flakpanzer wrote:So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:

"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?

Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."

If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?

 Kirasu wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.

The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.

Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.

It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.

Huh? Games workshop invented this absurd fluff with guilliman and cawl. They could have certainly made it more believable. He has exactly how many marines the gw writer puts on the paper...

The point, which was missed, is that there is no way in hell that guilliman should be able to accomplish the same task with LESS than 1% the troops. Hence internal consistency

 Kirasu wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.

The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.

Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.

It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.

Huh? Games workshop invented this absurd fluff with guilliman and cawl. They could have certainly made it more believable. He has exactly how many marines the gw writer puts on the paper...

The point, which was missed, is that there is no way in hell that guilliman should be able to accomplish the same task with LESS than 1% the troops. Hence internal consistency

 Kirasu wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Awesome, more incompatible fluff from writers unfamiliar with the backstory of the original great crusade. A dozen whole chapters? Wow 12000 marines are going to bring freedom to the Galaxy.

The great crusade had over 2 MILLION space marines with 18 primarch + The Emperor and countless imperial Navy and army troops that took over 200 years.

Guilliman himself led 250,000 marines and yet now using 5% of that is some kind of grand plan? Ugh.

It's not as if there is a large reserve of Space Marines. The galaxy went to hell, Guilliman is doing with what he has, and he doesn't have 2 million Space Marines.

Huh? Games workshop invented this absurd fluff with guilliman and cawl. They could have certainly made it more believable. He has exactly how many marines the gw writer puts on the paper...

The point, which was missed, is that there is no way in hell that guilliman should be able to accomplish the same task with LESS than 1% the troops. Hence internal consistency

 Leth wrote:
12000 ADDITIONAL troops, and all the regiments of the IG, and all of the existing space marine chapters, and all of the sisters detachments, and all of the inquisition resources, so on and so forth.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Sigh...it's not like we needed reminding that the Blood Angels are screwed, both in fluff and in game.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
I love the image of Guilliman walking in and saying "I need two million marines to save the imperirum" and getting "I can get you 12,000" from Cawl.

Cawl, the Rick Harrison of 40k.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

Edit: also, the presumption that the explicit wording that Fly grants the ability to fall back and shoot is just the article writer expressing himself poorly is hilarious.

Considering that when he did the CSM article people were saying that it was poorly written/expressed...it's not that bad of a presumption.

Also, again, "Fly" actually has something for us to compare it to with AoS.

Does AoS have a similar "retreat from combat" mechanic?

Warhammer Community "Movement" Article wrote:If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you! This does, however, open up a vast range of tactical options for armies like the Astra Militarum, who will now be able to effectively deploy in firing lines, with each row falling back from any assaults in good order (if they survived) while the unit behind them fires at the attackers. It goes both ways though – if you have a dedicated assault unit that specializes in killing infantry (like Warp Talons) your opponent will find it much harder to pin them down in combat with heavily armoured units for the entire game.

Age of Sigmar's rules wrote:
Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat. If you choose to retreat, the unit must end its move more than 3" away from all enemy units. If a unit retreats, then it can't shoot or charge later that turn.

Age of Sigmar's rules wrote:
If the warscroll for a model says that the model can fly, it can pass across models and scenery as if they were not there. It still may not finish the move within 3" of an enemy in the movement phase, and if it is already within 3" of an enemy it can only retreat or remain stationary.

If not, what could we possibly learn from AoS regarding that particular rules interaction?

Darting Attacks wrote:Gryph-Hounds attack in a series of darting strikes. Immediately after this unit attacks in the combat phase, roll a dice and move each model in the unit up to that many inches.

Wary Fighters wrote:When it is this unit's turn to pile in and attack, it can withdraw instead. Move each model in the unit up to 8", so that each one ends up at least 3" from the enemy.

On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.

 Ratius wrote:

On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.

Me confused. What side are they talking about? I.e. what segmentums?

Spoiler:

 Ratius wrote:

On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.

Me confused. What side are they talking about? I.e. what segmentums?

Spoiler:

Warhammer Community wrote:The Great Rift is a tear in reality that essentially divides the Imperium in half. Its emergence was a literal galaxy-shattering event, which threw the Imperium into chaos and ushered in new wars across nearly every world in the Imperium. So powerful and far was this storm that the very laws of physics fray at the edges as the inconsistencies of time fluctuations, once largely localised to larger storms such as the Eye of Terror, spread across the galaxy. Some worlds felt centuries go by in an instant while others were all but frozen in time, and still others have suffered constant temporal shifts.

