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Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





CO

What armies have you been facing? I am curious to hear more details about how you have been fairing. And we need some pics of such a show of force!

I think the issues for lists with that many Leman Russes is pretty obvious, and I thought, crippling. Seems difficult to kit them out to deal with the Imperial Soup knight lists, -1 to hit Eldar Soup lists, and at the same time, being kitted out to deal with Ork hordes.

I've ran some tank heavy lists and the problems were the fact if they get taken down just 1 bracket they are basically bricks. If anything tags them in CC, they are done for at least the next turn. And I had some difficulty getting out of my deployment zone to actually score OBJs.

5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut





Mainly armies that can get into your lines on t1 so probably orks and daemons I would think. Would be interesting to see how you go with knight lists that run triple gallants.

What are you running?
10 Russ in two battalions with 60 infantry for screen and 13cp
or
12 Russ in two spearheads and 5cp

I think the first list might be better?
   
Made in cz
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




CZ

Armoured leman list would most probably fail against anything top competitive.

How would it deal with multiple knight list, or plaguebearer bloodletter spam with princes, or eldars minus to hit lists with shining spears or reapers, or harlequins ynnari, or tyranids horde with GS, or many others which are seen casually in the tourney?

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I typically just drown them in shots.

Typically fielding 2 Punisher tank Commanders which deal with hordes quite nicely. (These are in a Battalion as Vostryoan.) (And with Old Grudges often puts not inconsiderable damage on knights.) Pask and another tank commander in an Executioner with 6 LR Executioners (or LR Conquerors) in a spearhead. Everything has Plasma Cannon Sponsons and HB in the body.

Gives me approx. 16d6 + 20d3 Str 8 -3 D2 shoots. That has been more then enough to deal with multiple knights. The 80 punisher shots with 30 HB shots tend to deal with hordes well enough.

Nobody really plays Eldar around here (And the few that do focus on Wraithguard). So maybe because I haven't run against the -1 to hits much (Main guy that has that is a Nid plays who runs a Zoanthrope Deathstar)

Honestly Typically by end of turn 2 I have most of my opponents conceding because they are out of units that can effectively hurt my tanks and I still have 7-8 left in good condition.

But again haven't taken a pure tank list to a tournament. (I have taken a Tank/Knight list of 5-6 LRs and 1 Gallant w/ 4 Warglaives that has won 2 local Tournaments and is currently undefeated.)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Except it isnt because you have to assume that they get the +1 to go first and if they do 3-5 russes are dieing so how.many shots are left.

Essentially its go first I can win go second I lose or they win 64% of the time

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/07 15:17:57


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





U02dah4 wrote:
Except it isnt becausr you have to assume that they get the +1 to go first and if they do 3-5 russes are dieing so how.many shots are left.

Essentially its go first I can win go second I lose or they win 64% of the time


I have rarely lost more the 1 Russ in a round of shooting. And My whole list is 10-11 drops. Most of the time I am going first and if I am not then with prepared positions each Russ is a T8 2+ with 12 wounds.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Been mulling over restructuring my spec op's themed dkok/am list (based around dkok in centaurs and valkyries) and trim it down into a smaller scions list now that they're slightly cheaper in order to be using less grey areas in rules and keep the army simpler.
The idea is to be taking two battalions that come to 1350pt in total, that act as inquisitorial storm troopers, the have 3 650pt detachments of the militant branches of the ordos, so sisters, deathwatch and grey knights that I can dip in and out of. The reason for this pts division is that it allows the 3 ordos detachments to also be fielded together with minimum changes in 2000pts with minimal changes if I ever feel like fielding all power armour for a change.

