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in AOS you dont pay for unit upgrades, you take what you want.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am liking what I am seeing. We can infer the regular Power Weapon profiles from what is listed, which makes me want to remove some of the weapons on my Honour Guard now that swords are better than Axes against T7 or above. Makes me wonder what Relic Blades will be like.

The Flamer profile stating that it hits automatically is good. I was worried how they were going to differentiate Flamers from Blasts. Looks like blasts are similar, but you still roll to hit.

It also looks like bigger units will be cheaper than larger units. Makes me less worried about my two 10-man Sternguard Squads.

We knew flamer profile before.

And as for points note base cost has mandatory psyker that will be throwing reliably mortal wounds. Obviously you need to pay for him' sternguard has mandatory powerfull leader?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 flakpanzer wrote:
So Power is the new points...But no point cost for adding a heavy weapon or Icon?

Didn't they mention a grittier point system in the first Q&A?

Power =/= Points.

Power seems to have been designed to be used as a rough comparison in open/Narrative games, not matched.

We don't know about points yet.

If it works like points it's points even if it's called stones. Aos has simar system and they are points as well

 Latro_ wrote:
The one thing i am getting from that dataslate is they'v thought about that unit.

They'v gone fluffly.. a TS sorcerer would be faster hes still alive the normal TS's move like terminators now do, slower.

they'v put a simple mechanic for the +1 save if dam1 to represent them only getting hurt badly if blown apart

etc etc

Now if they have put this level of attention into one unit from one faction consider if they have done this for everything mind-explode

I'll guarantee it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nintura wrote:
Interesting that you dont seem to have to pay anything for upgrades. Even power level points. So Soul Reaper is free. you should always take it.

You will pay for it in matched play.

 kestral wrote:
Power = Points? Why would they have two systems?

Come on people, we were already informed on this over a week ago. 40k will have narrative/open play and matched/competitive play, with
a) narrative/open only having rough "power levels" to roughly eveluate the worth of a unit, with equipment not factoring into that (which was specifically mentioned by GW, they even called it 'units will have relative power levels/ratings' back then).
b) competitive/matched play will have point costs like before, INCLUDING equipment and all upgrades/items (also confirmed by GW).

It's pretty obvious this warscroll belongs to a) because the unit size upgrades even outright state that they cause an increase in POWER RATINGS.

You guys are literally turning the assumption of one poster (same with matched play point costs and warscolls not being free) into a fact and panicking over nothing.
If you don't believe me and don't want to dig up statements by Pete Foley (I think it was originally stated in their live stream Q&A) just wait for the Facebook responses the inevitable questions regarding that by panicking players that are not keeping themselves up to date with information. Or just wait for tomorrow's article.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch but I think it was still worth stating again.

Already covered.

Also RTFA, people.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am liking what I am seeing. We can infer the regular Power Weapon profiles from what is listed, which makes me want to remove some of the weapons on my Honour Guard now that swords are better than Axes against T7 or above. Makes me wonder what Relic Blades will be like.

The Flamer profile stating that it hits automatically is good. I was worried how they were going to differentiate Flamers from Blasts. Looks like blasts are similar, but you still roll to hit.

It also looks like bigger units will be cheaper than larger units. Makes me less worried about my two 10-man Sternguard Squads.

A Str4 model with an axe is better than a str4 model with a sword against T8, T9 but not T10. -3AP over -2AP doesn't cancel out the sword wounding on 6's and the axe wounding on 5's.

A Str4 model with a sword is always better than the same with an axe against T6, T7 and T3.

A Str4 model with an axe will always be better than the same with a sword against certain T4/T5 save combinations.

POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I am liking what I am seeing. We can infer the regular Power Weapon profiles from what is listed, which makes me want to remove some of the weapons on my Honour Guard now that swords are better than Axes against T7 or above. Makes me wonder what Relic Blades will be like.

The Flamer profile stating that it hits automatically is good. I was worried how they were going to differentiate Flamers from Blasts. Looks like blasts are similar, but you still roll to hit.

It also looks like bigger units will be cheaper than larger units. Makes me less worried about my two 10-man Sternguard Squads.

We knew flamer profile before.

And as for points note base cost has mandatory psyker that will be throwing reliably mortal wounds. Obviously you need to pay for him' sternguard has mandatory powerfull leader?

I don't know why I forgot that the Flamer was already listed and had the auto-correct rule on it. You are right with the Sorcerer messing up how to calculate points. Oh well. I hope combat Squads are still a thing so I can split the two ten man Squads in half.

So no grenades? And I'm assuming that means charging through cover doesn't mean anything?
Also rubrics w heavy and rapid fire might not be able to shoot and charge the same turn.

Good catch on the 'no grenades'. Very interesting.

gungo wrote:
So no grenades? And I'm assuming that means charging through cover doesn't mean anything?
Also rubrics w heavy and rapid fire might not be able to shoot and charge the same turn.

TS never had grenades before..

