UK & EU Politics Thread

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**BaronIveagh**

Not sure if this got brought up yet.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43774200

**r_squared**

There is no appetite for a second referendum even amongst remainers like myself.

Positions are entrenched, and if facts and figures didn't work last time they're certainly not going to work again in the future.

At the end of the day the Govt wanted direction from the people and they got it. It is now upto them to implement it, or pull out and face the consequences. I'm confident that in a few years time we'll be lobbying to get back in the EU anyway.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Obviously, this is not the thread for talking about the Syrian Civil War,

but it is the thread to discuss possible Russian retaliation against the UK in the form of cyber-warfare, so what are we looking at?

NHS IT systems going up in smoke again? Power stations getting shut down?

Royal Mail vans getting redirected to the wrong depots? Hackers targetting our MPs and spreading damaging material about their private lives?

This Syrian debacle could have opened up a can of worms that targets ordinary people like us.

I hope I don't need a GP appointment in the next month. Their patient records will probably be scrubbed by Russian hackers!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

r_squared wrote:
There is no appetite for a second referendum even amongst remainers like myself.

Positions are entrenched, and if facts and figures didn't work last time they're certainly not going to work again in the future.

At the end of the day the Govt wanted direction from the people and they got it. It is now upto them to implement it, or pull out and face the consequences. I'm confident that in a few years time we'll be lobbying to get back in the EU anyway.

I disagree.

If Leave had a significant margin? OK. I could understand that.

But they didn't. 4% up, when just 2/3rds of the eligible population bothered to vote in the first place. Now, strike out the protest votes, factor in far more being known about what Brexit actually might entail, and strip out the lies and damned lies spewed up by Farage and Co....and you will probably see a very different political landscape.

I think Newsthump nailed it here

**A Town Called Malus**

DINLT, why would you assume that if Russia were capable of all that, that it wouldn't do that anyway?

Why wouldn't they have done any of that as retaliation for the sanctions imposed on them? Or in retaliation for the actions taken against them so far over the Skripal poisonings?

Maybe you should step back from hysterical fearmongering about potential russian retaliation and actually think about why Russia would do any of that when it will inevitably end up worse for them if they do?

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I fear he's swallowed the Daily Mail.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I fear he's swallowed the Daily Mail.

Aren't you forgetting that the NHS suffered a major cyber attack only a few months ago?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

A Town Called Malus wrote:
DINLT, why would you assume that if Russia were capable of all that, that it wouldn't do that anyway?

Why wouldn't they have done any of that as retaliation for the sanctions imposed on them? Or in retaliation for the actions taken against them so far over the Skripal poisonings?

Maybe you should step back from hysterical fearmongering about potential russian retaliation and actually think about why Russia would do any of that when it will inevitably end up worse for them if they do?

Sanctions? Meaningless, due to the fact that China doesn't give two hoots for them, and Russia just deals with the Chinese.

Skirpal and Syria? Putin's always been known for playing the long game, and he was probably biding his time, with the Syria attacks probably speeding up his timetable.

**Herzlos**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
r_squared wrote:
There is no appetite for a second referendum even amongst remainers like myself.

Positions are entrenched, and if facts and figures didn't work last time they're certainly not going to work again in the future.

At the end of the day the Govt wanted direction from the people and they got it. It is now upto them to implement it, or pull out and face the consequences. I'm confident that in a few years time we'll be lobbying to get back in the EU anyway.

I disagree.

If Leave had a significant margin? OK. I could understand that.

But they didn't. 4% up, when just 2/3rds of the eligible population bothered to vote in the first place. Now, strike out the protest votes, factor in far more being known about what Brexit actually might entail, and strip out the lies and damned lies spewed up by Farage and Co....and you will probably see a very different political landscape.

I think Newsthump nailed it here

Exactly. Even removing the people who only voted for Brexit to give £350m/week to the NHS would likely change the result (I don't have a citation but somewhere claimed about 40% of Leavers polled claimed to believe the bus). Now we have a better idea of what Brexit *isn't* the odds are the result would be completely different.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

But the Brexiteers that worship Farage and Rees-Mogg (which is not all those who voted for Brexit) are utterly terrified they'll lose a second and subsequent referendum, because reality is scary, and they've got nothing left in the tank.

**reds8n**

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/15/no-10-refuses-caribbean-request-to-discuss-children-of-windrush?CMP=share_btn_tw

Downing Street has rejected a formal diplomatic request to discuss the immigration problems being experienced by some Windrush-generation British residents at this week’s meeting of the Commonwealth heads of government, rebuffing a request from representatives of 12 Caribbean countries for a meeting with the prime minister.

