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As expected, it looks like for the majority of situations, you'll want a force axe over the stave, and the sword just seems surprisingly poor. Interesting.

tneva82 wrote:

gungo wrote:

 kestral wrote:
I bet there won't be any restriction on charging and firing, even heavy weapons. Saves time, faster game, kill more.

I dunno assault weapons still exist and that would be a useless keywordof it did absolutely nothing different from other range weapons.

Rapid fire doubles shots at half range so there is that

Ya that's good for rapid fire keyword but assault keyword means nothing and it doesn't fit with the current design of every label means something

Eyjio wrote:
As expected, it looks like for the majority of situations, you'll want a force axe over the stave, and the sword just seems surprisingly poor. Interesting.

Check the individual charts. The sword maintains a higher average through T7.

gungo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

gungo wrote:

 kestral wrote:
I bet there won't be any restriction on charging and firing, even heavy weapons. Saves time, faster game, kill more.

I dunno assault weapons still exist and that would be a useless keywordof it did absolutely nothing different from other range weapons.

Rapid fire doubles shots at half range so there is that

Ya that's good for rapid fire keyword but assault keyword means nothing and it doesn't fit with the current design of every label means something

That is true so guess there is something. No charge remains with rapid fire? Something else? Hmm.

 nintura wrote:

Spoiler:

 Coyote81 wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
POWER DOES NOT MEAN POINTS

POWER = GENERAL SYSTEM FOR NARATIVE
POINTS = NORMAL POINTS, NOT DISCUSSED YET BY GW

thought i'd make it clear since no one is readying the multiple replies to these posts

MY POINT STILL STANDS. YOU CAN TYPE IN GIANT LETTERS TOO I SEE. MY POINT WAS YOU STILL DIDN'T PAY FOR UPGRADES EVEN IN NARATIVE PLAY. ONE PERSON ASKS A QUESTION AND GETS SMARTASS RESPONSES FROM 4 OR 5 PEOPLE WHO ALL ACT LIKE THIS PERSON READ THE RESPONSES AND THEN REPLIED WHEN IN REALITY THEY MAY HAVE BEEN TYPING THEIR QUESTION WHILE YOU ALREADY RESPONDED AND NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY READ IT. TIMING IS EVERYTHING, BACK OFF. NOT EVERYONE HAS PLAYED AOS AND UNDERSTANDS WHAT GW SAYS IN THEIR ARTICLES. ANYTHING ELSE?

To stop this back and forth rant, I have one question for you. Why did you ask a question about a new article without first reading the article? You read the forum thought on the article (which posted a screenshot) but didn't have time to actually read the article? If true, you got what you deserved.

Except that I read the article. I mentioned that it looked like you get the upgrades for free with no cost to power points. Probably because A: I mentioned power points, not point cost. And B, I've never played AOS so I have no clue how those actually work or that in AOS all upgrades can be taken for free.

Pages 148 to 152 of this thread cover it very well.

Power is for Narrative and Open play
Points will be for matched play, and will be similar to what your used to from 40k. A tac squad costs 75 points, with 13 points per additional dude and 10 points for a missile launcher, and so forth.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

A Str4 model with an axe is better than a str4 model with a sword against T8, T9 but not T10. -3AP over -2AP doesn't cancel out the sword wounding on 6's and the axe wounding on 5's.

A Str4 model with a sword is always better than the same with an axe against T6, T7 and T3.

A Str4 model with an axe will always be better than the same with a sword against certain T4/T5 save combinations.

What's the Y axis?
My brain isn't working well at the moment.
Invulnerable saves are gonna mix things up in T4/T5 too, there's no point in taking a sword over an axe against 2+/4++ or 3+/5++ or straight 5+

Daedalus81 wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
As expected, it looks like for the majority of situations, you'll want a force axe over the stave, and the sword just seems surprisingly poor. Interesting.

Check the individual charts. The sword maintains a higher average through T7.

Spoiler:

I do really like that the sword/axe/staff all are better at different break points due to the new Str vs T table.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:


What's the Y axis?
My brain isn't working well at the moment.
Invulnerable saves are gonna mix things up in T4/T5 too, there's no point in taking a sword over an axe against 2+/4++ or 3+/5++ or straight 5+

Average wounds caused.

That will depend heavily on whether or not we can take both saves, but I would expect them to be fairly rare unlike with Rubrics.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
As expected, it looks like for the majority of situations, you'll want a force axe over the stave, and the sword just seems surprisingly poor. Interesting.

Check the individual charts. The sword maintains a higher average through T7.

I'm not sure T7 is going to be the issue though. I sort of feel like if you've charged something above T5, something has likely gone badly wrong. Performance between T3-5 seems much more important IMO, as that's where most infantry fights will likely be. I don't think it's a huge issue which one is picked ultimately, but my guess is that we'll be seeing more axes than anything else (if people can be bothered to change models for marginal gain).

Ultimately the choice of power weapon will best be made based on if you're building a general TAC list or tailoring for a local meta.

