40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**ClockworkZion**

Latro_ wrote:
'‘First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!’. This now makes a unit of Astra Militarum infantry treat their lasguns and hot-shot lasguns as Rapid Fire 2; that’s 4 shots per Guardsman at half range! '

'it'll be really hard to take down a dreadnought with lasguns unless you have a bucket load of shots'

hahaha you just got a bucket load of shots

You'll need a bigger bucket than that.

**EnTyme**

kronk wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/

Confirms that rapid fire doubles shots at half range. Confirms that Sniper weapons can freely target characters. Leman Russ is T8 and 12 Wounds.

Even Ratlings – with their sniper weapons allowing them to pick out and target Characters – will now be reaping a tally on your enemy’s leaders in the name of the Emperor!

To whomever called sniper rifles as character targeters/killers a few pages back, well done! Credit where credit is due. My sniper scouts will FINALLY get used!

Wow! Glad I just bought more Deathmarks.

**Crimson**

Ratius wrote:

Notably Rough Riders are still a thing,

Indeed! I hope this means they will finally get plastic models.

**Lord Kragan**

sturguard wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
sturguard wrote:
I am not sure why folks think this is the most play tested version of 40k.

Because GW has admitted they haven't put as much effort into any other edition before this one, to include when 3rd and 4th came out.

sturguard wrote:
However one thing is certain, no matter what rules they come up with the players will break. 100% guarantee.

Likely true. That said, if GW holds up on their promise to keep updating the edition said breaks will be fixed in a timely manner.

What would lead you to believe that? Given GWs track record there has to be more than just "they told us so"?

How long has AoS been out? When are the Ogres getting their update?

It's been out for 22-ish months now. Ogres received an update some 9-10 months ago.

**YeOldSaltPotato**

Youn wrote:
Hmm, that is odd.

Bolters -- Rapid Fire 1 = 1 shot at more then half range, 2 shots at half range?

Lasguns - Rapid fire 2 = 2 shots at more then half range, 4 shots at half range

Wonder if Stormbolter will go to being Rapid fire 2 instead of assault 2?

Also note that it's a command that makes lasguns work like that. Not base lasguns. So who knows what that means for other weapons.

**tneva82**

docdoom77 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/

Confirms that rapid fire doubles shots at half range. Confirms that Sniper weapons can freely target characters. Leman Russ is T8 and 12 Wounds.

Now THAT is faction focus article that is actually more than just marketing speech.

Also one point regarding character rules. Overall I have no big issue with it(the loss of cinematics is sad but something's got to go). Mechanically there's one issue I have with it though it's minor one. Basically the gap between 10th and 11th wound is big. As it is now getting that 11th wound is huge drawback. Characters probably will prefer having 10 wounds over 16! And it intuitivitely feels WRONG being punished by having extra wounds...

Also it removes some flexibility as you can't have small character that should be able to hide with say 12 wounds. Albeit no character like that exists now(I think no character fits that description) but it does limit potential for new models.

Since they have keywords now feel this would have been good place to do it on keywords. Negative effect keywords isn't anything weird so having negative keyword that prevents hiding for heroes would be quite doable and would make more wounds be always good. And remove that artificial 10->11 wound gap that's going to be killer. I mean it feels odd you have 11 wound model and say 6 wound model with otherwise equal and have the 11 wound one be cheaper...

**Slayer-Fan123**

That's nice and all but I want at least a snippet of info for Necrons!

**Latro_**

Ratius wrote:

Anyone wanna mathammer out some lasguns VS a Leman Russ? Wait. Just kidding.

Sure

it will take on average:
432 lasgun shots from a normal guardsmen to kill a russ

324 if fired by veterans with a better BS

XD

**Unusual Suspect**

From facebook:

The Chaos article was a little light compared to this one on the juicy details, so we'll use Rubric Marines when we look at Datasheets later in the week. How's that?

**kronk**

Unusual Suspect wrote:
From facebook:

The Chaos article was a little light compared to this one on the juicy details, so we'll use Rubric Marines when we look at Datasheets later in the week. How's that?

