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tneva82 wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
That's the point of transports. Drive your troops into the thick of it all so they arrive alive, then they jump out and attack. Makes sense to me.

Point in where? Not real world at least where transports dn't drive ahead of troops that unloaded before right into middle of enemy.

Yeah, the real world!

40K is neither a simulation of modern warfare or even warfare in the 41st Millenium, however, if one looks at any number of movies, tv shows, video games etc etc, the use of vehicles as weapons in firefights, battering rams, cover etc is far more prevalent and a far more accurate comparison. 40K isn't real life, it's Hollywood, and, from a gaming and cinematic perspective, using transports in this way seems wholly appropriate.

EDIT: Sorry Alph, was mid composition when you posted the warning.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Sunday and Monday Facebook Q&As:

In my sempai post they also mentioned doing a FW article soon, though may not really be Q&A relevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Q: Dark Eldar are seeming better and better now!
A: Oh yes. Have the Raider charge in before the Wyches do and soak up the over watch? Yes please...

Now GW becomes nuts!
In each edition some of the rules are ridiculous and here we are.

Sounds completely balanced, frankly. If you don't want a vehicle soaking up your overwatch, destroy the vehicle?

If I'm a Guardsman and I see an Ork Trukk driving wildly at me? I'm going to be shooting it. Agreed. Sounds balanced to me too.

Q: And the beast?? What about the beast?? Come on faction focus Orks Mork damn you!!
A: We's savin da best fer later....

The tide is coming maggots get ready for the truk spam BOYS!!!!

Problems with being dragged into a fight with vehicles? Time to give your sergeants those powerfirst then! Let them come i say!

I guess I'm OK with using transports as battering rams, though I would like it better if they were a little less good at it - Death or Glory was one of my favorite things back when it sometimes worked. It would be cool as a sacrificial tactic, but with the durability of vehicles it looks more like a tarpit.

On the other hand I'm beginning to the get the feeling that when they said "Melee is awesome now!" what they meant was that they had buffed the stats of dedicated close combat units, not made assault more viable as a tactic for everyone. A genestealer should outclass a tactical marine, but right now they hit on 2s with 3 rending attacks, vs the marine's 1 attack for 3+ (He doesn't even get a bonus for charging any more). That is pretty sad.

 Azreal13 wrote:
40K isn't real life, it's Hollywood, and, from a gaming and cinematic perspective, using transports in this way seems wholly appropriate.

this is a really good point, tho I think comic books are a better reference point.

Glad to see a move away from TLOS. Whoever forced that abomination into 5th edition and onward needs to be dragged into the street and shot.

But you're not really driving your transport into the middle of the enemy and then disembarking right into combat, right? Sounds like you're disembarking, then charging the enemy while your transport also charges them, which for some reason prevents the enemy from shooting the guys, only because the player declared the transport charge first.

Just look at all the 40k art. MASSSSIIIIIIIVE battle where idiots fight between titans.. on foot... with swords... against titans..

40k never made any sense if you compare it to real life.

RoninXiC wrote:
Just look at all the 40k art. MASSSSIIIIIIIVE battle where idiots fight between titans.. on foot... with swords... against titans..

40k never made any sense if you compare it to real life.

People are confusing fantasy and sensibility. Just because you have fantasy elements doesn't mean you can't have world that makes sense. That's trademark of good writers. Realm that has fantastic unrealistic elements WHILE MAKING SENSE.

That's how you get suspension of disbelief that allows for world that feels real. With flyign dragons and guys that fight titans with sword.

tneva82 wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
That's the point of transports. Drive your troops into the thick of it all so they arrive alive, then they jump out and attack. Makes sense to me.

Point in where? Not real world at least where transports dn't drive ahead of troops that unloaded before right into middle of enemy.

Have you never seen any Hollywood army movie? Black Hawk Down? They drove Humvees and Blackhawks DIRECTLY into the middle of the enemy.

Heck, even in Iraq, we used all kinds of transports (Bradly's) to get into the city when needed. Tons of up-armored humvees. We STILL do this, even though we don't fight with swords and axes anymore.

*EDIT: Damnit... should read whole thread before replying.

Warhammer 40K is a galaxy populated by crazies wielding technology so advanced they have only a ritual understanding of it. That explains most things just fine for me.

 kestral wrote:
Warhammer 40K is a galaxy populated by crazies wielding technology so advanced they have only a ritual understanding of it. That explains most things just fine for me.

Pssssh, maybe if you are imperial. Us Xenos understand our technology perfectly well thank you very much.

tneva82 wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
Just look at all the 40k art. MASSSSIIIIIIIVE battle where idiots fight between titans.. on foot... with swords... against titans..

40k never made any sense if you compare it to real life.

People are confusing fantasy and sensibility. Just because you have fantasy elements doesn't mean you can't have world that makes sense. That's trademark of good writers. Realm that has fantastic unrealistic elements WHILE MAKING SENSE.

That's how you get suspension of disbelief that allows for world that feels real. With flyign dragons and guys that fight titans with sword.

Yeah, but the issue I have with your arguments is that they pretty consistently have been your rejection of ideas based on the fact you think they should be implemented differently, and when people present ideas which sensibly rationalize the concepts you're complaining about, they get ignored.

This basically boils it down to no logical objection, just pages and pages of you saying "I don't like this" in various colorful ways rather than possessing the personal objectivity to say to yourself "I don't like it, but I accept that this other thing is an equally valid way of solving the issue."

Again:

 Alpharius wrote:
Let's move on from the 'real life' comparisons please.

 Bull0 wrote:
Didn't the basic rules and warscrolls for age of sigmar go up before the release of the box? That's going to be exciting, if they do the same thing here.

