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Ketara wrote: I suspect if it did happen, we'd end up doing something more the lines of Norway's relationship, where about 20% of EU law applies and we join the trade zone.
I wouldn't mind that trillion pound oil fund the Norwegians have stashed away.
As I've said to you once before, and let's forget Scottish independence here for a minute,
The UK government's mismanagement of North sea oil has to be the greatest act of criminality ever inflicted on the British public.
Has there ever been such a gross mismanagement of a valuable resource on this scale?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Ketara wrote: I suspect if it did happen, we'd end up doing something more the lines of Norway's relationship, where about 20% of EU law applies and we join the trade zone.
I wouldn't mind that trillion pound oil fund the Norwegians have stashed away.
As I've said to you once before, and let's forget Scottish independence here for a minute,
The UK government's mismanagement of North sea oil has to be the greatest act of criminality ever inflicted on the British public.
Has there ever been such a gross mismanagement of a valuable resource on this scale?
Yes. If we're going to talk about mismanagement of oil revenues, practically every Middle-Eastern, African, and South American country with oil trumps us by a mile. Adding the revenue into the standard expenditure of the day may be short termist, but it's hardly an act of 'criminality'. It just paid for health services, education, and so forth in a different way.
If not investing money for a long term basis was an act of criminality, I daresay we'd all be guilty.
Kilkrazy wrote: I think the opportunity for re-application to the EU will not occur for 10 or 20 years.
By then, a lot of things probably will have changed. The EU may have collapsed, or it may be going stronger than ever. The UK may have collapsed, or Brexit may have proved the golden wonderland of international trade that Leavers believe. The older part of the population, who voted more strongly to Leave will have died off, but the younger population may have forgotten the reasons why they preferred Remain. Everyone's ideas will be influenced by these factors.
However, assuming that the EU is going well, and the UK's population have become more pro-EU, another referendum could be held and if the popular vote is to join, it's fairly unlikely the EU would refuse on the basis of "those bloody Brits again!"
Valid points, but are the EU likely to forgive and forget in such a scenario? I don't think so.
If we ever did apply to re-join the EU, they'd probably lay down the law to us: no rebates, opt-outs, special treatment, adopting the Euro is mandatory etc etc
I doubt that the British public would buy it.
For better or for worse, there is no going back.
I imagine the way it will happen is this:
Have a vote of whether or not we want to join.
None of the parties will outline their plans of how to join.
Join will win by a small minority (because it could be so much more awesome!).
After several years of arsing about and political ineptitude we will join under a really bad deal with no subsequent referendum.
This join deal will be carried out even though once the electorate know the details of joining lots of them won't want it anymore.
GB continues to Hoakey Coakey in and out of the EU every 20 years, each time getting worse and worse deals both inside and out.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/28 15:00:15
Valid points, but are the EU likely to forgive and forget in such a scenario? I don't think so.
If we ever did apply to re-join the EU, they'd probably lay down the law to us: no rebates, opt-outs, special treatment, adopting the Euro is mandatory etc etc
I doubt that the British public would buy it.
For better or for worse, there is no going back.
The state of the £ may be equivalent or worse to the Euro by that point anyway given the current direction so joining might then be seen as a good thing to stabilise the currency...
A lot will depend on what the UK by that point has to offer the UK. If things have gone steadily south, the economy is ailing given an aging population with reduced output etc then there would be no need to offer any incentive to join as the UK populace is likely to readily accept it. In the unlikely event that we do not weaken then the EU may continue to offer incentives to join if overall that benefits the UK.
However I'm unsure whether the younger generation are so worried about losing things like the pound and so on compared to the current middle age/older generation as they are more open to exploring the world and not having to pay 3%-5% on exchange rate fees every time they use their credit card or change currency - joining the Euro might be seen as a good thing, with the £ all over the place! And it's not like a fair percentage of the new £ coins were mis-stamped anyway, we could do with a properly made coin! . The idea that the queens head should be on the £ is an aging one, and the younger generation I've met are less happy to have people simply born into power and privilege. The only benefit I see from a royal family is the tourism they bring in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/28 16:36:33
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
I'd make the case that people would come to see Buckingham Palace and whatnot without the Royal family, Versailles (probably spelling, but on my phone) seems to bring in enough people, but maybe that's because of guillotines and such.