“We did make a request to the CHOGM summit team for a meeting to be held between the prime minister and the Commonwealth Caribbean heads of government who will be here for the CHOGM and regrettably they have advised us that that is not possible,” said Guy Hewitt, the Barbados high commissioner.

The refusal has given Caribbean diplomats the impression that the UK government is not taking a sufficiently serious approach to the problem that is affecting large numbers of long-term UK residents who came to Britain as children.

pathetic.

What sort of message does this send out to any immigrant ? You'll never belong here, not ever, not even after decades of legally living here.

And then we complain that they don't integrate.

To not even acknowledge there's an issue and agree to meet to discuss the issue even briefly is baffling.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

I'm in complete agreement with reds8n. 100%

It's a shameful episode and a disgraceful way to treat these people.

**reds8n**

so the Govt. released this :

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uks-first-ever-successful-prosecution-for-false-company-information

Good to see that the govt. is finally getting serious about the issue of fraudulent UK companies.

Business Minister Andrew Griffiths said:

This prosecution – the first of its kind in the UK – shows the Government will come down hard on people who knowingly break the law and file false information on the company register.

Companies House works hard to protect and continually upgrade the company register, identifying potentially criminal activities and working closely with law enforcement bodies to help bring those perpetrators to justice.

The company register is operated by Companies House and contains information about company addresses, accounts, and those who own and run companies. There are nearly 4 million companies on the UK’s company register and the vast majority of these companies use the register lawfully.

the offence :

Kevin Brewer, a businessman, incorporated John Vincent Cable Services Ltd in 2013, making the former Business Secretary Vince Cable MP a director and shareholder without his knowledge. The company was dissolved and taken off the company register after Companies House took action.

Brewer, 65, then formed another company in 2016, Cleverly Clogs Ltd, making Baroness Neville-Rolfe – the Minister with responsibility for Companies House – James Cleverly MP and an imaginary Israeli national, Ibrahim Aman, all directors and shareholders without their knowledge. Companies House dissolved the company and took it off the company register.

which is a bit odd isn't it eh ?

... especially if we go back to 2013 :

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fake-vince-cable-sets-up-2486920

Fake "Vince Cable" sets up bogus firm to show how easy it is for fraudsters
Anti-fraud campaigner starts firm using the Business Secretary's name

You have more security when dealing with UK limited companies as opposed to, say, a sole trader or foreign firm because accurate details of the bosses are a matter of public record.

At least, that used to be the case before it became so easy for fraudsters to register fake details with Companies House.

If you wanted to set up a limited company the traditional route was to contact a professional company formation agent, who had a duty under money laundering regulations to check that you are who you say you are.

Now no such checks are carried out if you set up a company online directly with Companies House. A point proved by company formation expert Kevin Brewer, who set up a firm and listed the director as Vince Cable, even though the Business Secretary had nothing to do with it.

“Fraud is simple to perpetrate and anyone can form a new company in anyone else’s name,” said Kevin, managing director of National Business Register.

“Companies House now forms one third of all new companies and does not perform any identity checks.

"It forms limited companies for anyone worldwide who chooses to use any name they pluck out of the air.”

He wrote to Mr Cable: “To illustrate the point, we have formed a company in your name without your consent and could start trading using your identity.”

Those details for John Vincent Cable Services Limited, company number 8544463, have now been removed by Companies House - but only because Kevin alerted it to the fact that bogus details has been used, something no fraudster is ever going to do.

A spokesman for Companies House admitted: “We carry out basic checks to make sure that documents have been fully completed and signed, but we do not have the statutory power or capability to verify the accuracy of the information that companies send to us.”

"We accept all information that companies deliver to us in good faith and place it on the public record."

This is not a good place to be.

so in summary the UK makes a mistake with regards to the registering of companies

This is bad as it makes things like money laundering much easier : http://www.transparency.org.uk/publications/hiding-in-plain-sight/#.WtSALi4bPct

Not to mention that whole identity misuse aspect.

An anti corruption campaigner notices, sets up a false company to show how easy it is -- and then tells the authorities....

.. resulting -- 5 years later -- in him being prosecuted by said authorities for the crime they only know about because he told them...

.. which they then boast about.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Been dealing with a strangely similar case at work...

Can't go into details, but article pretty much confirms I'm on the right track!

**Herzlos**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But the Brexiteers that worship Farage and Rees-Mogg (which is not all those who voted for Brexit) are utterly terrified they'll lose a second and subsequent referendum, because reality is scary, and they've got nothing left in the tank.

They always seem to be dead against any democracy when it doesn't agree with them - parliament having a say, another referendum, and so on. It's almost as if democracy is an excuse :(

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Certainly that's how they come across.

Sovereignty, until it's not convenient.

**Kilkrazy**

Another Brexy Bonus!