I somehow am starting to get the feeling that the unit rules will not be free but will be in the 5 "codexes" only. They seem to be dancing around the availability of the dataslates.

Not that that's a bad thing. If the Codexes are the price of the Grand Alliance books, only like $20-$40, and the base rules are free, that's a decent price point.

As to my point on transports, I don't see every race getting to have their transport smashing into the enemy and then guys getting out to CC, but I see that as a thing for dark elder for sure. Wouldn't be surprised if they could do it, as they are elf space pirates after all

Requizen wrote:

I somehow am starting to get the feeling that the unit rules will not be free but will be in the 5 "codexes" only. They seem to be dancing around the availability of the dataslates.

Not that that's a bad thing. If the Codexes are the price of the Grand Alliance books, only like $20-$40, and the base rules are free, that's a decent price point.

Yeah, I was talking about this in the previous thread. Not a big deal indeed since it's not breaking the continuity of the price model. Personally I was wishing for free AoS scrolls because these would ease purchases and pre-planning so much...

 JoeyFox wrote:

If I'm a Guardsman and I see an Ork Trukk driving wildly at me? I'm going to be shooting it. Agreed. Sounds balanced to me too.

If you don't have AV in your army then you deserve to lose anyway. Sarcasm is not an argument.

On the other hand, maybe you're not being sarcastic and I just made an ass out of myself. If the latter, carry on.

If the power level and the 12 page rules are free. And the match play points are in 5 books priced at the Grand Aliiance Pricing ($35.00). That normally means you would only need to spend about 35.00.

And if you where being cheap. You could print your dataslates with the power point system on them. Then use an ink pen to write the points in them from someone elses books.

This truly is the cheapest I would expect the system to ever get.

Frankie and Reece seemed to have confirmed that MC and Vehicles cannot go through ruins and cannot get on top of ruins at all. So infantry on top of ruins simply cannot be charged by MC and Vehicles.

If the rules are only 12 pages long, I kinda hope they are just in the front of the Grand Alliance books.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Glad to see a move away from TLOS. Whoever forced that abomination into 5th edition and onward needs to be dragged into the street and shot.

Has this actually been confirmed or are we still just debating?

Just speculation so far as I'm aware.

Youn wrote:
If the power level and the 12 page rules are free. And the match play points are in 5 books priced at the Grand Aliiance Pricing ($35.00). That normally means you would only need to spend about 35.00.

And if you where being cheap. You could print your dataslates with the power point system on them. Then use an ink pen to write the points in them from someone elses books.

This truly is the cheapest I would expect the system to ever get.

I'm really expecting points and "3 ways to play" rules to be in a Genera's Handbook-style book for around $25 USD (Please call in the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer!). That'd be easier to update on a yearly basis. The "Grand Alliance" style books are really more to provide a physical copy of unit rules for those who either don't have access to them digitally or just prefer physical media.

Wulfey wrote:
Frankie and Reece seemed to have confirmed that MC and Vehicles cannot go through ruins and cannot get on top of ruins at all. So infantry on top of ruins simply cannot be charged by MC and Vehicles.

Based on the articles we've seen so far...

Sounded sort of like the big non-Infantry models will be able to just beat on the buildings until they fall down (T10, W~12, Sv3+) and then wade in and wreck face. Presumably, models in a building will be removed on a D6 roll of 1 when a building falls, just like when a vehicle explodes. I'm assuming all ruins/buildings can be attacked and not just those with specific datasheets like the Fortress of Redemption.

 kestral wrote:
I guess I'm OK with using transports as battering rams, though I would like it better if they were a little less good at it - Death or Glory was one of my favorite things back when it sometimes worked. It would be cool as a sacrificial tactic, but with the durability of vehicles it looks more like a tarpit.

On the other hand I'm beginning to the get the feeling that when they said "Melee is awesome now!" what they meant was that they had buffed the stats of dedicated close combat units, not made assault more viable as a tactic for everyone. A genestealer should outclass a tactical marine, but right now they hit on 2s with 3 rending attacks, vs the marine's 1 attack for 3+ (He doesn't even get a bonus for charging any more). That is pretty sad.

...genestealer doesn't have a gun. The marine will have grenades. And a pistol. And an armor save.

I fail to see how the attacks of a model make close combat more viable if getting to it is half the problem. They've already demonstrated the ways in which assault is a viable tactic.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the rules are only 12 pages long, I kinda hope they are just in the front of the Grand Alliance books.

Core rules are 12 pages. Looks like missions, game types, and expansions will be in addition to all of that.

str00dles1 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Q: Dark Eldar are seeming better and better now!
A: Oh yes. Have the Raider charge in before the Wyches do and soak up the over watch? Yes please...

Now GW becomes nuts!
In each edition some of the rules are ridiculous and here we are.

Are you mad about this? I honestly cant tell. That's the point of transports. Drive your troops into the thick of it all so they arrive alive, then they jump out and attack. Makes sense to me.

While everything (except rolling for each model when a transport blows up) is a good rule thus far, all I care about is wound allocation. Something they haven't talked about. Only thing I see as a make or break this edition

Except that what actually happens is you drive you troops to the edge of the thick of it off load then charge your transport into the enemy lines to tie them up and then your brave assault troops charge.

It's the type of gamey rule that I was expecting a group of hard-core tourney players to come up with. It also appears to be a stealth way of fething Tau over that I was expecting after previous faq's and comments from some of these parties. I also suspect the only reason this is causing less concern is that people can see it as a big FU to tau and are feeling a little gleefully.

However I expect once 8th drops it is going to be the main concern a lot of people raise when it starts effecting them. As a TS player I think it's bollocks and will seriously screw me over in a lot of cases.

Well, you'd be hugely disappointed if it turned out the game was actually fun, wouldn't you?