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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Damn, no love for Space Wolves here


I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?

Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.


Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.

My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

The Tarox, Girlyman and whatever new magic unit the Marines are going to get.
The Rough Riders, or at least the current models
Sisters of Battle. Either love them or let them die.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
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The entire Eldar faction as well as the sister of battle line up.

Ultramarine 6000 : Imperial Knights 1700 : Grey Knights 1000 : Ad mech 500 :Nids 4000 : Necrons 500 : Death watch 500 
   
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In My Lab

Absolutely nothing. Models should be updated, but no one should have put in hours of effort, all for naught because their models just go away.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
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Toledo, OH

 Polonius wrote:
 Ronin_eX wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.


Yeah, terminators could use more weapon options...

They are, in my mind, probably the weirdest addition to any list in the last decade or so. They basically step all over the feet of terminators in terms of style and role, and they manage to look like in the process.

They basically made some kind of half-step between marine and dreadnaught where one already existed and then did it in a way to make them immediately better than terminators (more survivable, more firepower, etc.).

Sadly they are out of the bag and there aren't many ways to fix them without completely invalidating what people bought and built. But if there was one unit I wish to see thrown in to the wood chipper, it is Centurions. As it is, they overlap too much with pre-existing units that have traditionally sucked, so they formed this double-whammy of "why didn't you just fix terminators and dreadnaughts?"

What's worse, if this edition does fix those two, then what the hell is the Centurion's purpose at that point? And if the Centurion still does the job of either/both, then that means they haven't fixed the others. It is a Catch 22 at this point. No matter what they do, one of those three units wont pull its weight and there will be a pointless unit in the codex.


Well, lets be real: they'd be fine as mobile platforms for heavy bolters and lascannons. It's the gravcannons, which erase units, that really eclipses terminators and dreads. Centurions are the most survivable mobile firepower, and with drop pods, they are even more mobile!

So, if you asked me to fix them, I'd make them 4 wound, T5, 3+ save models. This makes terminators more resilient on a per wound basis. I would also make dreadnought weapons more powerful. For example, more shots on high volume weapons, or extra rend or wounds on the lascannon. For terminators, I'd up their overall firepower, by making storm bolters Assault 3 Rend -1.

the real question is if they actually try to limit the amount of heavy weapons in 8th. Units like centurions are very 6th/7th edition, everybody has the biggest possible gun, while terminators are an old school, one special per five man deal.


Thinking about it, there actually is an ecological niche for Centurions: that of the light walker. Think Killa Kans, War Walkers, Sentinels. Not as durable as a Dreadnought or MC, but more durable than even heavy infantry. And again, armed with lascannons or heavy bolters, with virtually no ability to fight in combat and slow speed, they would be a highly specialized unit. Of course, tehy were given access to a drop pod and a ludicrously unbalanced gun, so they became an admittedly expensive, but reliable, magic eraser.

If they lose access to pods, and Gravcannons are toned down, they stay similar to the oblits or even War Walkers, as high firepower units that want to avoid anything getting close.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Kill whatever models they need to kill, but keep an opening entry-wise for those models to continue on under a different guise for the players who have accumulated them.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Has anyone mentioned Dreadknights yet? Or did the Wolves steal all that THUNDER again?

Also I dislike the Librarian Dread, the Mega-speeders the DAs have, Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Knights (normal Deathwing and Ravenwing were suppose to be terminator/biker Plus already), the Stormsurge and Riptide (the original lore said that Tau specifically avoided anything bigger than a Broadside because they thought mechs larger than that was impractical, the Riptide and Stormsurge existing, let alone the Ta'aunar, are basically flying in the face of that characterization), Necron Tomb Blades (they look like necron warriors riding Mr Garrison's bike), and the Maleceptor and Toxicrene.

Especially the Stormsurge. If that thing isn't removed it should at least be redesigned. It's a giant weiner with chicken legs.

