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 Da krimson barun wrote:
Knockage: he DUP signed up for acht na Gaelige in the Saint Andrews agreement. If they don't honour their commitments, SF has no reason to enter government. Gay marriage wouldn't have passed due to the petition of concern.

McElduff has a history of putting things on his head for a laugh. He has no history of sectarianism. It's possible he may not have an encyclopediac knowledge of every shooting carried out in the Six Counties. If the IRA even carried out the massacre is disputable. The survivors heard an English accent.

Be that as it may, you have neglected to mention the Reavey-O'dowd killings by loyalists the previous night. Like Barry I'm not an encyclopedia: eight dead as I recall? This sort of action wasn't repeated after kingsmills. When Ian Paisley Snr falsely named one of the Reavey brothers as an IRA gunman who carried out kingsmills, I'm sure you called for his resignation.

Did you actually say McElduff has no history of sectarianism??? Seriously is the same guy we are talking about?? The same guy who was given caught in 1992 for helping in the false imprisonment of a Protestant whom the IRA suspected of being an informer. The victim was interrogated by three masked IRA men in Sinn Féin's Dungannon offices? That guy or maybe it was this charming fella?

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Reds8n

Well, If we're going to talk about Irish politics, let's focus on the positives, and something I've long admired, and that is the Irish rugby team, or Ireland.

Barely a trace of politics whatsoever. Anybody good enough can play for them, be they Republic or Northern Ireland, the shamrock is the team symbol, so nobody gets upset, the official Irish rugby flag has each of the 4 historic regions on it, and they have their own anthem, so again, nobody gets upset.

So, to see Ulstermen in the same side as players from Leinster, Munster, or Connacht, as was the case yesterday against France, is always a good thing to see.

So good on you Ireland for getting that right for more than 100 years.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well, If we're going to talk about Irish politics, let's focus on the positives, and something I've long admired, and that is the Irish rugby team, or Ireland.

Barely a trace of politics whatsoever. Anybody good enough can play for them, be they Republic or Northern Ireland, the shamrock is the team symbol, so nobody gets upset, the official Irish rugby flag has each of the 4 historic regions on it, and they have their own anthem, so again, nobody gets upset.

So, to see Ulstermen in the same side as players from Leinster, Munster, or Connacht, as was the case yesterday against France, is always a good thing to see.

So good on you Ireland for getting that right for more than 100 years.

Your right. Irish rugby has stayed largely away from any political posturing over the years. Several reasons for that. Firstly it’s a sport mostly played by the middle classes and above mostly in grammar schools. Middle and upper classes in NI avoid open politics like the plague. It’s fine behind closed doors but never outside or in front of the children. Secondly rugby in Northern Ireland is almost exclusively played in state schools which are mostly Protestant as Catholics have kept their own separate education system. The separate Catholic schools plays Gaelic sports they do play soccer but I’m not aware of any that play rugby.
So yes you are right it is a good example but sadly it has worked so well because the sport has already self segregated itself to a large degree before a foot is put on the pitch.

 Knockagh wrote:
Scared of Irishness but yet fund Irish Language to the tune of £34 million a year in a country of 1.8 million people? We have Irish Language schools, evening classes, radio programs. Tell me what exactly more do you want? Roadsigns? Compulsory Irish for civil servants? Flesh out your plans because I and all unionists actually haven’t a clue what more can be thrown at the Irish Language.

The Republic of Ireland only got gay marriage last year and its only a few years in GB. Most countries are new to this. Do Northern Ireland have to be first or else it’s no good? The DUP didn’t get enough seats to block it in the last assembly election so if the provos hadn’t brought government down it would have gone through.

Although Gerry’ Adams idea of sexual equality seems rather broad since he protected active peadophiles and rapists on several occasions including his own father and brother whom he continued to allow access to children despite knowing and hiding their peadophiliia. That must be some more of that respect I keep reading about.