Using the new vigilus detachments I've come up with the following:
HQs:
Tempestor prime, command rod, power fist (grav-chute commando and laurels of command) 53pt
2x tempestor prime, command rod and power mauls 49pt each
Lord commissar, blade of of conquest (cp for bonus relic) 35pt

Troops:
2x 5 man scions, 2 plasma gun, plasma pistol and powerfist on sergeant 80 pt each
4x 5 man scions, 2 plasma gun, plasma pistol and maul on seageant 76pt each

Elites:
4 man bullgryn with slab shield and mauls 168pt

Flyers:
3x valkyries, multilaser, rocket pods, heavy bolters 137pt
1x valkyrie multilayer, rocket pods 121pt


Idea is very simple load up in the planes and alpha strike hard targets turn 1, cc weapons on them as they will be likely wiped out next turn so may as well charge them in as well to do maximum hurt and slightly increase odd of survival if they can get stuck in with something squishy to reduce the amount of fire power the enemy can point at them. Bullgryns are there for variety of models and play style while hopefully keeping a presence on the table until reinforcements can make it to the enemies deployment, will probably use grenadiers on bullgryn just so I can model the with shields and guns for the aesthetics and say it represents the grenades.

My biggest worries are having so many points wrapped up in valkyries as the enemy can just ignore them once they drop their payload ("boots on the ground" not counting as units on the table really hurts) so I don't know if it's worth dropping the bullgryn and a valk for a couple of 5 man squads in taurox for less alpha but more mid board presence.

Any advice on changes that could be made while keeping the points total and theme would be great.

For reference the gist of the ordos detachments are:

Sisters of battle out rider, 2 repreasors with melta dominions, immolator with canoness and storm bolter dominions

Grey Knights out rider, Shooty GMGK with 3 interceptor squads

Deathwatch battalion, librarian and watch master with 3 storm shield and storm bolter squads (feel like this detachment needs more punch)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Khadorstompy wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Except it isnt becausr you have to assume that they get the +1 to go first and if they do 3-5 russes are dieing so how.many shots are left.

Essentially its go first I can win go second I lose or they win 64% of the time


I have rarely lost more the 1 Russ in a round of shooting. And My whole list is 10-11 drops. Most of the time I am going first and if I am not then with prepared positions each Russ is a T8 2+ with 12 wounds.


Then you are either not playing vs competative lists or only playing lists that dont try to kill you. It is common to lose a knight in a turn and you are a lot squishier 38%ish of the time you are not first even with the +1 and there are certainly list similar or less in drops

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/07 21:16:53


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





U02dah4 wrote:
Khadorstompy wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Except it isnt becausr you have to assume that they get the +1 to go first and if they do 3-5 russes are dieing so how.many shots are left.

Essentially its go first I can win go second I lose or they win 64% of the time


I have rarely lost more the 1 Russ in a round of shooting. And My whole list is 10-11 drops. Most of the time I am going first and if I am not then with prepared positions each Russ is a T8 2+ with 12 wounds.


Then you are either not playing vs competative lists or only playing lists that dont try to kill you. It is common to lose a knight in a turn and you are a lot squishier 38%ish of the time you are not first even with the +1 and there are certainly list similar or less in drops


Maybe I'm not however you are being annoying and singularly unhelpful. You are stating random things with nothing to back them up. Just Randomly stating that I am going to be losing roughly half my army in the opening salvo. I don't find that realistic. If you would like to state some lists that are capable of that I would love to know I fully admit to not knowing if my gak would work at Top Tier but without explaining anything you are being useless. And yes I know its common to lose a knight in a turn I disagree however that my tanks are much squisher then a Knight turn 1. With a 2+ save even ap -3 weapons will have the same save as a Knight with only -4 weapons exceeding and my tanks having the advantage with AP -1 and -2. Yes Knights have their warlord trait and Rotate Ion shields which gives them the edge if they are running 1 or 2 knights, but not if they are fielding more then that I think the overall edge goes to the Tank Battalion.

   
Made in ca
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

Khadorstompy wrote:
I typically just drown them in shots.

Typically fielding 2 Punisher tank Commanders which deal with hordes quite nicely. (These are in a Battalion as Vostryoan.) (And with Old Grudges often puts not inconsiderable damage on knights.) Pask and another tank commander in an Executioner with 6 LR Executioners (or LR Conquerors) in a spearhead. Everything has Plasma Cannon Sponsons and HB in the body.

Gives me approx. 16d6 + 20d3 Str 8 -3 D2 shoots. That has been more then enough to deal with multiple knights. The 80 punisher shots with 30 HB shots tend to deal with hordes well enough.

