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 nintura wrote:

Spoiler:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 nintura wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'll spare people another rant against these new marines. I done that yesterday, and you know where I stand on the new marine/bolt rifle issue.

What I wanted to say was this: I don't often give credit to GW, but that leaked plague marine photo gets a big thumbs up from me.

Why? Because a few years back, I had to paint up the Dark Vengeance box set for a younger family member who got it at Xmas.

And those Chaos Chosen were absolutely (insert swear word here) awful to paint.

Some of the worst models I've ever had to paint. Way too much detail and clutter on them.

This new plague marine looks good and isn't drowned out by too much detail.

Good on you GW. Saved me a lot of potential hassle in the future.

I disagree 100% on the dark vengeance mini's. They are some of the best sculpts I've ever painted and by no means have too much detail. I consider myself a pretty decent painter with a brush, and there are companies out there that I couldn't even differentiate the detail because it was so fine and so cluttered.

Not disagreeing with you but just something you may not have considered is how hard such a cluttered model is for an average or worse painter. You said yourself your a decent painter, a decent painter can have fun painting almost anything. I have known more then a few less then great painters that get overwhelmed or struggle with those guys.

I'm not 100% disagreeing here, but being a decent painter has nothing to do with your skill level as much as it does patience. That's what makes someone decent. I actually found that marine I painted fully to be quite easy. Base coat, dry brush, pick out the gold, wash the gold. Drybrush the demon heads, paint the eyes, pick out the weapons and gear. Finish with 2 coats of Pledge Floor care and done. All in all I think that model took about a day to paint solo. Now I wont lie, the warlord was a different story. Not so much because he had too much detail, but because the detail he had was so weird and unlike anything in the chaos army. Different angles and objects and such.

I know what your saying 100% and try to explain to new comers that they simply need to take a little more time. I do however know a lot of people that seriously struggle with that amount of detail for one reason or another.

 flakpanzer wrote:
So I reread the Primaris FAQ this morning, and it stated this:

"I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?

Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves."

If the Blood Angels are on the other side of that Warp Rift from Terra/Mars, how are they going to get Primaris reinforcements?

The article about the rift said it has two safe passages, one which is (currently) under Imperium control.

tneva82 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
12000 ADDITIONAL troops, and all the regiments of the IG, and all of the existing space marine chapters, and all of the sisters detachments, and all of the inquisition resources, so on and so forth.

Which are pittances when wars involve billions

Considering a Company of 100ish marines is enough to turn a war that spans an entire planet or star system it seems pretty significant. In addition if they are doing it grand crusade style it will be a slowly expanding sphere rather than trying to fight EVERYWHERE at once.

Personally I am really happy they kept the primaris marines light on detail while also keeping the heads and shoulder pads the same. Makes it really easy to integrate them into any marine army you have while also having a minimal amount of detail.

I could totally see FW (Or some third party individuals) doing some chapter specific chest pieces as well to really flesh it out.

 warboss wrote:
That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.

Mount old marines with 25mm bases directly on 32mm bases: Done! Figure is taller by 3mm and on a 32 base.

T

 warboss wrote:

If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.

Anyone who doesn't think that this isn't the end of original marine development in favor of numarines is kidding themselves. How many new knightly orders, the previous elite followers of sigmar, has the empire, the supposed land of sigmar, faction gotten since the sigmarines came out? Ten years from now, pure old marines will be about as comprehensively supported as the SOB have been since 3rd edition. That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.

Yep, pretty much this. I would have definitely preferred these just being an updated models (perhaps with some new gear like you said) rather than completely new type of marine. It will be a horrible fluff and rule mess.

Nevertheless, the models are amazing, and I will probably be retiring my current marines in favour of them, like I retired my Dark Angels ages ago. It's a bit sad, as I've put so much time and effort in them, but I really cannot see myself to continue using the old models once these new superior ones will be available.

