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Use the AM datasheet

U02dah4 wrote:
Use the AM datasheet

Chapter approved overrode it. You can see it in the sisters beta codex section. So they now use the new faith point system instead of the old one.

Where does it say the datasheet in the AM codex is overridden.

It overode the datasheet in the SoB index 2 but the datasheet in the AM Codex is current with the right keyword

U02dah4 wrote:
Where does it say the datasheet in the AM codex is overridden.

It overode the datasheet in the SoB index 2 but the datasheet in the AM Codex is current with the right keyword

It says it in the Designers Note on Page 69 of Chapter Approved, at the beginning of the Adepta Sororitas Beta Codex section. It specifically calls out the Crusaders, and explicitly instructs Astra Militarum players to use the Datasheet from the beta Codex.

Its phrased as a request based on them wanting feedback not a requirement.

The current sheets in the Guard codex can't be overwritten, as the Sister's codex is still only a beta. Sure, you are free to use it but it isn't "compulsory", like a true codex would be. Of course, the concept of "compulsory" is a bit woolly anyway.

"if you are using Crusaders as part of an Astra Militarum army, please use the datasheet and all rules for them as presented in this beta codex until the full Codex: Adepta Sororitas is published, whereupon we will also make any necessary updates to Codex: Astra Militarum ."

I suppose the inclusion of the word please does make it a request. It's still naff to keep using the AM one though, since there is a more recently published set of rules you are being asked to use by the designer lmao

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"if you are using Crusaders as part of an Astra Militarum army, please use the datasheet and all rules for them as presented in this beta codex until the full Codex: Adepta Sororitas is published, whereupon we will also make any necessary updates to Codex: Astra Militarum ."

I suppose the inclusion of the word please does make it a request. It's still naff to keep using the AM one though, since there is a more recently published set of rules you are being asked to use by the designer lmao

Some people go to any length to break a thing to win or to point at the developers and call them stupid for using polite language and giving even the tiniest wiggle room. The problem with that is, of course, you can always find someone dumb enough to fail at reading a rule and still do this

I'd give benefit of the doubt to just about anyone playing IG who is still using the old Crusader datasheet to be unaware that there was an updated one in the SoB codex.

I mean, it's an IG player; not a SoB player.

List building question... I've got Pask, 2 tank commanders, and a Shadowsword in my army. I have the points left to add a 3rd Tank Commander and a Scout Sentinel, or a pair of Hellhounds. I'm thinking the Hellhounds are the better choice, but I'd like a second opinion on that.

 Horst wrote:
List building question... I've got Pask, 2 tank commanders, and a Shadowsword in my army. I have the points left to add a 3rd Tank Commander and a Scout Sentinel, or a pair of Hellhounds. I'm thinking the Hellhounds are the better choice, but I'd like a second opinion on that.

Is that the whole army? Or are there other screening/support units?

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Horst wrote:
List building question... I've got Pask, 2 tank commanders, and a Shadowsword in my army. I have the points left to add a 3rd Tank Commander and a Scout Sentinel, or a pair of Hellhounds. I'm thinking the Hellhounds are the better choice, but I'd like a second opinion on that.

Is that the whole army? Or are there other screening/support units?

Rest of the army is Shadowsword, Pask, 2 Tank Commanders, 2 Armored Sentinels, 1 Basilisk, 2 Mortar HWS, 2 astropath, 1 techpriest, 3 company commander, 80 infantry.

 daedalus wrote:
I'd give benefit of the doubt to just about anyone playing IG who is still using the old Crusader datasheet to be unaware that there was an updated one in the SoB codex.

I mean, it's an IG player; not a SoB player.

Yeah I'm kind of surprised I even noticed it. It's in a weird spot. I would've never noticed it if I hadn't been interested in running sisters and was reading through their beta dex. They're not listed in the updated profiles in the back if I remember right so it's easy to miss.

That said I feel it's pretty clear that the sister version is the official version now. Maybe not *technically* mandatory I wouldn't be surprised if they put a faq out saying that's the official profile now.

Yeah i wasnt aware of the request / change myself. I dont have sisters of battle, never bothered to look at the beta dex because no one in the local meta has them either. Still, good to know.

I wouldn't expect them to know right away, but if I pointed it out to them, I'd expect them to start using the new Datasheet (though perhaps not literally midway through our game).

I would also probably mention it before the game, and if it requires any list changes, I'd allow them the luxury as well, if I think they're using crusaders (e.g. pulling them out of a pack, showing me their list, etc).

The only problem is if they don't have a copy of CA2018, but then I reserve the right to make fun of them for using the new points but not actually having the rules

I have chapter approved 2018, but again i haven't bothered to look at the sisters beta codex much. Acts of faith seem like a pain in the butt to keep track of on top of command points. But whatever, this is a AM tactics thread not sisters. I will have to look at the book later and decide if its worth crusaders with the changes or not.