Nobody really plays Eldar around here (And the few that do focus on Wraithguard). So maybe because I haven't run against the -1 to hits much (Main guy that has that is a Nid plays who runs a Zoanthrope Deathstar)

Honestly Typically by end of turn 2 I have most of my opponents conceding because they are out of units that can effectively hurt my tanks and I still have 7-8 left in good condition.

But again haven't taken a pure tank list to a tournament. (I have taken a Tank/Knight list of 5-6 LRs and 1 Gallant w/ 4 Warglaives that has won 2 local Tournaments and is currently undefeated.)


You dont have to kill tanks, just tie them up. Are you screening with guardsmen? That nid player needs to play kraken with some hormies and Genestealers and he can easily get 2 units on a T1 charge. I can wrap up a lot of tanks with 30 hormies and 20 GS. After thats its just a matter of time as you fallback and cant shoot, or have no where to fall back to, then by T2 or T3 the rest of my army is closing in.

Dont get me wrong, I think you have a solid answer to Knights, but how do you deal with T1 charge armies like Bloodletters or beserkers, Ork da Jump, and Kraken nids. If you don't go first its all over.
I have found locally that knights are in almost every imperium list. its a requirement to have a chance to place competitively.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Khadorstompy wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Khadorstompy wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Except it isnt becausr you have to assume that they get the +1 to go first and if they do 3-5 russes are dieing so how.many shots are left.

Essentially its go first I can win go second I lose or they win 64% of the time


I have rarely lost more the 1 Russ in a round of shooting. And My whole list is 10-11 drops. Most of the time I am going first and if I am not then with prepared positions each Russ is a T8 2+ with 12 wounds.


Then you are either not playing vs competative lists or only playing lists that dont try to kill you. It is common to lose a knight in a turn and you are a lot squishier 38%ish of the time you are not first even with the +1 and there are certainly list similar or less in drops


Maybe I'm not however you are being annoying and singularly unhelpful. You are stating random things with nothing to back them up. Just Randomly stating that I am going to be losing roughly half my army in the opening salvo. I don't find that realistic. If you would like to state some lists that are capable of that I would love to know I fully admit to not knowing if my gak would work at Top Tier but without explaining anything you are being useless. And yes I know its common to lose a knight in a turn I disagree however that my tanks are much squisher then a Knight turn 1. With a 2+ save even ap -3 weapons will have the same save as a Knight with only -4 weapons exceeding and my tanks having the advantage with AP -1 and -2. Yes Knights have their warlord trait and Rotate Ion shields which gives them the edge if they are running 1 or 2 knights, but not if they are fielding more then that I think the overall edge goes to the Tank Battalion.



Yes it is annoying and unhelpfull when real life gets in the way of a good idea but thats the way it works sometimes i took out 3 land raiders and two flyers in one round of shooting tonight with my admech list all tougher targets than a russ. I back it up with years of tourney experience. I play 4 armies and took knights to 4 tournies last year 33-50% of games i lost a knight turn 1 to shooting and thats tarranis with defensive buffs. Now you can ignore what I say because you don't like the message in which case best of luck but even with list saturation you will struggle

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/07 22:20:50


 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut





Khadorstompy wrote:

I have rarely lost more the 1 Russ in a round of shooting. And My whole list is 10-11 drops. Most of the time I am going first and if I am not then with prepared positions each Russ is a T8 2+ with 12 wounds.


If your meta means that you only lose max 1 Russ then a tank list is definitely going to be more viable. In other metas, losing at least 2 and having a 3rd or more degraded (likely to be all tank commanders and pask) then it becomes less viable.

If your meta and luck means you go first most of the time, then this will skew your result even more.

Statistically speaking, tank heavy armies aren't meta defining. If you think you are so good and lucky then take your tank list to a major GT and show the world what they are missing.


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





U02dah4 wrote:
Khadorstompy wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Khadorstompy wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
Except it isnt becausr you have to assume that they get the +1 to go first and if they do 3-5 russes are dieing so how.many shots are left.

Essentially its go first I can win go second I lose or they win 64% of the time


I have rarely lost more the 1 Russ in a round of shooting. And My whole list is 10-11 drops. Most of the time I am going first and if I am not then with prepared positions each Russ is a T8 2+ with 12 wounds.


