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Ecdain wrote:

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Still no ruling on whether Commissars and the like interact with a pure Stormtrooper army. That's frustrating.

What's your Q? I think it's pretty clear personally.

If you have a commissar(or similar units that are in the list of not messing with doctrines) in a full stormstrooper army than everything but commissar still gets extra shots on 6s(stormtrooper bonus) as it states he doesn't ever get the bonus himself but he does not stop the rest of the detachment from getting the bonus. However if we are talking about militarum tempestus than the whole detachment has to very specifically be from tempestus NOT stormtrooper(even though it's same.bonus they are technically their own army)

The argument I've heard is that including a Commissar (or any non REGIMENT unit) in a Tempestus army negates the benefits of being pure Tempestus based on their specific regimental rules. I've heard it both way though, so was hoping the FAQ would clear it up.
Rules quote:
Note, however,
that the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS
units do not themselves benefit from any
Regimental Doctrine unless every unit in that
Detachment is from the Militarum Tempestus
(in which case they will gain the Storm
Troopers doctrine).

Yeah which means for tempestus you can't bring commissars and keep the doctrine, you can however include them in a stormtrooper detachment, and while the tempestus could be a part of the storm troopers detachment without messing with the other units, they themselves wouldn't benefit from it.

They seem have updated the forgeworld FAQ with one tiny question. But they failed to give the vendetta or vulture roving gunship. Someday I'm gonna use my vendetta's again.

Just a question-
How is everyone converting their Scion Plasma gunners?

Other than the default pointing finger pose, any suggestions to add some variety?

You could maybe use the plasma guy arms that come in the Cadian command Squad

Sikplex wrote:
Just a question-
How is everyone converting their Scion Plasma gunners?

Other than the default pointing finger pose, any suggestions to add some variety?

I used space marine plasma guns and the flamer/grenade launcher arm from Scion set to give them a shoulder slung look

Sikplex wrote:
Just a question-
How is everyone converting their Scion Plasma gunners?

Other than the default pointing finger pose, any suggestions to add some variety?

It may be taking it further than you would want to go, but I have bought some 30k Solar Auxilia Veletaris Storm section to serve as plasma-gunners (in a all plasma Command Squad).
Of course that's going to be a Count-as, since they're actually armed with Volkite, but they look very much like plasma guns, really. :-)

Make the coils blue and you should be fine

Sikplex wrote:
Just a question-
How is everyone converting their Scion Plasma gunners?

Other than the default pointing finger pose, any suggestions to add some variety?

Forge World hostile environment troopers mixed with Cadian bits.

So If I take a big squad of 30 conscripts, and screen my tanks with it. I use Prepared positions, and then the take cover strategem that unit of conscripts has a 3+ save on turn 1. That is pretty decent.

If I do the same to a unit of bullgryn with slab shields that unit has a 0+ save. So against a lascannon it's still a 3+. AKA the same that brute shields got you via take cover previously.

It's an interesting meta shift.

tag8833 wrote:
So If I take a big squad of 30 conscripts, and screen my tanks with it. I use Prepared positions, and then the take cover strategem that unit of conscripts has a 3+ save on turn 1. That is pretty decent.

If I do the same to a unit of bullgryn with slab shields that unit has a 0+ save. So against a lascannon it's still a 3+. AKA the same that brute shields got you via take cover previously.

It's an interesting meta shift.

i dont think you can stack Prepared Positions with any other cover save

 zedsdead wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
So If I take a big squad of 30 conscripts, and screen my tanks with it. I use Prepared positions, and then the take cover strategem that unit of conscripts has a 3+ save on turn 1. That is pretty decent.

If I do the same to a unit of bullgryn with slab shields that unit has a 0+ save. So against a lascannon it's still a 3+. AKA the same that brute shields got you via take cover previously.

It's an interesting meta shift.

i dont think you can stack Prepared Positions with any other cover save

Take Cover just adds to your save. It stacks with regular cover, which is what Prepared Positions gives, I believe.

What's the current take on Bullgryns? I know they've been nerfed, but are they still worth taking even if they're not crazy crazy good?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
So If I take a big squad of 30 conscripts, and screen my tanks with it. I use Prepared positions, and then the take cover strategem that unit of conscripts has a 3+ save on turn 1. That is pretty decent.

If I do the same to a unit of bullgryn with slab shields that unit has a 0+ save. So against a lascannon it's still a 3+. AKA the same that brute shields got you via take cover previously.

It's an interesting meta shift.

i dont think you can stack Prepared Positions with any other cover save

Take Cover just adds to your save. It stacks with regular cover, which is what Prepared Positions gives, I believe.

I agree. Take cover would stack with any cover save given by normal cover or the new strat, as Take Cover improves your save by 1, rather than, as the title implies, give you cover.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ladygolem wrote:
What's the current take on Bullgryns? I know they've been nerfed, but are they still worth taking even if they're not crazy crazy good?

They are still rocking a 1+ save in cover or with the +1 save from the strat or psychic power. So... If everything goes to plan you could have them rocking a -1 armour save if you really wanted to.

Ladygolem wrote:
What's the current take on Bullgryns? I know they've been nerfed, but are they still worth taking even if they're not crazy crazy good?

