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2017/05/10 21:33:42
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
So the D6 on the Battlecannon is HITS not SHOTS? Roll to hit, if you do, roll a D6 on the unit for the number of models hit? Anyone else reading it that way?
That seems like an appropriate way to read that response, though I would take that with a grain of salt.
Other sources (including, IIRC, FLG, who were playtesting this edition) have suggests its merely the number of shots, and that you still have to roll to-hit as normal.
But IF its auto-hits and not merely shots... well, that would boost the effectiveness of a Battlecannon significantly.
(I'm guessing it isn't, since blast weapons traditionally had a to-hit equivalent, Scatter Dice, where templates did not)
Yeah. I'm about 99% sure it's d6 shots. That's what Heavy d6 means. Heavy 3 doesn't mean 3 hits, it means 3 shots.
SeanDrake wrote: Quick question, while based on the limited information we have how is the game going to be quicker?
Infantry appear to suck at killing infantry and also in most cases vehicles.
vehicles appear to suck at killing infantry and in most cases other vehicles.
This combined with number of wounds and 6 always being a save, means killing stuff is going to be a slow process despite the various changes and the whole anything can kill anything thing.
Were past the point of buckets of dice and into the era of gallon drums full of dice for a lot of units. Which is a time sink and match this up with individual model based split fire and the high likelyhood that there will be a lot of rerolls because of "special" rules.
Also there will always be the thing that you will shoot with every unit even against sub-optimal targets due to everything can kill everything and you just never know. Which will slow the game down.
Unless they are increasing points massively to reduce Armies back to 2nd/3rd edition size which I highly doubt I don't see it being quicker.
Your just going to spend a lot of time depending on your army watching and rolling 10-80 dice per unit.
How do infantry suck at killing infantry? Everytime you kill something you force a battleshock test, that adds up over time. And you no longer have o all hit the same target. That means every big gun is going to try and hit the targets it was made for regardless of who it can charge etc. As for your rerolls comment so far there hasnt been mention of any rerolls, and I think twinlinked shows that theyd rather you throw more dice than have you reroll a few dice.
As for the shoot every unit against everything, honestly in most games if you were in range of something you usually shot at it, very rarely did a unit just sit there and do nothing unless you were playing a knight list and had an infantry squad with just base weapons.
Well while I am guessing if you have a look at AoS almost 50% of all "special" rules are re-rolls with the rest being +/- modifiers and I do not see that changing when ported over.
Well the base infantry weapons we have seen so far have all been low str zero rend meaning even ork t shirts and guard cardboard is stopping marines rocket propelled bolts now. It could be the case that basic units just become special weapon caddies for the 1or2 men who actually do the majority of the killing other than dumb luck rolling 6's with the rest of the unit and then the opponent failing there save. As for battleshock there was about 10 pages of AoS people saying that it was no big deal so I am going to take there word for it.
Maybe I missed something, but aren't units basically treated like special weapon caddies where anyone who doesn't have the special or heavy weapon (or melee weapon occasionally) is an ablative wound that can sometimes do plinking damage?
2017/05/10 21:33:52
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Weapons Part 2: Dakka Boogaloo Q: I love the new template-less world of 40k. No more worrying about spacing everyone out because they all get hit the same anyway now. Though the term Pie Plate of Doom will be missed
A: The Pie and the Mega-Pie will live on in our hearts.
Q: Looking through the comments, It's incredible how blatantly communicated information can be misinterpreted so easily. I don't envy whoever has to answer the same question about twinlinked heavy bolters over and over again.
I'm scared to see what the Spartan assault tank can do now that God hammer landraiders get 4 lascannon shots. Not to mention the other insane arms forgeworld models have access too. Gonna be a lot of info to process on day 1. very excited none the less.
A: Answering the same question over and over again in new and exciting ways is pretty much half our life...!
Q: How much does this "heavy d6" weigh? Does this mean I cant my old plastic dice?
A: HAHA! Best comment of the day....
Q: From the bottom of my humble imperial guardsmen heart, thank you, just thank you gw ❤ Now back to the frontline, those filthy traitors won't die by themselves!
A: *sheds a tear of Imperial pride*
Q: I'm really looking forward for the new 40k.
but when do we see some close combat weapons and rules?
A: Real soon! There is a focus article on the way for melee weapons.
Q: So a number of guns got even better. Is there no love for melee weapons?