Sweet!

**Ratius**

Sure

it will take on average:
432 lasgun shots from a normal guardsmen to kill a russ
324 if fired by veterans with a better BS

XD

Now do a 20 man squad in rapid fire range

**En Excelsis**

davou wrote:
En Excelsis wrote:
it means that they will arrive at conclusions which favor whatever bias was present in those specific pockets of the community - which seems specific to tournament organizers. Their interest in clearly in streamlining the game for greater efficiency (here: shorter matches).

You do realize that the people running thouse 'tournaments' also run the largest narrative events that have ever existed in 40k? Apocalypse games spanning 30+ tables, recreations of seige of terra, small killteam daylong campaigns.

Their events are nnot just a grand tournament full of people beating each other with deathstars. They have paiting and modeling showcases, fluff competitions, narrative gameplay, and even third part games. They even run game shops! They're literally everything you want, plus everything I want; but people are begruding them for their tournament success

My bad, I didn't realize that these playtesters were in fact deities who know and love everything about 40k and can do no wrong. Forgive me oh Lord of the Tournament Host!

My statement is no less true just because you think more highly of the playtester than I do. For the record, I wasn't exactly calling them bad people either, I simply stated that because they are in the role of playtesting and as such they have the ear of GW, it will be their bias that finds its way into the rules. All human beings have bias - impartiality is less common than unicorns.

Without using the same words GW has already confirmed as much - their own verbiage clearly illustrates a strong desire to streamline play for shorter matches. They are clearly in the market for more games played at a more rapid pace (quantity over quality).

**Latro_**

Ratius wrote:
Sure

it will take on average:
432 lasgun shots from a normal guardsmen to kill a russ
324 if fired by veterans with a better BS

XD

Now do a 20 man squad in rapid fire range

2.2 wounds for normal guardsmen
2.9 for 20 veterans

fyi thats 80 dice rolls we are talking about there XD

**Unusual Suspect**

Ratius wrote:
Sure

it will take on average:
432 lasgun shots from a normal guardsmen to kill a russ
324 if fired by veterans with a better BS

XD

Now do a 20 man squad in rapid fire range

432 shots divided by 40 shots/turn (20 men, 2 shots per lasgun) = 11 turns.

Or, if using FRFSRF, 432 shots divided by 80 shots/turn (20 men, 4 shots per lasgun) = 6 turns.

**Ratius**

Ok so now do it for......
No, just stop it Ratius.

**Youn**

The only issue I see with this pro-longed marketting campaign is our FLGS are suffering a lack of interest in buying at the moment. Heck, my store I go to is having people even bother to play 7th edition.

It means they pretty much have to weather no real sales for 2 months. Until June 17th....

Went up there last night and people were sitting around chatting instead of playing.

**tneva82**

ClockworkZion wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/

Confirms that rapid fire doubles shots at half range. Confirms that Sniper weapons can freely target characters. Leman Russ is T8 and 12 Wounds.

Commisars still help negate the penalties for morale, and that Leman Russ doesn't start slowing until it loses half of it's wounds. I think we can gather that the first half of a model's wounds won't cause degrading statlines to kick in.

Rapid Fire seems to be the total number of shots at full range and double at half (Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2 under FRFSRF).

Limit. Not negate(as in no battleshock). Hopefully bit better than just reroll if blops are still a thing.

**Kanluwen**

Ratius wrote:
Some juicy updates today
Notably Rough Riders are still a thing

Gross...

That, to me, is one of the biggest downfalls of them doing the whole "No model left behind!" thing. I hate Rough Riders. I've ranted/raved about it elsewhere so I'll refrain from doing it too much here, but man. I'm not happy to see that.

Also really bummed to STILL not have an answer as to whether or not Guard Sergeants can take a flipping Lasgun. ARGH!
Marine Sergeants can take Boltguns, Tau squad leaders don't upgrade, etc. Why the frig do Guard have mandatory ones?