 Latro_ wrote:
POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

Ah yes. Rename thing and it's not same.

What's the difference except one is more granular? Granularity is not requirement for being points as aos shows.


40k has two point systems. Whats so hard about it?

I bet there won't be any restriction on charging and firing, even heavy weapons. Saves time, faster game, kill more.

 Latro_ wrote:
POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

MY POINT STILL STANDS. YOU CAN TYPE IN GIANT LETTERS TOO I SEE. MY POINT WAS YOU STILL DIDN'T PAY FOR UPGRADES EVEN IN NARATIVE PLAY. ONE PERSON ASKS A QUESTION AND GETS SMARTASS RESPONSES FROM 4 OR 5 PEOPLE WHO ALL ACT LIKE THIS PERSON READ THE RESPONSES AND THEN REPLIED WHEN IN REALITY THEY MAY HAVE BEEN TYPING THEIR QUESTION WHILE YOU ALREADY RESPONDED AND NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY READ IT. TIMING IS EVERYTHING, BACK OFF. NOT EVERYONE HAS PLAYED AOS AND UNDERSTANDS WHAT GW SAYS IN THEIR ARTICLES. ANYTHING ELSE?

tneva82 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

Ah yes. Rename thing and it's not same.

What's the difference except one is more granular? Granularity is not requirement for being points as aos shows.


40k has two point systems. Whats so hard about it?

Because using the same word to talk about two distinct play styles is confusing. Why not just use the right word so there's clarity?

I am a bit worried that this datasheet doesn't have matched play points, It would be really annoying if you'd have check them from some other source. It is already mildly annoying for AoS* but it would be super annoying with a detailed point system with costs for every item etc.

(* Though there mainly because the min unit size in the warscroll and the min unit size you can actually buy with points are often not the same.)

 nintura wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

MY POINT STILL STANDS. YOU CAN TYPE IN GIANT LETTERS TOO I SEE. MY POINT WAS YOU STILL DIDN'T PAY FOR UPGRADES EVEN IN NARATIVE PLAY. ONE PERSON ASKS A QUESTION AND GETS SMARTASS RESPONSES FROM 4 OR 5 PEOPLE WHO ALL ACT LIKE THIS PERSON READ THE RESPONSES AND THEN REPLIED WHEN IN REALITY THEY MAY HAVE BEEN TYPING THEIR QUESTION WHILE YOU ALREADY RESPONDED AND NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY READ IT. TIMING IS EVERYTHING, BACK OFF. NOT EVERYONE HAS PLAYED AOS AND UNDERSTANDS WHAT GW SAYS IN THEIR ARTICLES. ANYTHING ELSE?

To stop this back and forth rant, I have one question for you. Why did you ask a question about a new article without first reading the article? You read the forum thought on the article (which posted a screenshot) but didn't have time to actually read the article? If true, you got what you deserved.

 kestral wrote:
I bet there won't be any restriction on charging and firing, even heavy weapons. Saves time, faster game, kill more.

I dunno assault weapons still exist and that would be a useless keywordof it did absolutely nothing different from other range weapons.

 Crimson wrote:
I am a bit worried that this datasheet doesn't have matched play points, It would be really annoying if you'd have check them from some other source. It is already mildly Annoying for AoS* but it would be super annoying with a detailed point system with costs for every item etc.

(* Though there mainly because the min unit size in the warscroll and the min unit size you can actually buy with points are often not the same.)

They could all be on a single quick reference sheet in the back of your factions book. Or as someone said earlier, it could be GW expects you to download a free app or something.

 nintura wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

MY POINT STILL STANDS. YOU CAN TYPE IN GIANT LETTERS TOO I SEE. MY POINT WAS YOU STILL DIDN'T PAY FOR UPGRADES EVEN IN NARATIVE PLAY. ONE PERSON ASKS A QUESTION AND GETS SMARTASS RESPONSES FROM 4 OR 5 PEOPLE WHO ALL ACT LIKE THIS PERSON READ THE RESPONSES AND THEN REPLIED WHEN IN REALITY THEY MAY HAVE BEEN TYPING THEIR QUESTION WHILE YOU ALREADY RESPONDED AND NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY READ IT. TIMING IS EVERYTHING, BACK OFF. NOT EVERYONE HAS PLAYED AOS AND UNDERSTANDS WHAT GW SAYS IN THEIR ARTICLES. ANYTHING ELSE?

how did you get the text that big? it wouldn't do it for me.

 Crimson wrote:
I am a bit worried that this datasheet doesn't have matched play points, It would be really annoying if you'd have check them from some other source. It is already mildly Annoying for AoS* but it would be super annoying with a detailed point system with costs for every item etc.

(* Though there mainly because the min unit size in the warscroll and the min unit size you can actually buy with points are often not the same.)

The advantage, of course, is that they can print yearly points updates in one book and not force a reprint of every army book that gets affected.