Road signs are wanted they have them all over the rest of the island so why not here? Irish didn't just stop at the border, to have the ability to have Irish used in affairs relating to public bodies and to have funding given to Gaeltacht areas in the country and provide opportunities for children form deprived backgrounds to go to Donegal in the summer months to help them learn. The DUP have shown an aversion to the Irish language in the with the removal of funding and comments insulting the language itself and the way they act towards the GAA is atrocious favouring money being sent to the OO over it for one simple reason and that's religion. The Irish language and the Gaelic games are two central elements to Irish culture and the DUP have shown many times a hatred for both.

It'll be three years in May since the south voted in gay marriage in their referendum, it's not about who did it first its the continued resistance against it by the DUP due to pure homophobia and ignorance. The DUP only lost their seats due to Sinn Fein collapsing the government.

What McElduff did in '92 wasn't sectarian though? If they'd done what they did due to him being a Protestant then it would be but it was because he was a suspected informer, going by that logic loads of crimes are sectarian, just because they happened to be committed against someone of a different religion.

A fair few Catholics schools do actually play rugby btw, but just not too as high a level.

 Knockagh wrote:

 Da krimson barun wrote:
Knockage: he DUP signed up for acht na Gaelige in the Saint Andrews agreement. If they don't honour their commitments, SF has no reason to enter government. Gay marriage wouldn't have passed due to the petition of concern.

McElduff has a history of putting things on his head for a laugh. He has no history of sectarianism. It's possible he may not have an encyclopediac knowledge of every shooting carried out in the Six Counties. If the IRA even carried out the massacre is disputable. The survivors heard an English accent.

Be that as it may, you have neglected to mention the Reavey-O'dowd killings by loyalists the previous night. Like Barry I'm not an encyclopedia: eight dead as I recall? This sort of action wasn't repeated after kingsmills. When Ian Paisley Snr falsely named one of the Reavey brothers as an IRA gunman who carried out kingsmills, I'm sure you called for his resignation.

Did you actually say McElduff has no history of sectarianism??? Seriously is the same guy we are talking about?? The same guy who was given caught in 1992 for helping in the false imprisonment of a Protestant whom the IRA suspected of being an informer. The victim was interrogated by three masked IRA men in Sinn Féin's Dungannon offices? That guy or maybe it was this charming fella?

Perhaps he was aiding the false imprisonment of an informer who happened to be Protestant and not a Protestant who happened to be an informer? Ohhh look an Irish Republican at an Irish Republican event, what a surprise. Next you'll be accusing Elizabeth Sax-Coburg and Gotha of being sectarian for attending a British Army commemeration. I see you decided to brush over Ian's little comments and the Reavey-O'Dowd murders...the ones carried out by members of the SPG. That were followed up the next night by a man with an English accent leading a group of "IRA" gunmen. Funny that...

And there’s what your up against folks. Irish republicans comparing rememberance Sunday events with commenerating repugnant little terrorists. The Queen compared to Gerry Adams.
It really doesn’t matter who Barry was kidnapping, the fact is he was kidnapping which is a pretty awful crime by a pretty awful person.
And we have no government over road signs, couldn’t make it up. No budget, hospitals going to pot, but it’s ok because the provos are gonna get Irish Road signs. Which will be ripped down overnight in unionist areas. But more worryingly will be used to mark your territory and mine. Will cause more visible division. But then that’s obviously what you want. Because the Irish Language already has everything else and we are ok with that.

 Knockagh wrote:
And there’s what your up against folks. Irish republicans comparing rememberance Sunday events with commenerating repugnant little terrorists. The Queen compared to Gerry Adams.
It really doesn’t matter who Barry was kidnapping, the fact is he was kidnapping which is a pretty awful crime by a pretty awful person.
And we have no government over road signs, couldn’t make it up. No budget, hospitals going to pot, but it’s ok because the provos are gonna get Irish Road signs. Which will be ripped down overnight in unionist areas. But more worryingly will be used to mark your territory and mine. Will cause more visible division. But then that’s obviously what you want. Because the Irish Language already has everything else and we are ok with that.

Remembering the World Wars? Sure those are men who deserve respect, but men who murdered with impunity on the streets of Ireland I'd say they're just as much terrorists as the IRA ever were and many of the commemerations over here have been hijacked by the UDA and UVF.