As an asside at some point will there be an article discussing how (or possibly if at all) Shooting and Melee have been balanced against one another because at the moment from what has been shown the already dominant shooting phase seems to have gained even more and the major weakness of melee, namely getting into melee before being shot to peices, has not really been addressed?
A: We haven't seen many melee weapons yet, but trust us when we say some of them are.. well...rancid. Just wait until you see what Kharn the Betrayer's axe does...
It's...graphic.
Q: So just to make sure he difference now between a Stormbolter and a Twin-linked bolted is that at long range they both fire 2 shots and at half range the two linked has 4 and the stormbolter is an assault weapon?
Spelling mistakes fixed- Storm Bolger, twin linked bolted
A: Hey Samuel - we haven't seen the stats for a stormbolter yet! We reckon they will do oh, so many shots...
Q: I am a bit confused on the big guns. Do multiple wounds spill over to other troopers? If not a battlecannons looks underwhelming due to rng?
I have to look at the point cost of a leman russ and its option to have a clear picture i think
A: No, they don't spill over. If Trooper Jenkins takes 6 wounds, he dies real bad. He doesn't die so hard that 5 of his mates die from sympathy pains...
Q: Will weapons with multiple damage (such as D6) cause wounds the same way Destroyer weapons currently do, ie if a model in a unit is hit, and the model dies, any excess wounds won't be carried over?
A: Hey Tara-. A weapon hits a target and saves are made. For each save failed, the model that failed the save takes the damage indicated. That means, against a Battle Cannon, D6 models will take D3 wounds each. That could be D6 really, really dead Chaos Cultists. It DOESN'T mean possibly 18 dead Cultists.
Q: Another big up for shooting armies...I see why now the game is fast paced. Everything will die very fast, i do not believe that we will see a lot of things coming in melee tho for now.
A: Assault isn't toast at all, guys... hang on for the melee weapons focus coming soon...
Q: Quick question on the Damage characteristic. Does a damage characteristic of 3 kill 3 one wound models? Or does it inflict 3 wounds to a single model that don't carry over to other models in the unit?
A: It does 3 wounds to one model. No carrying over onto other members of the unit.
Q: Wow! Looks intense! Double shots for Twin-Linked weapons at half range? That is pretty crazy! The twin linked heavy bolter says its Heavy 6, so it gets 12 shots at Half range? Wow!
A: Have a look again, Horton! The profile is for a twin linked Heavy Bolter. Standard is 3 shots, twin linked is 6, at all ranges.
Q: Will there be positive AP modifiers? For example would an AP 6 weapon in 7th edition concert into AP +1 in 8th one?
A: Not that we have seen yet, no.
Q: I'm really liking what I'm hearing so far. Can't wait for the new edition!! When?? When?? When??
A: Real soon....
Q: So is the new twin linked heavy bolter up to 6 shots, 12 at 18"?
A: Hey Matt - nope - it's heavy 3 for a standard gun, and heavy 6 for the twin-linked gun. It's range makes no difference on how many shots it gets.
Q: May I please ask what is the difference between rapid fire and twin-linked for 8th edition?
A: Hey Lian - sure thing. Rapid fire lets you double your shots at half range. Twin-linked gives you double shots at all ranges. Range makes no difference to twin-linked shots.
Q: Does this mean my Elysian Vulture now shoot 40 shots?! :O *drops jaw*
A: If a Punisher cannonstill has 20 shots... then..yes!
Q: Thats 6 shots at half range yes? Not 6 shots in total and 12 shots at half range.
A: It's 6 shots in total. This is not a rapid fire weapons, so no doubling the number on the profile as you do with rapid-fire.
Q: Battle Cannon is A1 steak sauce! Question I have now is: Will vehicles have the ability to target multiple units? Example: Leman Russ Battle Tank fires Battle Cannon at big Tyranid monster, fire the Heavy Bolters at the Genestealers.
A: Haha! Actually made us laugh, this!
EDIT: Tanks can split their weapons fire between different targets.
Q: So...Battlecannon has Heavy D6...does this mean up to 6 shots or up to 6 Auto-Hits like the Flamer...?
A: It's a random number of hits. If it was always 6 hits, it would be Heavy 6.
Q: Only imperium weapons again?
This is becoming a bad joke. Very disapointing.
A: That's actually the profile for a Chaos Space Marine Heavy Bolter....
Q: Question from yesterday, did all that apply to sgts?
A: No - Sgts are part of the unit.