Except that I read the article. I mentioned that it looked like you get the upgrades for free with no cost to power points. Probably because A: I mentioned power points, not point cost. And B, I've never played AOS so I have no clue how those actually work or that in AOS all upgrades can be taken for free.

 Crimson wrote:
I am a bit worried that this datasheet doesn't have matched play points, It would be really annoying if you'd have check them from some other source. It is already mildly Annoying for AoS* but it would be super annoying with a detailed point system with costs for every item etc.

(* Though there mainly because the min unit size in the warscroll and the min unit size you can actually buy with points are often not the same.)

Since you have to pay for matched points no surprise. Now MAYBE paid book has datasheet with those but that's big if

 nintura wrote:

They could all be on a single quick reference sheet in the back of your factions book. Or as someone said earlier, it could be GW expects you to download a free app or something.

They could, but then it kinda defeats the point of having all the weapons and rules on the datasheet in the first place, if you still have to flip back and fort anyway.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

A Str4 model with an axe is better than a str4 model with a sword against T8, T9 but not T10. -3AP over -2AP doesn't cancel out the sword wounding on 6's and the axe wounding on 5's.

A Str4 model with a sword is always better than the same with an axe against T6, T7 and T3.

A Str4 model with an axe will always be better than the same with a sword against certain T4/T5 save combinations.

 Crimson wrote:
I am a bit worried that this datasheet doesn't have matched play points, It would be really annoying if you'd have check them from some other source. It is already mildly Annoying for AoS* but it would be super annoying with a detailed point system with costs for every item etc.

(* Though there mainly because the min unit size in the warscroll and the min unit size you can actually buy with points are often not the same.)

If you read the article they said they'd discuss points tomorrow, they most likely left the points off of this one on purpose to not take focus away from the unit/weapon/rules on the sheet itself

Guys, they're discussing points tomorrow, i wouldn't assume anything about free upgrades or not based off of this sheet, the sheet is to just show a sheet in general so you're familiar with the layout.

gungo wrote:

 kestral wrote:
I bet there won't be any restriction on charging and firing, even heavy weapons. Saves time, faster game, kill more.

I dunno assault weapons still exist and that would be a useless keywordof it did absolutely nothing different from other range weapons.

Rapid fire doubles shots at half range so there is that

theocracity wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I am a bit worried that this datasheet doesn't have matched play points, It would be really annoying if you'd have check them from some other source. It is already mildly Annoying for AoS* but it would be super annoying with a detailed point system with costs for every item etc.

(* Though there mainly because the min unit size in the warscroll and the min unit size you can actually buy with points are often not the same.)

The advantage, of course, is that they can print yearly points updates in one book and not force a reprint of every army book that gets affected.

That's a good point. They are wanting to make everything modular. And reprinting one book every year beats every codex every year. Hell, it could be a free download for all we know down the road. Or they could be updated more often.

 Crimson wrote:
I am a bit worried that this datasheet doesn't have matched play points, It would be really annoying if you'd have check them from some other source. It is already mildly Annoying for AoS* but it would be super annoying with a detailed point system with costs for every item etc.

(* Though there mainly because the min unit size in the warscroll and the min unit size you can actually buy with points are often not the same.)

That'll absolutely happen, it's a feature of the system they're going for. Points all together in a single book for all factions in the game, so they can be updated yearly without impacting the codex's or datasheets that already exist. The other option is to reprint EVERY book every year, which is a non starter.

So yeah, you'll have to deal with points in a different place to the datasheets. But with army builder software galore out there, i think the benefits (yearly updates to points for balance purposes) far outweigh the disadvantages.

 Crimson wrote:

 nintura wrote:

They could all be on a single quick reference sheet in the back of your factions book. Or as someone said earlier, it could be GW expects you to download a free app or something.

They could, but then it kinda defeats the point of having all the weapons and rules on the datasheet in the first place, if you still have to flip back and fort anyway.

Only if you dont know the rules for your weargear. Personally I'd rather have it all on "cards". An army wide quick ref sheet, then cards for each unit with their rules. Basically a mini-dex that I can keep with me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Latro_ wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

MY POINT STILL STANDS. YOU CAN TYPE IN GIANT LETTERS TOO I SEE. MY POINT WAS YOU STILL DIDN'T PAY FOR UPGRADES EVEN IN NARATIVE PLAY. ONE PERSON ASKS A QUESTION AND GETS SMARTASS RESPONSES FROM 4 OR 5 PEOPLE WHO ALL ACT LIKE THIS PERSON READ THE RESPONSES AND THEN REPLIED WHEN IN REALITY THEY MAY HAVE BEEN TYPING THEIR QUESTION WHILE YOU ALREADY RESPONDED AND NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY READ IT. TIMING IS EVERYTHING, BACK OFF. NOT EVERYONE HAS PLAYED AOS AND UNDERSTANDS WHAT GW SAYS IN THEIR ARTICLES. ANYTHING ELSE?

how did you get the text that big? it wouldn't do it for me.

I spent 12 years in the army. I'm really, really good at yelling

No but seriously, I selected Giant text.