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Eyjio wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Just wait until they start to release supplementary books with new formations.
The release of such books has been very successful in the current incarnation of the game. What should they stop it.
If you buy the five index books, the Warhammer book, and the starter set, you are almost at 300 Euro.

Why would you buy the book when it's included in the starter anyway? In either case, it's still much cheaper than trying to own even half the codices out now, let alone all of them.

You might hate the models in the starter set and have no need for anything other than the BRB. In which case I guess you could just sell the sprues and keep the book as done in the past but resell value is not going to cover cost of the box.

 Deadshot wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Just wait until they start to release supplementary books with new formations.
The release of such books has been very successful in the current incarnation of the game. What should they stop it.
If you buy the five index books, the Warhammer book, and the starter set, you are almost at 300 Euro.

Why would you buy the book when it's included in the starter anyway? In either case, it's still much cheaper than trying to own even half the codices out now, let alone all of them.

You might hate the models in the starter set and have no need for anything other than the BRB. In which case I guess you could just sell the sprues and keep the book as done in the past but resell value is not going to cover cost of the box.

If you sold *just* the primaris half away at $10 for each unit you would make $80, and thats gotta be ez.

 Deadshot wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Just wait until they start to release supplementary books with new formations.
The release of such books has been very successful in the current incarnation of the game. What should they stop it.
If you buy the five index books, the Warhammer book, and the starter set, you are almost at 300 Euro.

Why would you buy the book when it's included in the starter anyway? In either case, it's still much cheaper than trying to own even half the codices out now, let alone all of them.

You might hate the models in the starter set and have no need for anything other than the BRB. In which case I guess you could just sell the sprues and keep the book as done in the past but resell value is not going to cover cost of the box.

I think you're misinterpreting me. The comment I was quoting was the cost of the starter+the book+all 5 indices. I was just wondering why anyone would buy the book as well as the boxed set when it's already included as part of the starter.

Indeed. There is no reason you need to buy the starter AND the rulebook.

Neronoxx wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Just wait until they start to release supplementary books with new formations.
The release of such books has been very successful in the current incarnation of the game. What should they stop it.
If you buy the five index books, the Warhammer book, and the starter set, you are almost at 300 Euro.

Why would you buy the book when it's included in the starter anyway? In either case, it's still much cheaper than trying to own even half the codices out now, let alone all of them.

You might hate the models in the starter set and have no need for anything other than the BRB. In which case I guess you could just sell the sprues and keep the book as done in the past but resell value is not going to cover cost of the box.

If you sold *just* the primaris half away at $10 for each unit you would make $80, and thats gotta be ez.

There is no market for reselling this box.

Group 1: Everyone NEEDS the rulebook.
Group 2: Some will want the rulebook AND the models.
Group 3: A small group will want extra models, in addition to the rulebook and a full set of models
Group 4: A tiny minority will want the models and not the rulebook (for various reasons)
Group 5: A tiny minority who will want the stuff1at discount
Group 6: A tiny minority who just want 1 particular unit in multiples (ie, the Primaris Tacticals)


For Group 1 those that just want the rulebook,they can either buy the single rulebook or the starter set, in which case they are either keeping the models and don't need yours, or selling it like you are. They are not going to buy your spare models.

For Group 2, those that want both, they can just buy up the starter set and be done with it. They will not buy up your models because they already have what they need.

Group 3 will be an option to sell, but a smart member of group 3 will just buy 2 starter sets and sell the rulebook, which there will be a greater market for (Ie, group 1)

Group 4 will likewise be about to sell the Rulebook to group 1 or in general, just by buying the starter set.

Group 5 wants discount, so you are selling the models for less than their value. If you sell each unit at say, £10 per unit, that's £80 for the Primaris, which is near the cost of the box and no one would buy that. So you would have to sell the models at a price lower than its value. Say that the box costs £100 and a solo rulebook is £40. You would need to sell the entire box, sans book, for £61 to justify the whole process. A smart person would never fall into this category, because its far too complex and risky. You are very likely to end up paying an extra £60 for models and dice you don't want and can't sell due the oversaturated market.

Group 6 will be buying up individual units, such as the Jump Primaris, or the cultists, whichever is most competitive and in deman. You will be able to sell your few sprues and nothing else as there is no demand for them. Again, you've paid over the odds for the rulebook.




GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

Hmm, it looks like if you play the Deathguard side your probably going to want to hunt around for people selling models. I would assume your force should end up looking something like:

Would be my guess with these guys.