So you're admitting Barry didn't commit a sectarian act then?

The countries already divided everywhere around me has the word London scored out before Derry, all the loyalist areas are flying union flags and Para flags you can guess what sort of areas you're in pretty easily. Sure if the country is in that bad a state the OO will stop costing the country massive amounts of money every year? Or Twaddell avenue costing millions? RHI costing half a billion too surely the NHS would have benefited from that.

Once again knockage you skip over the murdered Reaveys O'Dowds. Mrs Windsor when she attends events to commemerate never clarified that the black and tans, the auxies, the men who shoved broken glass into people's rears in Malaya, or the Paras who murdered her civilians on bloody Sunday are exceptions. You also skipped over the fact that the DUP committed to the Act. All they need to do is keep their word and also agree to introduce Gay marriage and equality. Note that the DUP will take an act if it's also Ulster-Scots, so it's not a matter of cost, it's a matter of votes.

 Steve steveson wrote:
The only thing that would reduce it now is the fact that the US has stopped having such a romantic view of terror since 9/11 so hopefully they at least won’t have the funds if Brexit does damage the peace process.

I wouldn't count on that. Peter King, House Homeland Security Committee member and Chairman of the Sub-Committee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence is well known for his financial support of Irish Terrorists, arms smuggling into Ulster, and hatred for Muslim terrorists (one of these things is not like the others). Which, despite laws against terrorism, is not a crime, as the IRA is not considered a terrorist group under US law (no, seriously, stop laughing). RIRA is, but that's it. The logic behind this is that your organization has to specifically target Americans before you get on the 'naughty list' IRA has never done this (ie bombed someplace that was obviously American) but they have funded the campaigns of men like Mr King, and the law makes no allowance for US allies. Which is why so many organizations on the list have Arab or Islamic themes in their names.

Barry McElduff is a convicted terrorist and a sectarian thug who I’m sure has committed countless foul acts beside the one we know about.

So your argument on Irish street signs is, “we are divided already so we may as well make it worse and go with it.”
Sorry that’s not for me that’s a pathetic future your selling.

I know of a few provos in County Tyrone who have done very well from RHI, and I think you shouldn’t pre judge anything until the public inquiry is over.

 Knockagh wrote:
The Queen compared to Gerry Adams.

This I really want to post something about, but the content would be so horrific that the mods would clamp down and possibly lock thee thread. Let's instead say that it's deeply unfair to Gerry Adams to compare him to the Queen.

"We have no proof he did anything sectarian but he might have!"
If a line of Irish beneath a place name that's in anglicized Irish anyway(Derry/Doire)is such a problem, that's a problems with the PUL community,not Gaeilge.

There's a list of RHI recipients available to the public:would you like to cite a few?

That's an interesting statement about a little old lady who as far as I know, has never done anything noteworthy but her extended and committed service to her nation.

 Ketara wrote:
That's an interesting statement about a little old lady who as far as I know, has never done anything noteworthy but her extended and committed service to her nation.

To be fair, a number of students I have spoken to from some former UK colonies blame her for the role she played in the executions of freedom fighters in decolonization wars. As far as I could find this usually meant not granting those people a stay of execution. You could argue about her responsibility until the cows come home, but it still causes resentment, Cyprus being one of the more obvious former colonies.

 Ketara wrote:
That's an interesting statement about a little old lady who as far as I know, has never done anything noteworthy but her extended and committed service to her nation.

Exactly. Anything is justifiable so long as it's for her nation. Show me one example of Elizabeth II of the house of Sax-Coburg and Gotha ever condemning an action committed in the name of the crown by her nations armed forces. Because Gerry condemned many IRA actions in the 90's, still condemns the dissidents and has helped victims such as the family of Brian Stack. Lizzie has never helped any of the Dublin-Monaghan families to gain closure.

 Da krimson barun wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
That's an interesting statement about a little old lady who as far as I know, has never done anything noteworthy but her extended and committed service to her nation.