**lessthanjeff**

Unusual Suspect wrote:
From facebook:

The Chaos article was a little light compared to this one on the juicy details, so we'll use Rubric Marines when we look at Datasheets later in the week. How's that?

That excites me greatly, good catch and thanks for sharing it! I was disappointed with Rubric performance in traitor legions but I'm hoping they'll get a good second chance here. I miss their 2 wound durability and immunity to small arms fire from past editions.

**tneva82**

Youn wrote:
The only issue I see with this pro-longed marketting campaign is our FLGS are suffering a lack of interest in buying at the moment. Heck, my store I go to is having people even bother to play 7th edition.

It means they pretty much have to weather no real sales for 2 months. Until June 17th....

Went up there last night and people were sitting around chatting instead of playing.

You know they have released enough info now that you could run some basic games reasonably accurately. Makes me actually want to try it. Some basic marines and IG vs orks. Nothing too fancy.

Obviously need SOME extrapolation but still gives some idea what the 8th ed will look like.

**Ratius**

That, to me, is one of the biggest downfalls of them doing the whole "No model left behind!" thing. I hate Rough Riders.

/shrug. To each their own!

**Breng77**

tneva82 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/

Confirms that rapid fire doubles shots at half range. Confirms that Sniper weapons can freely target characters. Leman Russ is T8 and 12 Wounds.

Commisars still help negate the penalties for morale, and that Leman Russ doesn't start slowing until it loses half of it's wounds. I think we can gather that the first half of a model's wounds won't cause degrading statlines to kick in.

Rapid Fire seems to be the total number of shots at full range and double at half (Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2 under FRFSRF).

Limit. Not negate(as in no battleshock). Hopefully bit better than just reroll if blops are still a thing.

Plenty of ways that this could happen. Give him a rule that says "disregard all casualties exceeding LD for squads within 6"? So at most the unit loses 6 guys. Or have him kill D6 models instead of taking the test if desired.

**ClockworkZion**

Time to roll up the Q&A comments on Facebook again:

Characters
Q: > Guilliman standing further away than a single guardsman.
> Enemy cannot target the huge dude that towers over vehicles, because single Guardsman is closer.
Makes sense.
A: If your army can't kill that one Guardsman first, what exactly were you going to shoot at Guilliman that was going to worry him?

Q: So how about tanky IC's, will they be able to soak fire in lieu of their units still? Or can you bypass an IC to shoot up a unit behind them?
A: Nope.
If you want something "tanky" in Warhammer 40,000, you should put your units in a tank.

No more independent characters magically intercepting an entire armies shooting on their tiny stormshield.

Q: to avoid indipendent character to join a nearby unit it's an idiocy... a very bad rules and poor design. my character should led his comrades to the victory fighting in first line, and not hiding himself behind his comrades to avoid being targeted from enemy fire. very poor decision gw... there are countless sistem to avoid death star and this is the worst. welcome to the era of coward heroes in 41k millenium
A: Hey Gisberto,
We suggest you give it a try first. It really does work. Even in the current rules these heroes tend to deploy at the back of units.
In the new Warhammer 40,000, we tend to find characters used to accompanying units, advancing alongside the main battleline, possibly flanked on either side by squads, which looks great on the tabletop.

Q: Does that mean a Commissar can stiffen the backs of more than one unit of glorious Astra Militarum!? The Commissar union will have them on strike after this blatant downsizing and cost cutting venture from Terra!
A: We're pretty sure that going on strike is against the Commissariat guidelines.

Q: Will there be weapon types such as the sniper rifle that will avoid the closest target rule and be able to pick out characters?
A: Wouldn't that be something...

Q: I like this!! I am just wondering how the wording will be for the command benefits from some characters. I can see people trying to fin the loop hole and mix matching characters around a unit to beef them up with out having the characters join the unit.

