Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Knockagh wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
Oh goody an Authoritarian Tory pm with a dislike of human rights teams up with the Irish Taliban(No Gays, No women, No Religon but ours and the sky fairy made the eath) this is going to end badly.

And before you run away with yourself and start nonsense about abortion, we do have abortion in NI, we just don't allow it on social grounds. It's perfectly legal and on health issues.

Those 'health issues' only cover serious risk to the life of the mother. Rape and incest, or foetal abnormalities are presumably those unaccepted 'social' reasons you mention.

The coalition is a day old and already there are murmurings about abortion limit reductions being debated.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-dup-deal-abortion-commons-debate-time-limits-lower-owen-paterson-conservative-mp-minority-a7783221.html%3Famp

 Knockagh wrote:
And before you run away with yourself and start nonsense about abortion, we do have abortion in NI, we just don't allow it on social grounds. It's perfectly legal and on health issues. That is a view commonly held across the world. One that is shared by all the main political parties in Northern Ireland. There could be a vote in the Northern Ireland assembly tomorrow on it and if the DUP didn't show up it would still fail. Alliance and greens are the only ones who want this to change.

You keep saying that the rest of the UK needs to educate itself on the politics of NI. If there's going to be a loose coalition between Tories and DUP then that's going to thrust NI politics into the foreground from where they have been ignored, and when the rest of the world starts to recognise how retrograde NI politics is you're going to wish we hadn't payed any attention. NI needs to educate itself and catch up with the politics of the rest of the UK.

(I say this as someone who has lived for a good length of time in Antrim)

Well I took the time to read the DUP manifesto. All looks pretty normal to be honest.
The only thing radical I could see was replacement of the tv license for a subscription based service.
They are opposed to any cuts to the winter fuel allowance, so you an bet that will not change.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well I took the time to read the DUP manifesto. All looks pretty normal to be honest.
The only thing radical I could see was replacement of the tv license for a subscription based service.
They are opposed to any cuts to the winter fuel allowance, so you an bet that will not change.

m

Well done captain bob for actually reading something and not basing your thoughts on memes, gifs, lily Allen, you tube wannabe superstars etc. Some will be surprised you didn't find the bible with bin collections after all.
I have great faith in the British public to look beyond media hype and find the truth, which is always way more complicated than a cursory glance suggests.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anyone want to check out some material to get to know the politicians you could do worse than reading this article in the local paper from a few years ago when Arlene took over as leader of the DUP

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-relives-horror-of-fathers-shooting-by-ira-and-tells-how-bus-blast-could-have-killed-her-34297350.html

The situation is fluid.

May is doing everything she can to shore up her position. She is too weak for a proper cabinet reshuffle and has had to sack her two main advisers, allegedly as the price of avoiding an immediate leadership challenge. However her position in Parliament will be very difficult, a razor thin majority balanced on the support of the DUP and any Pro-EU Tory rebels. Even with the DUP support and the absence of the Sinn Fein members, May's working majority is only three votes.

It will be like John Major again, though to be fair, he managed to hold it together for several years.

I doubt that May will survive the party conference in early October.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Graphite wrote:
There is going to be a degree of... re-education about Northern Irish politics.

Oh yes. Yes there will.

I'd be surprised if there were no orange order members in DUF.

You see? The Orange Order aren't terrorists. Terrifying, yes, but not terrorists.

 Knockagh wrote:


Well done captain bob for actually reading something and not basing your thoughts on memes, gifs, lily Allen, you tube wannabe superstars etc. Some will be surprised you didn't find the bible with bin collections after all.
I have great faith in the British public to look beyond media hype and find the truth, which is always way more complicated than a cursory glance suggests.

Manifestos are one thing. How did the DUP actually run their campaign? Genuine questions, as I too haven't been keeping that up to date with politics back home (since I can't, y'know, vote there)

 Henry wrote:

You keep saying that the rest of the UK needs to educate itself on the politics of NI. If there's going to be a loose coalition between Tories and DUP then that's going to thrust NI politics into the foreground from where they have been ignored, and when the rest of the world starts to recognise how retrograde NI politics is you're going to wish we hadn't payed any attention. NI needs to educate itself and catch up with the politics of the rest of the UK.

