40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**skarsol**

v0iddrgn wrote:
I have a question about points. Do special characters like Kaptin Badrukk have to pay for their wargear separately like all the other models?

The column header in the price list will say if they're inclusive of wargear or not.

**Grimskul**

v0iddrgn wrote:
I have a question about points. Do special characters like Kaptin Badrukk have to pay for their wargear separately like all the other models?

Nope. The points given to the majority of special characters have their wargear included.

**ClockworkZion**

theharrower wrote:
Something didn't look quite right with the Repulsor so I fixed it.

Spoiler:

Nice shop job! Think you can do a Templar one for me please (if so PM it so we don't clutter the thread).

Also once again I think any other color than Ultramarine Blue seems to make these models look better.

**ColdSadHungry**

ClockworkZion wrote:
WarbossDakka wrote:
Looks like another you love it or you hate it model. The front looks pretty disgusting, too much metallic on there. The back looks like it belongs on a different model, though I can't put my finger on which. Either way I'm not a fan, hopefully I'll warm up to it. Disappointing after being pretty happy about the Primaris Marines.

I think the Grav Plates would work better in a dark metal color like Screaming Bell with some highlights. Then again I tend to like my metals darker than most.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ColdSadHungry wrote:
Is there any word on whether models in terminator armour ignore the -1 to hit with heavy weapons? I ask because in the grey knights Wargear, terminators pay more than PA guys for heavy weapons so I'd expect them to be better...

Nope. Instead you have extra wounds and a teleport strike (which all GK have, but I'm speaking of the general upgrade over power armour) All "relentless" style rules are all bespoke and would be in the unit profile.

Of, and now Storm Bolters are double bolters to Termis have double shots over regular Marines as well.

Thanks. Still seems odd that you pay more for the weapon since I would assume the extra abilities they have for being terminators are reflected in their increased model cost over PA guys. Still, it is what it is.

**ClockworkZion**

v0iddrgn wrote:
I have a question about points. Do special characters like Kaptin Badrukk have to pay for their wargear separately like all the other models?

When you look at the points list you'll see a section marked "Special Characters" shich has a note that reads "points cost includes wargear". The Kaptin should be on that list for Orks.

Actually the only special character who seems to not be on the list is Bjorn due to his multiple load outs. They split Khian into two entries (one wi his bike, the other without).

**Swara**

I just noticed that Daemons have a slight buff to MSU because they don't pay for equipment anymore, so a group of 3 drones come with an icon, musician, and champion for "free".

**RabidDuck**

I did a quick search and could not find an answer. How are points for squad leaders determined? I do not see a point cost for Boss Nobs or Sgts'?

**skarsol**

Swara wrote:
I just noticed that Daemons have a slight buff to MSU because they don't pay for equipment anymore, so a group of 3 drones come with an icon, musician, and champion for "free".

Look at "Other Wargear" on the points page.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RabidDuck wrote:
I did a quick search and could not find an answer. How are points for squad leaders determined? I do not see a point cost for Boss Nobs or Sgts'?

If there's no points listed, they're free. Most unit leaders are free.

**GI_Redshirt**

skarsol wrote:
GI_Redshirt wrote:
Models never "suffer a wound".

So the thing specifically called out by the rules as happening never happens?

3. Allocate Wound: "If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound..." - The unit get a wound, the player allocates the wound to a model.
4. Saving Throw: "... then the damage is prevented... [otherwise]... the model suffers damage..." - The model saves the wound, if not saved, the wound assigns damage.
5. Inflict Damage: "A model loses one wound for each point of damage it suffers." - The model takes/suffers a wound for every damage.

So do models suffer wounds or not? Because in here you, in your own words, describe the rules by saying that models suffer wounds. By failing to save a wound, the target unit suffers a wound. That wound then inflicts damage equal to its damage value as indicated by the weapon stat line. When you have successfully wounded a target, that target must then make saving throws. For every failed saving throw, that unit suffers a wound. You then allocate damage to the unit based on the number of wounds suffered. You don't jump straight from failed saving throw to damage, you must determine the number of wounds suffered, THEN determine the damage suffered. If you toss out that step of determining wounds suffered/failed to save against, as you are indicating, then the process breaks down.