But since we are talking about sisters of battle anyone have any experience with mixing them into astra militarum? I would love to have my old witch hunters force back again. A few sisters (not just celestine and her 2 bff's) in a force instead of space marines could work out better points wise for getting more bodies on the field...

Azuza001 wrote:
I have chapter approved 2018, but again i haven't bothered to look at the sisters beta codex much. Acts of faith seem like a pain in the butt to keep track of on top of command points. But whatever, this is a AM tactics thread not sisters. I will have to look at the book later and decide if its worth crusaders with the changes or not.

But since we are talking about sisters of battle anyone have any experience with mixing them into astra militarum? I would love to have my old witch hunters force back again. A few sisters (not just celestine and her 2 bff's) in a force instead of space marines could work out better points wise for getting more bodies on the field...

I play both Astra Militarum and Sororitas, and I can tell you now that Sororitas, while terrible as a mono army ( ) are fantastic as soup. They have a relic that can give every single <ORDER> unit a deny on a 2d6, so you can get an entire Battalion of 2d6 deny-the-witch units. You also get access to the Purity of Faith stratagem, which automatically denies a psychic power on a 4+ because the Sororitas said so. Lastly, you get a strat to re-roll wounds against Psykers, giving you a fairly cheap way to shut down enemy psychic armies, especially combined with native Deny-the-Witch from the cheapo IG psykers.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I have chapter approved 2018, but again i haven't bothered to look at the sisters beta codex much. Acts of faith seem like a pain in the butt to keep track of on top of command points. But whatever, this is a AM tactics thread not sisters. I will have to look at the book later and decide if its worth crusaders with the changes or not.

But since we are talking about sisters of battle anyone have any experience with mixing them into astra militarum? I would love to have my old witch hunters force back again. A few sisters (not just celestine and her 2 bff's) in a force instead of space marines could work out better points wise for getting more bodies on the field...

I play both Astra Militarum and Sororitas, and I can tell you now that Sororitas, while terrible as a mono army ( ) are fantastic as soup. They have a relic that can give every single <ORDER> unit a deny on a 2d6, so you can get an entire Battalion of 2d6 deny-the-witch units. You also get access to the Purity of Faith stratagem, which automatically denies a psychic power on a 4+ because the Sororitas said so. Lastly, you get a strat to re-roll wounds against Psykers, giving you a fairly cheap way to shut down enemy psychic armies, especially combined with native Deny-the-Witch from the cheapo IG psykers.

Wow, that's awesome - now if GW would just come out with plastic infantry...$80 for 10 models is a bit steep

 necron99 wrote:

Wow, that's awesome - now if GW would just come out with plastic infantry...$80 for 10 models is a bit steep

Only 7 of the models in that set are actually useful to the standard Devoted17 loadout, so you'd actually be better off buying the models individually for $10 each.

That said, I wouldn't suggest even considering buying the models for $10 each, and recommend using proxies instead.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 necron99 wrote:

Wow, that's awesome - now if GW would just come out with plastic infantry...$80 for 10 models is a bit steep

Only 7 of the models in that set are actually useful to the standard Devoted17 loadout, so you'd actually be better off buying the models individually for $10 each.

That said, I wouldn't suggest even considering buying the models for $10 each, and recommend using proxies instead.

...or apparently wait a couple of months and proxy in the meantime as I just saw on warhammer community they're coming out with SOB on sprue

stratigo wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"if you are using Crusaders as part of an Astra Militarum army, please use the datasheet and all rules for them as presented in this beta codex until the full Codex: Adepta Sororitas is published, whereupon we will also make any necessary updates to Codex: Astra Militarum ."

I suppose the inclusion of the word please does make it a request. It's still naff to keep using the AM one though, since there is a more recently published set of rules you are being asked to use by the designer lmao

Some people go to any length to break a thing to win or to point at the developers and call them stupid for using polite language and giving even the tiniest wiggle room. The problem with that is, of course, you can always find someone dumb enough to fail at reading a rule and still do this

Largely depends also on tournament/group. Not everybody use beta rules after all. Expecting BETA rules to be default option is bit of odd to begin with

tneva82 wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"if you are using Crusaders as part of an Astra Militarum army, please use the datasheet and all rules for them as presented in this beta codex until the full Codex: Adepta Sororitas is published, whereupon we will also make any necessary updates to Codex: Astra Militarum ."

I suppose the inclusion of the word please does make it a request. It's still naff to keep using the AM one though, since there is a more recently published set of rules you are being asked to use by the designer lmao

Some people go to any length to break a thing to win or to point at the developers and call them stupid for using polite language and giving even the tiniest wiggle room. The problem with that is, of course, you can always find someone dumb enough to fail at reading a rule and still do this

Largely depends also on tournament/group. Not everybody use beta rules after all. Expecting BETA rules to be default option is bit of odd to begin with

I assume those same groups would allow me to use the much stronger Index Sororitas rather than the currently weak beta codex then?

tneva82 wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"if you are using Crusaders as part of an Astra Militarum army, please use the datasheet and all rules for them as presented in this beta codex until the full Codex: Adepta Sororitas is published, whereupon we will also make any necessary updates to Codex: Astra Militarum ."