None fully understand the origins of the rift – though there are many theories: the breach of the Cadian Gate, the sorcery of a Daemon Primarch, catastrophe in the Webway, mass bloodshed and fire in the Damocles Gulf – all may have caused or contributed to it. The rift is variously known by the cultures of the galaxy as the Crimson Path, the Mouth of Ruin, the Warpscar, the Dathedian, Gork’s Grin and a thousand other names besides. To the Imperium it is the Cicatrix Maledictum, or just the Great Rift. To those on the Terran side, it is a tainted scar across the sky. To those unfortunates on the far side, it is far worse…

 oni wrote:

Exactly!

To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines. All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.

...you’ve seen the Intercessors, ..., but there are plenty more on the way. And ...vehicles too
...some Chapters, ..., now have entire companies of these new warriors.
Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies.
...entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines.
Any ... Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines...

I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.

We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.

I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.

Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Ratius wrote:

On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.

Me confused. What side are they talking about? I.e. what segmentums?

Everything on the right of that rift so half of the ultramar segmentum, and segmentum obscurus.

Spoiler:

 nintura wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

 Ratius wrote:

On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.

Me confused. What side are they talking about? I.e. what segmentums?

Everything on the right of that rift so half of the ultramar segmentum, and segmentum obscurus.

Spoiler:

Im still trying to figure out why Malfactus in the upper right is just a big mouth.

flakpanzer wrote:So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:


I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.

We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.

I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.

Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.

 Galas wrote:
Did someone take seriously the numbers that 40k gives in their fluff?

Like the "Theres only 250.000 sisters of battle in the whole galaxy", when in a medieval battle you could have 200k soldiers in just one side, and normally, 40K battles are absurdly large.

The "Theres 1000 chapters of 1000 marines" is pretty absurd. Theres basically less marines than Imperial Planets.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 oni wrote:

Exactly!

To me, it's clear as day that GW intends on phasing out the Space Marines line in favor of the new hotness; Primaris Space Marines. All we have to do is read between the lines; look past their carefully crafted words. It's all right there in the FAQ.

...you’ve seen the Intercessors, ..., but there are plenty more on the way. And ...vehicles too
...some Chapters, ..., now have entire companies of these new warriors.
Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies.
...entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines.
Any ... Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines...

I believe it's foolish to assume that GW intends on continuing with the existing Space Marines line. I fully believe that we'll only see new releases for the Primaris Space Marines from here on out - Space Marines will be left to languish.

We've even now seen a larger Nurgle Chaos Space Marine. The writing is on the wall.

I don't mind change, but damn... As has been mentioned this isn't simply scale creep. This is a full on undermining of the narrative, a full on subversion of hobbyists entire model collections.

Can you tell I'm a little upset? I think I finally have a full understanding and appreciation for what the WFB players went through with the whole AoS change.

I would say most of us are quite aware of what is happening.

They aren't terminating the molds. They haven't written the old out. It doesn't subvert the collection. People will indicate their interest with their wallets and numarines will likely be the winner. Then 6-8 years from now they'll fade them out in the story and very few people will care, because most everyone will have newer models.

Do you still see tons of metal models on the table? Where are those complaints?

How the Imperium is probably totally boned

Q: So...would the blood angels be getting a big fly swatter to deal with this bug menace?
A: New Dreadnought combat weapon confirmed.

Q: nothing wrong with new scale marines, just don't bend fluff for it. Here bigger marines, now change collection or have smaller ones and it's fine, why that ... with cawl smarter than emperor. guilman should be called heretic for his 30k believes by 40k terra
A: Can we just agree that everyone is a Heretic and move on?

Q: God damn it. My beloved Sons of Sanguinius are on the way to squat town. Thanks GW. Looks like its snakes and ladders again for me
A: Hey David,
No one is going to Squat Town.
No need for Snakes and ladders, when you can play Leviathans and Jump packs.