(I say this as someone who has lived for a good length of time in Antrim)

No, I'd say that most people in Norn Iron would be pretty happy with the rest of the UK paying attention for once for reasons other than "Are the natives still shooting each other, I hope they don't come over here with their bombs". And I'd also say that most folk from N.I. would be pretty up to date with UK politics rather than having to educate themselves on what's happening on the mainland. Due to having the BBC and most of the rest of UK media pretty much on tap. When I was a kid I'd say I knew more about UK politics than local politics.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The situation is fluid.

May is doing everything she can to shore up her position. She is too weak for a proper cabinet reshuffle and has had to sack her two main advisers, allegedly as the price of avoiding an immediate leadership challenge. However her position in Parliament will be very difficult, a razor thin majority balanced on the support of the DUP and any Pro-EU Tory rebels. Even with the DUP support and the absence of the Sinn Fein members, May's working majority is only three votes.

It will be like John Major again, though to be fair, he managed to hold it together for several years.

I doubt that May will survive the party conference in early October.

May is a zombie PM. In office, but not in power. That's a pretty accurate description from the newspapers. She's finished, and once again, because the Tories put party before country, the UK is in a mess ahead of crucial talks.

Do people on Dakka see now why I've been against the Tories all my life? They are a threat, risk, to the UK's safety. Cutting police numbers and now sabotaging the UK ahead of talks that will define this nation for decades.

And people still vote for them. I will never understand why


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Knockagh wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well I took the time to read the DUP manifesto. All looks pretty normal to be honest.
The only thing radical I could see was replacement of the tv license for a subscription based service.
They are opposed to any cuts to the winter fuel allowance, so you an bet that will not change.

m

Well done captain bob for actually reading something and not basing your thoughts on memes, gifs, lily Allen, you tube wannabe superstars etc. Some will be surprised you didn't find the bible with bin collections after all.
I have great faith in the British public to look beyond media hype and find the truth, which is always way more complicated than a cursory glance suggests.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anyone want to check out some material to get to know the politicians you could do worse than reading this article in the local paper from a few years ago when Arlene took over as leader of the DUP

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-relives-horror-of-fathers-shooting-by-ira-and-tells-how-bus-blast-could-have-killed-her-34297350.html

No disrespect to you, but I think you need to read up on the rest of the UK. The UK still hasn't gotten over World War 2, distrusts the Germans, and thinks Merkel is trying to take over Europe. They have long memories.

So when these same people look at Northern Ireland, they see only Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams. They remember the bombs and the murders of the 1980s.

Even if the DUP had the cure for cancer, they would still be faced with deep mistrust. And for that reason, I think you're wasting your time if you think those people will put aside their decades long prejuduce against Northern Ireland.

@graphite Campaign was largely run off the back of the recent assembly elections and the belief that Sinn Fein had collapsed the assembly and local government for tactical reasons. Mostly as their vote amongst die hard republicans had been falling, also their vote in the republic has started to slip. Collapsing government gave them a huge boost so much so they had started to demand a border poll. Which under the terms of the good Friday agreement would put us into a cycle of border polls every 7 years which most Unionists felt would pretty much institutionalise everything that's wrong with our wee country. SF are desperate to get a border poll to kick off the 7 year cycle. Scottish Indy ref on speed. The DUP encouraged people to use the election as a border poll to send a message that the union should be maintained and we need to get back to governing ourselves under the institution and the St. Andrews agreement. Hence the manifesto was geared toward providing an attractive and workable local assembly.

Another little aside that has people scratching over here is the storm over the letter endorsing the DUP (and other unionists) from loyalist paramilitaries. The group representing them who sent the letter was established by none other than Labours own Jonathan Powell! With the purpose of helping to move loyalist groups from violence into engaging in the political arena. So they did exactly what Powell and Labour asked and now their getting slaughtered for it! Crazy stuff


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And if you all want a real laugh to get you smiling this Sunday morning read this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7683450/General-Election-2010-DUP-now-being-courted-by-Labour.html

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well I took the time to read the DUP manifesto. All looks pretty normal to be honest.
The only thing radical I could see was replacement of the tv license for a subscription based service.
They are opposed to any cuts to the winter fuel allowance, so you an bet that will not change.