Q: Wow, that means a lot of dakka!
A: It reeeeally is!
Q: What is Gauss going to do for Necrons? Tesla?
A: Wait for the Necron Faction Focus....
Q: Wow! Now a Land Raider Crusader can do 18 shoots
A: We count 24 on the twin-linked boltguns at half range...
Q: What about plasma pistols ?
A: They get so, so good.... just you wait and see!
So the D6 on the Battlecannon is HITS not SHOTS? Roll to hit, if you do, roll a D6 on the unit for the number of models hit? Anyone else reading it that way?
That's how it looks to me!
Jesse
"Always keep fighting, it keeps you young." - Some guy.
2017/05/10 21:35:49
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
So the D6 on the Battlecannon is HITS not SHOTS? Roll to hit, if you do, roll a D6 on the unit for the number of models hit? Anyone else reading it that way?
No. They just only answered half the question. They got hung up on the "6 hits" part of it (rather than 1-6 hits). I'm fairly certain they clarified it somewhere.
I didn't see it in their responses. That said, they could have been mistaken.
At least we did confirm that tanks can split fire.
2017/05/10 21:36:10
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Maybe I missed something, but aren't units basically treated like special weapon caddies where anyone who doesn't have the special or heavy weapon (or melee weapon occasionally) is an ablative wound that can sometimes do plinking damage?
Depends I guess if you play marines or guard this could be true but Necron,Tau and Eldar troops all held there own even with there base units/weapons I just wonder if this will be carried across.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/10 21:37:56
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
2017/05/10 21:37:33
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
So the D6 on the Battlecannon is HITS not SHOTS? Roll to hit, if you do, roll a D6 on the unit for the number of models hit? Anyone else reading it that way?
That seems like an appropriate way to read that response, though I would take that with a grain of salt.
Other sources (including, IIRC, FLG, who were playtesting this edition) have suggests its merely the number of shots, and that you still have to roll to-hit as normal.
But IF its auto-hits and not merely shots... well, that would boost the effectiveness of a Battlecannon significantly.
(I'm guessing it isn't, since blast weapons traditionally had a to-hit equivalent, Scatter Dice, where templates did not)
I was wondering if it was a single shot that you'd roll to hit that would then turn into D6 hits on a successful hit. But that might make too much sense.
2017/05/10 21:38:12
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Q: So a number of guns got even better. Is there no love for melee weapons?
As an asside at some point will there be an article discussing how (or possibly if at all) Shooting and Melee have been balanced against one another because at the moment from what has been shown the already dominant shooting phase seems to have gained even more and the major weakness of melee, namely getting into melee before being shot to peices, has not really been addressed?
A: We haven't seen many melee weapons yet, but trust us when we say some of them are.. well...rancid. Just wait until you see what Kharn the Betrayer's axe does...
It's...graphic.
Q: Another big up for shooting armies...I see why now the game is fast paced. Everything will die very fast, i do not believe that we will see a lot of things coming in melee tho for now.
A: Assault isn't toast at all, guys... hang on for the melee weapons focus coming soon...
Is it me or are just really not understanding people's worry about melee units not making it to combat? I mean it honestly doesn't matter what a melee weapon does if the units carrying are never going to make it across the table.
I honestly haven't seen anything that makes horde armies viable, just a lot that makes them worse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/10 21:40:38
*witty comment regarding table top gaming*
2017/05/10 21:39:07
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Q: So a number of guns got even better. Is there no love for melee weapons?
As an asside at some point will there be an article discussing how (or possibly if at all) Shooting and Melee have been balanced against one another because at the moment from what has been shown the already dominant shooting phase seems to have gained even more and the major weakness of melee, namely getting into melee before being shot to peices, has not really been addressed? A: We haven't seen many melee weapons yet, but trust us when we say some of them are.. well...rancid. Just wait until you see what Kharn the Betrayer's axe does...
It's...graphic.
Q: Another big up for shooting armies...I see why now the game is fast paced. Everything will die very fast, i do not believe that we will see a lot of things coming in melee tho for now. A: Assault isn't toast at all, guys... hang on for the melee weapons focus coming soon...
Is it me or are just really not understanding people's worry about melee units not making it to combat? I mean it honestly doesn't matter what a melee weapon does if the units carrying are never going to make it across the table.
I honestly haven't seen anything that makes horde armies viable, just a lot that makes them worse.
