak enough for the stuff going to Britain and is entirely self inflicted. But you'd want to avoid putting anything through that clustergak (and potentially 2 additional customs checks) if you can avoid it.
I'm not familiar enough with import/export to understand the impacts on the French ports.
Along with every other scientific professional body.
And most non-scientific professional bodies. But Brexit has long surpassed any interest in experts. I don't think we're even at damage control anymore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/08 15:46:31
Herzlos wrote: I can kind of see why - presumably the Dutch/Belgian ports can handle the traffic better, and are less likely to strike if things go badly.
They should still be trying to route a lot of stuff through the French ports due to proximity alone though, even if they need to funnel stuff though an EU port (Roscoff being nearer) and a non EU port (Cherbourg). That should minimize any impact of Brexit on Irish shipping, and potentially means they can focus their funding on upgrading just Roscoff.
It makes sense if routes to Ireland no longer go through the UK. It probably saves money in shifting cargo around if you can just go to and from the major global European port and its subsidiaries instead of landing at smaller ports to then transfer it onto a truck and then just drive it back to another port. At least when they still went through the UK as a logistical depot they probably made more localized stops, which made closer ports more useful. From my line of work in import I can see how Brexit makes skipping French port work.
I think the assumption is that going via post-Brexit Britain will add a large/uncertain delay and it's therefor better for any goods destined for Eire/Mainland EU to go directly instead of via a 3rd party with it's own rules. I can totally understand that - British docks grinding to a halt with 20+ mile tailbacks to get through customs is gak enough for the stuff going to Britain and is entirely self inflicted. But you'd want to avoid putting anything through that clustergak (and potentially 2 additional customs checks) if you can avoid it.
I'm not familiar enough with import/export to understand the impacts on the French ports.
That combined with a lower amount of paperwork is the likely explanation. From my own sector, which is pretty general for the most part, we work on a spiderweb system. Rotterdam is our main storage hub. The bigger countries like Germany, France and the UK serve as regional hubs supplied by Rotterdam, but its cheaper and in cases faster now to ship through smaller port like Calais (for example) instead of Rotterdam for our cargo that goes to the UK (which distributes to Ireland). We also handle all the import paperwork for the EU so the regional hubs don't have to deal with any of that. But if the UK exits the EU then we would have to ship it out>in>out>in to get it to Ireland. As it now costs more money and time we're scaling down the UK hub and going directly through Rotterdam to Ireland, which makes it cheaper than French ports if we ship directly. Ireland won't expand storage capacity, but our estimate is that it would now be faster to top up the small Irish stock from the Netherlands instead of the UK.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/08 17:17:47
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Disciple of Fate wrote: That combined with a lower amount of paperwork is the likely explanation. From my own sector, which is pretty general for the most part, we work on a spiderweb system. Rotterdam is our main storage hub. The bigger countries like Germany, France and the UK serve as regional hubs supplied by Rotterdam, but its cheaper and in cases faster now to ship through smaller port like Calais (for example) instead of Rotterdam for our cargo that goes to the UK (which distributes to Ireland). We also handle all the import paperwork for the EU so the regional hubs don't have to deal with any of that. But if the UK exits the EU then we would have to ship it out>in>out>in to get it to Ireland. As it now costs more money and time we're scaling down the UK hub and going directly through Rotterdam to Ireland, which makes it cheaper than French ports if we ship directly. Ireland won't expand storage capacity, but our estimate is that it would now be faster to top up the small Irish stock from the Netherlands instead of the UK.
Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense and I think the same will apply to anyone else who's supplying Eire via the UK now (which is the majority of EU->Eire trade as I understand it).
Which is both good for the UK (because there's less traffic to deal with) and bad (that traffic must have meant revenue and jobs somewhere, or at least economies of scale going to Rotterdam or Eire).
The Conservative government has ruled out 1-3, but Theresa May change her mind if she reckons it’ll keep her in the job,
May is just a bullet shield, always has been always will.
How many times do you think they could have removed her? after the election? after so many fails and scandals even recently, over chequers, they had Nearly enough to
remove her.
She changes her "mind" when they tell her to say something else then change her mind to what she should say.
Seriously what is her opinion on, well anything, except grammar schools?
She is a back bencher who somehow made it to home secretary, did such a terrible job that she was afraid of losing the position, so "supported" remain as cameron threatened them.
Spent the referendum hiding and complaining about the ECJ. Then found herself as a perfect patsy, someone who can "pretend" to bring the country together,
and when it all goes wrong?
SHE'S A REMOANER PLANT. SHE RUINED IT. WE COULD HAVE DONE IT BETTER!!
This is to do with Bozo's recent illegal Daily Telegraph article in which he pretended to be against banning the burqua while mocking Muslim women as bank robbers and postboxes.
He's gone Trump, IMO, and thinks it will win him the leadership of the Conservative Party.
johnson is a fool and always seems to go off half cocked. Look at his resignation, instead of meeting with the EU and Balkans(? He stood someone up but can't remember who)
he had a photo op. of him signing his resignation, making him look like a fool who was jumping on the bandwagon.