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Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
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Powerful Pegasus Knight





full mech suit armies for the tau should go away and never come back. If you want to play with a bunch of mechs go play gundum or battletech, not 40k.
   
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Squats should remain dead.
   
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 John Prins wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The Exorcist is by far the best tank model GW makes. I will fight you on that.


Yes, marvel at its beauty...


...oh, wait...


Pretty sure he meant this one and I also love it



Urgh how could I have forgotton the Dreadkinght / Baby Carrier - another one I hate.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 Polonius wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
 Ronin_eX wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.


Yeah, terminators could use more weapon options...

They are, in my mind, probably the weirdest addition to any list in the last decade or so. They basically step all over the feet of terminators in terms of style and role, and they manage to look like in the process.

They basically made some kind of half-step between marine and dreadnaught where one already existed and then did it in a way to make them immediately better than terminators (more survivable, more firepower, etc.).

Sadly they are out of the bag and there aren't many ways to fix them without completely invalidating what people bought and built. But if there was one unit I wish to see thrown in to the wood chipper, it is Centurions. As it is, they overlap too much with pre-existing units that have traditionally sucked, so they formed this double-whammy of "why didn't you just fix terminators and dreadnaughts?"

What's worse, if this edition does fix those two, then what the hell is the Centurion's purpose at that point? And if the Centurion still does the job of either/both, then that means they haven't fixed the others. It is a Catch 22 at this point. No matter what they do, one of those three units wont pull its weight and there will be a pointless unit in the codex.


Well, lets be real: they'd be fine as mobile platforms for heavy bolters and lascannons. It's the gravcannons, which erase units, that really eclipses terminators and dreads. Centurions are the most survivable mobile firepower, and with drop pods, they are even more mobile!

So, if you asked me to fix them, I'd make them 4 wound, T5, 3+ save models. This makes terminators more resilient on a per wound basis. I would also make dreadnought weapons more powerful. For example, more shots on high volume weapons, or extra rend or wounds on the lascannon. For terminators, I'd up their overall firepower, by making storm bolters Assault 3 Rend -1.

the real question is if they actually try to limit the amount of heavy weapons in 8th. Units like centurions are very 6th/7th edition, everybody has the biggest possible gun, while terminators are an old school, one special per five man deal.


Thinking about it, there actually is an ecological niche for Centurions: that of the light walker. Think Killa Kans, War Walkers, Sentinels. Not as durable as a Dreadnought or MC, but more durable than even heavy infantry. And again, armed with lascannons or heavy bolters, with virtually no ability to fight in combat and slow speed, they would be a highly specialized unit. Of course, tehy were given access to a drop pod and a ludicrously unbalanced gun, so they became an admittedly expensive, but reliable, magic eraser.

If they lose access to pods, and Gravcannons are toned down, they stay similar to the oblits or even War Walkers, as high firepower units that want to avoid anything getting close.

To be fair, Grav-Cannons were basically the only thing keeping Marines "in the game" effectively.

And they did not have access to Drop Pods natively. You had to bring them as Fast Attack choices.
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Forgeworld's Sanctorum Exorcist is pretty decent. I always thought the launcher box looked a little small for Str.8 AP1, though, and it looks a bit much like a Whirlwind. It looks military, which I can appreciate.

But I really do like the pipe organ tank.


It would have made a lot more sense if they called it a mortar, or if they had made it an angled bank of tubes rather than a straight up series. I like the gunner's position and the rest of the vehicle, but I think they went a bit too literal for the concept. If I was going to field an Exorcist, I'd rob Whirlwinds as others have.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Pretty sure he meant this one and I also love it


That was the joke.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/10 00:35:28




Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in ca
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





 Verviedi wrote:
How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?

It would feel like GW just went out of business.

Ultramarine 6000 : Imperial Knights 1700 : Grey Knights 1000 : Ad mech 500 :Nids 4000 : Necrons 500 : Death watch 500 
   
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle






 Verviedi wrote:
How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?