They are probably going for a high risk, high reward sort of thing, where melee is much deadlier than shooting, but you have to reach them first. Whether or not they do it right is another matter. Transports will probably play a role. They haven't covered those yet.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/10 21:43:48
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/05/10 21:44:06
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Grinshanks wrote: I honestly haven't seen anything that makes horde armies viable, just a lot that makes them worse.
The to wound table and AP system disappearing is both huge for Orks for example. Str 6 & 7 weapons are now wounding on 3+ rather than 2+, and previously they got no save vs the vast majority of weapons in the game. Now there's plenty where you still get a save.
2017/05/10 21:45:06
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Q: So a number of guns got even better. Is there no love for melee weapons?
As an asside at some point will there be an article discussing how (or possibly if at all) Shooting and Melee have been balanced against one another because at the moment from what has been shown the already dominant shooting phase seems to have gained even more and the major weakness of melee, namely getting into melee before being shot to peices, has not really been addressed?
A: We haven't seen many melee weapons yet, but trust us when we say some of them are.. well...rancid. Just wait until you see what Kharn the Betrayer's axe does...
It's...graphic.
Q: Another big up for shooting armies...I see why now the game is fast paced. Everything will die very fast, i do not believe that we will see a lot of things coming in melee tho for now.
A: Assault isn't toast at all, guys... hang on for the melee weapons focus coming soon...
Is it me or are jjst really not understanding people's worry about melee units not making it to combat? I mean it honestly doesn't matter what a melee weapon does if the units carrying are never going to make it across the table.
I honestly haven't seed anything that makes hord armies viable, Just a lot that makes them worse.
Some buffs that help Melee Units get into combat:
+ With the basic weapons across the board looking like they're AP 0 more models will survive shooting.
+ With less need to spread out mobs can hug cover more effectively.
+ Faster movement means many melee dedicated units will be able to close the gap faster (Hormagaunts are looking like they're 8" movement for example. If fleet still exists in the same fashion as before that's 8+D6" move, plus 2D6+1" charge for a max threat range of 28")
We're still waiting to see what rules vehicles have, but if the rumors are true, then assaulting out of Transports will be something that more than Orks and Dark Eldar can do further buffing units like Howling Banshees.
I'm willing to bet on units have access to rerolls to charge ranges through army rules, or wargear as well.
We only can see the tip of the iceberg, let's not kill melee before we have the full game on the table.
2017/05/10 21:45:44
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Let's see. I have 20 Sternguard, 5 of which have Combi Meltas and 5 of which will have Combi Grav or Combi Plasma (haven't decided yet). This is going to be awesome. My three Tactical Squads have Combi Meltas and Meltaguns x2 and Combi Plasma and Plasmagun x1. Again, this'll be a blast. I cut the Combi Plasmas off my Command Squad and put Plasmaguns in their place a while ago. I guess I will be reversing that as there is really no reason to keep the plain Plasmaguns, especially on a Crimson Fists force.
I can't decide, but I might remove the Boltguns from my Scout Sergeants and give them a Combi Weapon. Probably Combi Flamers since they ride in LSS with a Heavy Flamer.
My Blood Angels having Combi Flamers on the Tactical Sergeants is even better now.
One thing that seems like it might be a good idea is to give a character like a Captain a Combi-Melta. Even if you can't charge after firing a rapid fire weapon, you could still default to firing the Meltagun portion.
The change to Twin-linked makes Razorbacks a little crazy. Twin-linked assault cannons everywhere! Even the TL Heavy Bolter seems like it is going to be good. The TL Lascannon variant might also be good now that it has double the shots. Having multiples of the Lascannons driving around is better than a Devastator Squad.
Dreadnoughts with TL Lascannons just got bumped up into the better version as well.
Overall, this is a great addition to MY armies, but I worry about the impact it will have on the game. I guess I better prepare myself for stuff costing a ton more.
Oh, and Centurions are going to be great. Even the base model with heavy bolters and hurricane bolters are going to put a ton of shots into stuff. And if Crimson Fists still get a bonus to firing Boltguns, bikes just became amazing for me. I might be needing to get a few.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/10 21:49:23
So the D6 on the Battlecannon is HITS not SHOTS? Roll to hit, if you do, roll a D6 on the unit for the number of models hit? Anyone else reading it that way?
That seems like an appropriate way to read that response, though I would take that with a grain of salt.
Other sources (including, IIRC, FLG, who were playtesting this edition) have suggests its merely the number of shots, and that you still have to roll to-hit as normal.