Quite frankly from what i have heard/ read since, and with my belief that the tories want a no-deal brexit, i think that sort of language WILL win someone the vote
Just not that tool.
Wulfmar wrote:I've already started on making my allotment to grow vegetables for when Brexit worsens. Granted I was already planning on the allotment prior to all this nonsense but I feel that I will be a God when I'm the only person with fresh vegetables and everyone else is using cats milk in their tea and using dogfood instead of pate on their toast.
Meanwhile, I'm planning on a trip to the continent in my car, maybe I should stock up on medicine, tinned goods and clothing before I return to the Fething Thunderdome that is the Dis-UK.
Good on you. Though i doubt a no-deal situation will last long, it's always good having a hobby and i have read gardening is really good at getting rid of stress.
BUT...BUT... WHAT ABOUT THE MONEY THAT WILL FLOW INTO THERE POCKETS WHEN THEY START STUDYING PROPER SCIENCES?
LIKE:- SOVERINGNTY
GREAT BRITAIN
NIGEL FARAGE
She'd probably get this wherever she went. The problem is that she tends not to advertise too many of these types of events (this one being more high profile). I wonder if she would actually get the message if she was booed everywhere or whether she is deaf, figuratively speaking, to the issues she is causing.
Still she is getting desperate now. Begging letters going out to all members trying to persuade them it is a good deal. Perhaps it should really read "Why you should keep me as a PM even though I'm incompetent"
So between Mogg and Boris they have almost 45% of the votes...if there was a no confidence vote on May....shudder...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/09 07:58:05
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Surely it is now clear that Borish Jonson would be a disastrous prime minister.
Let's hope his constituents will call for a recall vote on him. His majoiry in Uxbridge is far from unassailable in a by-election.
Alternatively, if May bites the bullet and withdraws the Conservative ship from Boris, he can't function as a Conservative MP and theferore would not be eligible to stand for election as leader of the party.
Alternatively, if May bites the bullet and withdraws the Conservative ship from Boris, he can't function as a Conservative MP and theferore would not be eligible to stand for election as leader of the party.
Despite all his idiocies in the Foreign Office she didn't throw him out of the cabinet. Her response was slow and forced on his latest bigotry. She won't throw him out because she knows he has too much grass roots support which would then abandon her.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
And... unbelievably my textile Business this morning has been asked to take part in the Gov consultation on rules of origin so they can draw conclusions and try negotiate best deal with EU. NOW!! 40 years of rules now being collated, drawn up and apparently negotiated by March
... even better news, some are saying this in fact needs to be done by October, so it can be ratified in March.
meanwhile as reality continues :
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 08:47:40
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
I could perhaps suggest some items for the no deal agenda she is planning.
Theresa May's resignation (8th April 2019 - one day after all 'luxury' food supplies run out and country is limited to spam and turnips for every meal)
Hobbies to take up afterwards (being limited to something that she can f**k up without harming anything such as watercolour paintings of whitewashed walls; knitting would be by far too risky with those pointy needles)
Determining possible countries where she can live in retirement (these being those countries with the lowest number of British citizens to avoid very angry voters - An uninhabited island off Antarctica perhaps?)
The title of the inevitable biography "1000 days to screw over a country (13th July 2016 - 8th April 2019)"
Being granted citizenship from Russia for being a useful idiot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 09:22:57
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
She'd probably get this wherever she went. The problem is that she tends not to adv
Still she is getting desperate now. Begging letters going out to all members trying to persuade them it is a good deal. Perhaps it should really read "Why you should keep me as a PM even though I'm incompetent"
Please read the whole article to get the full details.
It's still very close though. After all within the likely errors, and despite all the calamity that is Wrexit, 50% still think leaving is the best idea.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Indeed. The south-west (specifically Newton Abbot in Devon) has the main headquarters of UKIP.
It is very much a Leaver stronghold, so it reaching the point where it has dropped to effectively 50/50 could be a sign that public opinion is changing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 11:10:14
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Kilkrazy wrote: That's a specific region which was much more pro-Brexit two years ago.
It demonstrates a shift by Leave voters away from Brexit.
That one region is not the whole country, of course, but it's not unreasonable to extrapolate more widely.
It's a total of a 4% of a swing. 6% of those asked said they didn't know, 6% stated they wouldn't vote. Hence the errors are likely still a bit too large. I agree there is a general trend to support remaining (not exactly surprising given demographic changes). However I think I would advise caution stating that definitely things have changed in specific areas. For example the 6% who stated they don't know might all be supporting Leave but are too embarrassed by it all to admit it (the same goes for shy Tory voters etc).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/09 10:46:55
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
This is to do with Bozo's recent illegal Daily Telegraph article in which he pretended to be against banning the burqua while mocking Muslim women as bank robbers and postboxes.
He's gone Trump, IMO, and thinks it will win him the leadership of the Conservative Party.
