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Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


Tat is strange. That's SNP, Labour Fortress lands.
Torries in Scotland are ment to be like mythical unicorns..


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 jhe90 wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


Tat is strange. That's SNP, Labour Fortress lands.
Torries in Scotland are ment to be like mythical unicorns..



I saw a BBC article once about a year back where they had a guy wandering around and popping questions about Tory recent actions/manifesto pledges to the locals in various places in Scotland. Funnily enough, practically all the Scots they met said they were things they'd vote for (without being told that they were Tory related). Then upon being asked their opinion of the Tories, the same people would hawk and scoff and say they'd never vote for them in a million years.

The result of the social experiment was that the Scottish aren't aren't so much proportionately more left-wing than the English as it is they have a hangup on the Tory brand left over from Thatcher. I've no idea if it would be consistently true on a larger more measured sample, but if it is the case, we could well see more people in Scotland turning Tory as Thatcher recedes into the distant past.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/05 12:24:40



 
   
Made in gb
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Steve steveson wrote:
 r_squared wrote:
So, at the polls before I leave for work, UKIP and Labour are getting a pounding.
Huge gains for the conservatives, and some gains and losses for the Lib Dems.

If that's reflective of the GE, TM has this sown up, and we can expect a Tory Govt for the next 5 years.

I'm ambivalent about that at, I'll mull over the consequences today.


The UKIP losses are likely to be reflected in the GE. Labour probably will be too.

I'm still hopeful that Lib Dems do worse than they will in the GE because their supporters are most likely to not vote in a local election. Perhaps I am letting my personal bias affect it.


Speaking for myself, I voted for an historically successful organised local independent group in my local election, but I probably will vote Lib-Dem at the general. There won't be any independents standing, as it's a local group.


That's the other place Lib Dems lose out in local elections. My feeling is that not only are they generally less likely to vote in local elections, those that might support them nationally are more likely to vote based on the issues presented rather than party allegiance.

I suspect Tory, Labour and UKIP changes will be indicative of the general election, but Lib Dems less so.

 insaniak wrote:
Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Ketara wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


Tat is strange. That's SNP, Labour Fortress lands.
Torries in Scotland are ment to be like mythical unicorns..



I saw a BBC article once about a year back where they had a guy wandering around and popping questions about Tory recent actions/manifesto pledges to the locals in various places in Scotland. Funnily enough, practically all the Scots they met said they were things they'd vote for (without being told that they were Tory related). Then upon being asked their opinion of the Tories, the same people would hawk and scoff and say they'd never vote for them in a million years.

The result of the social experiment was that the Scottish aren't aren't so much proportionately more left-wing than the English as it is they have a hangup on the Tory brand left over from Thatcher. I've no idea if it would be consistently true on a larger more measured sample, but if it is the case, we could well see more people in Scotland turning Tory as Thatcher recedes into the distant past.


Radio 4 had a piece about a similar "test" regarding Labour Party policies. It wasn't Scotland specifically, but it showed that a proportion of people choose policies based on their party preference rather than a choice of the policy without knowing where it comes from.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 jhe90 wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


Tat is strange. That's SNP, Labour Fortress lands.
Torries in Scotland are ment to be like mythical unicorns..



The Tories campaign up here has pretty much been "Vote Tory to block another indy referendum". Since that was 45/55, there's likely a lot of people who'd be swayed.

Sad to see that currently, we're lost 30 Labour seats to Tory, they really are losing pretty badly here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ketara wrote:

The result of the social experiment was that the Scottish aren't aren't so much proportionately more left-wing than the English as it is they have a hangup on the Tory brand left over from Thatcher. I've no idea if it would be consistently true on a larger more measured sample, but if it is the case, we could well see more people in Scotland turning Tory as Thatcher recedes into the distant past.


I'm sure there will be pubs up here where the mere mention of Thatcher will still have punters making the sign of the cross. They are absolutely toxic in working class / labour areas, because she's blamed for destroying entire industries and economies.

Give it a few generations and we'll maybe just look on them as only being a bit nasty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/05 12:50:16


 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Herzlos wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


Tat is strange. That's SNP, Labour Fortress lands.
Torries in Scotland are ment to be like mythical unicorns..



The Tories campaign up here has pretty much been "Vote Tory to block another indy referendum". Since that was 45/55, there's likely a lot of people who'd be swayed.