I'm glad all the options look like they have a purpose and role.

Kriswall wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Rolled into Codex: Tau Empire?

Yes.

Go look at the Age of Sigmar books/warscolls page on the GW website.

Sigmarines got a whole new Battletome to cover Sigmarines who ride mounts. So... yeah, I did look and it sure looks like AoS supplemental materials are a thing. Also, I have Orruks who don't wear armor in one Battletome and Orruks who do in another. I don't have Battletome: Orruks. I don't know why you'd think that Codex: Tau Empire would include Tau groups who aren't part of the Tau Empire. Codex: Tau Empire and Codex: Farsight Enclaves would more accurately represent what we see in AoS.

You're working off some old information there, Kris. Starting with Sylvaneth, GW figured out a better way to do battletomes. They redid the Stormcast and Khorne Bloodbound rules by combining the original material with the new rules that had come out since then for Stormast (including the "Sigmarines who ride mounts") and combing the Bloodbound with Khorne Daemons, both in books that were cheaper then the original release. They actually seem to be intent on reducing the number of battletomes they have to release by recombining like "factions". When Death and Destruction armies get updates in the future, I fully expect them to combine some forces back together. I expect Deathrattle and Deadwalkers to be combined as well as Greenskins and Bonesplittas. I would honestly be shocked if Farsight Enclaves wasn't just a specific way of building Tau as far as rules are concerned.

Ok I see. Against all saves..

T3, Sword >> Axe = Mace
T4, Axe > Sword > Mace
T5, Mace >= Axe >> Sword
T6, Sword = Mace > Axe
T7, Sword > Axe > Mace
T8, Axe > Mace > Sword
T9, Axe > Mace > Sword
T10, Mace > Sword > Axe

Assuming Str4 yeah?

Hmmm... Matchet Points will be free on the internet, just like AoS, thats I'm sure, so people that only want to play with points and datasheets will be able to do so. The Generals HandBook has the rules for the 3 modes of play, but really, once you know them, you can go basically with the "battletome" for you faction. If I remember correctly, they include too in AoS the point costs of things and even the rules of the game.

A shame that Tactical Marines and Rubric Marines have only 1 wound and not 2. In AoS, normal Chaos Warriors have now 2 wounds, but I suppose they have leaved that to the Nu-marines.

Lord Kragan wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Nice profile.

As for how AoS is set up, you can buy the generals handbook to play, but you want to buy your faction battletome to get full use.

The battletome is your standard codex price, but contains fluff, all stats, plus command traits, special faction wargrear, faction spells, missions, etc.

For example; I play Blades of Khorne. I could use just generals handbook, got my points and warscrolls and play, but im missing out on relics for war gear a leader can take, spells my bloodpriests can cast, special commands they can do etc.

I can only take 1 piece of relic gear though, same with commands for my leader model. Spells as assigned rando or picked. (all of it can be rando actually). But spells can only be casted once a turn. So if I had 4 guys with arcane bolt, after I cast it once, or fail that's it. No more bolts. so it makes you want to spread your spells out

Actually battletomes are cheaper than codexes. Your average codex costs between 33 to 39 euros for softcover. AoS battletomes are 20-25 euros, those that are post-GHB (which are the ones worth taking if you want them for the rules).

Right. Blades of Khorne was 40$ USD

SeanDrake wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Nice profile.

As for how AoS is set up, you can buy the generals handbook to play, but you want to buy your faction battletome to get full use.

The battletome is your standard codex price, but contains fluff, all stats, plus command traits, special faction wargrear, faction spells, missions, etc.

For example; I play Blades of Khorne. I could use just generals handbook, got my points and warscrolls and play, but im missing out on relics for war gear a leader can take, spells my bloodpriests can cast, special commands they can do etc.

I can only take 1 piece of relic gear though, same with commands for my leader model. Spells as assigned rando or picked. (all of it can be rando actually). But spells can only be casted once a turn. So if I had 4 guys with arcane bolt, after I cast it once, or fail that's it. No more bolts. so it makes you want to spread your spells out

Is that not only true for a couple of armies though as they only just started doing proper codexs. Hence Sigmarines getting a replacement after 2 years to add all the content missing since launch.

So Khorne,Sigmarines and Squats have full codexs. Tzeentch has the options split over mortal and Demons so have less options individually. Finally Sylvanath we're the first try at a proper codexs so has options but not as many as the newest codexs.

Everything else has gimped armies with few of the options avaiable to the newer armies.

Right. Only a few of the armies have Battletomes out currently. Sylvaneth have same amount of options as the other codexes. They are not "out of date" because they were the first book.

The generals handbook has "General" bonus rules for armies that are "Order, Destruction, Death, Chaos" but nothing very specific to your faction. I also think the Wild Oruks got a book (though I don't know if it has special stuff) and same with Beastclaw Raiders got a book (again no idea on special gear, abilities, spells specific to them)

So in short, yes. In AoS if your army doesent have a Battletome, you are "gimped" as in you don't have all the army specific stuff Sigmar, Khorne, Squats, and Tree people have. Im sure the goal is to release them as they progress the events/story but its a slow go as its all 40k soon and really the rest of the year im sure besides a few releases here and there.