I am hopeful the just canceled the deathstars for the most part!!!
A: Hey Allan,
It's certainly still beneficial to have your units accompanied by Characters, but the days of units benefitting from special abilities from heroes outside their faction is gone, and generally, it is harder to keep both the unit, and character totally safe from harm, which has been an issue in the past.

Q: How will this effect deployment in transports like drop pod lists etc? Will the character need to buy a pod for himself or can he still hitch a ride with another squad and separate once he's landed?
A: Hey Kevin,
Good question. We'll be looking at transports in detail in an article soon.

Q: Warhammer 40,000 but there's still a big part of characters I'm dying to know...challenges! Do challenges still exist for characters? Or is that gone from this edition?
A: Hey Clinton,
challenge rules are gone from the fight phase, but the restriction on hitting lone characters is only in the shooting phase, so expect to still see mighty heroes taking chunks out of each other in the fight phase.

Q: I'm intrigued as this would appear to mean no more command squads/ honored guards etc but you've also stated that everything will still be usable. Any clues how this is going to work?
A: Why would that mean you can't have Command Squads? You can totally still have Command Squads.

Q: Girlyman is just too shy so he hide behind his smurfs while my man, Magnus who is a sorcerer need to fight like a man. Good job!
A: Also, he's as big as a house.
You ever tried to hide a flying red cyclops the size of a house? Not so easy.

Q: The shooting rule makes sense since there would have been a wall of rage over hero's being sniped.

Is magic similarly effected or can characters still be sniped with long range psyker spells?

Any chance of getting this in AoS? Would be awesome to protect my Savage Maniak Weirdnobs as they move up behind boarboys
A: We saw already that "Smite" (your default killy-power) targets the closest unit only. Some other powers might be different though.

Q: Greatly disliking this change- now my Company Master can't join up with his COMMAND SQUAD, and is essentially reduced to just a passive buff-bot following his troops around and leading from the rear. There must have been a better way to fix deathstars, like more accurate point costs, or doing away with allies or something.
A: Hey Peter, There is nothing stopping you having your commander advance to battle with his Command Squad.

Q: What about when characters are in combat? Can they be targeted if they are the closest model? (e.g. A tactical square with a chaplain is charged by a unit of assault terminators. If one of the terminators is "base to base" with the chaplain, can he be targeted by that terminator?)
A: Indeed, you can't hide in Melee.

Q: Really disappointed with this, though at least it seems to only apply to independent characters.

I get why but yet again it feels like a sledgehammer approach over a scalpel.

Yeah,Guilliman will be fine with his crazy stats or the Chaplin type hero where they have good T and armour stat along with an inv save and the wargear options to make them good at close range shooting and cc but what about the ones that don't?.

Guard commissars and colonels,pretty much every type of Eldar,Dark eldar and quin character, necron cryptek and mini lords etc.
It's ok being "safe " when outside 12" or behind a unit but many races have podding unit's or deep strike capable of getting in that range easily,or flyers that are quick enough to get behind them. With many of those "support " characters having only a 4/5 save before modifiers they feel horribly exposed.

I know we haven't seen full rules yet but that feels so unbalanced towards Sm level hqs who were the worst offenders for deathstars
A: Hey Kaibong,
Jeremy's right about being able to hide a little either in, or between units. Also, we've yet to cover how things like Drop Pods work in the new game (we will, don't worry.)
In practice, all armies will have ways to protect their characters.

Q: please reconsider this change. I fully understand nerfing death stars, but banning chericters from joining any unit is one of the worst rules in aos and has no place in 40k. it would have been much better to limit chericters to joining units of their own faction. i was really looking forward to 8th, but this has just killed all of my enthusiasm for it. I guess I'll stick to 7th and hope you reverse this terrible decision with 9th ed.
A: Hey Andrew,
Thanks for your thoughts.
It is still pretty hard to kill a character with shooting here - they have to be the closest model to be targeted, unlike in Warhammer Age of Sigmar. So you still find characters advancing into battle alongside their squads, much as many of them do today. What's been removed, are the more extreme examples of multiple-character mega-units.