Then you are either not playing vs competative lists or only playing lists that dont try to kill you. It is common to lose a knight in a turn and you are a lot squishier 38%ish of the time you are not first even with the +1 and there are certainly list similar or less in drops


Maybe I'm not however you are being annoying and singularly unhelpful. You are stating random things with nothing to back them up. Just Randomly stating that I am going to be losing roughly half my army in the opening salvo. I don't find that realistic. If you would like to state some lists that are capable of that I would love to know I fully admit to not knowing if my gak would work at Top Tier but without explaining anything you are being useless. And yes I know its common to lose a knight in a turn I disagree however that my tanks are much squisher then a Knight turn 1. With a 2+ save even ap -3 weapons will have the same save as a Knight with only -4 weapons exceeding and my tanks having the advantage with AP -1 and -2. Yes Knights have their warlord trait and Rotate Ion shields which gives them the edge if they are running 1 or 2 knights, but not if they are fielding more then that I think the overall edge goes to the Tank Battalion.



Yes it is annoying and unhelpfull when real life gets in the way of a good idea but thats the way it works sometimes i took out 3 land raiders and two flyers in one round of shooting tonight with my admech list all tougher targets than a russ. I back it up with years of tourney experience. I play 4 armies and took knights to 4 tournies last year 33-50% of games i lost a knight turn 1 to shooting and thats tarranis with defensive buffs. Now you can ignore what I say because you don't like the message in which case best of luck but even with list saturation you will struggle


Thats great that you can do that. I'm not disagreeing with it. What I am asking is HOW you are doing it. Like I said I don't see that kind of firepower in my locals and recognize that. But all you are stating is that it doesn't work and not WHY it doesn't work so I can adjust for what is going to be able to pop Russes so easily. What is showing up at tournaments consistently that needs to be addressed. One guy mentions a couple of units that can do turn 1 charges and try and tie up the Russes and what they use to do it. I have a few screens of guard Infantry for that and in those case know not to have my punishers too far frontline so If any Russes get locked I can fall back with them for a round and have the punishers clear out the assault units. You say your admech can clear out 5 russes or better in a single round of shooting. Great. HOW? I want to be 100% clear. I believe you. I need to know how you do it.
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut





Do you find all knight lists challenging? Say a list Castellan, Crusader and 2 Gallants. You'll have two gallants on your line turn 1 and likely to lose a couple of Russ from the Castellan and Crusader. Also less likely to go first.

Eldar lists with Shining Spears, Harlequins, flyers, Wave serpent spam, Alaitoc would be annoying.

Orks might give you some problems, units jumping on turn 1, deep striking on turn 2, and shooting lootas at you for days.

Triple Shadowsword is rare but I reckon you might struggle

Tau Riptides and Broadsides with drone spam.

The issue with 10+ Leman Russ ,on a field with decent terrain, is focus firing on threats.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/770716.page#10327919 is the list i used tonight

Assuming your in cover these give an expectancy of a dead russ from

4 Ryzaprones

9 breachers on eye of xi russ backed up by 1 ryzapron

2 neutron lasers + kastellan robots


That leaves over ballistarii and possibly TPD

Also note T2 (the infiltrators will 1 shot a russ)

now i got lucky tonight in that one vehicle exploded which added enough W to boost the total to 5 dead vehicles but given an exp of 3 dead russ + thats a 50% occurance

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/08 07:51:23


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Okay this is my assumptions and math. Unless I'm missing something Your Ryzaprones(Assuming this is the Plasma Culverin Destroyers) are going to do an average of 9.6 damage. (Assuming you are using the Ryza Strat on them and have Reroll 1s from Canticles or TPD. Now if you toss in the 5th Ryza that will give you 12 wounds on average)

The breachers deal 9.5 (Assuming Rerolls 1s to hit and Wound and +1 BS from Elimination volley though that wont effect all of them)

Neutron Lasers deal 6.9 damage on average (Rerolling ones anything else they get that I'm missing?)

Heavy Phosphors Kastelans (I assume they are on the Protector Protocal? So 36 shots rerolling 1s with +1 bs) 4.6 damage

Ironstrider do an average of 2.1

So assuming you go first your opening volley should deal roughly 35 points of damage close enough to your estimation.