The problem is that you don't put something in the manifesto unless you want to change it. That the manifesto doesn't include improvement in LGBT rights, the rights of women to act as they see fit (resulting in them secretly having to go to the rest of the UK for abortions) and so on is more telling because they aren't included. They won't also tell you that they will try and push "the world is 6000 years old" tripe or climate change isn't real - they just come afterwards.

The DUP social agenda in this regard is something more akin to the 1600s rather the 21st century.

This is before we take into account the RHI scandal which either comes down to gross incompetence, gross mismanagement or, if as some accusations have been suggested, state funding of the DUP supporters - and this being just the person the leads the DUP. Of course the DUP are now going to have face the full force of the British press now, rather than the limited exposure they have currently. Given this is I fully expect that other not so sound decisions will come to light in the next year. Still it might do the SF, alliance and other parties some good in the long term. We all saw what happened to the LDs when they power shared.

As for May she is doing her best to hold on to power. Removing her aides means that the she is losing people she trusts, although reading some of the reports it seems they pretty much bullied everyone to tow the line. Question is though whether May employed because of the way they acted. It's also going to be difficult to keep reiterating that she wants new laws protecting "British values" when she appears to be so keen to get in bed with people that the majority of the British populace probably wouldn't see that way. I can imagine what will be the end of May will be trying to leave the ECHR and ECJ as the principled line she has spouted has disappeared in a last ditch attempt to hold onto power.

Of course the rumours are that Boris the Clown wants to make another leadership bid. I'm not sure which would be worse to be honest...

 Whirlwind wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well I took the time to read the DUP manifesto. All looks pretty normal to be honest.
The only thing radical I could see was replacement of the tv license for a subscription based service.
They are opposed to any cuts to the winter fuel allowance, so you an bet that will not change.

The problem is that you don't put something in the manifesto unless you want to change it. That the manifesto doesn't include improvement in LGBT rights, the rights of women to act as they see fit (resulting in them secretly having to go to the rest of the UK for abortions) and so on is more telling because they aren't included. They won't also tell you that they will try and push "the world is 6000 years old" tripe or climate change isn't real - they just come afterwards.

The DUP social agenda in this regard is something more akin to the 1600s rather the 21st century.

This is before we take into account the RHI scandal which either comes down to gross incompetence, gross mismanagement or, if as some accusations have been suggested, state funding of the DUP supporters - and this being just the person the leads the DUP. Of course the DUP are now going to have face the full force of the British press now, rather than the limited exposure they have currently. Given this is I fully expect that other not so sound decisions will come to light in the next year. Still it might do the SF, alliance and other parties some good in the long term. We all saw what happened to the LDs when they power shared.

As for May she is doing her best to hold on to power. Removing her aides means that the she is losing people she trusts, although reading some of the reports it seems they pretty much bullied everyone to tow the line. Question is though whether May employed because of the way they acted. It's also going to be difficult to keep reiterating that she wants new laws protecting "British values" when she appears to be so keen to get in bed with people that the majority of the British populace probably wouldn't see that way. I can imagine what will be the end of May will be trying to leave the ECHR and ECJ as the principled line she has spouted has disappeared in a last ditch attempt to hold onto power.

Of course the rumours are that Boris the Clown wants to make another leadership bid. I'm not sure which would be worse to be honest...

People seem to keep under estimating him too though.
However he had survived a very long time in some pretty shark infested waters, ran a good olympics, he no fool and had his momements too yes that where a tad unwise.

However all round, he might be seen as andit of a bafoon, he also os a pretty smart one. Adapts quickly on the fly far better than May and some others.

When you talk about the DUPs abortion policy you do all realise that the SDLP who had 3 MPs up until a few days ago and have taken the Labour whip for 30 years have exactly the same position on abortion.

Boris didn't run the Olympics, he had the luck to become Mayor of London at the time that other people were running a good Olympics. If you look at his genuine record of achievement as Mayor, the cupboard is pretty bare.

In fact, his genuine record of achievement at everything that matters apart from self-promotion is pretty bare.

 Knockagh wrote:
When you talk about the DUPs abortion policy you do all realise that the SDLP who had 3 MPs up until a few days ago and have taken the Labour whip for 30 years have exactly the same position on abortion.

That maybe so, but the SDLP or indeed any other NI party are not about to be the Lynch pin of British policy.
Besides, there will be no change on abortion outside of the province, that would be political suicide.