Frankly I'm hoping the Primaris Marines and all they imply lead to a splintering of the Imperium and locking the setting into a new civil war while it's being torn into by threats by all sides.

I mean from the fluff alone the Inquisition will likely not be able to calm their exterminatus button fingers over the idea that a "mere" Primarch tampered with the Emperor's work the way he did.

So basically the Imperium gets broken into subfactions with everyone claiming to be the side that actually follows the Emperor's vision, more Primarchs come back and the infighting gets messier.

Also I wonder if RG will bother to update his Codex so everyone gets a clean copy of what it should read instead of the incomplete ones that currently exist. And of course I look forward to the chaos that causes as well.

Basically, if GW does this right, I don't even know if the Emperor's return could save the Imperium.

And that's kind of awesome.

 Crimson wrote:

 warboss wrote:

If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.

Anyone who doesn't think that this isn't the end of original marine development in favor of numarines is kidding themselves. How many new knightly orders, the previous elite followers of sigmar, has the empire, the supposed land of sigmar, faction gotten since the sigmarines came out? Ten years from now, pure old marines will be about as comprehensively supported as the SOB have been since 3rd edition. That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.

Yep, pretty much this. I would have definitely preferred these just being an updated models (perhaps with some new gear like you said) rather than completely new type of marine. It will be a horrible fluff and rule mess.

Nevertheless, the models are amazing, and I will probably be retiring my current marines in favour of them, like I retired my Dark Angels ages ago. It's a bit sad, as I've put so much time and effort in them, but I really cannot see myself to continue using the old models once these new superior ones will be available.

I honestly dont recall the full fluff defenitly over the top hype of them being "NEW and BETTER" but never as a full on replacements

its possible fluff wise its just a simple gene seed add on from a freshly cracked primearch that allows them to be a bit more roided up. or perhaps its an updated black carapace that only works with this new mark armor. its gona be really hard to fluff out why the guns are only on them though.

 Desubot wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 warboss wrote:

If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary. I've dealt with the switch from monopose 2nd edition plastics and hybrid plastic/metals to 3rd edition omnimarine kit to specialized class plastic kits (like all plastic devs) to specialized variants for each chapter.. and I didn't bat an eyelash at any of them (and most I applauded at the time regardless if my own models were being replaced). Changing the fluff to officially make the original marines like an Iphone 4 in an 6S universe was completely unnecessary. If they wanted to improve marine stats to something more akin to what the fluff says, I'd have applauded that as well if they just grandfathered all marines in at the same time instead of downgrading the ones we already had.

Anyone who doesn't think that this isn't the end of original marine development in favor of numarines is kidding themselves. How many new knightly orders, the previous elite followers of sigmar, has the empire, the supposed land of sigmar, faction gotten since the sigmarines came out? Ten years from now, pure old marines will be about as comprehensively supported as the SOB have been since 3rd edition. That said, I'm simply *poof* making my old marines turn into numarines with a wave of my hand. If the rules say that you must use 32mm bases for numarines then I'll jury rig a conversion.

Yep, pretty much this. I would have definitely preferred these just being an updated models (perhaps with some new gear like you said) rather than completely new type of marine. It will be a horrible fluff and rule mess.

Nevertheless, the models are amazing, and I will probably be retiring my current marines in favour of them, like I retired my Dark Angels ages ago. It's a bit sad, as I've put so much time and effort in them, but I really cannot see myself to continue using the old models once these new superior ones will be available.

I honestly dont recall the full fluff defenitly over the top hype of them being "NEW and BETTER" but never as a full on replacements

its possible fluff wise its just a simple gene seed add on from a freshly cracked primearch that allows them to be a bit more roided up. or perhaps its an updated black carapace that only works with this new mark armor. its gona be really hard to fluff out why the guns are only on them though.

New tech, limited production numbers, they're sized for larger bodies (I'm sure Silas Albrec could use one though since he's an Ogryn sized Marine), ect, ect.

