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The Redemptor is just a fusion of the Contemptor and Casteferrum pattern Dreadnoughts. They have the legs of a Contemptor with the torso of a Casteferrum. In my opinion, it is downright perfect. As for the weapon, again, the tanks at the bottom are present on the Venerable Dreadnought as well. Is the argument that the Venerable Dreadnought is copying the Tau?

At any rate, hopefully the Redemptor has atomatic shielding of some sort. I am also looking forward to additional weapon options. Though does it really need another chaingun?

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
If there's anyone here who played the demo game they had today, would you be able to confirm what "And they Shall Know No Fear" and "Death to the False Emperor" do?

B&C said ATSKNF lets you reroll Battleshock tests.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
If there's anyone here who played the demo game they had today, would you be able to confirm what "And they Shall Know No Fear" and "Death to the False Emperor" do?

B&C said ATSKNF lets you reroll Battleshock tests.

According to a post yesterday, "Death to the False Emperor" is an extra melee attack on a 6 to hit.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Redemptor is just a fusion of the Contemptor and Casteferrum pattern Dreadnoughts. They have the legs of a Contemptor with the torso of a Casteferrum. In my opinion, it is downright perfect. As for the weapon, again, the tanks at the bottom are present on the Venerable Dreadnought as well. Is the argument that the Venerable Dreadnought is copying the Tau?

At any rate, hopefully the Redemptor has atomatic shielding of some sort. I am also looking forward to additional weapon options. Though does it really need another chaingun?

Clearly everything is copying Tau. Even technology that is older than their entire race.

Death to the False Emperor gives CSm an extra attack on each 6 to Hit roll they make.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

To be honest, I agree. I assumed the death guards will have two wounds, so before I tought it could be balanced. Maybe the "Disgusting resilient" everything has can do the trick? And the Chaos Lord, that is a complete beast in meele, with help of the sorcerer. But as every starter I expect an advantage to the Space Marine side.

T5 and DR might balance them out a bit.

Prioritise removal of the plague marines via your bolt rifles and the bloat drone through inceptors, whilst plasma supports whichever group is doing worse. Hunt down the sorcerer next, all whilst keeping out of the range of the 4 inch move assault troops.

At this point your opponent should have ran out of tactical options, and you can clear out the poxwalkers and remaining characters from a safe distance at your leisure. You'll take some casualties, but through superior range and wound count plus not having to worry about half the opposing army there's not much issue I can see.

 ClockworkZion wrote:


Gyrojets have velocity to leave the barrel, problem is they have horrible accuracy. They're a real thing. Go google it, they,re kinda neat.

What you're suggesting is the bolt is a two stage weapon. Stage one is a charge to launch the round and ignite a primer in the round which accelerates and likely arms the explosive core of the bolt.....which would decrease the accuracy of the bolt.

And it,s not like you need a massive amount of force to kick a bolt out of the barrel, or even starting it down the barrel and igniting the rocket in one go. There really isn't a reason for the weapon to kick when using rocket propelled rounds.

Gyrojets still have recoil, they reduce it but it still is there, and the ammunition of a bolter is far larger than a gyrojet, so it will have a far greater recoil than those.

In addition, without the two stage system they would be worse short range, which wouldn't fit the setting.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

What you're suggesting is the bolt is a two stage weapon. Stage one is a charge to launch the round and ignite a primer in the round which accelerates and likely arms the explosive core of the bolt.....which would decrease the accuracy of the bolt.

It has always been described as such in any document that gets more explicit about how bolters work than "rockets, lol" - indeed the contrast with gyrojets is made clear when you consider Stalker pattern silenced bolts which explicitly are gyrojet-type slow launch projectiles.

I'm not sure how being two-stage would automatically decrease accuracy though? You seem to treat it as an obvious and insurmountable side effect which doesn't really tally. One would just have to have extremely strict manufacturing tolerances for both propellant and shell, of the sort that you really wouldn't normally see in a line infantryman's weapon. But, then, Space Marines really aren't line infantry, are they?

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

What you're suggesting is the bolt is a two stage weapon. Stage one is a charge to launch the round and ignite a primer in the round which accelerates and likely arms the explosive core of the bolt.....which would decrease the accuracy of the bolt.