Something something Cromwell was right, ban all fun and especially Christmas something something.
Kilkrazy wrote: I think the opportunity for re-application to the EU will not occur for 10 or 20 years.
By then, a lot of things probably will have changed. The EU may have collapsed, or it may be going stronger than ever. The UK may have collapsed, or Brexit may have proved the golden wonderland of international trade that Leavers believe. The older part of the population, who voted more strongly to Leave will have died off, but the younger population may have forgotten the reasons why they preferred Remain. Everyone's ideas will be influenced by these factors.
However, assuming that the EU is going well, and the UK's population have become more pro-EU, another referendum could be held and if the popular vote is to join, it's fairly unlikely the EU would refuse on the basis of "those bloody Brits again!"
Valid points, but are the EU likely to forgive and forget in such a scenario? I don't think so.
Kilkrazy wrote: I think the opportunity for re-application to the EU will not occur for 10 or 20 years.
By then, a lot of things probably will have changed. The EU may have collapsed, or it may be going stronger than ever. The UK may have collapsed, or Brexit may have proved the golden wonderland of international trade that Leavers believe. The older part of the population, who voted more strongly to Leave will have died off, but the younger population may have forgotten the reasons why they preferred Remain. Everyone's ideas will be influenced by these factors.
However, assuming that the EU is going well, and the UK's population have become more pro-EU, another referendum could be held and if the popular vote is to join, it's fairly unlikely the EU would refuse on the basis of "those bloody Brits again!"
Valid points, but are the EU likely to forgive and forget in such a scenario? I don't think so.
...
The EU will do what it thinks is best for the populace of the EU at the time of the question. If the UK economy crashes or declines and continues to grow its debt (or maintain it) then it may be wary of letting the UK back in until that issue is resolved. Everyone blames the EU for Greece's woes, but the reality is that Greece 'adjusted' their books to get into the EU and didn't then resolve the issues it had; metaphorically they spent massively on the credit card and now the EU is bailing them out. The EU is not likely to make that mistake again and will ensure any joining countries finances are in order first. To think that EU politicians will hold a 'grudge' for leaving is highly unlikely (and they have allready noted that the door is still open).
I think they will, so your point is rebutted.
Still at least we now know where the money promised for the NHS during the referendum has gone (or £315m of it)...to paying the extra interest because of the devaluation of the £. I wonder who will be benefiting from that expenditure....??? Definitely not the populace....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/28 18:56:17
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Ketara wrote: I suspect if it did happen, we'd end up doing something more the lines of Norway's relationship, where about 20% of EU law applies and we join the trade zone.
I wouldn't mind that trillion pound oil fund the Norwegians have stashed away.
As I've said to you once before, and let's forget Scottish independence here for a minute,
The UK government's mismanagement of North sea oil has to be the greatest act of criminality ever inflicted on the British public.
Has there ever been such a gross mismanagement of a valuable resource on this scale?
Yes. If we're going to talk about mismanagement of oil revenues, practically every Middle-Eastern, African, and South American country with oil trumps us by a mile. Adding the revenue into the standard expenditure of the day may be short termist, but it's hardly an act of 'criminality'. It just paid for health services, education, and so forth in a different way.
If not investing money for a long term basis was an act of criminality, I daresay we'd all be guilty.
Yeah, but as you're fond of pointing out, government money is not run like household budgets.
We know from the records that Mrs T wasn't using the oil money to build a hospital in Bolton, or fill in some pot holes in East Anglia.
No, that was money was used to fund tax cuts to win a General Election.
Kilkrazy wrote: I think the opportunity for re-application to the EU will not occur for 10 or 20 years.