Sad to see that currently, we're lost 30 Labour seats to Tory, they really are losing pretty badly here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ketara wrote:

The result of the social experiment was that the Scottish aren't aren't so much proportionately more left-wing than the English as it is they have a hangup on the Tory brand left over from Thatcher. I've no idea if it would be consistently true on a larger more measured sample, but if it is the case, we could well see more people in Scotland turning Tory as Thatcher recedes into the distant past.


I'm sure there will be pubs up here where the mere mention of Thatcher will still have punters making the sign of the cross. They are absolutely toxic in working class / labour areas, because she's blamed for destroying entire industries and economies.

Give it a few generations and we'll maybe just look on them as only being a bit nasty.


Well if this is telling, and this is any basis on general, Labour need to look seriously at defending seats they do have, holding ground and count it a good day if they only make minimal losses to Tory party.

Labour need to seriously think if they want to not be taking at least one parli.ent to rebuild strengh.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
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Killer Klaivex







Well. We all know Corbyn will feth this up, probably shed a good sixty seats to the Tories, and then get booted.

So the question has to be; who will replace him? My bets are on Chuka Umunna making a play for it, or Sadiq Khan. Angela Eagle will likely make another run. Apparently a Labour poll group has been roadtesting some newbie called Rebecca Long-Bailey as a potential leader, but I don't reckon she's got the chops to fend off the others.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/05 14:46:44



 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 Ketara wrote:
Well. We all know Corbyn will feth this up, probably shed a good sixty seats to the Tories, and then get booted.

So the question has to be; who will replace him? My bets are on Chuka Umunna making a play for it, or Sadiq Khan. Angela Eagle will likely make another run. Apparently a Labour poll group has been roadtesting some newbie called Rebecca Long-Bailey as a potential leader, but I don't reckon she's got the chops to fend off the others.


If that's the best labour can offer as a replacement for Corbyn, they'd be better off sticking with him

On a serious note, those are awful choices for a future Labour leader. Lightweights and Blairites to a man and woman.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







My bets are on Eagle seizing it this time. Her or Sadiq are probably the best of the four, but I'm dubious whether Sadiq would want to abandon the rest of his term in his snug sinecure as Mayor to pilot a sinking ship. He'll probably wait until Corbyn's replacement gets trashed.

I suppose Burnham could give it another go, but I think he's totally focused on moving over to a comfy Mayor position in Manchester.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/05 15:00:02



 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 Ketara wrote:
My bets are on Eagle seizing it this time. Her or Sadiq are probably the best of the four, but I'm dubious whether Sadiq would want to abandon the rest of his term in his snug sinecure as Mayor to pilot a sinking ship. He'll probably wait until Corbyn's replacement gets trashed.

I suppose Burnham could give it another go, but I think he's totally focused on moving over to a comfy Mayor position in Manchester.


Burnham has just won the Manchester job, and knowing him, 3-4 years of hanging around TV studios lecturing others, whilst claiming a fat pay packet, without actually having to do anything in his new post, will suit him fine.

As for Eagles, I've seen her on TV a few times, and she makes Corbyn look like Bill Clinton.

Even post Corbyn, a bleak future awaits Labour.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


That is genuinely surprising. I was sure the Tories were extinct in Scotland. Could this translate into a similar result during the G.E? Perhaps. If you're Scottish and you sincerely believe in the Union then I can't think of anyone else who you could vote for. I'm also wondering how many Scots are getting fed up with the SNP.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Future War Cultist wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


That is genuinely surprising. I was sure the Tories were extinct in Scotland. Could this translate into a similar result during the G.E? Perhaps. If you're Scottish and you sincerely believe in the Union then I can't think of anyone else who you could vote for. I'm also wondering how many Scots are getting fed up with the SNP.


They've won 142 council seats across Scotland thus far counted, and the SNP have lost 17. Labour's lost a hundred, and another twenty have come off independents. That means the Tories have about 250 seats to the SNP's 350. There's still a few councils left to declare, but it's a crushing Tory advance. Ruth Davidson will be celebrating tonight. If the General Election shows even a vaguely similar result in terms of votes cast, it will destroy the SNP's claim for a fresh referendum.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/05 15:26:18



 
   
Made in gb
Drakhun





Scotland used to be very Tory in the decades past. It's only post Thatcher that they have moved from Tory to Labour and then SNP.

Swansea's council managed to get a larger Labour majority somehow. Those idiots keep doing stupid things to the city and people keep voting them in! Useless council.

But over half of Scotland's population is supposedly anti independence. They have to vote for someone who isn't the snp.

DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

Of course I am slightly bias on this, but I wouldn't read too much into Tory 'gains' in Scotland.