Suffer was my own words. Models never "suffer a wound" in the core rules. If you want to RAW, then we can say Stims never do anything because models never suffer wounds, they just lose them.

So then what happens after you make your to hit rolls? What are you rolling for there? What is the target unit rolling saving throws against? They don't just lose wounds, they only lose wounds after saving throws have been failed.

**skarsol**

GI_Redshirt wrote:
skarsol wrote:
GI_Redshirt wrote:
Models never "suffer a wound".

So the thing specifically called out by the rules as happening never happens?

3. Allocate Wound: "If an attack successfully wounds the target, the player commanding the target unit allocates the wound..." - The unit get a wound, the player allocates the wound to a model.
4. Saving Throw: "... then the damage is prevented... [otherwise]... the model suffers damage..." - The model saves the wound, if not saved, the wound assigns damage.
5. Inflict Damage: "A model loses one wound for each point of damage it suffers." - The model takes/suffers a wound for every damage.

So do models suffer wounds or not? Because in here you, in your own words, describe the rules by saying that models suffer wounds. By failing to save a wound, the target unit suffers a wound. That wound then inflicts damage equal to its damage value as indicated by the weapon stat line. When you have successfully wounded a target, that target must then make saving throws. For every failed saving throw, that unit suffers a wound. You then allocate damage to the unit based on the number of wounds suffered. You don't jump straight from failed saving throw to damage, you must determine the number of wounds suffered, THEN determine the damage suffered. If you toss out that step of determining wounds suffered/failed to save against, as you are indicating, then the process breaks down.

Suffer was my own words. Models never "suffer a wound" in the core rules. If you want to RAW, then we can say Stims never do anything because models never suffer wounds, they just lose them.

So then what happens after you make your to hit rolls? What are you rolling for there? What is the target unit rolling saving throws against? They don't just lose wounds, they only lose wounds after saving throws have been failed.

After your to hit roll you roll to wound the target. The target is a unit. The unit takes a wound if you make your to wound roll. The wound is then allocated to a model. The model then takes damage. The model then loses a wound for each damage they take. A *model* only loses wounds after damage has been assigned after savings throws have been failed.

Edit: As recommended by Azreal13, this now belongs in YMDC.

**Leth**

From what I can gather, and the horrible restrictions they placed ONLY on the deathwatch. Really, our terimnator captains cant take any options but every other space marine captain can.......RIGHT.......same with razorbacks and some FW bits only options.

The indexs are for units that have models AT LAUNCH. From what I can gather once the primaris are released and their plastic kits are released they will have a bunch more options for their characters and models.

For example in the death guard list the fluff specifically mentions that death guard have lots of terminators as a primary part of their attack forces. Yet their current list does not allow them to take terminators. Well what do we know that is coming but has not been released yet? Death guard terminator equivalents. I plan to hold off on assembling my primaris marines until their codex drops and we can see all the options. I bet the hellblaster squad and the inceptor squads will have more weapon options going forward.

One of the things that I am bothered by is the fact that blood angels assault marines lost their meltaguns. I was expecting all assault marines to finally get them. I personally plan to petition them to drop the "model only" policy when so many things are easily kitbashed.

Same with things like generic chapter masters and wolf lords disappearing. The only ones that stayed are ones that had models(like special characters)

Drop pod points make no god damn sense and the terminator restriction goes against the space wolf fluff completely.

So we will see. Cant wait till pre-orders so I can message them about everything

**Swara**

skarsol wrote:
Swara wrote:
I just noticed that Daemons have a slight buff to MSU because they don't pay for equipment anymore, so a group of 3 drones come with an icon, musician, and champion for "free".

Look at "Other Wargear" on the points page.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RabidDuck wrote:
I did a quick search and could not find an answer. How are points for squad leaders determined? I do not see a point cost for Boss Nobs or Sgts'?

If there's no points listed, they're free. Most unit leaders are free.

There are points costs there in "other wargear", but above that, it says the points costs for the daemons "including wargear" and in their datasheet wargear is listed that they can take.

**Azreal13**

As there's enough info available, I'd suggest that the wounding process and questions relating are now better served in YMDC rather than clogging up the news thread with yet another tangent.