Now my return volley.

The Remaining TC Punisher should wipe the Plasma Destroyers.

4 LR Executioners should Pop both Duncrawlers on Average (23.8 wounds)

Last 2 LRs Should Com within a Hairs breath of Killing the Kastelleans. (Average 11.9 damage)

So what you will have left is the Breachers (Who no longer have elimination volley or Eye) the Iron Striders and the Infiltrators. Breachers should Deal 8.2 damage Iron Striders 2.8

And the DP infiltrators assuming Wrath of Mars. 2.1 normal wounds and 6 mortal wounds.

Leaving me with Roughly 5 and 1/2 Russes left.

Now the issue might come down to with you getting opening volley and have a bigger footprint you might be able to grab all the objectives and I not be able to take enough back as I have to deal with your russ capable killing units before time is called. But I think as far is Firepower goes by end of turn 2 I don't think you will have enough left to threaten my remaining Russes.

Now I am NOT an admech player anymore (Played it in 7th not in 8th) so I probably missed a couple tricks that might tip the scale. Please let me know. Because I would like to try this or a simlar list at an ITC event and want to make sure I have my bases covered. I thank you for your help in this matter.

As for the Knights not really On average rolls even if I have lost 2 LRs (Assuming Pask and the Executioner TC) I can drop 2 knights in the return volley typically (With old Grudge if they Oathbreaker missle my warlord and take him out then in becomes a bit more dicey as I average only about 42 wounds at that point. But this also doesn't take into account the Cadian Stragatem). Assuming I lose 2 more then next turn Ill only be able to take out 1 the following turn but if thats the case then I'm likely only dealing with either a single gallant or Crusader left with me having 4 lemans left which should give me the edge and they should be running Dry on CP at that point.

Thank you again for the assistance in figuring out weakness in this list.

Triple Shadowsword I think wouldn't bee to much different from the Knights. Have to hope I can kill 2 shadow swords in the first round even if I'm down 3 LRs. 1 should be easy but if im down to 5 LRs by round 2 vs that I'm in trouble.

I have screens for 1st turn assault armies and as long as I don't let the Punishers get tied up they should mow through massed infantry.

Yeah the Aliatoc Eldar could be an issue and why I keep switching between LR:Ex and LR:Conq in my lists.

I again haven't played tau much since they got their codex but haven't had terribly much issue with them. What should I be on the lookout for against their Top Tier lists?

   
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Khadorstompy wrote:
Hmm I have been testing Tread-head Mono guard fielding 10+ Lemans Russes. I had been using Vostroyan Conquerors but with the Price Drop on Executioners I now find them the superior option as Cadian.

Honestly it might just be that I play mostly only the people at my club and on TTS but I have had great success with the Armor heavy list but hear so many seem to think the LR isn't worth it. So I'm curious as to what I'm not running into that seems to to be busting the tanks chops so much.



Can you post the exact makeup of your list? Is it literally just tanks? It's an interesting idea for sure, but I'm not sure how it would look.

edit -

Just spitballing, you could do....

Pask, Executioner + Lascannon
3x Tank Commanders, Executioner + Lascannon
2x Leman Russ Punishers
4x Leman Russ Battle Cannons
2x Company Commanders
70x Infantry

Comes in at 1991 points. It's certainly an interesting army, mathhammering it out the 4 commanders + 4 regular russes (assuming old grudges on the commanders) would be able to put out 28 wounds on a 3++ Castellan, so on average you could one shot one if you fire everything at it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/08 17:33:58


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





My list currently has 88 points to spare I think.

Battalion (Vostryon)
2 TC Punishers w/ HB + Plasma Sponsons
1 Company Commander (Warlord, Old Grudge)
3 Infantry Squads

SpearHead (Cadian)
Pask Executioner w/ HB + Plasma Sponsons
TC Executioner w/ HB + Plasma Sponsons
6 Leman Russ Executions w/ HB + Plasma Sponsons

   
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I'd caution against using that many executioners in a tournament list... Eldar Flyers with -2 to hit (-3 with a stratagem) make it so you cannot possibly overcharge them. Regular ol' battle cannons can fire at them without having to worry about exploding on 2's and 3's.