But IF its auto-hits and not merely shots... well, that would boost the effectiveness of a Battlecannon significantly.
(I'm guessing it isn't, since blast weapons traditionally had a to-hit equivalent, Scatter Dice, where templates did not)
I was wondering if it was a single shot that you'd roll to hit that would then turn into D6 hits on a successful hit. But that might make too much sense.
It maths out to being pretty much exactly the same, one is just swingy-er
2017/05/10 21:48:29
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
So the D6 on the Battlecannon is HITS not SHOTS? Roll to hit, if you do, roll a D6 on the unit for the number of models hit? Anyone else reading it that way?
That seems like an appropriate way to read that response, though I would take that with a grain of salt.
Other sources (including, IIRC, FLG, who were playtesting this edition) have suggests its merely the number of shots, and that you still have to roll to-hit as normal.
But IF its auto-hits and not merely shots... well, that would boost the effectiveness of a Battlecannon significantly.
(I'm guessing it isn't, since blast weapons traditionally had a to-hit equivalent, Scatter Dice, where templates did not)
I was wondering if it was a single shot that you'd roll to hit that would then turn into D6 hits on a successful hit. But that might make too much sense.
It maths out to being pretty much exactly the same, one is just swingy-er
Fair enough.
2017/05/10 21:48:55
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
JohnHwangDD wrote: BTW, against the same W1 targets, the Heavy Bolter is basically about as good as the Battlecannon, killing 0.8 SMs, where the BC kills 1 - a mere 20% difference. How is that acceptable?
If the Battlecannon started at 2d6 shots for Large Blast, that might be acceptable.
It's just a different gun now. Wait until Orks get 2 wounds...
JohnHwangDD wrote: BTW, against the same W1 targets, the Heavy Bolter is basically about as good as the Battlecannon, killing 0.8 SMs, where the BC kills 1 - a mere 20% difference. How is that acceptable?
If the Battlecannon started at 2d6 shots for Large Blast, that might be acceptable.
No it isn't. 3(1/2)(2/3)(1/2)=0.5 wounds. It's about half as good as a battlecannon, which does ~0.97.
This, too. We have to be careful when comparing our ballistic skill calculations.
Orks are getting 2 wounds confirmed.
2017/05/10 21:52:49
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
casvalremdeikun wrote: Let's see. I have 20 Sternguard, 5 of which have Combi Meltas and 5 of which will have Combi Grav or Combi Plasma (haven't decided yet). This is going to be awesome. My three Tactical Squads have Combi Meltas and Meltaguns x2 and Combi Plasma and Plasmagun x1. Again, this'll be a blast. I cut the Combi Plasmas off my Command Squad and put Plasmaguns in their place a while ago. I guess I will be reversing that as there is really no reason to keep the plain Plasmaguns, especially on a Crimson Fists force.
I can't decide, but I might remove the Boltguns from my Scout Sergeants and give them a Combi Weapon. Probably Combi Flamers since they ride in LSS with a Heavy Flamer.
My Blood Angels having Combi Flamers on the Tactical Sergeants is even better now.
One thing that seems like it might be a good idea is to give a character like a Captain a Combi-Melta. Even if you can't charge after firing a rapid fire weapon, you could still default to firing the Meltagun portion.
The change to Twin-linked makes Razorbacks a little crazy. Twin-linked assault cannons everywhere! Even the TL Heavy Bolter seems like it is going to be good. The TL Lascannon variant might also be good now that it has double the shots. Having multiples of the Lascannons driving around is better than a Devastator Squad.
Dreadnoughts with TL Lascannons just got bumped up into the better version as well.
Overall, this is a great addition to MY armies, but I worry about the impact it will have on the game. I guess I better prepare myself for stuff costing a ton more.
Oh, and Centurions are going to be great. Even the base model with heavy bolters and hurricane bolters are going to put a ton of shots into stuff. And if Crimson Fists still get a bonus to firing Boltguns, bikes just became amazing for me. I might be needing to get a few.
As you say, points costs aren't going to stay the same. TL stuff will certainly get pricier in comparison to currently. We shall see!
2017/05/10 21:56:22
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Vaktathi wrote: Sure, but then you're also looking at rougly 600pt unit.
Nobody really knows this yet. We have no idea what units cost anymore in comparison to one another. It is a good idea to try and keep this in mind.