By then, a lot of things probably will have changed. The EU may have collapsed, or it may be going stronger than ever. The UK may have collapsed, or Brexit may have proved the golden wonderland of international trade that Leavers believe. The older part of the population, who voted more strongly to Leave will have died off, but the younger population may have forgotten the reasons why they preferred Remain. Everyone's ideas will be influenced by these factors.
However, assuming that the EU is going well, and the UK's population have become more pro-EU, another referendum could be held and if the popular vote is to join, it's fairly unlikely the EU would refuse on the basis of "those bloody Brits again!"
Valid points, but are the EU likely to forgive and forget in such a scenario? I don't think so.
...
I think they will, so your point is rebutted.
Fair enough.
But I think there's more chance of me being appointed president of the European commision than the UK re-joining the EU.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/28 19:43:34
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
But I think there's more chance of me being appointed president of the European commision than the UK re-joining the EU.
I think it's almost certain we'll rejoin the EU within a 10-20 year time frame, without most of the consessions we currently enjoy. I'd put money on it.
Valid points, but are the EU likely to forgive and forget in such a scenario? I don't think so.
If we ever did apply to re-join the EU, they'd probably lay down the law to us: no rebates, opt-outs, special treatment, adopting the Euro is mandatory etc etc
So, exactly the same membership criteria as every other new nation who wants to join? That's no bad thing, if anything the EU pandered to the British too much. We aren't some special snowflake, we're the same as any other European nation, and it's about time we started bloody acting like it. The sooner this weird superiority complex gets beaten out of us, the better.
Brexit will be the ice cold splash in the face that many people need, unfortunately we stand to lose the hard fought special position we had secured ourselves to prove it.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
But I think there's more chance of me being appointed president of the European commision than the UK re-joining the EU.
I think it's almost certain we'll rejoin the EU within a 10-20 year time frame, without most of the consessions we currently enjoy. I'd put money on it.
If Britain re-joined the EU, and had to go back cap in hand, it would be a national humiliation on a scale not seen since the fall of Singapore or the lose of America.
I think the British people would sooner go down with the ship than ever consent to that.
Valid points, but are the EU likely to forgive and forget in such a scenario? I don't think so.
If we ever did apply to re-join the EU, they'd probably lay down the law to us: no rebates, opt-outs, special treatment, adopting the Euro is mandatory etc etc
So, exactly the same membership criteria as every other new nation who wants to join? That's no bad thing, if anything the EU pandered to the British too much. We aren't some special snowflake, we're the same as any other European nation, and it's about time we started bloody acting like it. The sooner this weird superiority complex gets beaten out of us, the better.
Brexit will be the ice cold splash in the face that many people need, unfortunately we stand to lose the hard fought special position we had secured ourselves to prove it.
You overlook the fact that Britain is not a normal European nation. It is a nuclear power and a permanent member of the UN security council. Only France matches us in this regard. France and the UK are Europe's foremost military powers. If the gak ever hit the fan in Europe e.g Russia, the EU would phone London so fast, they'd probably get whiplash.
Agreed. The man is a complete and utter buffoon. As bad as the British Empire was, at least people like Bojo could be exiled to some remote jungle outpost to count the paperclips or something.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/29 09:16:52
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
That buffoon was one of the principle proponents of Prexit.
When May appointed him Foreign Secretary I opined that her objective was to allow him to gather enough rope to hang himself, but I think now that she was short of talent, and now after the election disaster hasn't got the power within the party to get rid of him..
If we leave, I can't see us returning. Partially because I can't see the EU surviving the next decade and also because any position we would return on will be far far far worse off than we're currently on. Join the euro and Schengen? feth that.
Future War Cultist wrote: If we leave, I can't see us returning. Partially because I can't see the EU surviving the next decade and also because any position we would return on will be far far far worse off than we're currently on. Join the euro and Schengen? feth that.