They always peak at the 25% mark, and on a low turnout with a STV voting system?

I'm not losing any sleep on this. The SNP are still on course for 45% of the national vote, which is a pretty damn good achievement for a party in power for 10 years.

Much higher than what the Tories are getting in England.

I'm still confident ahead of June 8th.


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Oxfordshire falls to No Overall Control! That is largely thanks to me, I believe.

UKIP is collapsing as predicted. I wonder if they have paid out their deposits for the general election...

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Future War Cultist wrote:
The Tories seem to be doing well so far. Can't say the same for the others.


Yeah, apparently substantial gains have been made in Scotland!


That is genuinely surprising. I was sure the Tories were extinct in Scotland. Could this translate into a similar result during the G.E? Perhaps. If you're Scottish and you sincerely believe in the Union then I can't think of anyone else who you could vote for. I'm also wondering how many Scots are getting fed up with the SNP.


They've won 142 council seats across Scotland thus far counted, and the SNP have lost 17. Labour's lost a hundred, and another twenty have come off independents. That means the Tories have about 250 seats to the SNP's 350. There's still a few councils left to declare, but it's a crushing Tory advance. Ruth Davidson will be celebrating tonight. If the General Election shows even a vaguely similar result in terms of votes cast, it will destroy the SNP's claim for a fresh referendum.


wow... seems Labours rout is pretty extreme. suprised SNP lost ground in there Holy land but yeah, Tory is the Union party now.
Labour is a divided mess and the lib dems are tiny.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Oxfordshire falls to No Overall Control! That is largely thanks to me, I believe.

UKIP is collapsing as predicted. I wonder if they have paid out their deposits for the general election...


Yeah, UKIP are dead and buried, with the end result being that they will flock back to the Tories and make the Tories even more right-wing.

Still, some good news: the SNP are still the largest party in my council area, so I'm happy.


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 Kilkrazy wrote:
Oxfordshire falls to No Overall Control! That is largely thanks to me, I believe.


You also got rid of that gakker Nimmo Smith. I wonder if his replacement will be any less horrifically incompetent with the roads.

 insaniak wrote:
Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Yeah, UKIP are dead and buried, with the end result being that they will flock back to the Tories and make the Tories even more right-wing.

Still, some good news: the SNP are still the largest party in my council area, so I'm happy.



Alternatively it's perhaps because we now have TorUKIP as the blue party and those that abandoned more central Tory's for far political right leanings now have made their point and are going back to the grass roots because Tories have just copied UKIPs mantra against the EU.

I haven't really seen the percentages but it looks like SNP are fine. Tories have gained at the expense of Labour more than anything and there doesn't appear to be any swing from SNP (there areas they have lost I would hazard are because of the swing to the Tories from the Labour votes overtaking the SNP static vote. That SNP are the in power party in Scotland and they have retained so much is actually quite impressive. Given that in general local elections bring out more of the older, conservative voters then it's looking good for the SNP in the GE

Now you just have to go independent and stop letting the weak and idiotic Tories and Labour dominate the country from Westminster!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ketara wrote:
Well. We all know Corbyn will feth this up, probably shed a good sixty seats to the Tories, and then get booted.

So the question has to be; who will replace him? My bets are on Chuka Umunna making a play for it, or Sadiq Khan. Angela Eagle will likely make another run. Apparently a Labour poll group has been roadtesting some newbie called Rebecca Long-Bailey as a potential leader, but I don't reckon she's got the chops to fend off the others.


Rebecca Long-Bailey did very well on QT last night. Very literate and passionate about what she said and destroyed David Davis whose responses on homelessness equalled Trumps ability to put together a rational argument (and this is the person negotiating our future! ).

Of course one showing does not make her a leader but she does appear to be more inspiring than Corbyn can ever be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jhe90 wrote:


wow... seems Labours rout is pretty extreme. suprised SNP lost ground in there Holy land but yeah, Tory is the Union party now.
Labour is a divided mess and the lib dems are tiny.


Lib Dems aren't that small. BBC noted that they got 17% of the share (not seen any official figures yet). That's a substantial proportion (and too much to call tiny). What has cost them is the UKIP supporters swinging back to UKIPinblue and because of the first past the post system what was previously a divided electorate between those two parties is now stronger as they've all re-joined one.

But I agree UKIP are dead and buried now, the people don't need UKIP now that they have a larger, older UKIP to choose from.