Youn wrote:
Hmm, it looks like if you play the Deathguard side your probably going to want to hunt around for people selling models. I would assume your force should end up looking something like:

1 Lord of Contagion
1 Noxious Blightbringer
1 Malignant Plaguecaster
3 Foetrid Bloat-drones
3 Units of Plague Marines
6 Untis of Poxwalkers

1 Typhus
3 units of Deathguard Terminators?

3 Rhinos
2-3 other vehicles?


Primaris Player gets off easy.

1 Captain in Gravis Armor
1 Primaris Ancient
1 Lieutenant with auto bolt rifle
4 Incessor squads

2 Lieutenant with Power sword
2 Hellblaster squads

3 squads of Inceptors

2 Land raiders
4 Razorbacks

Would be my guess with these guys.

All this is based on what?

 Crimson wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Any chance you could do other main chapter colors? White?

Here's a bone white shop I did a while ago:

Salamanders?

Based off what we know of the FOC and how an average person would field those armies.

Note: On the primaris marines we know a standard marine is 13 points and a plasma gun is +7. Assuming a primaris marine being 1 extra wound is 20 points.

Your looking at approximately:

1 Captain in Gravis Armor (150)
1 Primaris Ancient (100)
1 Lieutenant with auto bolt rifle (75)
4 Incessor squads (100 points each)

2 Lieutenant with Power sword (75 each)
2 Hellblaster squads (135 points each)

3 squads of Inceptors (105 points each)

2 Land raiders (200 points each)
4 Razorbacks (75 points each)

Approximately 2000 points
Note: those are guesses and not real numbers. And even that underestimates the Land raider which has traditionally been 250 points.

I suggest if you want to talk armies based on absolutely no facts whatsoever, take it to the 40K discussion forum, not here. This is about news, not magic wishlisting

The discussion was on the set and if parts of it would sell. The answer is yes, parts would sell. It is as valid of a concern as what color looks best on those models as someone painting them pink is about as valid as someone painting them white.

I'm sorry, but this fly's in contrast to what I know will happen. The people in my local area are already talking about selling what they don't need and making arrangements. Maybe we have a unique community, but I find that to be unlikely.
I also don't think that people behave the way you think they do.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
That last point isn't valid. The Indexes are to bring every Army into the new edition at once given they've dramatically changed statlines. They've stated full faction Codexes will return later.

Indeed one of the things that many of us have asked for repeatedly is for them to update ALL armies when a new edition is launched to avoid the nonsense we have had with partially compatible codexes, new terrible ones, new broken ones, rules interactions that don't work and general rules that no longer work.

In my opinion it is a big step forward that they have actually done this this time.

I would assume if you put the rulebook from the box set up for about cost or even slightly below and are willing to ship to AU/NZ. Then they would sell pretty much as fast as they came in.

Neronoxx wrote:

Spoiler:

 Deadshot wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Just wait until they start to release supplementary books with new formations.
The release of such books has been very successful in the current incarnation of the game. What should they stop it.
If you buy the five index books, the Warhammer book, and the starter set, you are almost at 300 Euro.

Why would you buy the book when it's included in the starter anyway? In either case, it's still much cheaper than trying to own even half the codices out now, let alone all of them.

You might hate the models in the starter set and have no need for anything other than the BRB. In which case I guess you could just sell the sprues and keep the book as done in the past but resell value is not going to cover cost of the box.

If you sold *just* the primaris half away at $10 for each unit you would make $80, and thats gotta be ez.

There is no market for reselling this box.

Group 1: Everyone NEEDS the rulebook.
Group 2: Some will want the rulebook AND the models.
Group 3: A small group will want extra models, in addition to the rulebook and a full set of models
Group 4: A tiny minority will want the models and not the rulebook (for various reasons)
Group 5: A tiny minority who will want the stuff1at discount
Group 6: A tiny minority who just want 1 particular unit in multiples (ie, the Primaris Tacticals)


For Group 1 those that just want the rulebook,they can either buy the single rulebook or the starter set, in which case they are either keeping the models and don't need yours, or selling it like you are. They are not going to buy your spare models.

For Group 2, those that want both, they can just buy up the starter set and be done with it. They will not buy up your models because they already have what they need.

Group 3 will be an option to sell, but a smart member of group 3 will just buy 2 starter sets and sell the rulebook, which there will be a greater market for (Ie, group 1)

Group 4 will likewise be about to sell the Rulebook to group 1 or in general, just by buying the starter set.