What would be so bad about joining the euro? At the moment they're basically identical in worth anyway
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Future War Cultist wrote: If we leave, I can't see us returning. Partially because I can't see the EU surviving the next decade and also because any position we would return on will be far far far worse off than we're currently on. Join the euro and Schengen? feth that.
It's hardly surprising that people who want to get out of the EU don't want to join it and also think they won't want to rejoin in the future.
However, you've got to consider the possibility that joining again in 20 years may be a lot better than where the UK might be in 10 years time although it's worse than now. For a lot of Remainers, too, the Euro and Schengen are not deal-breakers anyway.
The main argument against Brexit has always been economic. (There is a secondary argument about international prestige and soft power.)
We know for certain there are a lot of downside risks to leaving and that the possible advantages are uncertain. E.g. Theresa May is in Japan now, and wants to talk about a post-Brexit trade deal. The Japanese government are far more concerned about limiting the coming damage from Brexit and then making a deal with the EU rather than with the post-EU-UK.
If that pattern repeats itself for the next 10 years, you are likely to see the UK sink further into the mire while the EU accelerates faster away from us.
Theresa May is set for disappointment on her visit to Tokyo this week after Japanese officials signalled they would not rush into free trade talks with Britain.
The British prime minister, who is hungry for new trade agreements to show the benefits of Brexit, is expected to discuss a UK-Japan version of the deal Tokyo agreed in principle with the EU last month when she meets her Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe.
But Japanese officials say their priority is completing the deal with Brussels, while negotiations with Britain will be difficult until there is clarity about its future relationship with the EU.
“I don’t think there will be substantial progress,” said one Japanese trade official. “We haven’t finished [free trade] negotiations with the EU, just agreed at the political level, and many issues still remain.”
The official said the UK side was being “quite aggressive” in pushing for a commitment on a future trade deal with the world’s fourth-largest economy. Mrs May will argue that such an arrangement would be mutually beneficial.
“We were big supporters of the EU-Japan trade deal and were engaged in negotiating it,” said one of Mrs May’s allies. “It would make sense for that deal to be replicated for us.”
But Yoshiji Nogami, president of the Japan Institute of International Affairs, and a former ambassador to the UK, said: “We can’t negotiate until Britain is out of the EU. I think what Mr Abe wants to hear from the prime minister is where she hopes to land on Brexit.”
Mrs May’s two-day visit, where she will be accompanied by a business delegation, comes as more Japanese companies begin discussions about moving their European headquarters from the UK to continental Europe.
The first wave of moves involved Japan’s financial institutions, most of which have opted to establish hubs in Frankfurt and Amsterdam.
But as negotiations between the UK and Europe take shape, other Japanese trading houses and industrial companies have opened talks with European governments about shifting their bases from the UK, say lawyers and other advisers.
“Now that the banks have worked out their strategies, there is a second wave of Japanese companies with European HQs in the UK currently looking carefully at their options elsewhere,” said one person familiar with the discussions of two major Japanese companies.
Japanese companies are encountering strong inducements from rival European countries. Hitachi Rail, which took a controlling stake in the Italian rail group Ansaldo STS in 2015, is under pressure from Rome to move its European headquarters from the UK to Italy, according to Italian officials.
Mrs May’s team believe that a transitional period between Brexit in 2019 and the entry into force of a new EU/UK trade deal would provide a period of up to three years in which to agree a new trade deal with Tokyo.
In private, Mr Abe will urge Mrs May to minimise disruption for Japanese companies in the UK. They are growing increasingly concerned about Britain’s plans to leave the EU customs union and single market.
“We need transition arrangements so business has time to plan,” said a senior official of Keidanren, Japan’s biggest business organisation. “We want both sides to show flexibility, but in particular, we’d encourage the UK to recalibrate its basic position.”
Many Japanese companies were encouraged to use the UK as a base to sell into the European single market by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. British ministers have been anxious to reassure them they are seeking to minimise the impact of Brexit.
One minister said Japanese companies in Britain were treated as “home companies” and were fully involved in discussions about Brexit; companies including Honda, Nissan and Toyota have signalled their commitment to the UK in recent months.