Q: Dear Games Workshop Community manager, i know you certainly won't answer my question. But as i see the Lord of the XIIIth coming back and leading the armies of our God-Emperor, i want to ask, are other sons of the Emperor coming back too ? In these dark times, the sons of the First Legion really need their Primarch to guide them in theses ages of Darkness. And i'm not speaking only for the Ist Legion, are other still alive Primarchs planned to be brought back ?
A: Hey Steven,
Thanks for your question.
All we know at the moment, is that Guilliman is a the head of a new Crusade, and Magnus is once more out and about in the Galaxy.
Will we see any more primarchs return? Maybe, there are certainly some that are "lost" rather than confirmed dead, but we don't have any news on their return at the moment.

Q: Greeting GW PR team,

This has been the best PR campaigns in wargaming I have ever seen so well done. It does have a downside as we only see small elements at a time and it is a very hard system balance of point, counter point to keep everyone happy with what articles are released and what concerns are alleviated.

So far between the factions focuses and preview articles the game is feeling even more weighted in favor of shooting than what we have seen in 6th and 7th. We have had the Fight Phase preview but that article really just let us know it will play similar to AoS giving the community a more strategic improvement to the close combat phase. Between the PR replies and the article we keep getting the "get excited because close combat is great" reply. Unfortunately we have not gotten a solid preview how this is true.

The example that was used is Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers but most of the time the Guardsman win this fight in the last few editions. This was due to three game elements Area of Influence, Combat Effectiveness and pointing of models being made without taking into account of the last two elements.

Area of Influence - the area that takes into account the mobility and weapon's range of engagement. This is obviously in favor of fast units and ranged focused units.

Combat Effectiveness - This is the threshold of a unit to still make a meaningful impact related to combat on the battlefield. It takes into account many factors including Area of Influence. Again ranged units normally maintain combat effectiveness longer than non deathstar close combat specialist.

Non deathstar units normally take damage on their approach as well as in the close combat phase. Leaving a unit like Khorne Berserkers at reduced strength by the time they are able the are able to engage an enemy. If the close combat specialist win their combat now they repeat this process but generally reach the threshold of combat ineffective at a faster rate then most ranged units.

The community would really like to see a some articles on how close combat has improved. Try to cover these items and more if possible.

- The Pistol information was nice but do they still offer a plus 1 attack in close combat, as I'm not sure if that was covered?
- The moral check system is going to be very rough for close combat units taking tests on the way in and most likely from close combat. Is there a rule that helps protect the victor of close combat from taking a moral test? YAY we just won this fight but Bob died so more of us get to die.
- How fast can units get into combat from reserves and disembarking transports? PS: Please include this info in tomorrow's post.
- A more extensive look at weapons and abilities close combat specialist have to help turn the tide of battle.
- Give us some detailed examples on match ups example Guardsman vs Khorne Berserkers. How have things changed for close combat specialist and are Guardsman and their equivalent now hitting in melee on something like a 5+?
- Has there been anything done to help out melee infantry advancing across the battlefield? Currently it is better to take units that will fit inside transports over running a 20 man Khorne Berserkers or Crusader squads. Cheap horde units are nice looking at you Ork boys but in games that are time bound horde armies are not reasonable. I do miss my 230 model green tide but it just takes to long to play.

Thanks for your hard work and the community would love to know why and how close combat had improved with 8th.
A: Hey Matthew,
We'll certainly get you some nice juicy rules on Combat very soon covering some, if not all the things you mentioned.

Q: Blasphemy !! Baal will never fall !
Baal will become the new guiding light of the" Dark Imperium" with Sanguinius acting as the Astronomicon of Imperium Nihilus just as the Emperor is the Astronomicon on Terra for the rest of the Imperium....
I repeat Baal can not and Will not FALL !
Js..
A: That the spirit.

Q: I dont actually expect a response here but...could we just get on with it?

Ive played 40k for 17 years. Ive seen every rules evolution since 3rd ed. Ive never seen so much hype with no release date.

It really does seem like the game could be brought back to my glory day standards from 3rd and 4th, but this is just dragging out too long.

Take my money!!! Just get every damn thing rolling already!!!!!
A: You don't HAVE to read the articles.
We just thought you'd like to know stuff ahead of time.

Q: My Iron Warriors are certainly not happy to hear about Imperial Fists running around, but this does mean more opportunity to get trophies from killing our most hated foes!
A: We bet it does.