Also the Relic Battle Cannon with a flat 3 damage is a fantastic weapon, and well worth paying 1 CP for (gotta take the Vigilus detachment)
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Horst wrote:
I'd caution against using that many executioners in a tournament list... Eldar Flyers with -2 to hit (-3 with a stratagem) make it so you cannot possibly overcharge them. Regular ol' battle cannons can fire at them without having to worry about exploding on 2's and 3's.

Also the Relic Battle Cannon with a flat 3 damage is a fantastic weapon, and well worth paying 1 CP for (gotta take the Vigilus detachment)


Yeah That is something to worry about. And why I flip between Executioners and Conquerors. I haven't run into much eldar who I know make the best use of that stuff so I need some practice against it. Maybe do a mix and swap 2 LR:Ex w/ Plasma for 2 LR:C w/ Heavy Flamers?
   
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CO

I'd say always take at least 1 or 2 Conquerors if you have them simply to grab OBJs or to apply pressure. Rerolling all dice within 24" is pretty legitimate.

5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech 
   
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I quite like vostroyan conquerors for the 30" rerolls. Underrated option in my opinion

Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights  
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





Another game another turn 2 concession. Though this game was a bit odd. Played a guy who set up far more terrain then I was used to. I am told this was an ITC map and it had zero turn 1 lanes of fire for my tanks. He was however pretty focused on horde killing with 3 Ravenwing Talon Fighters. 3 Grey Knight strike Squads in reserve with Draigo and Voldus. A loyal 32 with a Basalisk.

He got the Winning Roll and went first. The Talons zoomed into my Deployment and toasted 2 squads of Infantry and Pounded My hammer relic commander with the Basalisk but only took him down halfway. (He had terrible luck with the Rift cannons that did nothing to my TC) Voldus (Who started on the field gated and got the charge off on another TC and killed it. (Used the strat that let him fight twice.)

My shooting phase turn 1 was pretty sub-par Killed 1 Talon and put one to 1 hp and the other to 4 hp. Pask had to Fall back as Voldus Consolidated into him. Killed 1 infantry squad and did minor damage to the 2 others. Kill voldus with the Relic TC.

Turn 2 he droped in the Strike squads and Driago. All missed their charges and the only thing he killed with the wounded TC with the Relic. He conceded middle of my shooting turn 2 after he lost Driago and a Strike squad with most of my tanks left to shoot.

Edit: I did learn alot about ITC lines of fire this game which was much more restrictive then I had been expecting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 05:36:49


 
   
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So I'm curious what role does the commissar fill in lists anymore? I see them pop up in some very competitive lists but I have no idea why. What am I missing?
   
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Iowa

 necron99 wrote:
So I'm curious what role does the commissar fill in lists anymore? I see them pop up in some very competitive lists but I have no idea why. What am I missing?

They hold power weapons, can be cheap HQs, Summary Execution is optional now with them right? That’s the only reason I can think of at the moment.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Commisar is cheap and adds a tiny bit of value to a hoard of guard infantry hes certainly not a terrible choice but hes not an auto include either I would probably include him with 120ish guard and definitely wouldnt with 30. Untill you get to that hoard sized level though he has competition from officers/psykers/priests and the first two are goodaccompanting small numbrrs of units

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 14:32:40


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Another ITC game vs a Castellean Guard list with 3 Basillisks 2 Helrevins and 3 Vultures.

This one was a loss as I could not buy a save roll on any of my guys. Didn't take the Hammer this time and that was a mistake as since we were playing long field and he got first turn I couldn't threaten his basillisks much. Also due to my not being able to make any save despite the Helvriens only having a -1 AP and needing 5s to wounds (He had some hot dice) was mulching my tanks. Turn one lost 2 Conquers and Pask. My turn 1 Mulched in Castellean and took a Vulture to 1 hp. His turn 2 kill 2 more tanks (2 Executioners) but my super gakky rolls on turn 2 had me kill NOTHING just doing some minor damage to a basilisk and 1 Vulture.

Overall I was pleased with my ability to turn 1 destroy a castelean even with losing 3 tanks but Have come to realise the Executioners just can't deal with things very well. I feel they have under-preformed the games I have tried them in and that the Conquerors are a superior choice.