------

And apparently people are now getting upset because the EU are going to speak less English which well beggars belief really.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jean-claude-juncker-english-eu_uk_590c8318e4b0d5d9049bc70c?ir=UK+Politics&utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/05/05 19:10:53


"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 Whirlwind wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


Yeah, UKIP are dead and buried, with the end result being that they will flock back to the Tories and make the Tories even more right-wing.

Still, some good news: the SNP are still the largest party in my council area, so I'm happy.



Alternatively it's perhaps because we now have TorUKIP as blue party that those that abandoned Tory's for far political right leanings now have made their point and go back to the grass roots because Tories have just copied UKIPs mantra against the EU.

I haven't really seen the percentages but it looks like SNP are fine. Tories have gained at the expense of Labour more than anything and there doesn't appear to be any swing from SNP (there areas they have lost I would hazard are because of the swing to the Tories from the Labour votes overtaking the SNP static vote. That SNP are the in power party in Scotland and they have retained so much is actually quite impressive. Given that in general local elections bring out more of the older, conservative voters then it's looking good for the SNP in the GE

Now you just have to go independent and stop letting the weak and idiotic Tories and Labour dominate the country from Westminster!


It's amusing to see the BBC and the MSM trying to push the Tory victory in Scotland mantra, but the figures are out and they speak for themselves.

This is the SNP's best ever local election result. They have won more seats, and are the largest party in more councils than anybody else. Their vote share is at 44%. Compare that to the Tories bragging about reaching 38% of the vote.

By any metric, this is a major victory for the SNP, a party who have been in government for 10 years, and yet, they have INCREASED their councillor numbers.

And all this on a STV voting system. If these numbers hold up for June 8th, it's another SNP landslide in Scotland withy FPTP.

And yet, some people are saying this is a setback for the SNP?

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


This is the SNP's best ever local election result. They have won more seats, and are the largest party in more councils than anybody else. Their vote share is at 44%. Compare that to the Tories bragging about reaching 38% of the vote.

By any metric, this is a major victory for the SNP, a party who have been in government for 10 years, and yet, they have INCREASED their councillor numbers.

And all this on a STV voting system. If these numbers hold up for June 8th, it's another SNP landslide in Scotland withy FPTP.

And yet, some people are saying this is a setback for the SNP?


This is on top that local elections generally favour conservative older leanings. The GE generally at least bring more youthful voters out and they are move favourable to leaving and SNP so yes based on these results I do expect SNP to almost make a clean sweep of Scotland and Labour will probably have none by the end of it).

I think the Tories are hamming up their percentages because with such a clean sweep they will be hard pressed not to have another referendum (though generally I think referendums are a bad idea and SNP should just say vote us in and we'll work towards leaving as an election mandate). After all that is what May is going to do over Brexit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/05 19:17:58


"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob





UK

The Conservatives, the party that divided country, to unite themselves.

"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

The Lib-Dems' problem is partly that their traditional strong area of the west country leant pretty strongly towards Breit and the Lib-Dems are the strongest leaning anti-Brexit party.

However, the Lib-Dems can hope to pick up votes in urbane areas like Richmond-on-Thames.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Whirlwind wrote:

Rebecca Long-Bailey did very well on QT last night. Very literate and passionate about what she said and destroyed David Davis whose responses on homelessness equalled Trumps ability to put together a rational argument (and this is the person negotiating our future! ).

Of course one showing does not make her a leader but she does appear to be more inspiring than Corbyn can ever be.


When I say she hasn't the chops, I'm referring to her experience level. Perceptions of debates vary depending on the viewer and their biases, after all, not to mention how bad a day any one of the interviewees is having!

Long-Bailey joined in 2015, and she only even got into Corbyn's shadow Cabinet after he ran out of anyone else but the fresh facers. Christ, she didn't even have to fight a proper campaign to be an MP, she was an all woman shortlist. I mean, we're literally talking about a year as an MP, during which she was stuffed into the NEC by Corbyn, followed by seven months as a Junior shadow Minister after the mass resignations, and now three months as a senior shadow minister after the second round of defections.

And it shows, apparently she got nailed to wall by Andrew Neil for not knowing essential industrial schemes that are part of her portfolio, and I've read elsewhere she got pinned down on the Marr show you're referring to when she got asked where the £63 billion pounds a Corbyn Government says it would spend would come from and hadn't a clue. Not a great showing for the Shadow Secretary of State for Business and Industrial Strategy! She simply hasn't been around long enough to even know what her last job is, let alone her current one. Christ knows what would happen if you inserted her as a Junior Minister, let alone the First Among Equals!