Also they seem to just be larger bolters loaded with Kraken rounds...not really that impressive honestly.

warboss wrote: If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary.

1) I agree with this statement.

2) I'm stealing the term "Adeptus Restartes".

seconded. adpetus restartes is pure genius.

Hahah Adeptus Restartes yep that is definitely what I'll call them from now on too.

It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.

It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.

There will be an almost infinite amount of models on eBay already and yet to be added in future years, for those who want to stick to current aesthetic. Collectors, hoarders, overstocked retailers, that dude who buys ten of every box to sit on for some reason who just got burnt bigtime, secondhand models... there'll be no shortage should you not want the new hotness and Geedubs stop making them. Heck, if you can buy unused RTB01 marines still...

I have had this issue for years. I use circa 1989 models for my marine army. They are all pewter models. I look at more modern models and say they would look out of place in my army. So, if I need a new squad, I almost always hunt down the rogue trader era models to fill out my marine force.

So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Carlovonsexron wrote:
seconded. adpetus restartes is pure genius.

I'm going to disagree. It reeks of "I don't like it therefore it must be stupid and bad".

While many are assuming that the Primaris is a replacement for regular Marines, I do want to point out that we know something about these new model kits:

They don't have all the same options as regular Marines.

We also know that the troop choice gets no special or heavy weapons.

This means there will be things that these new Marines will not be able to do. A lack of tactical flexibility brought about due to a lack of wargear. This will make them less appealing to most people as a whole chapter (unless there is some especially kick ass lore to go with some of these new chapters)

Now perhaps in 5 years or so they may repack the box and change that but it's still 2017, not 2022, we can worry about them phasing out regular Astartes in the future.

Furthermore, we have lore that has been released that some chapters will view these new Marines with suspicion. I can imagine those who trace their lineage back to Caliban would be at the top of that list because they'd see these new interlopers as an attempt to insert eyes into their chapter that don't belong there.

Similarly I'm certain that factions like the Inquisition wouldn't be too keen on seeing anyone, a Primarch or not, mucking about with the Emperor's designs. I mean this is a galaxy that still uses a form of quill to write things with likely because the ball point pen is to heretical. "New Marines" won't be something seen positively by most that's for sure.

Likewise these new Marines don't have the cultural indoctrination of the legions that founded them. Can you imagine the ones seconded to the Iron Hands, even with Ferrus' geneseed, suddenly cutting off their hands and adopting a "make everything augment" mindset? What about the ones given to the Salamanders, who weren't yet altered by the radiation of their homeworld? Can you imagine being told that you share the geneseed with beings that have a branding fetish and run around with coal black skin and glowing red eyes? If regular humans are freaked out by that, I can only imagine the revulsion from the Primaris marines would only get worse thanks to the sort of mindset that Marines have programmed into them.

What about being given over to a chapter with roots in Baal? Surprise, you're now a vampire who has to fight against the twin threats of the desire to drink blood/eat flesh and go crazy and think you're Sanguinius himself fighting his way through Horus' ship.

Welcome to the Space Wolves! Don't worry, they're not actually furries you're related to, just a tiny mutation that makes some of them turn into literal viking werewolves!

The tensions are going to be high for both sides of this issue and if it doesn't start conflicts in the setting I'd be amazed at the lost opportunities.

So if anything these new Marines set us up for rising tensions between different chapters and possibly snap the Imperium like Bane breaking Batman's back.

Which is good. Humanity's darkest hour only grows darker when it can't even manage to stand united against it's foes.

timd wrote:
So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the new "skull"?

 BrotherGecko wrote:
You are a very optimistic person (a good quality) but there is no way old space marines are making it past 2 years. Why would GW even bother producing models that people are not going to be buying? The shelf life of old space marines will be equal to the rate in which new marines can be produced. I think its going to be barely more than a year before old space marines are taking up a tiny portion of store space and you have to order most stuff in store to get them. But that is me.