Exactly. Anything is justifiable so long as it's for her nation. Show me one example of Elizabeth II of the house of Sax-Coburg and Gotha ever condemning an action committed in the name of the crown by her nations armed forces. Because Gerry condemned many IRA actions in the 90's, still condemns the dissidents and has helped victims such as the family of Brian Stack. Lizzie has never helped any of the Dublin-Monaghan families to gain closure.

It's interesting to see such fervent Royalists are still about; that is to say, people who seem to earnestly believe that the Royal Family should actually be interfering in politics and assuming responsibility for the decisions made by the Government of the day. I wouldn't have thought that the Divine Right of Kings was still so popular.

Going to the remembrance day commemerations and not making any effort to distance herself from stuff like the Ballymurphy massacre is political. It's a statement that shooting innocent people is alright so long as it's for the crown.
It is her responsibility when the government she allows to form commits murder.

 Da krimson barun wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
That's an interesting statement about a little old lady who as far as I know, has never done anything noteworthy but her extended and committed service to her nation.

Exactly. Anything is justifiable so long as it's for her nation. Show me one example of Elizabeth II of the house of Sax-Coburg and Gotha ever condemning an action committed in the name of the crown by her nations armed forces. Because Gerry condemned many IRA actions in the 90's, still condemns the dissidents and has helped victims such as the family of Brian Stack. Lizzie has never helped any of the Dublin-Monaghan families to gain closure.

You really live in lala land Brian Stacks family would most definitely not say Gerry Adams helped their family in any way and to make out that he did is simply untrue.

Here it is in his own words

https://m.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/archive-video-austin-stack-spoke-to-the-media-after-confronting-gerry-adams-35278727.html

The only people we know who Gerry has helped are paedophiles, rapists and murderers.

You clearly don’t understand what the powers and responsibilities of the royal family are. Her duties are especially ceremonial. What exactly do you think she does in forming a government?

 Steve steveson wrote:
What exactly do you think she does in forming a government?

She has a secret stash of robots. If an entering PM turns up and she doesn't like them she puts them in the tower of London, gets a robot out and sends them to do her bidding....why do you think May is so...robotic?

The Queen needs to do a product recall on the Maybot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
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Agricultural labour recruitment down 35% since Brexit referendum.

 Knockagh wrote:
Barry McElduff is a convicted terrorist and a sectarian thug who I’m sure has committed countless foul acts beside the one we know about.

So your argument on Irish street signs is, “we are divided already so we may as well make it worse and go with it.”
Sorry that’s not for me that’s a pathetic future your selling.

I know of a few provos in County Tyrone who have done very well from RHI, and I think you shouldn’t pre judge anything until the public inquiry is over.

Again any evidence for the sectarian part?

Surely if to reducing divisions was the reason the DUP wouldn't march around attend events where Irish flags are burnt. It's not for financial reasons as they're willing to do it if Ulster Scots get brought into it. So the only reason I can think of is that they don't want to have anything to do with anything Irish. It also says a lot that anything to do with something that is a big part of their heritage too, threatens them that much.

Why does it matter if some ex-provos benefited from RHI? The scheme was a disaster costing us half a billion and she was in charge at the time.

As Knockagh once pointed out to me the UDR received a special award and a standing ovation from the Queen an organisation who approximately 15% of it's members were linked with loyalist paramilitaries. Surely if she can praise the armed forces she can speak out against some of their actions too or at least offer comfort to the families of those who suffered so greatly at their hands.

 Da krimson barun wrote:
Going to the remembrance day commemerations and not making any effort to distance herself from stuff like the Ballymurphy massacre is political. It's a statement that shooting innocent people is alright so long as it's for the crown.
It is her responsibility when the government she allows to form commits murder.

I don't think you understand the basis of the British constitution.

 Knockagh wrote:

 Da krimson barun wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
That's an interesting statement about a little old lady who as far as I know, has never done anything noteworthy but her extended and committed service to her nation.