It has always been described as such in any document that gets more explicit about how bolters work than "rockets, lol" - indeed the contrast with gyrojets is made clear when you consider Stalker pattern silenced bolts which explicitly are gyrojet-type slow launch projectiles.

I'm not sure how being two-stage would automatically decrease accuracy though? You seem to treat it as an obvious and insurmountable side effect which doesn't really tally. One would just have to have extremely strict manufacturing tolerances for both propellant and shell, of the sort that you really wouldn't normally see in a line infantryman's weapon. But, then, Space Marines really aren't line infantry, are they?

Bullet spin for a slower moving round would be different for a faster moving round (for example the 5.56mm the M16/M4 series uses a 1:7" right hand twist. For every 7" of travel it makes a complete rotation along the long centeral axis of the round) Taking a slow moving round and then suddenly making it go faster would make the round wobble and throw it off course.

Then again physics in 40k seem to work differently since you can apparently drop in from high orbit just by strapping rockets to your head and feet....

So basically the arguement is pointless.

Tyran wrote:

 slogael wrote:

They're assault weapons, so not pistols.

It's like a SMG that uses HB ammo.

Hmm, what I thought too, but I was a bit puzzled by the decription of it : "a handheld PISTOL version of the conventional Heavy Bolter"...

It is a handgun, and the term handgun can be interchangeable with pistol.

But the term 'pistol' is game relevant.

ERJAK wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 slogael wrote:

They're assault weapons, so not pistols.

It's like a SMG that uses HB ammo.

Hmm, what I thought too, but I was a bit puzzled by the decription of it : "a handheld PISTOL version of the conventional Heavy Bolter"...

It is a handgun, and the term handgun can be interchangeable with pistol.

But the term 'pistol' is game relevant.

And Machine Pistols like that one are apparently assault weapons, not pistols according to the rules.

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

I wish to know more because this sounds interesting.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Hmm, think I can live without any Primaris marines, they really do make regulars look a bit derpy.

So... anyone able to confirm/ask what if any FW lists are making it into those IA books? Ex:
Eldar Corsairs
Tyrant's Legion
IG/AM tank company
Ork dread mob(or something like that?)
the variations on krieg/renegade/elysian lists?
SM siege army (or w/e it's called)
...maybe I'm missing some?

With the 3-6 Heavy support Spearhead detachment, I'm not sure if tank company needs to exist anymore? You just only get 1 CP per detachment is the downside. Maby the same with the Dread Mod and SM siege army?

I don't remember if IG have a tank commander option in their native rules, but Marines certainly had different options in their siege list beyond different ratios and I'm pretty sure the dread mob did, too.

As stated the ig have a tank commander, but the options between bit and the fw one were different.

What I sort of mean is at this point fw could just make a lot of this lists unquie units/options open to everyone instead of as a list.

Alot of them were even open to the normal lists with the same book. The list was just a different way to take them.

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

Look how small that table is though.

If you have a proper terrain set up, Death Guard has a good chance.

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

This implies that a large number of players are running their primaris captain into the chaos lord for a duel, when a glance at the profiles would suggest what you really want to do is have him camp in the middle of your gunline to buff their shooting and only move in on mop up duty.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

I wish to know more because this sounds interesting.

Just watching the videos of the interviews and most games at the time were being won by choas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

This implies that a large number of players are running their primaris captain into the chaos lord for a duel, when a glance at the profiles would suggest what you really want to do is have him camp in the middle of your gunline to buff their shooting and only move in on mop up duty.

Yeah i would'nt move my captain from my hellblasters all game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rippy wrote:

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

Look how small that table is though.

If you have a proper terrain set up, Death Guard has a good chance.

Maybe a transport wouldn't hurt either.

I have watched that Mortarion "Angel of Nurgle" video about 10 times.
I can't describe the feeling of having your beloved faction being the focus!
And the feeling of knowing it will probably be the last time in my lifespan.....

 Rippy wrote:
I have watched that Mortarion "Angel of Nurgle" video about 10 times.
I can't describe the feeling of having your beloved faction being the focus!
And the feeling of knowing it will probably be the last time in my lifespan.....

At least you got one in your lifespan...


Poor SoB.