Reboots are super in right now to appeal to new audiences. Space Marines just got their first reboot since.. Rogue Trader I believe.

Will GW be replacing moulds when they wear down? Especially as they have sold most of sales they will be getting in their life time in many cases.

7 bells. Seems good to a Death Guard.

timd wrote:
So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Yup.

I'm excited for that. It'll make painting my Guard stupid easy.

 EnTyme wrote:

warboss wrote: If it were just a model scale/asthetics change and a moderate fluff change (new Mk X armor and new pattern bolter!), I'd be fine with it. It's the fluff replacement of Adeptus Astartes with Adeptus Restartes that bothers me the most as it was unnecessary.

1) I agree with this statement.

2) I'm stealing the term "Adeptus Restartes".

Best summation of my sentiments as well.

I will calling them Adeptus Restartes too.

To the idea that they are not completely the same and thus old marines will stay. You are missing the point. Its a complete reboot of the idea down to how they are structured. They couldn't do that with old marines because people would be even more livid that they have to somehow restructure their load outs.

Make no mistake this is a complete reboot on everything that is a space marine.

Maybe Mephiston will get stats like he did in 5th. That would make him reasonable next to the spacecasts. And a big psychiced up model. And a bunch of psychic attacks that cause mortal wounds. And a rule that means if you roll a 2+ at that start of the game you win automatically.

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sersi wrote:

timd wrote:
So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the "skull"?

7 bells. Seems good to a Death Guard.

Found the model designer:

So something kinda funny I realized about the Nu-marines. It's stated that any Nu-marines sent to a existing chapter are still made from the same geneseed. This means they have been makeing nu-marines for chapters from a small amount of their geneseed tilith. Their are a few chapters like the Astra Charcadons and Black Dragons who are oviouesly mutated by keep passing in pure geneseed. Implied they are steeling or takeing it from loyalist or recently tratior chapters they fight. That is why they keep passing in pure geneseed. Does this mean.... that nu-mairnes who show up will be the red-headed step children of the chapter?

"Yeah.... This normal looking Nu-marine is TOTALLY one of us!"

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sersi wrote:

timd wrote:
So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the "skull"?

7 bells. Seems good to a Death Guard.

Found the model designer:

No cowbells on the model?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sersi wrote:

timd wrote:
So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the "skull"?

7 bells. Seems good to a Death Guard.

Found the model designer:

No cowbells on the model?

Now why did you have to go and kill the joke?

If they do interesting fluff on the tension between Adeputs Restartes and the old line space marines I'll be more cool with the addition.

 Sersi wrote:

timd wrote:
So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the new "skull"?

The starter kit Deathguard may come on a green sprue (and the Ultras on a blue sprue). GW has really gotten into using color coded sprues in starter sets. Of course, it could also be the new Deathguard Green is spray form.

Also, bells are kind of Nurgles thing. Take a look at the Putrid Blightkings.

 Bull0 wrote:
It's more or less the same as the change from Empire -> Stormcast Eternals - "They're elite troops reinforcing your beleaguered armies...!" but really your beleaguered army is being gracefully phased out.

It's OK to be bummed about it, I'm pretty attached to existing marines with their quirky permanent squat and weird proportions, but in time I'm sure I'll think about my current models the way I think about my old metal marines, or the first, shoddy mk.7 plastics, etc.

There's actually been no indication that the Empire models that haven't already been phased out (i.e knights and militia) are going anywhere, so by that comparison the old marines will still be around indefinitely.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

timd wrote:
So, the new Death Guard green paint in a spray can?

Wow I count like 6-7 bells! What are they the new "skull"?

The starter kit Deathguard may come on a green sprue (and the Ultras on a blue sprue). GW has really gotten into using color coded sprues in starter sets. Of course, it could also be the new Deathguard Green is spray form.

Also, bells are kind of Nurgles thing. Take a look at the Putrid Blightkings.

That's always possible, but it does look like a gravel flocked base that's been sprayed.