I think I'll keep using mine, but Celestine won't be bounding alongside turning them into big, dopey Terminators. I'll at least try them in a double-flamer Chimera with a Priest and maybe an Inquisitor to suppress Overwatch.

RE: Prepared Positions: for reference:

"A unit that is already receiving the benefit of cover gains no additional benefit from this stratagem."

But Take Cover is not cover.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
RE: Prepared Positions:

"A unit that is already receiving the benefit of cover gains no additional benefit from this stratagem."

Good thing the "Take Cover" stratagem has nothing to do with the benefit of cover. The name is confusing, but the strat is just (+1 save).

Was just throwing it out here so everyone could reference it directly, not saying the argument/rules interactions proposed are wrong. Though I would definitely expect some resistance, whether or not the person objecting is right or wrong.

Following the FAQ, do you think it's worth considering other Warlord traits, or is Grand Strategist still king even after the nerf?

 vipoid wrote:
Following the FAQ, do you think it's worth considering other Warlord traits, or is Grand Strategist still king even after the nerf?

For pure guard I think it was worth considering other WLT's even before the FAQ once batallions and brigades gave additional CP. Old Grudges helps a lot with all the deathstars out there, and draconian discipline is good for infantry armies that lack morale mehanics like cadians. Heck even the additional order one has it's uses for tank armies.

The thing is they're all more situational. There is no one size fits all anymore so you'll need to think about what your army does and which helps them the most. Which is good. Grand Strategist was way too powerful as it was written

One question
Are Tempestus Scions with plasma guns sufficient for AT duty?
Format is 1000 points so rule of 2 in effect. I was planning to run Tempestus batalion with 4 x Scion with 2 plasma guns and plasma pistol. Would it be sufficient or better add some lascannons/LRBT?

Also I was thinking about including Taurox with 2 autocannons or Salamander scout tank. They are kinda cheap (I could take 3 to 1000 pts game with ease) and autocannon is not so meh IMO against vehicles or Terminators/Primaris (D2).
Could You please help me with this? I'm thinking about nice 1000 pts mono guard with some mechanized support.

I tried running scion plasma command squads back when they were a thing and they never did a whole lot AT wise. They'd show up shave a couple wounds off a tank and then die. And against anything with hard to hit you're rerolling 1s won't save you I have discovered :(

 vipoid wrote:
Following the FAQ, do you think it's worth considering other Warlord traits, or is Grand Strategist still king even after the nerf?

If your CP hungry you'll still want it for the +1 CP per round most likely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gnollu wrote:
One question
Are Tempestus Scions with plasma guns sufficient for AT duty?
Format is 1000 points so rule of 2 in effect. I was planning to run Tempestus batalion with 4 x Scion with 2 plasma guns and plasma pistol. Would it be sufficient or better add some lascannons/LRBT?

Also I was thinking about including Taurox with 2 autocannons or Salamander scout tank. They are kinda cheap (I could take 3 to 1000 pts game with ease) and autocannon is not so meh IMO against vehicles or Terminators/Primaris (D2).
Could You please help me with this? I'm thinking about nice 1000 pts mono guard with some mechanized support.

The problem is your not coming in until turn 2 and may well not be in rapid fire range of the either.

They are nice for plunking off some extra wounds but you can't rely on them as your real AT.

 vipoid wrote:
Following the FAQ, do you think it's worth considering other Warlord traits, or is Grand Strategist still king even after the nerf?

Yes mostly because the aquilla will give you the 1 a turn often enough.

Old grudges is really atrong for pure AM but id consider something from your allies

I'm thinking about keeping Grand Strategist and taking the Lost Relic of Cadia....so good against Chaos....

Re-rolling 1's to wound for a turn with the relic is amazing against all armies. IG have probably the most high Str weapons where you are looking at 2+ or 3+ to wound all the time (making rerolling 1s very helpful).

I prefer to use Old Grudges if there is Castellan on the other side of the table. Then unveil the Relic of Lost Cadia on turn 2. Re-rolling to hit is easy to get. But re-rolling wounds is much more satisfying.

Hi thinking of starting a guard army, was looking to run a Scion unit in a catachan detachment. I understand the scions can't be ordered or benefit from catachan doctrine but also don't break it.
What I can't establish is if I take a tempestor prime as a hq choice can the prime issue orders to the scions or not?
Thanks

Abaddon303 wrote:
Hi thinking of starting a guard army, was looking to run a Scion unit in a catachan detachment. I understand the scions can't be ordered or benefit from catachan doctrine but also don't break it.
What I can't establish is if I take a tempestor prime as a hq choice can the prime issue orders to the scions or not?
Thanks

Yes since the Prime and Scions share the same Regiment keyword (militarum Tempestus)

Abaddon303 wrote:
Hi thinking of starting a guard army, was looking to run a Scion unit in a catachan detachment. I understand the scions can't be ordered or benefit from catachan doctrine but also don't break it.
What I can't establish is if I take a tempestor prime as a hq choice can the prime issue orders to the scions or not?
Thanks

Yes he can.

the regimental rules are a little wonky, but basically the only thing you ever "lose" is the regimental doctrine. No matter what else happens, the other rules on the data sheet, strategems, etc. all work as normal.