Please stop the zombie plague from spreading to the UK. Save yourselves!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
And... unbelievably my textile Business this morning has been asked to take part in the Gov consultation on rules of origin so they can draw conclusions and try negotiate best deal with EU. NOW!! 40 years of rules now being collated, drawn up and apparently negotiated by March
... even better news, some are saying this in fact needs to be done by October, so it can be ratified in March.
meanwhile as reality continues :
Sounds about right.
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
But I thought Brexit was all about finally paying attention to the (portion of the) working class who are worried about immigration? Surely you're not suggesting that was just a cover for a toxic mix of ideology and disaster capitalist opportunism among the country's leadership and that in fact, they intend to go back to ignoring said portion of the working class like they do at all other times and on all other issues? I am shocked, shocked I tell you
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
The beauty of the Vote Leave campaign, and May's "Brexit means Brexit", is that neither meant anything specific so whoever disliked the EU for whatever reason could hold the belief their concerns were going to be addressed.
Of course we are now getting stuck in the mess and grit of practical reality, and things inevitably aren't going according to those magical thinking plans.
To be fair to the working class, the whole debate around immigration was done badly, and people weren't well informed about the benefits of immigration.
It was Blair's New Labour government in the late 1990s, which decided not to bother to implement the kind of registration system for EU citizens which Belgium for example uses. This led to the situation where the government was completely unable to say how many EU citizens were in the UK. The government however did know how many babies were born in 2003, and therefore how many primary school places would be needed in 2008, and failed to plan for the demand.
That said, the row over immigration numbers from 2010 onwards largely concerns the net immigration target. A couple of points about this...
1. If more UK citizens emigrate, it's easier to meet the target. In theory, 60 million Brits could emigrate in a year while 59 million French immigrated and we would blow the target into high orbit. That's an argument ad absurdam of course, to emphasise that the target is not rational.
2. For years, the number of non-EU citizens immigrating into the UK has exceeded the number of EU citizens. This gives no confidence that the target ever would be met even after being able to "throttle" the number of EU citizens entering.
Basically the target was pulled out of Cameron's arse to make a soundbite. It bears no relation to reality or practicality. Hence the situation now where the NHS is crying out of foreign doctors and nurses and can't get the visas for them. Hence the CBI pointing out that the UK needs foreign staff.
It was Blair's New Labour government in the late 1990s, which decided not to bother to implement the kind of registration system for EU citizens which Belgium for example uses. This led to the situation where the government was completely unable to say how many EU citizens were in the UK.
I don't really see the need for immigrants to be registered in this way. They should be able to run their lives with the same paperwork the rest of us do that were born as British. I actually support the stance of not registering people in this way - I don't think we should care where people come from and shouldn't have some form of 'labelling' system in this way. I think it is overly divisive and just costs significant amount of money to administer.
The government however did know how many babies were born in 2003, and therefore how many primary school places would be needed in 2008, and failed to plan for the demand.
That's not quite correct because school places isn't determined by national government (unlike say teachers pay, which is(was?)). Capital for new schools comes from a system called Section 106 Developer Contributions. When a new development appears then a local authority will make an assessment of the average number of children that 'house' will generate (for example a three bed they might calculate 1.5 children on average). The Council will then determine a cost per child for a new school (both primary and secondary) and at the time a Planning Application is submitted submit a claim (S106) for funding to support the development of a new school if it is needed and there isn't capacity at existing schools. There are disadvantages of the system though:-
You can pool funding however if the money isn't spent within a certain timeframe then the money gets handed back to the developers. If the development is small in an area where there might be some capacity then smaller developments might squeeze in without having to shell out or that not enough small developments come forward to make expanding a school viable - hence money is returned and that compounds the issue. It can also be seen as unfair on some developers because depending on when you get the planning permission can see you either need to pay nothing towards the school (there is capacity) or the later one might have to pay full whack (because the previous development gobbled up the capacity).
Two tier authorities (those with Districts and County Councils can also be partially hamstrung by the former not supporting the latter). In such areas a housing application goes to the District Council, the requirement for support towards schools (and libraries, waste sites, roads) is a County function. The County Council has no ability to challenge a District decision. Developers would play off a Districta against the Council, for example they might agree to part fund a swimming pool if they don't have to pay for school costs etc. Hence the local area might get some sports faciltiies that the District can brag about but the County loses the funding to support schooling in the area. Again the County has no ability to challenge (unless it really is acting illegally, but two Councils taking each other to court is almost unheard of). Admittedly this is almost an internal politics issue, but when you have two Councils with two political parties in control it can be quite common.
As such you can find that over time despite the development of new housing places for things like schooling become sparser. It is also a reason why some authorities have moved to "Sustainable Urban Extensions" because these are so large that it is much easier to stop the former issue.
New legislation was introduced called the Community Infrastructure Levy which was meant to replace S106 funding but never took off because it got even more mired in politics - Basically a per sq m of land resulted in a payment to the District Council but which was under no compulsion to distribute any of it to the County Council and could spend it on anything within the area. Districts started to spend the money on frivolous projects, too little money went to the County Councils to build roads, schools etc. Hence the developments couldn't be brought forward. Although nice in principle it collapsed because politicians are selfish at heart.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
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