Your not understanding modern unionism. Abortion is a devolved matter. To involve themselves in that would be against the very principles of the union itself.

 Knockagh wrote:
When you talk about the DUPs abortion policy you do all realise that the SDLP who had 3 MPs up until a few days ago and have taken the Labour whip for 30 years have exactly the same position on abortion.

A coalition with pretty much any NI party other than maybe Alliance would get a hammering in the British press. Saying the DUP are backwards shouldn't be read as an indication that everyone else is hunkydory.



If Boris has a punt, I think it would be as a stalking horse rather than as a serious candidate.

Good times a'head.



http://www.itv.com/news/2017-03-27/what-is-next-for-northern-ireland-after-power-sharing-talks-collapse/


https://twitter.com/skydavidblevins/status/873682026116907013


"BREAK: DUP has NOT yet reached any agreement with the Tories. Sky sources: Downing Street issued the wrong statement in error."



..of course...


and these are the people we're having to use for the Brexit talks.




One would've thought... hoped maybe even.. that there'd be a minimum level of competence present in ones Govt. but alas....

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/873674408224862210

LAB: 45% (+5)
CON: 39% (-3)
LDEM: 7% (-)
UKIP: 3% (+1)

(via @Survation / 10 Jun)
Chgs. w/ GE2017


... which would result in -- another -- hung parliament.

... still least things cannot get any more unbelievab....








... still least we can relax , safe in the knowledge that no one would elect a bumbling fat oaf with ridiculous hair and a penchant for adultery to high office......

....


... oh bugger.

To be fair to the English, Northern Ireland is a surprisingly distant place. If you live in the south-east -- and 23 million of us do -- it's easier to get to France or Holland than to NI. That doesn't excuse peoples' ignorance, of course.

I think it's a good thing to bring what are often called "the provinces" by Londoners closer to the centre of the national stage. A lot of our current problems have been created by media and political concentration on what's good for the City and the Westminster bubble.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
To be fair to the English, Northern Ireland is a surprisingly distant place. If you live in the south-east -- and 23 million of us do -- it's easier to get to France or Holland than to NI. That doesn't excuse peoples' ignorance, of course.

I think it's a good thing to bring what are often called "the provinces" by Londoners closer to the centre of the national stage. A lot of our current problems have been created by media and political concentration on what's good for the City and the Westminster bubble.

I lived in England for a number of years, and the idea that Home Counties Conservatives will accommodate the party of Ian Paisley is risible nonsense. It is doomed to failure. As a neutral follower of the Conservative Home website, I know from the comments there that your average Home Counties Tory is aghast at the idea at getting into bed with the DUP.

Corbyn is right to prepare for another election, as this unholy alliance will not last.

May is finished. For once, George Osborne got it right - she's a dead woman walking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:

Spoiler:

Good times a'head.



http://www.itv.com/news/2017-03-27/what-is-next-for-northern-ireland-after-power-sharing-talks-collapse/


https://twitter.com/skydavidblevins/status/873682026116907013


"BREAK: DUP has NOT yet reached any agreement with the Tories. Sky sources: Downing Street issued the wrong statement in error."



..of course...


and these are the people we're having to use for the Brexit talks.




One would've thought... hoped maybe even.. that there'd be a minimum level of competence present in ones Govt. but alas....

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/873674408224862210

LAB: 45% (+5)
CON: 39% (-3)
LDEM: 7% (-)
UKIP: 3% (+1)

(via @Survation / 10 Jun)
Chgs. w/ GE2017


... which would result in -- another -- hung parliament.

... still least things cannot get any more unbelievab....

Spoiler:

... still least we can relax , safe in the knowledge that no one would elect a bumbling fat oaf with ridiculous hair and a penchant for adultery to high office......

....


... oh bugger.

I don't know about you, but when I woke up this morning, I thanked the Gods for waking up in a strong and stable Britain.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I lived in England for a number of years, and the idea that Home Counties Conservatives will accommodate the party of Ian Paisley is risible nonsense. It is doomed to failure. As a neutral follower of the Conservative Home website, I know from the comments there that your average Home Counties Tory is aghast at the idea at getting into bed with the DUP.