Group 5 wants discount, so you are selling the models for less than their value. If you sell each unit at say, £10 per unit, that's £80 for the Primaris, which is near the cost of the box and no one would buy that. So you would have to sell the models at a price lower than its value. Say that the box costs £100 and a solo rulebook is £40. You would need to sell the entire box, sans book, for £61 to justify the whole process. A smart person would never fall into this category, because its far too complex and risky. You are very likely to end up paying an extra £60 for models and dice you don't want and can't sell due the oversaturated market.

Group 6 will be buying up individual units, such as the Jump Primaris, or the cultists, whichever is most competitive and in deman. You will be able to sell your few sprues and nothing else as there is no demand for them. Again, you've paid over the odds for the rulebook.




GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

I'm sorry, but this fly's in contrast to what I know will happen. The people in my local area are already talking about selling what they don't need and making arrangements. Maybe we have a unique community, but I find that to be unlikely.
I also don't think that people behave the way you think they do.

Communities are one thing, its just selling to friends (encompassing people who are actually friends and people you just know). Splitting a box is just the same. But buying for the rules and selling on the models needs to at least break even, otherwise you're just paying over the odds for the rules. Plus, everyone still NEEDS the rules if they want to play, and if they want both the rules and models they are better off just buying the box themselves, so there is no market for reselling, other than those who want duplicates. Except we know the Primaris Marines will be getting plastic kits at some point as a new faction, and likely very soon. Its not like with DV where you get some nicely sculpted monopose Dark Angels that are exactly the same unit as Tacticals and Bikes, these are a brand new model line that WILL be getting models in the very near future. I can't see anyone buying up these monopose models in lieu of normal multi-parts that will drop a few weeks later.

GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.

Their thighs STILL look a bit weedy, IMO. NuMarines, old problem with Marine kits.

But yellow suits them. Their hight tech look might work for Iron Warrior in custom armour?! With some chaotification...mhm.

I haven't thrown a dice or painted a model since 3rd Edition...been busy....some I'm very excited about this new edition..

I really hope that is true on the deathguard. I have deathguard army now and as I posted above. Would like 3 of a unit that only comes in 1 per 150.00 box set. And my guess, based on standard pricing is if in a single kit. That drone will be 40.00 a piece. As nothing from GW comes in much cheaper then that.

Justyn wrote:

GW have done a good job at killing "buy the set, sell the book" market. In 4th-7th Ed, where BfM, AoBR and DV had mini-rulebooks, the one from the set had its own value in being smaller and more conveniant than the standalone BRB. But if its the same product, the extra value of the starter set book vanishes except for discount. But as every NEEDS this book to play, anyone buying the set will not be able to sell their copy.

But those buying multiple sets will have an easy time selling their extra books at discount. To be honest I think the Primaris will sell well also at a discount. Death Guard however will be dirt cheap for those looking to pick them up. Far far less people playing them means far more available on the market.

I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.

Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.


To clarify, I'm talking a situation where you ONLY want the rulebook, and have no interest in the models or other contents. There are only 3 outcomes:

Profit
Break even
Loss

Profit will not happen as it requires sale of the contents at over retail value.

Break even will very likely not happen as it requires sale AT retail value, in which case the buyer would be better off buying up the whole set and selling on the rulebook. Except they need the ruleboook too, so why sell?

Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?

Models with many poses only makes sense to modelers. I know sounds crazy but some people just want to play the game. That is why in the local stores people are looking at trading the models with their friends.

Also, traditionally the kits are far more expensive to build an army out of vs the starter box. If your looking the build an army it's almost always cheaper to start with a starter box or two.

Or a GET STARTED box, how much would a 5 man squad of Primaris Marines go for on their own? You can assume they won't be cheaper then 40 dollars for the tactical squad. So, you can look at those marines as being generally around 40-50 dollars for 5 Primaris Marines.

If someone puts them up for 25 dollars. They will sell. And will sell alot quicker, once those kits come out with the 40-50 dollar pricing.

Does anyone else think that the starter forces are really HQ heavy? The marines have three HQs, four if the Ancient is a HQ too. Nurgle has three HQs. This is probably not optimal for forces this small... I'd assume force consisting of less than twenty marines would be led by a single lieutenant and that's it.

(Not complaining, just an observation.)

Youn wrote:
Models with many poses only makes sense to modelers. I know sounds crazy but some people just want to play the game. That is why in the local stores people are looking at trading the models with their friends.

Also, traditionally the kits are far more expensive to build an army out of vs the starter box. If your looking the build an army it's almost always cheaper to start with a starter box or two.

Or a GET STARTED box, how much would a 5 man squad of Primaris Marines go for on their own? You can assume they won't be cheaper then 40 dollars for the tactical squad. So, you can look at those marines as being generally around 40-50 dollars for 5 Primaris Marines.