I suppose the inclusion of the word please does make it a request. It's still naff to keep using the AM one though, since there is a more recently published set of rules you are being asked to use by the designer lmao

Some people go to any length to break a thing to win or to point at the developers and call them stupid for using polite language and giving even the tiniest wiggle room. The problem with that is, of course, you can always find someone dumb enough to fail at reading a rule and still do this

Largely depends also on tournament/group. Not everybody use beta rules after all. Expecting BETA rules to be default option is bit of odd to begin with

In most cases that would be true but poor sisters of battle always seem to get the short end of the stick...I mean really a beta codex?! I think SOB has a legitimate sexual harassment suit against GW. It will force TOs all over the world into making that decision which just seems silly to me...beta codex...good grief....like GW never came out with a crappy codex or an OP codex before.

Even beta rules being permitted nothing in the am book or faq removes it.

The intention as stated is to change it in the am faq in the final version however until they do its legal

Sure they would like for us to playtest their new rules for feedback but if im travelling to a tourney im takeing the best availiable list and the old crusaders are better.

anyone tried 9 plasma sentinels yet? they seem very very good for the points.

Im considering running them in a brigade, alongside a supreme command of pask and 2 TC's all with BC and hbolters. 6 infantry creed and 2 comp C. 3 plat C. 3 mortar teams and a valkyrie. Crusader knight. Cadian.

This list covers armor/horde/elite and would seem on paper to cover the new changes to CA with massive board control.

14 vehicles also offer a lot of hard choices for target priority.

Eh, I think I'd rather have more Russe's personally, just for the fact that a 1 doesn't mean I lose up to 6 wounds. With the amount of -1 out there, I like the ability to overcharge even though I know I overheat on 2's and not die due to a 2 or 1.

A bog standard executioner with plasma sponsons is roughly equal in cost to 4 plasma armored sentinels. The Russ can move and fire 2/3rds of it's guns without penalty in every regiment, and with Tallarn it becomes a wash. Russe's get tank orders, sentinels do not. Russes have much higher Toughness to shrug off things like missile launchers and autocannons, armored sentinels can be hurt by far more weapons. The Russ does have half the wounds though, I agree that is a big benefit for sentinels. From there you're deciding if you like 2d6+2d3 plasma shots and a heavy bolter, or 4d3 plasma shots. Keep in mind that's a bog standard tank I'm using as comparison, not a commander. Executioner gets you halfway to the 5th sentinel but now you have bs3 and order itself vs roughly 2-2/12 times it's wounds. So I guess it depends on what you want to do.

My problem with sentinels as a fire support unit is they take up a massive footprint and I don't think they synergize well with Russe's or infantry, my main units. I think they'd do far better in a mechanized/artillery list, where everything is T6-7 and you can really saturate that mid range. At that point you're just going for it and if you mix them with hellhounds, flamer chimeras, and manticore/basilisks in the backline it could make them much more difficult to deal with.

Since I mainly run infantry and Russe's, I have little reason to run sentinels. In a pure infantry list every weapon heavier than a bolter murders them since it has nothing better to do. In a tank list they attract all the guns that normally would just struggle to pen my tanks. In a balanced infantry/Russ list they start to hurt your ability to overwhelm target priority by providing nice little profiles that every weapon your opponent takes should have some use for.

Tl;Dr I can see them working well for mechanized with lots of T6-7 vehicles, but if you're planning on mixing them with Russe's and guardsmen I don't think it would work well.

Plasma sentinels are great in a cadian army to fill up a brigade, my 2000 pt list has 2 of them and they've performed well so far. They're small priority compared to the russes or hellhounds, so they don't get bothered. Running 9 of them could be cool, but like moustaffa said, minus to hit kills them, so I'm not sure that's a great way to go.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Where does it say the datasheet in the AM codex is overridden.

It overode the datasheet in the SoB index 2 but the datasheet in the AM Codex is current with the right keyword

It says it in the Designers Note on Page 69 of Chapter Approved, at the beginning of the Adepta Sororitas Beta Codex section. It specifically calls out the Crusaders, and explicitly instructs Astra Militarum players to use the Datasheet from the beta Codex.

Does that me we also need to abide by the footnote on p94, saying that a detachment without any Ministorum Priests can only include one unit of Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave unit (one of which is Crusaders)?

No the only limit on crusaders in the am codex or faq is rule of 3. P69 is not mandatory

With all the talk of ecclesiarchy units it's just reminded me, can Uriah Jacobus be taken as a HQ in a guard force as he has the astra militarum key word? Or does he break the doctrines/battleforged somehow?
With the price drop he might be worth while if your some how struggling to fill a HQ slot or could work nicely with a catachan force instead of a normal priest by boosting their leadership along with their officers for a +2.