It's not like Space Marine players make the calls at GW...

 
   
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 John Prins wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Forgeworld's Sanctorum Exorcist is pretty decent. I always thought the launcher box looked a little small for Str.8 AP1, though, and it looks a bit much like a Whirlwind. It looks military, which I can appreciate.

But I really do like the pipe organ tank.


It would have made a lot more sense if they called it a mortar, or if they had made it an angled bank of tubes rather than a straight up series. I like the gunner's position and the rest of the vehicle, but I think they went a bit too literal for the concept. If I was going to field an Exorcist, I'd rob Whirlwinds as others have.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Pretty sure he meant this one and I also love it


That was the joke.


The pipe organ is my favorite part!

As I understand it, the rocket is fired from the tube, arcs up and over and down on the top of the target. Or it goes up, stages, then travels horizontally before diving on the target like a cruise missile. The rockets are definitely guided missiles.

The thing with the Sanctorum Exorcist is that it's just sort of plain. It doesn't capture the same spirit the Prioris Exorcist does. The pipe-organ on a tank is so wonderfully appropriate for the army and for the setting, and the model itself is so pretty with the angel relief panels, scrolls, and pipes. The gunner operates the organ with a keyboard!

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/05/10 01:04:05


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


The pipe organ is my favorite part!


I'd love it if it WAS a pipe organ that did something sonic. My main problem is that it doesn't look like a missile launcher, and that in a miniatures wargame is IMO a bad design decision. But 40K is full of impractical design decisions, but this is a bit too far on the end of the scale for my tastes.

   
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The Dog-house

 Verviedi wrote:
How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?

There's a Fires of Cyraxus meme floating around here for a reason you know

H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
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 John Prins wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


The pipe organ is my favorite part!


I'd love it if it WAS a pipe organ that did something sonic. My main problem is that it doesn't look like a missile launcher, and that in a miniatures wargame is IMO a bad design decision. But 40K is full of impractical design decisions, but this is a bit too far on the end of the scale for my tastes.


It's wonderfully ironic, and it is a pipe organ. And it's a great design decision. Without it, we'd be "Space Marines, but -4 STR". It sets us apart from the Marines, and characterizes our force very well.

Rocket launcher vehicles have had such creative names as "Stalin's Organ", and "Calliope" because of the sounds they make and the fact they're basically a collection of pipes on top of a tank. I think it's fairly clearly a rocket tank; when I first saw it I knew immediately what it was supposed to be, and fell in love with it. Ships launch missiles vertically anyway, so it's not really a huge problem for the tank to be doing it.

Finally, if you missed the whole call out to historical rocket vehicles, the model does have a visible magazine loaded with rockets, and underneath the assembly several of the pipes have their breeches open for loading, with rockets in some of them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/10 02:14:57


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
 Verviedi wrote:
How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?

There's a Fires of Cyraxus meme floating around here for a reason you know

I made that meme. Bow down.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/10 03:19:40




Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
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very silly that people will claim that a type of force looks dumb. Aesthetics is a personal thing. I love the Eldar aesthetic, to me it's by far the best one in the range, even with some of the older models. I wouldn't try telling someone their chosen army looks cack.

As for models/ideas, I wish they'd lose noise marines. They seem really goofy to me. I'm a Slaanesh fan, love the demons, love the concept, but can't get myself around noise marines. Hope they get remodeled.
   
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Working on it

Half of the Necron characters, specifically Imotekh. Oh and Destroyers too...

Centurions and Thunderfire Cannons, they just seem unnecessary. Hunters and Stalkers as well.

Baby Carrier. I think the Space Wolves are alright, and I find the Sleigh to funny to want removed

Yeah, Taurox. Harlequins in general. the Chaos Defiler, Mutilators/Obliterators.

Dark Eldar things like Drazhar, and the beast things, and most of the Archon's Court.

Other than that everything is tolerable


<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator

 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

What needs to go?