Nissan, which operates a large plant in Sunderland, was given personal assurances by Mrs May in October that the factory would not be affected by Brexit.
As out relentless journey towards project : reality check continues.
TBF to May there appears to be every chance that they'll have to rewrite the headline replacing " for disappointment" with "to arrive in the middle of nuclear war".
So we've got the potential for armegeddon in our favour.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Kilkrazy wrote: That buffoon was one of the principle proponents of Prexit.
When May appointed him Foreign Secretary I opined that her objective was to allow him to gather enough rope to hang himself, but I think now that she was short of talent, and now after the election disaster hasn't got the power within the party to get rid of him..
I have a harsher view. She views him as a threat to her leadership. Appointing him Foreign Secretary keeps him under tabs and under control. She's thrown him a bone to keep him placated. She's keeping her enemies close, putting her own personal political interests ahead of the national interest.
I think, TBF, it's also to placate the Redwood and other hardcore -- as opposed to hard Brexit -- anti-EU elements in her party, but we're splitting the difference here really.
Bosses of the UK's 100 biggest listed firms earned £4.5m on average last year, and typically took home 129 times more than the average employee at those firms.
The Conservatives had promised in their manifesto that executive pay should be approved by an annual vote of shareholders.
However, the new measures instead propose that those public companies who face a shareholder revolt on pay will be named on a register overseen by the Investment Association.
Hail the new chief, remarkably similar to the old chief.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
But I think there's more chance of me being appointed president of the European commision than the UK re-joining the EU.
I think it's almost certain we'll rejoin the EU within a 10-20 year time frame, without most of the consessions we currently enjoy. I'd put money on it.
If Britain re-joined the EU, and had to go back cap in hand, it would be a national humiliation on a scale not seen since the fall of Singapore or the lose of America.
I think the British people would sooner go down with the ship than ever consent to that.
It's that pointless pig headedness that got us into this mess in the first place.
Hopefully enough of us will be willing to eat humble pay and admit our predecessors gakked us over to rejoin. If things go as badly as they look like they might, then we'll be willing to rejoin the EU at any cost.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41026575 Frankfurt is winning the battle for Brexit spoils (Apologies if this was already posted, I didnt see it when briefly browsing the thread).
Not sure what this says about the UK, but it seems that Germany is certainly clawing its way back to the world preeminence it dreamed of a century ago at the UK's expense, albeit off the battlefield.
It'll be interesting to see where all the EU stuff formerly based in the UK will end up and where the new paradigm shifts to and who the winners and losers will be. It may be radically different than anyone thought, it may be exactlt what everyone thought. It certainly looks like Germany is going to reap some rewards however.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
You overlook the fact that Britain is not a normal European nation. It is a nuclear power and a permanent member of the UN security council. Only France matches us in this regard. France and the UK are Europe's foremost military powers. If the gak ever hit the fan in Europe e.g Russia, the EU would phone London so fast, they'd probably get whiplash.
That'll be why Merkel has said that Europe can't rely on us and has to take measures to assure self reliance.
Given how little threat we made to the Russian fleet the other month, I'm not sure what we have to offer Europe beyond a couple if empty aircraft carriers and a couple of nuclear subs that can't fire in the correct direction.
If the gak ever hit the fan in Europe e.g Russia, the EU would phone London so fast, they'd probably get whiplash.
That might well be due to that whole NATO thing as opposed to the EU.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Theresa May is set for disappointment on her visit to Tokyo this week after Japanese officials signalled they would not rush into free trade talks with Britain.
The British prime minister, who is hungry for new trade agreements to show the benefits of Brexit, is expected to discuss a UK-Japan version of the deal Tokyo agreed in principle with the EU last month when she meets her Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe.
But Japanese officials say their priority is completing the deal with Brussels, while negotiations with Britain will be difficult until there is clarity about its future relationship with the EU.