Q: So what's happened to the Dark Angels and their 'successors' *cough* Legion *cough* whilst this has been going on , will Cypher's friends slowly vanish off to the Rock, or will they tag on to the Crusade(s)?
A: We don't know yet, Tom.
Cypher and his buddies have proven pretty hard to catch in the past...

Q: Dear @Warhammer 40,000 I'm wondering... with all this Daemonic Prescence... Where are the Grey Knights?... as a one purpose made Chapter... I don't see them in this lore.
A: The Grey Knights are very much still around.
They do their own thing though, and don't even answer to a Primarch.

Q: Wouldnt Primaris space marines look down on the original space marines? true, they are of the same gene seed, on the same side, brothers and all that, but the original version had a part of them fall to chaos (went traitor) while the new version didnt - unspoiled versus the ones that got eventually spoiled, even a part of them (they had defects).
A: Or would the older ones look down on the untested recruits?

Q: So suddenly Cawl is smarter then the Emperor? It is so dumb I can't find words for it. Just stop changing and retconing old fluff.
A: Well, it took him 10,000 years to "improve" on a Marine with all the resources of Mars, where the Emperor made them from scratch in a few years in his basement.

Q: Hello GW ! All of this is very cool (specially your pre launch news each days) Can we have some news about the grey knights soon ?
A: We'll see what we can do.

Q: Oh. I get it. No need to replace Dante with a primaris when you can just kill all the top brass and then replace them after contact is reestablished! Ha!
A: He's survived 1,000 years of battle. This is just another day in the office right?

Q: So does this mean chapters on the far side, like the Blood Angels don't have Primaris Marines? Kinda sad for Blood Angel players.
A: Hey David,
Guilliman will certainly be trying to get his new reinforcements to Baal, and we're sure Dante will be glad of the help if they can make it.

Q: Newmarines have skitarii pattern galvanic rifles, sans precision shot? Cawl's giving away all our cool stuff!
A: We bet he saved Mars some good stuff too.

Q: will we be getting any more details soon about the blood angels/baal/tyranids?p.s....BRING BACK CORAX!! (please)
A: Nevermore.

Q: So will blood angels have access to Primaris marines? They don't have access to the imperium anymore.
A: If any can reach them in time, we bet they'd happily paint them red and throw them into the jaws of the devourer.

Q: Why the blopd angels always looking like a damsel in distress? Theres a big change coming for them
A: A damsel with a power sword who hunts dragons!

Q: can i join the crusade whit my old marines?, i have many bolter rounds to "gift" to heretics and xenos alike
A: You totally can.
Many non Primaris Marines are on the Crusade too.

Q: first you killed my brets. now you will kill off my angels......why gw why?
A: The angels aren't dead yet, Brad.

Q: The black Templars better have a crusade or I will crusade into your HQ myself
A: We don't think we could stop them crusading if we tried.

Q: Can we possibly have some news of the grey knight ?
A: We'll get you a faction focus article soon, don't worry.

 Red Corsair wrote:

I agree with most of your point but the part I placed in bold. There is a massive difference between technology allowing for models to hold high detail in a more convenient medium, and suddenly altering the scale and lore of a line.

Further more, I saw the righting on the wall and didn't mind much at first. After all scale has been creeping in for years, just look at rogue trader beakies. But, since they decided to make newer marines with altered in game stats, suddenly in 6-8 years when the lines are updated, I can't really use my old marine army in good faith since suddenly they have 2 wounds etc etc.

I can easily see why folks are frustrated, I mean heck I have 300 power armor bodies at least across several armies. NO WAY am I ever purchasing so many marines of any type again. I'll model a new army eventually, in my favorite faction and call it quits this time rather then recreating several factions I love. For the amount of gaming I can get in it simply isn't worth the risk of one day not being able to play an army. I'd rather focus on my Imperial Guard and xenos this edition since they are much safer from the creep (though I am sure it will catch everything).

sturguard wrote:
I

Although again it goes back to AoS. Alot of folks said GW wouldnt AoS 40k and that's exactly what we are getting. The AoS has a larger aesthetic and that is what 40k has been moving to. If I had to guess, soon most battles will always have a primarch on the table and come down to big guy vs big guy. yet that seems to be what the new generation wants. I just am hoping 30k stays as it is, make it the old timers game.