Anyone who got elected as the mayor of MurderTown because of his impressive MurderClaws and MurderFace. Murder.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
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Perth

While the space wolves are OTT with all the wolfy thematic stuff, they are one of the only space marine chapters I actually like, because they are not 99% identical to every other chapter. They have flair and character.

I realise that all power armour is the same, but look at CSM. The variation of those power clad armies is much more than the imperium. They have better looking units and better vehicles.

Its frustrating, space marines get the lions share of GW's attention and love, yet they look identical to each other for the most part. They drive about in boxes, flanked by bigger boxes, or come out of the sky in circular boxes. Then they depart and its either power armour, bigger power armour, or even bigger power armour. Or walking boxes.

So. Incredibly. Boring. (and I play necrons )

Every other faction has much more depth of character and better looking models (as a whole) than the SM. SM have more sub-factions than any other army. Yet they are all extremely alike. Granted their rules, fluff and play styles may be different, but they look exactly the same.

Ynnari - CWE, DE, Harlequins - all are unique, different from each other and internally varied
Tyranids/GSC - both are unique, different from each other and internally varied
Chaos - 4 seperate gods - all are unique, different from each other and internally varied
AdMech - Skitarii and cult mechanicus - both are unique, different from each other and internally varied

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/10 04:32:16


12,000
 
   
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Armageddon

Its a good thing GW doesn't take tips from Dakkadakka, or else we would all be playing 5th edition imperium.

I still to this day do not understand why people think alien races that existed and expanded eons before encountering humans should have anything resembling imperial gothic grimdark style. I like the fact that Tau and Eldar look so different.

In fact, I find the whole hyper religious christian aesthetic of Sisters to be super boring. Bolter nuns are just as stupid as Wolf Vikings.

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Working on it

 Don Savik wrote:
Its a good thing GW doesn't take tips from Dakkadakka, or else we would all be playing 5th edition imperium.

I still to this day do not understand why people think alien races that existed and expanded eons before encountering humans should have anything resembling imperial gothic grimdark style. I like the fact that Tau and Eldar look so different.

In fact, I find the whole hyper religious christian aesthetic of Sisters to be super boring. Bolter nuns are just as stupid as Wolf Vikings.


I agree whole heartedly with this. IMO the Space Wolves would have been far better off if they would have stuck with a generalised viking theme (Runes, animal (Eagle, Bear, etc.) symbols, and intricate knot work) not just the dog obsessed murder lords they are

Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/10 04:40:29


<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator

 
   
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 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Necron Tomb Blades (they look like necron warriors riding Mr Garrison's bike),


Oh feth! It's one of those 'once seen can't be unseen' things isn't it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Absolutely nothing. Models should be updated, but no one should have put in hours of effort, all for naught because their models just go away.


Utterly agree with this, even if there are some models that the majority think look ridiculous.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/10 06:08:34


 
   
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 Don Savik wrote:
Its a good thing GW doesn't take tips from Dakkadakka, or else we would all be playing 5th edition imperium.

I still to this day do not understand why people think alien races that existed and expanded eons before encountering humans should have anything resembling imperial gothic grimdark style. I like the fact that Tau and Eldar look so different.

In fact, I find the whole hyper religious christian aesthetic of Sisters to be super boring. Bolter nuns are just as stupid as Wolf Vikings.


I appreciate the difference too. It makes them alien. We're not expressing that we want them to look the same, we're expressing that they're inherently inferior because they're not our preferred artistic style.

We don't actually think any models should be removed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/10 06:09:29


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Exactly. I may think Murderfang is silly and over the top, but I get it that other people like that stuff and it should stick around.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




UK

Arcanis161 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Luciferian wrote:
Damn, no love for Space Wolves here


I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?

Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.


Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.

My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.


There's nothing stopping you building a Viking themed Space Wolf Army. You don't have to go the full wolfening.

 
   
 
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