“I don’t think there will be substantial progress,” said one Japanese trade official. “We haven’t finished [free trade] negotiations with the EU, just agreed at the political level, and many issues still remain.”
The official said the UK side was being “quite aggressive” in pushing for a commitment on a future trade deal with the world’s fourth-largest economy. Mrs May will argue that such an arrangement would be mutually beneficial.
“We were big supporters of the EU-Japan trade deal and were engaged in negotiating it,” said one of Mrs May’s allies. “It would make sense for that deal to be replicated for us.”
But Yoshiji Nogami, president of the Japan Institute of International Affairs, and a former ambassador to the UK, said: “We can’t negotiate until Britain is out of the EU. I think what Mr Abe wants to hear from the prime minister is where she hopes to land on Brexit.”
Mrs May’s two-day visit, where she will be accompanied by a business delegation, comes as more Japanese companies begin discussions about moving their European headquarters from the UK to continental Europe.
The first wave of moves involved Japan’s financial institutions, most of which have opted to establish hubs in Frankfurt and Amsterdam.
But as negotiations between the UK and Europe take shape, other Japanese trading houses and industrial companies have opened talks with European governments about shifting their bases from the UK, say lawyers and other advisers.
“Now that the banks have worked out their strategies, there is a second wave of Japanese companies with European HQs in the UK currently looking carefully at their options elsewhere,” said one person familiar with the discussions of two major Japanese companies.
Japanese companies are encountering strong inducements from rival European countries. Hitachi Rail, which took a controlling stake in the Italian rail group Ansaldo STS in 2015, is under pressure from Rome to move its European headquarters from the UK to Italy, according to Italian officials.
Mrs May’s team believe that a transitional period between Brexit in 2019 and the entry into force of a new EU/UK trade deal would provide a period of up to three years in which to agree a new trade deal with Tokyo.
In private, Mr Abe will urge Mrs May to minimise disruption for Japanese companies in the UK. They are growing increasingly concerned about Britain’s plans to leave the EU customs union and single market.
“We need transition arrangements so business has time to plan,” said a senior official of Keidanren, Japan’s biggest business organisation. “We want both sides to show flexibility, but in particular, we’d encourage the UK to recalibrate its basic position.”
Many Japanese companies were encouraged to use the UK as a base to sell into the European single market by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. British ministers have been anxious to reassure them they are seeking to minimise the impact of Brexit.
One minister said Japanese companies in Britain were treated as “home companies” and were fully involved in discussions about Brexit; companies including Honda, Nissan and Toyota have signalled their commitment to the UK in recent months.
Nissan, which operates a large plant in Sunderland, was given personal assurances by Mrs May in October that the factory would not be affected by Brexit.
As out relentless journey towards project : reality check continues.
TBF to May there appears to be every chance that they'll have to rewrite the headline replacing " for disappointment" with "to arrive in the middle of nuclear war".
So we've got the potential for armegeddon in our favour.
The way things are going with North Korea, there may not be a Japan left to trade with.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Also, to be blunt about it, I imagine that the UK's most important part to play in such a conflict would be as a base for US forces should such come to pass.
More to the point, Russia does not have the means to launch a protracted conventional ground war deep into Europe, and any such conflict would go nuclear...very quickly, in which case all of this would be moot.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Theresa May is set for disappointment on her visit to Tokyo this week after Japanese officials signalled they would not rush into free trade talks with Britain.
The British prime minister, who is hungry for new trade agreements to show the benefits of Brexit, is expected to discuss a UK-Japan version of the deal Tokyo agreed in principle with the EU last month when she meets her Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe.
But Japanese officials say their priority is completing the deal with Brussels, while negotiations with Britain will be difficult until there is clarity about its future relationship with the EU.
“I don’t think there will be substantial progress,” said one Japanese trade official. “We haven’t finished [free trade] negotiations with the EU, just agreed at the political level, and many issues still remain.”
The official said the UK side was being “quite aggressive” in pushing for a commitment on a future trade deal with the world’s fourth-largest economy. Mrs May will argue that such an arrangement would be mutually beneficial.