**WarbossDakka**

Well, the Limited Edition has just been announced just as I checked the Youtube page for the first time in forever, and as it has been since the start of time they've got 1 or 2 things that I actually like, and the rest is pretty much an afterthough. I'm sure it is very high quality, and the cards and mini rulebook are very tempting, but this will surely be £100+, putting me off it. I bet I sound like a grumpy old sod today

**skarsol**

Swara wrote:

There are points costs there in "other wargear", but above that, it says the points costs for the daemons "including wargear" and in their datasheet, it says that they are already equipped with it.

A plague drone is equipped with death's heads and a plague sword. You may take an Instrument (if you pay for it). You may take an Icon (if you pay for it). The Champion is free.

**TheDraconicLord**

Limited Edition info is up

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/02/warhammer-40000-limited-editions-june2/

Warhammer 40,000 Limited Editions

We’ve already seen the new Warhammer 40,000 book and the impressive Dark Imperium box, but there is a 3rd way for 2,000 of you discerning collectors to get your hands on the new Warhammer 40,000. To show you what it is, we’re going to pass you over to our favourite unboxing expert, Baz:

The Limited Edition of Warhammer 40,000 will be available exclusively from games-workshop.com tomorrow, alongside all our other pre-orders for the new edition. If you want one, don’t hang around, there are only 2,000 copies available worldwide.

Spoiler:

Black Library also have a Limited Edition book on offer tomorrow…

This weekend, Warhammer 40,000 enters a new era with the release of the Dark Imperium boxed set, and Black Library ready to join the Indomitus Crusade, starting with a novel by Guy Haley, aptly titled ‘Dark Imperium’. As the first novel set in the new galaxy status quo, it’s only fitting that it has a lavish Limited Edition…

Spoiler:

The ‘Dark Imperium’ Limited Edition is a 368-page hardback book with a soft-touch cover and leather-wrapped spine, with both gold foiling and artwork from the new game. The pages are gilt-edged, and the book includes two marker ribbons in black and gold – so it looks and feels like an artefact from the 41st Millennium.

But what about the contents? Well, the story sees Roboute Guilliman leading his Indomitus Crusade across the galaxy, bringing him back to Ultramar, where the pustulent Death Guard are laying siege to the Five Hundred Worlds. And as if that weren’t enough, this edition also includes an exclusive short story, ‘In the Grim Darkness’.

Each copy is individually signed by author Guy Haley and numbered from an edition of just 1,000. And it’s only available to order from blacklibrary.com, from this Saturday.

**CragHack**

What's the price? I would buy it just for the small rulebook, fancy datacards, objective markers ant the range finder.

**ClockworkZion**

Leth wrote:
From what I can gather, and the horrible restrictions they placed ONLY on the deathwatch. Really, our terimnator captains cant take any options but every other space marine captain can.......RIGHT.......same with razorbacks and some FW bits only options.

The indexs are for units that have models AT LAUNCH. From what I can gather once the primaris are released and their plastic kits are released they will have a bunch more options for their characters and models.

For example in the death guard list the fluff specifically mentions that death guard have lots of terminators as a primary part of their attack forces. Yet their current list does not allow them to take terminators. Well what do we know that is coming but has not been released yet? Death guard terminator equivalents. I plan to hold off on assembling my primaris marines until their codex drops and we can see all the options. I bet the hellblaster squad and the inceptor squads will have more weapon options going forward.

One of the things that I am bothered by is the fact that blood angels assault marines lost their meltaguns. I was expecting all assault marines to finally get them. I personally plan to petition them to drop the "model only" policy when so many things are easily kitbashed.

Same with things like generic chapter masters and wolf lords disappearing. The only ones that stayed are ones that had models(like special characters)

Drop pod points make no god damn sense and the terminator restriction goes against the space wolf fluff completely.

So we will see. Cant wait till pre-orders so I can message them about everything

Vanilla Librarians can also take Storm Shields, but they don't come in the blister pack for any of the Libbys.

Maybe there is a metal model lost somewhere with one and that's why they can have them, but kitbashing should be an option for every army in my book. I mean it's what I have to do to build proper Devastator Squads anyways.

**scatter**

Kriswall wrote:
scatter wrote:
I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.

Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?

2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?

Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?

General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?

THX!

You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.

Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.

But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...

**WarbossDakka**

CragHack wrote:
What's the price? I would buy it just for the small rulebook, fancy datacards, objective markers ant the range finder.