Might try working in a Basilisk.

Also as everyone is spraying my infantry squads to death turn one might swap them out for MT:Sions.


Another test:

This time I greatly reduced my Number of Tanks to just 2 Punisher TC and 2 Conquerors. Another Turn 1 Knight kill (Just a warden this time). Tried 2 Basilisks but despite packing them in a corner behind a ruin still lost 1 turn 1. However I Took a Custodes Spearhead with a Dawneagle Jetbike and 3 Grav-tanks. Damn those things did work. Blowout win this game loved the Grav-tanks. Wasn't impressed by the Basilisk but might give it another shot.

3rd game which royally pissed me off

Dude tried to cheat and teleport Magnus with Dark matter Crystal. Also manged to cast magnus -1 to hit and +1 save when I wasn't looking. Literally unloaded my entire army into Magnus. Was still alive with 1 w at end of round (Of course I didn't go first again like 6th game in row.) Was absolutely absurd.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/11 03:10:08


 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut





Khadorstompy wrote:
Another ITC game vs a Castellean Guard list with 3 Basillisks 2 Helrevins and 3 Vultures.

Overall I was pleased with my ability to turn 1 destroy a castelean even with losing 3 tanks but Have come to realise the Executioners just can't deal with things very well. I feel they have under-preformed the games I have tried them in and that the Conquerors are a superior choice.

Might try working in a Basilisk.

Also as everyone is spraying my infantry squads to death turn one might swap them out for MT:Sions.



Executioners will be good against opponents without invulns but invulns are so prevalent now that -2 is quite optimal. I find the executioners biggest weakness being 36" range which means opponents can counter deploy against them. I would probably consider going max half and half with conquerors. Executioners also only come out better when you overcharge and -1 is also prevalent that once again a conqueror will be better.

Against a magnus the st 8 and -2 is sufficient and it has better range to get the shot off without having to move more than 5"

A single basilisk isnt going to get through much work. They do well in bigger groups but I am surprised you cant even hide 1 behind cover.

Also you need the screen so wouldnt trade for scions. However I would definitely recommend adding 1 or 2 naked scion squads to help cap far objectives. Will always give you better chance of gaining points, but won kill (you have tanks for that!).
   
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Smirrors wrote:
Khadorstompy wrote:
Another ITC game vs a Castellean Guard list with 3 Basillisks 2 Helrevins and 3 Vultures.

Overall I was pleased with my ability to turn 1 destroy a castelean even with losing 3 tanks but Have come to realise the Executioners just can't deal with things very well. I feel they have under-preformed the games I have tried them in and that the Conquerors are a superior choice.

Might try working in a Basilisk.

Also as everyone is spraying my infantry squads to death turn one might swap them out for MT:Sions.



Executioners will be good against opponents without invulns but invulns are so prevalent now that -2 is quite optimal. I find the executioners biggest weakness being 36" range which means opponents can counter deploy against them. I would probably consider going max half and half with conquerors. Executioners also only come out better when you overcharge and -1 is also prevalent that once again a conqueror will be better.

Against a magnus the st 8 and -2 is sufficient and it has better range to get the shot off without having to move more than 5"

A single basilisk isnt going to get through much work. They do well in bigger groups but I am surprised you cant even hide 1 behind cover.

Also you need the screen so wouldnt trade for scions. However I would definitely recommend adding 1 or 2 naked scion squads to help cap far objectives. Will always give you better chance of gaining points, but won kill (you have tanks for that!).


With the Executioners... their real value IMO is the flat 2 damage over the random nature of D3 on the Battle Cannon. Nothing is worse than shooting at a squad of 2 wound models, and for damage rolling a 1, then rolling a 6, and knowing you just wasted 2 damage that should have killed something else.
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut





Yes 2 damage is nice. Certainly against Primaris, Terminators and the like the D2 and -3 is sweet. I take plasma sponsons for that job for the most part.

Personally I like my tanks to be able to take out their main threats so having a mix of ranged fire power is important. Tank commanders with regular battle cannons (allows them to pop out from rear LOS cover) and regulars as conquerors (likely to be front line tanks so having a chance to use their 24" range reroll).
   
 
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