“We were big supporters of the EU-Japan trade deal and were engaged in negotiating it,” said one of Mrs May’s allies. “It would make sense for that deal to be replicated for us.”
But Yoshiji Nogami, president of the Japan Institute of International Affairs, and a former ambassador to the UK, said: “We can’t negotiate until Britain is out of the EU. I think what Mr Abe wants to hear from the prime minister is where she hopes to land on Brexit.”
Mrs May’s two-day visit, where she will be accompanied by a business delegation, comes as more Japanese companies begin discussions about moving their European headquarters from the UK to continental Europe.
The first wave of moves involved Japan’s financial institutions, most of which have opted to establish hubs in Frankfurt and Amsterdam.
But as negotiations between the UK and Europe take shape, other Japanese trading houses and industrial companies have opened talks with European governments about shifting their bases from the UK, say lawyers and other advisers.
“Now that the banks have worked out their strategies, there is a second wave of Japanese companies with European HQs in the UK currently looking carefully at their options elsewhere,” said one person familiar with the discussions of two major Japanese companies.
Japanese companies are encountering strong inducements from rival European countries. Hitachi Rail, which took a controlling stake in the Italian rail group Ansaldo STS in 2015, is under pressure from Rome to move its European headquarters from the UK to Italy, according to Italian officials.
Mrs May’s team believe that a transitional period between Brexit in 2019 and the entry into force of a new EU/UK trade deal would provide a period of up to three years in which to agree a new trade deal with Tokyo.
In private, Mr Abe will urge Mrs May to minimise disruption for Japanese companies in the UK. They are growing increasingly concerned about Britain’s plans to leave the EU customs union and single market.
“We need transition arrangements so business has time to plan,” said a senior official of Keidanren, Japan’s biggest business organisation. “We want both sides to show flexibility, but in particular, we’d encourage the UK to recalibrate its basic position.”
Many Japanese companies were encouraged to use the UK as a base to sell into the European single market by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. British ministers have been anxious to reassure them they are seeking to minimise the impact of Brexit.
One minister said Japanese companies in Britain were treated as “home companies” and were fully involved in discussions about Brexit; companies including Honda, Nissan and Toyota have signalled their commitment to the UK in recent months.
Nissan, which operates a large plant in Sunderland, was given personal assurances by Mrs May in October that the factory would not be affected by Brexit.
As out relentless journey towards project : reality check continues.
TBF to May there appears to be every chance that they'll have to rewrite the headline replacing " for disappointment" with "to arrive in the middle of nuclear war".
So we've got the potential for armegeddon in our favour.
The way things are going with North Korea, there may not be a Japan left to trade with.
Vaktathi wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41026575
Frankfurt is winning the battle for Brexit spoils (Apologies if this was already posted, I didnt see it when briefly browsing the thread).
Not sure what this says about the UK, but it seems that Germany is certainly clawing its way back to the world preeminence it dreamed of a century ago at the UK's expense, albeit off the battlefield.
It'll be interesting to see where all the EU stuff formerly based in the UK will end up and where the new paradigm shifts to and who the winners and losers will be. It may be radically different than anyone thought, it may be exactlt what everyone thought. It certainly looks like Germany is going to reap some rewards however.
On the plus side, your president has promised us some magic beans, so that's good enough for me. I'll sleep easy at nights
Theresa May is set for disappointment on her visit to Tokyo this week after Japanese officials signalled they would not rush into free trade talks with Britain.
The British prime minister, who is hungry for new trade agreements to show the benefits of Brexit, is expected to discuss a UK-Japan version of the deal Tokyo agreed in principle with the EU last month when she meets her Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe.
But Japanese officials say their priority is completing the deal with Brussels, while negotiations with Britain will be difficult until there is clarity about its future relationship with the EU.
“I don’t think there will be substantial progress,” said one Japanese trade official. “We haven’t finished [free trade] negotiations with the EU, just agreed at the political level, and many issues still remain.”