Yep. I don't think there's been sufficient acknowledgement from people on either side of the water that when the average swing voter who (traditionally) decides elections gets a load of the DUP they will be aghast. Which isn't going to help anyone. Northern Irish politics, after rightfully getting some attention paid to it, will be treated even more like a parochial backwater, whilst Westminster will be the shakiest of shaky parliaments where the ravines that separate the hard right of the Tory party and its modernisers will get even wider.

It'd be relentlessly funny on TV.

nfe wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I lived in England for a number of years, and the idea that Home Counties Conservatives will accommodate the party of Ian Paisley is risible nonsense. It is doomed to failure. As a neutral follower of the Conservative Home website, I know from the comments there that your average Home Counties Tory is aghast at the idea at getting into bed with the DUP.

Yep. I don't think there's been sufficient acknowledgement from people on either side of the water that when the average swing voter who (traditionally) decides elections gets a load of the DUP they will be aghast. Which isn't going to help anyone. Northern Irish politics, after rightfully getting some attention paid to it, will be treated even more like a parochial backwater, whilst Westminster will be the shakiest of shaky parliaments where the ravines the separate the hard right of the Tory party and it's modernisers will get even wider.

It'd be relentlessly funny on TV.

Nigel Farage is threatening a comeback, Bojo is being touted as a potential PM Brexit talks are upon us, The Prime Minister is in office but has no power, and there will probably be another election within months.

I used to think American politics was interesting, but they have zero on the UK. This is where the action is.

 Whirlwind wrote:

The problem is we don't really know this because there's an added complication that hasn't been there before. It's called education; generally this makes them more socially aware and higher educations usually relates to more left wing votes. We could be on the cusp of changing politics as the 90's and millennials have significantly better education and that might trump the age = conservative. We'll probably know over the next 15-20 years. If education trumps age then we will see a slow push of elderly voters moving towards left wing policies over time. Perhaps it is already happening, Tory supporter (as in those that have joined the party) base is already aging rapidly.

Curious. In finland higher education usually lead toward right side rather than left.

Let's be 100% neutral here and take a clear look at the DUP,

Ignore anything about climate change,abortion, or anything about The Troubles.

There are two major problems for the Conservatives:

1. The renewable scandal, which will be used by Labour to damage the DUP, and the Tories will be guilty by association.

2. The collapse of power sharing in Northern Ireland. How can the Tory government be an honest broker when they are reliant on the DUP to prop them up.

I cannot see how the Tories can get around these two issues. Add zombie May to the mix, and another General Election is inevitable.

I've found the same in the Home Counties at least. The poorer vote Labour, the richer, and better educated, vote Tory.

Somebody proposed a flippant idea that May had called the election deliberately to lose so that Labour carry the can for Brexit negotiations then come steaming back in when it's all done.

Why couldn't Labour do the same now? Brexit is less than two years away. Labour can play nice until then, just about keep government from collapsing while putting the Tories through the wringer. Then when Brexit has proven to be the monumental balls up that pretty much everyone is expecting it to be they can really start hammering the nails in. It gives them time to get their MPs in line as well, now that Corbyn has shown he has can lead the party to an electoral victory and all the fall out from Brexit gets lumped on the Tories.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Let's be 100% neutral here and take a clear look at the DUP,

Ignore anything about climate change,abortion, or anything about The Troubles.

You can't ignore these issues, though. You can largely ignore the Troubles, because most people in Britain are woefully clueless about the issues beyond being able to essentially map the main players onto nationalist/Catholic/unionist/Protestant, but being a creationist, a homophobe, a climate-change denier, or being anti-abortion, (and being proud of it, as opposed to downplaying something you said years ago) are all career-enders for politicians in Britain. Hell, the only question Tim Farron was asked for months was 'do you believe homosexuality is a sin?'. The Tories are going to be skewered on a daily basis as bigots by association.

It's a totally untenable relationship. Of course, they can't call another election because they'd get annihilated. Seeing the Tories in this much of a state is an absolute joy. It's as much fun as the selfcombustion of Labour through the first decade of this millennium. I love apolitical car-crash.

You are absolutely right on the farce of attempting to act as a neutral negotiator in Stormont whilst being propped up by one of the parties you're attempting to mediate between. Total nonsense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I've found the same in the Home Counties at least. The poorer vote Labour, the richer, and better educated, vote Tory.