If she had some sort of appeal that could help bring the Labour Party back, it might be worth it. But she literally got a second class degree in politics from an ex-polytechnic and then went to work for a solicitors firm! Something tells me she ain't going be bringing those working class votes rolling back!

The Labour Party talent tap is dry. Practically every experienced senior politician is long discredited or retired, and all their carefully groomed juniors have shown themselves substanceless and talentless for anything that isn't Westminster intrigue. They've turned into such a poisoned chalice that the few decent ones left take one look at it and go, 'Nah, I'd rather retire in peace at some point in the next decade'. All that's left are the arselickers that just jumped onto the first rung in the last two elections, who collectively have less experience than just a single one of the oldies (say, Frank Field).

What a pathetic, and truly sad shambles for the Party that introduced the NHS.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/05 20:28:26



 
   
Made in gb
Drakhun





Wow, these council results have had the Tories absolutely murder labour and UKIP across the board.


Even the valleys of Wales have gone against them. Poor sods.

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avoiding the lorax on Crion

 welshhoppo wrote:
Wow, these council results have had the Tories absolutely murder labour and UKIP across the board.


Even the valleys of Wales have gone against them. Poor sods.


The fact the bastions and great ancestral labour realms long held for decades are weakening.
Corbyn is going to not be a leader if they lose the old fortresses.


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

These results are a huge warning and there's no time to do anything before the general election but cruise into oblivion. It's going to be a disaster.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ketara wrote:


When I say she hasn't the chops, I'm referring to her experience level. Perceptions of debates vary depending on the viewer and their biases, after all, not to mention how bad a day any one of the interviewees is having!

Long-Bailey joined in 2015, and she only even got into Corbyn's shadow Cabinet after he ran out of anyone else but the fresh facers. Christ, she didn't even have to fight a proper campaign to be an MP, she was an all woman shortlist. I mean, we're literally talking about a year as an MP, during which she was stuffed into the NEC by Corbyn, followed by seven months as a Junior shadow Minister after the mass resignations, and now three months as a senior shadow minister after the second round of defections.


There is no doubt she is inexperienced, but that's not necessarily a bad thing if it brings a fresh perspective to the table. You might class it as only inexperience in the weird world of politics we have currently and to be honest it's not really that this works, provides the country sensible options or gives the country full debates on the issues to hand. For the most part this election has so far been name calling and telling the other side they are 'useless' (paraphrasing). I'm less bothered about the specific schemes as someone that has been in a job for three months isn't likely to know everything (which would apply to us all) and hence it would be easy to pick and choose a scheme they haven't read up on (depending on what else they have been up to). Also not announcing anything before their manifesto is out is not really an unwise move in case things haven't been finalised (we saw how well Hammonds comments went on taxes for example).

It would indeed be a gamble to put her into the PM position, she might be out of her depth, but on the other hand the political inexperience might hand favour her if she was more to the point and she skewered (metaphorically) week on week (I can only hope as May is so weak anyway and can't cope with anything other than prepared soundbites and believe that any real debate and she will flounder, hence why she is avoiding the TV debate like the plague). On the other hand if anything shows us from this election is that knowing your stuff is far less important than just repeating the same mantra over and over and instilling irrational fear of "those people over there", so if she can engage an electorate through passion it might be enough.

If she had some sort of appeal that could help bring the Labour Party back, it might be worth it. But she literally got a second class degree in politics from an ex-polytechnic and then went to work for a solicitors firm! Something tells me she ain't going be bringing those working class votes rolling back!


I think Labour are going to have to accept at some point that going full hog and far left to try and only pander to the working class is never going to get them into power. Just not enough people from this category even bother to vote to give Labour a chance and the opportunity for the country to have a balanced parliament that will debate issues rather than just railroad any crackpot scheme through. This is where they were in the 80's and it was only in the 90's with Blair where they moved to the centre that they could capture enough of the populace's imagination that they got a meaningful chance. There's just not enough true socialists left for Labour to win this way. They need to win over people like my middle brother (in a top 2% wage category), who today stated that he liked Tories because they benefit him. When asked about his youngest brother and family (who would be in the bottom 2% of the wage category) and the impacts on the social welfare systems he uses, the middle brother just shrugged his shoulder and repeated it was better for him (needless to say I was vastly disappointed). Until Labour can persuade such people to at least consider Labour they aren't really going to get anywhere.