Q: So with area effects, why can't you just keep 3+ hqs huddled together behind an infantry blog or two, keeping them alive and adding cumulative buffs (possibly to each other)?
A: Hey Aaron,
Lots of reasons - like getting all those units dragged into a combat with a single unit, and not being able to shoot next turn. Or being so packed together, you can't take objectives easily.

Q: Will currently legal conversions such as Chaos Lords on Bikes or jump pack sorcerers that do not have current models still have rules in 8th?

Also will characters be able to jump in with a squad in there dedicated transport (if there's room)?
A: Hey Tim,
Good questions.
We're well aware loads of you out there have converted up characters for your armies with the current options - you'll be glad to hear that both of those units you mentioned are covered in the new rules.
We'll deal with transport units in an article soon.

Q: So Magnus can be shot on while girlyman the immortal can't. Makes sense. Also in a 1v1 girlyman best Magnus with his crazy sword and resurrection steroids
A: Hey Kim,
Both brothers get new rules in the new edition - who's to say that's even the case anymore?
Magnus is going to do just fine, don't worry.

Q: So are Tyrant Guard obsolete? Or are they possibly an upgrade option for a Hive Tyrant? Not like they could ever join any other kind of unit anyway...
A: Hey Robert,
Like all Warhammer 40,000 units, Tyrant Guard will get new rules, including some that might just help them keep the big guy alive if he's nearby...

Q: How will this affect the hive tyrant when he has tyrant guard that are suppose to take wounds for him?
A: Hey Jonathan,All units, including Tyranids get new rules to go along with this new edition. They will work as you imagine they should, don't worry.

Q: Really curious how Astra Militarum Command Squad will work? Should I be building up some Flag Sergeant to lead them?
A: Hey Bradley,
Good question - we know there are a lot of questions raised here.
We'll have more on specific units in articles soon, don't worry.

Q: So how does models that grant FNP work? Does FNP even exist outside of AoS Nurgle Demons any more?
A: Hey Ryan,
Good question.
Every single model has new rules in the new edition, so don't assume your character's rules will work in the same way. It may well be a bonus to certain units within range to make them more durable.

Q: How will this work with units that are "meant" to accompany an HQ? Like the Court of the Archon or Tyrant Guard?
A: Hey John,
They can totally still accompany them to battle.
All will get new rules, some to help protect their character, others will further bolster the units around them.

Q: So i built and painted my blood angel honour guard for nothing? Cheers guys.
A: Hey Christopher,
You can absolutely use your Blood Angels Honour Guard in the new edition. Why would you not be able to?

Q: Wait, are Kroot Shapers now an HQ? Are there even HQ in this edition anymore? As a Kroot Fanatic I must know.
A: Hey Hunter,
HQ's are certainly still a thing, but there are plenty of Characters aren't HQ's. The Kroot Shaper is one of these.

Q: So shadowsun cant have stealthsuit bodyguards anymore?? Her bloody rules revolved around that!!
A: Maybe she has new rules.

(She totally has new rules.)

Q: How will Drop pods work? Can they carry multiple units or do you need a separate drop pod for the character?
A: Hey Paul,
thanks for the question.
We'll cover transports in detail soon, don't worry.

Q: this will be a great change IF you can put multiple units in transports. otherwise characters will be stranded
A: Hey Jonathan,
Glad you like the changes.
We'll cover transport vehicles in detail in an article soon.

Q: will techpriest engineseers still have attached servitors? how will commissars and priests work. actually i like the idea of a comissar scaring ever unit around him into holding the line and him pulling the trigger at any unit that fails
A: Hey Lilia,
We like that image too!
You'll have to wait a little longer for full details on each unit's exact rules though.

Q: What happens to command squads now?
A: Hey Robert,
Command Squads work as they always have - a great unit to accompany your commander to battle.
All will get new rules, some to help protect their character, others will further bolster the units around them.

Q: So no more command squads?
A: There are absolutely still Command Squads.