How Brexit is set to cause chaos at Europe's ports

TL/DR:A vast amount of UK import/export goes through Rottedam. This is fine as long as we are in a customs union with Holland. The customs union is one of the Brexit "red lines" so we can't be.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Ah yes.

The red lines entirely made up by those holding May's strings....

**SeanDrake**

In the alliance of incompetents that virtue bombed Syria who I like to refer to as F, UK, US all of whom have various ills on the home front.

Only 1 government claimed the attack was legal and not just "legitimate" only one leader stepped forward and clearly stated she gave the order with no input from anyone else.

Care to guess which half wit and her government that was go on I bet you cannot tell

In fact I have to say intentional or not the Washington Wotsit played this beautifully he has the Maybot saying the above and the French taylors dummy stating he talked the Wotsit into it.

Any blowback and he can say the Europeans said they had evidence and we needed to do it, I did not know the "evidence" was off alqueda and Isis,s fb posts.

Embarrassed to be British I mean hell if your going to commit war crimes at least do a Blair but all that bollocks from May and the UK fired 8 missiles.
Seriously we.could have given moral support like every other nation in Europe and save 7million quid and the last tatters of our credibility.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

We fired 8 missiles? 8??

We might as well piss in the wind.

**A Town Called Malus**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
We fired 8 missiles? 8??

We might as well piss in the wind.

Unless of course those 8 missiles destroyed the targets they were aiming at.

**Herzlos**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
We fired 8 missiles? 8??

We might as well piss in the wind.

Unless of course those 8 missiles destroyed the targets they were aiming at.

Almost all of the missiles were shot down, a total of 3 people wounded on the ground. You'd think key military targets would have more people in them.

£7,000,000 that we don't have when anyone asks for funding for anything socialist.

**Ketara**

To keep tying it back to more relevant UK politics, I get really annoyed at this bad habit of firing off overly missiles to indicate international displeasure. It achieves little and costs a fortune. We saved a fraction of money by making all the disabled people go through their bloody ATOS rechecks, and that tiny saving is wiped out in a moment's fit of pique because some nutter dropped a barrel of chlorine on the other side of the world.

Politicians really do know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

**Kilkrazy**

The UK is a rich enough country to afford 8 Storm Cloud missiles and restore disability benefits to disabled people.

We could probably save more money by not paying a private company to make ATOS assessments that routinely get overturned on appeal because they are so inaccurate.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Herzlos wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
We fired 8 missiles? 8??

We might as well piss in the wind.

Unless of course those 8 missiles destroyed the targets they were aiming at.

Almost all of the missiles were shot down, a total of 3 people wounded on the ground. You'd think key military targets would have more people in them.

£7,000,000 that we don't have when anyone asks for funding for anything socialist.

Like I said. Pissing in the wind.

**Herzlos**

I'm pretty sure the ATOS stuff cost more than they saved. I'm not sure that includes the cost of reviews too, with a 75% uphold rate.

But punishing the disabled was never a money saving effort.

**A Town Called Malus**

Herzlos wrote:
Almost all of the missiles were shot down, a total of 3 people wounded on the ground.

According to the Syrian government who are surely an impartial source of information, especially when we have satellite images of their destroyed facilities such as in this story: http://time.com/5241113/syria-bombing-before-after-photos/

As for not many casualties, maybe because they knew this attack was coming and decided that it wasn't worth losing their skilled personnel as well as their facilities.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
Almost all of the missiles were shot down, a total of 3 people wounded on the ground.

According to the Syrian government who are surely an impartial source of information.

No less impartial than the White House.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

He makes exceptions.

**Da krimson barun**

Oh come on. I'm an unapologetic Fenian and Jeremy was one of the people who tried to pull the Armalite from one hand and make sure we held the ballot box in the other. He was never in favour of armed struggle. And no I'm not going to hash out the troubles again here, I'm simply stating Corbyn advocated for peace. The governments were talking to the IRA in secret since 1972, Corbyn just talked openly to the Republican Movement.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

He couldn't bring himself to condemn the IRA bombings, couldn't get the words out of his mouth.
Same thing with Venezuela, just says 'I condemn all violence' but refuses to specifically say I condemn the Venezuelan government's actions.
But when it comes to this and similar things, there's no pussyfooting around
And he's great friends with many IRA leaders
Not to mention "our friends in hamas" and his marching with hezbolla.
Not the kind of man I'd trust to be in charge of this country's national security. It's alright when it's his side of the workers' struggle against the capitalist West, but when it's the evil imperialist establishment, big no no.

I don't trust him as far as I can throw him, and I think I'd struggle to raise him above my head.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention he surrounds himself with pretty terrible people. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/16/diane-abbott-uses-faked-photo-israeli-fighter-jet-bombing-tehran/amp/