Exactly. Anything is justifiable so long as it's for her nation. Show me one example of Elizabeth II of the house of Sax-Coburg and Gotha ever condemning an action committed in the name of the crown by her nations armed forces. Because Gerry condemned many IRA actions in the 90's, still condemns the dissidents and has helped victims such as the family of Brian Stack. Lizzie has never helped any of the Dublin-Monaghan families to gain closure.

You really live in lala land Brian Stacks family would most definitely not say Gerry Adams helped their family in any way and to make out that he did is simply untrue.

Here it is in his own words

https://m.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/archive-video-austin-stack-spoke-to-the-media-after-confronting-gerry-adams-35278727.html

The only people we know who Gerry has helped are paedophiles, rapists and murderers.

Gerry brought the Stacks to meet with a PIRA representative. He didn't have to. If he gave any names away, everyone would have turned against him and SF would implode. I assure you, Ian Paisley never brought any UVF victims family to meet with them. What exactly was he supposed to do: start pointing fingers and naming names? He did what was within his power to help. Ian had his own sordid history. Kincora, the Lebanon guns...Oh and do you still have no comment on the Reavy-O'Dowd killings?

Ketara: Mayhaps I misunderstood Theresa Mayhem when she said she had just been to see Mrs.Windsor and said she had asked to form a goverment? She can dissolve parliament, shes Commander in chief, she can block bills...and what would be done about it? It's not like she'd be voted out of office!

 Kilkrazy wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cornwall-42932862/brits-try-eu-migrants-vegetable-picking-jobs-in-cornwall

Agricultural labour recruitment down 35% since Brexit referendum.

The disappointing thing about this article is the way the title portrays them as EU migrant jobs which they are not. There are plenty of migrants that do highly skilled jobs and these sort of articles reinforce the belief that they are only here to do the menial jobs. Instead they could have titled it "Can the local employment market recruit enough people to support an agricultural economy"

 Ketara wrote:
That's an interesting statement about a little old lady who as far as I know, has never done anything noteworthy but her extended and committed service to her nation.

Evelyn Baring was made first Baron Howick and inducted into the Order of the Garter.

I have no terms for the man that might be used in polite company, to give you some idea. The United Kingdom has admitted to the fact that he placed upwards of 100,000 people in camps where they were systematically tortured, raped, starved, and murdered.

In one particular incident, 11 people were selected at random, and beaten to death in front of the other prisoners to make a point. Men were tortured by being hung from the ceiling by their testicles, which were slowly crushed between two metal bars while they were beaten with a third.


The only defense the British Government has for these actions is to claim that since Kenya became independent of the UK, that everything the English colonial governor did is the responsibility of the Kenyan government now. While they admit that all these acts took place, they flatly refuse to issue an apology.

Blimey guv. That was in the 1950's, the man was knighted in '72 and died in '73. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the chap in question withhold evidence even from Parliament on the matter? Somehow I doubt given that that the Queen knew or gave the nod to what happened. Bit harsh to hold it against old Brenda; you might as well lay every evil ever undertaken by a British citizen at the throne of monarchy going down that route of reasoning.

The only thing that will come of a continued discussion about Northern Irish sectarianism is a locked thread.

That would be a shame, but topical, as Northern Irish politics regularly grinds things to an angry, divisive, premature and embittered halt.

So if you chaps wouldnt mind starting a thread elsewhere, maybe along the lines of, "it's all those other bastards fault", that'd be grand.


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It's fun to watch Tories fighting. There's no better target for their bitter recriminations than a fellow Conservative. It gets them every single time. It's one of the only things I like about them.

 r_squared wrote:

It's fun to watch Tories fighting. There's no better target for their bitter recriminations than a fellow Conservative. It gets them every single time. It's one of the only things I like about them.

True dat. I guess the "opposition" party's must think so well, as they all seem happy to sit back and leave them to it.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 r_squared wrote:

It's fun to watch Tories fighting. There's no better target for their bitter recriminations than a fellow Conservative. It gets them every single time. It's one of the only things I like about them.

True dat. I guess the "opposition" party's must think so well, as they all seem happy to sit back and leave them to it.

They're too busy consolidating the hold of the Second Coming on the party to be worrying about silly things like that.