This, maybe minus the objective markers (I think I have a range finder somewhere too). Hopefully they come out with them individually, especially the mini rulebook.

**CthuluIsSpy**

scatter wrote:
Kriswall wrote:
scatter wrote:
I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.

Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?

2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?

Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?

General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?

THX!

You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.

Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.

But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...

Apparently the indexes are just to update all of the current models to 8th ed. Each faction will get their own codex eventually, with the new 8th ed units included.

**Youn**

They said that awhile ago. They mentioned that there will be codex for each faction. The reason for the Indices was to put out rules for each model they currently produce.

We don't currently have faction specific stratagems or FOC. Also, the current psychic rules are a tad bland for each faction.

**unmercifulconker**

I will buy that limited edition just for the extra artbook. I really need that. I hope it becomes available separately.

**Bonegrinder**

CragHack wrote:
What's the price? I would buy it just for the small rulebook, fancy datacards, objective markers ant the range finder.

Rumoured price of £250, but that sounds high, even for good ol' Games Workshop.

**WarbossDakka**

Last years was £200 after a quick Google search, so £250 wouldn't be too far off, but that is less expected from New GW. I'd expect it to be £150 - £200, but I guess rumor mills know more than I do. Lets just pray it's a bit less.

**ClockworkZion**

Bonegrinder wrote:
CragHack wrote:
What's the price? I would buy it just for the small rulebook, fancy datacards, objective markers ant the range finder.

Rumoured price of £250, but that sounds high, even for good ol' Games Workshop.

I'd believe it if that was the price in USD, but not in GBP. That seems far too high.

**ERJAK**

scatter wrote:
Kriswall wrote:
scatter wrote:
I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.

Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?

2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?

Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?

General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?

THX!

You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.

Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.

But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...

Your codex will overwrite the index as for chapter approved, no real idea what'll be in that. You also only need 12 pages of that 300pg rulebook and those will be free downloads.

**unmercifulconker**

The new art is just fething glorious. They are out.standing!!!!

Spoiler:

Templars represent!!!!!

This can't come soon enough, well I will have to wait longer since I wont be able to get down at launch!

**Daedalus81**

This just in from the stream - reserves count as a drop.

**ClockworkZion**

ERJAK wrote:
scatter wrote:
Kriswall wrote:
scatter wrote:
I have some questions to the leaked stuff. Haven't found answers so far yet.

Chaos:
1. I can't find the melt bomb anywhere in the Chaos index. Are they gone?

2. I can't find vehicle equitment like dirge casters and dozer blades. Are these things gone?

Orks:
1. The looted wagon is missing in the ork index part. Is it confirmed, that its gone?

General:
The indecis mention Legions and Marks for Chaos and Clan for Orks but those things are not described in the indices. Am i missing something, or will these come with codices?

THX!

You're not really missing anything. Lots of factions lost named units from supplements or White Dwarf exclusive stuff. You basically get your basic stuff with no fancy rules. The expectation is that we'll buy indexes now AND codexes later to get the full rules for our armies. The real question in my mind is how long will that take? 8th Edition drops 6/17. How many months/years until I have codexes in hand for my various armies? Who knows. Age of Sigmar has been out for ~2 years now and most of the factions don't have a full battletome. Given GW's history, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get a codex for my army for a couple of years.

Thx! I thought i missed something badly from the leaks. I guess that some codices will be released pretty soon while we will have to wait for some longer. I still hope, that most of them will be released till end of summer. They needed play testing and therefore i think they are already done and waiting for release.

But what i don't understand is the number of books now. Wasn't it somehow supposed or implicated to get less? So now we have the 300page rulebook, than index plus codex plus Chapter approved? I wanted to buy more models not an endless series of book and lug them around! Or the index will become obsolete very quickly. i don't know, but i hate that kind of thing...

Your codex will overwrite the index as for chapter approved, no real idea what'll be in that. You also only need 12 pages of that 300pg rulebook and those will be free downloads.

The only mission you get without the brb is the Only War one though. It's got about 50 pages of rules stuff for the game ranging from the core rules, to missions for all three game types, to battlefields you can use to shake the missions up. I'd say it's handy to have the actual core rule book and not just the free stuff, but then again I'm the biased sort who likes having my own book on hand to use instead of borrowing all the time.