Tribal voting with parties doesn't quite map onto right/left. Most academic studies on the issue do tend to support a correlation between education and progressively further left views, at least in the UK and US.

 Henry wrote:
Somebody proposed a flippant idea that May had called the election deliberately to lose so that Labour carry the can for Brexit negotiations then come steaming back in when it's all done.

Why couldn't Labour do the same now? Brexit is less than two years away. Labour can play nice until then, just about keep government from collapsing while putting the Tories through the wringer. Then when Brexit has proven to be the monumental balls up that pretty much everyone is expecting it to be they can really start hammering the nails in. It gives them time to get their MPs in line as well, now that Corbyn has shown he has can lead the party to an electoral victory and all the fall out from Brexit gets lumped on the Tories.

Well, the main problem with that plan is it involves selling out the entire UK for the foreseeable future in order to make temporary gains for your political party.

That works for the Tories.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what May has done. She had a small majority, enough to work with, and after a lot of stalling we were finally about to start the Brexit negotiations. Then she called this fething pointless election and ruined absolutely everything. Now we have a seriously weakened hand going forward and that impending disaster Corbyn is within a hair's grasp of Downing Street.

Maybe she planned this all along, being a Remainer and everything. Sabotage the feth out of Brexit to kill it dead. I could believe it if she wasn't so stupid.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Henry wrote:
Somebody proposed a flippant idea that May had called the election deliberately to lose so that Labour carry the can for Brexit negotiations then come steaming back in when it's all done.

Why couldn't Labour do the same now? Brexit is less than two years away. Labour can play nice until then, just about keep government from collapsing while putting the Tories through the wringer. Then when Brexit has proven to be the monumental balls up that pretty much everyone is expecting it to be they can really start hammering the nails in. It gives them time to get their MPs in line as well, now that Corbyn has shown he has can lead the party to an electoral victory and all the fall out from Brexit gets lumped on the Tories.

Well, the main problem with that plan is it involves selling out the entire UK for the foreseeable future in order to make temporary gains for your political party.

It's the Conservative party. They've been doing it since the days of King George I


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around what May has done. She had a small majority, enough to work with, and after a lot of stalling we were finally about to start the Brexit negotiations. Then she called this fething pointless election and ruined absolutely everything. Now we have a seriously weakened hand going forward and that impending disaster Corbyn is within a hair's grasp of Downing Street.

Maybe she planned this all along, being a Remainer and everything. Sabotage the feth out of Brexit to kill it dead. I could believe it if she wasn't so stupid.

You're crediting May with political skill and scheming which would make Bismarck and Machiavelli look like complete amateurs. This was pure incompetence from May.

And why did they do it? I've been saying it for years: The Conservatives always put party before country, and yet, people still vote for them...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nfe wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Let's be 100% neutral here and take a clear look at the DUP,

Ignore anything about climate change,abortion, or anything about The Troubles.

You can't ignore these issues, though. You can largely ignore the Troubles, because most people in Britain are woefully clueless about the issues beyond being able to essentially map the main players onto nationalist/Catholic/unionist/Protestant, but being a creationist, a homophobe, a climate-change denier, or being anti-abortion, (and being proud of it, as opposed to downplaying something you said years ago) are all career-enders for politicians in Britain. Hell, the only question Tim Farron was asked for months was 'do you believe homosexuality is a sin?'. The Tories are going to be skewered on a daily basis as bigots by association.

It's a totally untenable relationship. Of course, they can't call another election because they'd get annihilated. Seeing the Tories in this much of a state is an absolute joy. It's as much fun as the selfcombustion of Labour through the first decade of this millennium. I love apolitical car-crash.

You are absolutely right on the farce of attempting to act as a neutral negotiator in Stormont whilst being propped up by one of the parties you're attempting to mediate between. Total nonsense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I've found the same in the Home Counties at least. The poorer vote Labour, the richer, and better educated, vote Tory.

Tribal voting with parties doesn't quite map onto right/left. Most academic studies on the issue do tend to support a correlation between education and progressively further left views, at least in the UK and US.

Good post.

Well I did say that I could believe it if May wasn't so stupid.

She ran a negative campaign that focused more on criticizing the other side rather than offering anything remotely positive, and those don't work. And she didn't help matters by attacking her own voting base with that Dementia Tax. Corbyn to his credit at least had the sense to energize his with things like free tuition.