The Labour Party talent tap is dry. Practically every experienced senior politician is long discredited or retired, and all their carefully groomed juniors have shown themselves substanceless and talentless for anything that isn't Westminster intrigue. They've turned into such a poisoned chalice that the few decent ones left take one look at it and go, 'Nah, I'd rather retire in peace at some point in the next decade'. All that's left are the arselickers that just jumped onto the first rung in the last two elections, who collectively have less experience than just a single one of the oldies (say, Frank Field).


This isn't going to really change though. Corbyn and cronies are doing the best to try and ensure that. The only hope is that someone has hoodwinked them enough that they get and then really change things. However I'd at least like a balanced parliament so we can have debates on what is being proposed. A far right Tory party is just as bad as a far left Labour party!


"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob





UK

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
These results are a huge warning and there's no time to do anything before the general election but cruise into oblivion. It's going to be a disaster.


Yes, but on the plus side, the conservatives will reap what they've sown. This is their only chance, as a united party, to prove that their ideology works, almost without opposition. Out of the EU and with no one else to blame they will be entirely acountable for every thing that will happen over the next 5 years.

The left needs to go away, and rebuild itself.
I think it also probably also needs to consolidate into one party too, or accept coalition and cooperation between Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens as the defacto standard, otherwise there will never be another centre left party in power.

Either that or we must push for a major reform to scrap fptp. When Scotland leaves, we will be stuck with the Tories running the show pretty much until some sort of seismic upheaval radically changes the thought process' of England.

"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Whirlwind wrote:

There is no doubt she is inexperienced, but that's not necessarily a bad thing if it brings a fresh perspective to the table. You might class it as only inexperience in the weird world of politics we have currently and to be honest it's not really that this works, provides the country sensible options or gives the country full debates on the issues to hand.


Actually, I kind of do think it's important. I know everyone complains about professional politicians, and I agree with that. Why? Because it means politicians are out of touch, and have no idea how normal people live. But being an inexperienced politician with good perspective is no better, it's simply swapping the inadequacies around. Substituting perspective for experience in the most important jobs in the country isn't a good idea by any stretch.

The ideal politician (for me), is born into a normal family (i.e., not millionaires as parents). They go out, and work in the real world for five, maybe ten years. Work that crappy Costa job part-time, then move into the professional world for a bit. Develop a skill set and a knowledge base.

Once they've done that, they've got the perspective. And she has that bit checked, which is great! But the next bit is equally crucial. Usually, having gotten settled, they display an interest in politics. Get involved at the local club for a good five years, build support, get to know the area. Then run for selection as an MP. Settle into Westminster for a term, and learn how the halls of power work, how the civil service is set up, which Parliamentary pub does the best bacon butties, how to juggle their responsibilities as an MP with their personal lives, and so on. Making sure they're a good MP. She's yet to do this.

Then comes the final stage. You get appointed to a junior (shadow) ministry or two. Sit on some committees. Read widely about them. Learn the detailed ins and outs of a good two or three portfolios. Then that means that when the time comes to get promoted up the chain again to a senior position, you know your areas of expertise. If you make it as Minister for Trade (for example), you already know the most important industries and figures, what's important for them, where costs can be cut, and taxes raised. You have the contacts and the experience to slip into the job, so that when the Party Leader asks you what should go in the Manifesto or what the opposition is doing wrong, you have detailed, well worked out theories to hand.

Then, once you've had some time at the top, you can start thinking about being Party Leader/PM.

I mean, how can Corbyn expect for one minute to be able to deliver a dashing blow to Tory trade policy when his own senior minister doesn't even know what the country exports? I daresay one of the reasons his manifesto and briefings are so atrocious is because he has absolutely no experience to call on! So instead, he and May mimic each other, and they just sit there in Parliament lobbing passive aggressive insults at each other, and ignoring everything of substance whilst Rome burns. And the reason May can do that is because Corbyn doesn't know how to do anything else, and doesn't have the experienced MP's to draw knowledge from to make up for his inadequacies there.

I think Labour are going to have to accept at some point that going full hog and far left to try and only pander to the working class is never going to get them into power.
J
Solely trying to pander? No, it won't. But if they're not on board, Labour will never have sufficient votes, the Tories and the Lib Dems soak up too much of the centre ground. Plus, they're the entire purpose for the existence of the Labour Party! If they'd abandon them just to try and sniff power, they don't deserve it.

And the proof is in the pudding. They did just that, their core vote has vanished into the wind, and they're toppling like dominoes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/05 22:38:37



 
   
 
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