If someone puts them up for 25 dollars. They will sell. And will sell alot quicker, once those kits come out with the 40-50 dollar pricing.

The number of people who only care for the game and just want the models as game pieces is a drop in the ocean. I've been playing the game for around 10 years, and on this site for 5. I have NEVER seen anyone who only ever uses the snapfit starter models. Usually because the starter set models have the worst possibly loadout as well.

Again, if someone wnated them only to game with, they'd be better off buying up multiple sets and selling THEIR rulebooks to those who dont want the models at all, as then you can actually sell them at discount without fear of loss or having excess stock. I don't see a single situation where buying the set for the rules alone would be profitable or help you break even, so if you do that, you're pretty much taking a loss for something tht you could have just bought straight off the shelf, or at discount yourself.

The mini-rulebook was different, you got added value of conveniance which you couldn't buy off the shelf.

 Deadshot wrote:

Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?

Or you just don't want to fething deal with fee-bay.

I'm just buying the damn books and objective markers. I have no interest in the models in the starter box.

 kronk wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Loss is extremely likely, why risk it when you don't need to?

Or you just don't want to fething deal with fee-bay.

I'm just buying the damn books and objective markers. I have no interest in the models in the starter box.

Exactly!

 Deadshot wrote:


The mini-rulebook was different, you got added value of conveniance which you couldn't buy off the shelf.

Yeah, I kept the mini rulebook in my travel backpack so I could flip through it on the plane or hotel.

My marines I use in my army are the Circa 1989 vintage marines in all pewter. It should be noted I bought this army brand new in blister packs at that time. People kid me at my FLGS because my models are actually older then some of the players at the store. They are all of the same 5-6 poses.

I also own an eldar army in all pewter from 1993 era.

My Deathguard army and my GK army are the only armies adjustable poses. And the Deathguard are the metal deathguard with plastic arms, so even they are limited to just their arms in different poses.

I don't see the Primaris selling well, personally, as mutliparts will be released in the very near future. Very likely they'll be the first release of the new edition in July.

Buying multiple sets helps sell the books yes, but what about all the models you still don't want? All you've done now is pay £300 to have 1 rulebook and maybe recoup the other £260 you paid for the other 2 rulebooks and 3 sets of models, dice, and Combat Gauge thingies. Even if you sell a full set at retail price, recouping your losses, your buyer isn't saving any money, and you are just breaking even, so who benefits from this? The other side is that you pay £300 for 3 sets, sell some of it and are left out of pocket and with excess stock. You'd be better off just buying up the book on its own, as they are exactly the same product. IF the set came with a small book, even, a slight loss in monetary value would be acceptable for the added conveniance of the small book, but as both are the big book, it makes no sense to take the extra financial risk.

I'll go with US prices as they are more relevant for me. $160 for the set. Selling things off $50 for the rulebook, its $60 on the shelf so should be easy. I'll get rid of things I don't need at $8 for characters and $12 for squads, $60 for the faction probably a bit less if its the Nurgle stuff and a bit more if its the Marines. Yes they are mono-pose but they will be 20%-30% of the cost of the regular kit. Well worth it to many people. So for $50-60 I get a second set of what I want. Will I make money? no. Will I get that and keep what I want at a decent price, definitely.

I will probably get some of the multipart primaris kits as I like posing miniatures and bit swaps with other kits are easier, but the starter kit models look really good and there are not many duplicate poses, so I think most people will be completely OK with using mostly those. I think the desirability of the multipart kits will greatly depend on whether they will actually contain any options not present in the starter. (I'm sure GW understands this too, and thus I expect to see new option in the multipart kits. Really hoping for melee option for the jump dudes and some options for the sergeants.)

 Crimson wrote:
Does anyone else think that the starter forces are really HQ heavy? The marines have three HQs, four if the Ancient is a HQ too. Nurgle has three HQs. This is probably not optimal for forces this small... I'd assume force consisting of less than twenty marines would be led by a single lieutenant and that's it.

(Not complaining, just an observation.)

That's assuming the LTs and Ancient are HQs at all. Perhaps they will form a Command Squad. Command Squads should have LTs anyway, not Sergeants.

Unless they include a special Detachment, there are too many HQs to run in a Patrol Detachment, but not enough Troops to run a Battalion.

I think it is kind of funny that the entire time I was a Lieutenant, no role existed for a Lieutenant in a Space Marine army. But as soon as I get promoted to Captain, BOOM, Lieutenants all over the place. Oh well, I hope a custom kit for a Captain comes out so I can commemorate my promotion with a new model.