ERJAK wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have watched that Mortarion "Angel of Nurgle" video about 10 times.
I can't describe the feeling of having your beloved faction being the focus!
And the feeling of knowing it will probably be the last time in my lifespan.....

At least you got one in your lifespan...


Poor SoB.

Sisters kinda got some spotlight in Gathering Storm....well more than normal at least.

 Rippy wrote:
I have watched that Mortarion "Angel of Nurgle" video about 10 times.
I can't describe the feeling of having your beloved faction being the focus!
And the feeling of knowing it will probably be the last time in my lifespan.....

Being a non Space Marine army and seeing a big release for your faction is like watching the Halley Comet

 Galas wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have watched that Mortarion "Angel of Nurgle" video about 10 times.
I can't describe the feeling of having your beloved faction being the focus!
And the feeling of knowing it will probably be the last time in my lifespan.....

Being a non Space Marine army and seeing a big release for your faction is like watching the Halley Comet

Indeed. I look forward to the Orkmaris releases when we get the Nids vs Orks campaign though.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

I wish to know more because this sounds interesting.

Here mate, brought to you by the Lord Of Layers, Duncan Rhodes!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have watched that Mortarion "Angel of Nurgle" video about 10 times.
I can't describe the feeling of having your beloved faction being the focus!
And the feeling of knowing it will probably be the last time in my lifespan.....

At least you got one in your lifespan...


Poor SoB.

Sisters kinda got some spotlight in Gathering Storm....well more than normal at least.

Yeah...a literally infinite increase in representation and space marines still tripled us in the end.

ERJAK wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have watched that Mortarion "Angel of Nurgle" video about 10 times.
I can't describe the feeling of having your beloved faction being the focus!
And the feeling of knowing it will probably be the last time in my lifespan.....

At least you got one in your lifespan...


Poor SoB.

Sisters kinda got some spotlight in Gathering Storm....well more than normal at least.

Yeah...a literally infinite increase in representation and space marines still tripled us in the end.

Hence "some" spotlight.

At least Celestine got her own model teaser video?

I like the new dread. Keeps the same style, but with some improvements to the legs and a slightly more organic form.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am also a bit surprised they didn't just give Plague Marines two wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I suppose having two wounds is a Restarties bespoke rule, so nurgle had to get something else. Although with the disgusting thing, you might theoretically save 10 wounds in a row.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

To be honest, I agree. I assumed the death guards will have two wounds, so before I tought it could be balanced. Maybe the "Disgusting resilient" everything has can do the trick? And the Chaos Lord, that is a complete beast in meele, with help of the sorcerer. But as every starter I expect an advantage to the Space Marine side.

T5 and DR might balance them out a bit.

Hellblasters are the only unit that scares the drone and the lord. I'd run the drone up the side to try and draw them away. Of course the captain should go with them.

Then i'd drop in the Lord behind and squeeze them on both sides by running everything up as fast as possible. The lord can take over 240 bolter shots. Of course if they decide to remain close together then everything will converge on them all at once.

I'd keep my plasma gun supercharge at bay until i'm at rapid fire range. A couple decent set of rolls would see two full marines dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kestral wrote:

I am also a bit surprised they didn't just give Plague Marines two wounds.

I'm glad they're keeping things varied.

1W and a FNP is a lot more useful than 2W on many occasions this edition.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 portugus wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Its just theory and whining about it this early seems a bit pointless, but based on the revealed profiles I don't see how the Death Guard starter has a hope against the Primaris starter unless the characters do the heavy lifting.

Have you seen the test games at warhammer fest? Chaos is owning most tables. The Chaos lord whups the Primaris Captain.

I wish to know more because this sounds interesting.

Its not that surprising, look at the Nurgle Lord rules and weapon and look at the Smurf captain...

It makes perfect sense for Heretic Astartes to only have 1W, even the ones dedicated to a Chaos god. Afterall, they are still former Loyalists and should be a dark reflection of Heresy era Marines.
Primaris Marines are something new and have been designed to be Marines 2.0. Heretics are still Marines 1.0

 Galas wrote:
Being a non Space Marine army and seeing a big release for your faction is like watching the Halley Comet

The Dark Eldar got a pretty HUGE release… just before being neglected again. Though not as neglected as Sisters, they still got some few new release and some printed, translated dex…