~~Astra Militarum~~ Imperial Guard Focus
Q: When can we expect a Dark Eldar preview? Need to know how my favourite pointy eared friends will play
A: we'll have a Dark Eldar preview soon - we're going to run through all the factions.

Q: Can the chaos article be rewritten to include some juicy details as well?
A: Ace. The Chaos article was a little light compared to this one on the juicy details, so we'll use Rubric Marines when we look at Datasheets later in the week. How's that?

Q: Automatic win with Sly Marbo now, right?
A: we think it's a 2+ with re-roll.

Q: I wouldnt call a las gun trusty
A: That is why it fails you.

So some new info, some confirmations, and a bunch of snark™.

**Azreal13**

So Chaos Marines got their update first and as a consequence seem to have been cheated out of a quality write up.

Deja vu!

**ClockworkZion**

tneva82 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
docdoom77 wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/09/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-astra-militarum/

Confirms that rapid fire doubles shots at half range. Confirms that Sniper weapons can freely target characters. Leman Russ is T8 and 12 Wounds.

Commisars still help negate the penalties for morale, and that Leman Russ doesn't start slowing until it loses half of it's wounds. I think we can gather that the first half of a model's wounds won't cause degrading statlines to kick in.

Rapid Fire seems to be the total number of shots at full range and double at half (Rapid Fire 1 becomes Rapid Fire 2 under FRFSRF).

Limit. Not negate(as in no battleshock). Hopefully bit better than just reroll if blops are still a thing.

Well shooting a single model to prevent your unit from losing a bunch of them would be a limited version of the full effects.

**Insectum7**

Kanluwen wrote:
Ratius wrote:
Some juicy updates today
Notably Rough Riders are still a thing

Gross...

That, to me, is one of the biggest downfalls of them doing the whole "No model left behind!" thing. I hate Rough Riders. I've ranted/raved about it elsewhere so I'll refrain from doing it too much here, but man. I'm not happy to see that.

"I dont like it when other people can take models they like, but I don't like."

**ClockworkZion**

Azreal13 wrote:
So Chaos Marines got their update first and as a consequence seem to have been cheated out of a quality write up.

Deja vu!

They're getting a patch later this week with a Rubric Marine focus article though.

**En Excelsis**

Kanluwen wrote:
Ratius wrote:
Some juicy updates today
Notably Rough Riders are still a thing

Gross...

That, to me, is one of the biggest downfalls of them doing the whole "No model left behind!" thing. I hate Rough Riders. I've ranted/raved about it elsewhere so I'll refrain from doing it too much here, but man. I'm not happy to see that.

Also really bummed to STILL not have an answer as to whether or not Guard Sergeants can take a flipping Lasgun. ARGH!
Marine Sergeants can take Boltguns, Tau squad leaders don't upgrade, etc. Why the frig do Guard have mandatory ones?

Even if you don't like the models personally it's better to have the option for players other than yourself to use them. Why rob them of a choice simply because you would make it differently?

I kind of wonder if this line of reasoning isn't why we haven't seen new plastic SoB models... if 8th Ed continues in its current direction the SoB are going to be a real contender and those gawd-awful pewter models deserve a swift, clean death.

**ClockworkZion**

Insectum7 wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Ratius wrote:
Some juicy updates today
Notably Rough Riders are still a thing

Gross...

That, to me, is one of the biggest downfalls of them doing the whole "No model left behind!" thing. I hate Rough Riders. I've ranted/raved about it elsewhere so I'll refrain from doing it too much here, but man. I'm not happy to see that.

"I dont like it when other people can take models they like, but I don't like."

Hasn't that been the argument against Tau since 3rd?

**Crimson**

Kanluwen wrote:

Gross...

That, to me, is one of the biggest downfalls of them doing the whole "No model left behind!" thing. I hate Rough Riders. I've ranted/raved about it elsewhere so I'll refrain from doing it too much here, but man. I'm not happy to see that.

Yes, god forbid someone else might like them! It is obviously not enough for you to just not include them in your army, they must be eradicated from the game altogether!