This would/could be a concern unless they release a lot of 8th Edition "Battletomes" all at once for the armies. If they do a stagger like Space Marines, then Nurgle, etc the armies with books will be on a higher playing level then the armies without. Not to say armies without Battletomes in AoS are trash, just not as many options

Eyjio wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
As expected, it looks like for the majority of situations, you'll want a force axe over the stave, and the sword just seems surprisingly poor. Interesting.

Check the individual charts. The sword maintains a higher average through T7.

I'm not sure T7 is going to be the issue though. I sort of feel like if you've charged something above T5, something has likely gone badly wrong. Performance between T3-5 seems much more important IMO, as that's where most infantry fights will likely be. I don't think it's a huge issue which one is picked ultimately, but my guess is that we'll be seeing more axes than anything else (if people can be bothered to change models for marginal gain).

As far as rubrics go I have the hardest time facing things like daemon princes in combat. The MEQs I just shoot into oblivion.

New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Ok I see. Against all saves..

T3, Sword >> Axe = Mace
T4, Axe > Sword > Mace
T5, Mace >= Axe >> Sword
T6, Sword = Mace > Axe
T7, Sword > Axe > Mace
T8, Axe > Mace > Sword
T9, Axe > Mace > Sword
T10, Mace > Sword > Axe

Assuming Str4 yeah?

Yea, ideally you look for the gaps, like this...

So when comparing the sword to the staff the black areas are where the sword is better (before T7) and red is where the staff is better. This gives you a quick visual that shows the black areas encompass more space than red so overall that weapon will be a better choice in that range.

Note: I overdid it on the second black section.

NOTE!

AN IMPORTANT PART OF RULE #1:

Please remember that posting and reading online is a visual format and as such the spelling, grammar and look of your posts is the only way others understand what you are saying. Therefore, in order to be polite, all users are expected to make an effort to use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation and should refrain from using internet shorthand or other distracting methods of writing, such as writing a post completely bolded, with capital letters, in a strange color, etc.

IN OTHER WORDS - KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE GIANT COLOR TEXT.

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

As a Farsight Enclaves player, I'm already looking forward to my Fusion Blades.

To be fair, in AoS it's not like you need to be one of the new factions to make a competitive list.

Just using the standard bonus from your grand alliance you can make a lot of good lists. I have won a lot of games with my Seraphon, and they have no allegiance bonuse so far.

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Hm...not a lot of substance but enough to make some things look pretty decent.

Oh my god. I think Eldar are gonna be the "Mortal Wound" spam army... talk about Eldar being nerfed *


*Dramatization. The facts written here may have no relation with reality after all the rules are released

I’d be remiss, though, not to mention the man himself: the Avatar of Khaine. With an ability that means he can even ignore some mortal wounds

Just wait for H.B.M.C to see this. Special Rules to ignore normal rules, and Special Rules to ignore Special Rules that ignore normal rules.

I would like to call shenanigans on the Wailing Doom. It sounds horrible, it will make all my models die, and I emphatically dislike it.

GW please nerf

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Anyone else getting a little tired of the 'every option is viable now!' spiel?

I'm sure it's been shaken up and units that sucked might now be better, but inevitably there will be no brainer choices better than others which will just not be viable.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Hm...not a lot of substance but enough to make some things look pretty decent.

Makes me think the Avatar is really going to be a nasty piece of work.

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

I hope the promises live up and we'll see more than Scatterbike/Spider/WK spam on the table.

 Grinshanks wrote:

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

Anyone else getting a little tired of the 'every option is viable now!' spiel?

I'm sure it's been shaken up and units that sucked might now be better, but inevitably there will be no brainer choices better than others which will just not be viable.

I'm more tired to these h2g units rock without explaining how. Here shows big nasty weapon. Ok? Sure he kills but lack of killiness has never been problem in h2h

Requizen wrote:

 nintura wrote:
New Eldar stuff up on the community site. The wailing doom is a melta melee weapon. Jesus.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/11/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-eldar/

I hope the promises live up and we'll see more than Scatterbike/Spider/WK spam on the table.

Well, if the Avatar resembles anything like we see in the new statlines, being able to hit for d6 and rolling twice per hit and keeping highest, he's going to be a beast.

mandiblasters do mortal wounds??? Never imagined them as being specialized anti-titan weapons.

Hmmm...

Striking Scorpions particularly are just vicious combatants that will strike fear into your opponent and disrupt their battle plans with the Masters of Stealth special rule and their Mandiblasters softening up enemy units at the beginning of the Fight phase by dishing out mortal wounds.

Mortal Wounds - will they show up too often, ala AoS?

Howling Banshees get a new lease on life too. These girls are now faster than almost any other Infantry unit in the game, and nearly always get to go first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge.

And of course, there will always be 'exceptions to rules' and 'exceptions to exceptions', but will they show up too much as well?