The official said the UK side was being “quite aggressive” in pushing for a commitment on a future trade deal with the world’s fourth-largest economy. Mrs May will argue that such an arrangement would be mutually beneficial.
“We were big supporters of the EU-Japan trade deal and were engaged in negotiating it,” said one of Mrs May’s allies. “It would make sense for that deal to be replicated for us.”
But Yoshiji Nogami, president of the Japan Institute of International Affairs, and a former ambassador to the UK, said: “We can’t negotiate until Britain is out of the EU. I think what Mr Abe wants to hear from the prime minister is where she hopes to land on Brexit.”
Mrs May’s two-day visit, where she will be accompanied by a business delegation, comes as more Japanese companies begin discussions about moving their European headquarters from the UK to continental Europe.
The first wave of moves involved Japan’s financial institutions, most of which have opted to establish hubs in Frankfurt and Amsterdam.
But as negotiations between the UK and Europe take shape, other Japanese trading houses and industrial companies have opened talks with European governments about shifting their bases from the UK, say lawyers and other advisers.
“Now that the banks have worked out their strategies, there is a second wave of Japanese companies with European HQs in the UK currently looking carefully at their options elsewhere,” said one person familiar with the discussions of two major Japanese companies.
Japanese companies are encountering strong inducements from rival European countries. Hitachi Rail, which took a controlling stake in the Italian rail group Ansaldo STS in 2015, is under pressure from Rome to move its European headquarters from the UK to Italy, according to Italian officials.
Mrs May’s team believe that a transitional period between Brexit in 2019 and the entry into force of a new EU/UK trade deal would provide a period of up to three years in which to agree a new trade deal with Tokyo.
In private, Mr Abe will urge Mrs May to minimise disruption for Japanese companies in the UK. They are growing increasingly concerned about Britain’s plans to leave the EU customs union and single market.
“We need transition arrangements so business has time to plan,” said a senior official of Keidanren, Japan’s biggest business organisation. “We want both sides to show flexibility, but in particular, we’d encourage the UK to recalibrate its basic position.”
Many Japanese companies were encouraged to use the UK as a base to sell into the European single market by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s. British ministers have been anxious to reassure them they are seeking to minimise the impact of Brexit.
One minister said Japanese companies in Britain were treated as “home companies” and were fully involved in discussions about Brexit; companies including Honda, Nissan and Toyota have signalled their commitment to the UK in recent months.
Nissan, which operates a large plant in Sunderland, was given personal assurances by Mrs May in October that the factory would not be affected by Brexit.
As out relentless journey towards project : reality check continues.
TBF to May there appears to be every chance that they'll have to rewrite the headline replacing " for disappointment" with "to arrive in the middle of nuclear war".
So we've got the potential for armegeddon in our favour.
The way things are going with North Korea, there may not be a Japan left to trade with.
I thought they backed down last week?
Have you not seen the news? NK launched another missle, and this time it flew over Japan!
You overlook the fact that Britain is not a normal European nation. It is a nuclear power and a permanent member of the UN security council. Only France matches us in this regard. France and the UK are Europe's foremost military powers. If the gak ever hit the fan in Europe e.g Russia, the EU would phone London so fast, they'd probably get whiplash.
That'll be why Merkel has said that Europe can't rely on us and has to take measures to assure self reliance.
Given how little threat we made to the Russian fleet the other month, I'm not sure what we have to offer Europe beyond a couple if empty aircraft carriers and a couple of nuclear subs that can't fire in the correct direction.
Forget carriers. A potential conflict with Russia would be won or lost on the ground. Britain could probably have 50,000 troops ready to go in 48hrs. Germany could match the numbers, but have little combat experience compared to Britain. It would be Britain and France doing the heavy lifting until the Americans rode to the resuce.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/29 17:33:44
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
. The idea that the queens head should be on the £ is an aging one, and the younger generation I've met are less happy to have people simply born into power and privilege. The only benefit I see from a royal family is the tourism they bring in.