Point costs can make or break a lot of things and it is far too early to assume what anything will cost given how drastically everything has changed.
true, I was assuming current values for everything. That said, I would suspect most stuff to remain roughly the same, at least on a comparative level if nothing else. Anything is possible though.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2017/05/10 21:57:49
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Speaking of pricier, combi-weapons are also almost certainly going to get more expensive (by definition, as or more expensive than the special weapon they represent, since by default they can fire as that special weapon every single round in a way that is indistinguishable from simply having that special weapon, AND they have options beyond that).
2017/05/10 22:03:28
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
casvalremdeikun wrote: Let's see. I have 20 Sternguard, 5 of which have Combi Meltas and 5 of which will have Combi Grav or Combi Plasma (haven't decided yet). This is going to be awesome. My three Tactical Squads have Combi Meltas and Meltaguns x2 and Combi Plasma and Plasmagun x1. Again, this'll be a blast. I cut the Combi Plasmas off my Command Squad and put Plasmaguns in their place a while ago. I guess I will be reversing that as there is really no reason to keep the plain Plasmaguns, especially on a Crimson Fists force.
I can't decide, but I might remove the Boltguns from my Scout Sergeants and give them a Combi Weapon. Probably Combi Flamers since they ride in LSS with a Heavy Flamer.
My Blood Angels having Combi Flamers on the Tactical Sergeants is even better now.
One thing that seems like it might be a good idea is to give a character like a Captain a Combi-Melta. Even if you can't charge after firing a rapid fire weapon, you could still default to firing the Meltagun portion.
The change to Twin-linked makes Razorbacks a little crazy. Twin-linked assault cannons everywhere! Even the TL Heavy Bolter seems like it is going to be good. The TL Lascannon variant might also be good now that it has double the shots. Having multiples of the Lascannons driving around is better than a Devastator Squad.
Dreadnoughts with TL Lascannons just got bumped up into the better version as well.
Overall, this is a great addition to MY armies, but I worry about the impact it will have on the game. I guess I better prepare myself for stuff costing a ton more.
Oh, and Centurions are going to be great. Even the base model with heavy bolters and hurricane bolters are going to put a ton of shots into stuff. And if Crimson Fists still get a bonus to firing Boltguns, bikes just became amazing for me. I might be needing to get a few.
As you say, points costs aren't going to stay the same. TL stuff will certainly get pricier in comparison to currently. We shall see!
I certainly hope so, because otherwise there is no reason to take a special weapon when there is an option for a Combi. The change to Twin-linked is still good for me since the rerolls on Boltgun type Weapons were lost on my Fists.
Unusual Suspect wrote: Speaking of pricier, combi-weapons are also almost certainly going to get more expensive (by definition, as or more expensive than the special weapon they represent, since by default they can fire as that special weapon every single round in a way that is indistinguishable from simply having that special weapon, AND they have options beyond that).
I'm thinking they'll be the cost of the special weapon at least, if not a special weapon plus bolter combined.
2017/05/10 22:10:23
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2 / New FB summary
RoninXiC wrote: People... please dont get super hyped about random X vehicle or unit... point costs are a big unknown. A Lemon Russ for 100 points is something completely different to one for 75 or 150 or 200 or 300.
Evaluating isolated rules with no clue about how the rest of the game works is our specialty!
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2017/05/10 22:11:38
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition - Summary (all info in OP) 10th May 17 - Weapons Part 2
Unusual Suspect wrote: Speaking of pricier, combi-weapons are also almost certainly going to get more expensive (by definition, as or more expensive than the special weapon they represent, since by default they can fire as that special weapon every single round in a way that is indistinguishable from simply having that special weapon, AND they have options beyond that).
I'm thinking they'll be the cost of the special weapon at least, if not a special weapon plus bolter combined.
If I had to throw a number at it, they will probably cost 20 pts for Grav and Plasma, 15 for Flamer and Melta. Melta might be in the 20 pts spot since they are much better now that they can hurt creatures just as well as vehicles.
Is it me or are just really not understanding people's worry about melee units not making it to combat? I mean it honestly doesn't matter what a melee weapon does if the units carrying are never going to make it across the table.
I honestly haven't seen anything that makes horde armies viable, just a lot that makes them worse.
Well for one, it looks like we can assault from transports now, and for two, casualties are no longer taken from the front (unless you want them to be), and for three we haven't seen things like Tyranid movement yet.
~4100
~1660
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 
