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Gnollu wrote:
While we are talking about Russes.
Do You use Tech Priests? In order to grinding advance one will not move his Russes more than 6' anyway so techpriests can easily catch up. Them being characters provides also survivability. They cost 30 pts now for d3 wounds per turn healed.

Usually I put tech priests next to artillery but was thinking about more tank mechanic approach

My current list is an Guard / Knights Hybrid, with a Guard Brigade. I do take a techpriest, and he stays with the Tank Commanders. I've got 2 Tank Commanders and 2 Knights Gallant, and usually outflank one of the Knights. In most games I've played, the Castellan will try to gun down my Gallant on the table first, but he has a 3++ save vs ranged fire, so I don't usually take that much damage. I have played one or two rough games where they go for my Tank Commanders first with the Castellan, but that usually allows my Gallants a turn to get in close, and then they rip the donkey-cave out of a Castellan through it's mouth.

I've been playing in a 1k patrol only tournie at my FLGS and have found Pask and a Conqueror to be really brutal. At 1K we're playing on 4x4 tables so it's pretty easy to get into that 24" sweet spot which you want to do with pasks gattling cannon and the counquerors battle cannon. Yeah it's situational based on what type of game you're playing. At 2k I'm running no russes :( Just the usual Castellan, lots of bodies to gum up the works, some bassies, astropaths, primaris psykers, company commanders, platoon commanders and custodes shield captains. I really do love my little 1K list though. Took two games at the last tournie to get my mojo going but once I got that happening I tabled my opponents in the next two games. Definitely learned a lot about GSC snipers and Thousand Son psyker sniping...need to hide my characters better.

Hey guys,

Is it possible to build a competitive list for tournaments with those models ?

1 Command Squad

4 Cadian Snipers

4 Ratlings

2 Commissars

3 Spykers

2 Leman russ

1 hydra

1 Valkyrie

3 Weapon squad Laze Canon

2 Chimera

1 Sentinel

5 Metal gun Gi

7 Flamer Gi

5 Plasma gun Gi

1 Mortier Gi

11 sergeant squad, pistol ,sword.

6 radio Cadian.

62 Cadian, Lasgun.

Thanks a lot!

I think it depends on the points and tournament format. If you're talking 2K - no I don't think so...go buy a Castellan. I've been playing in a monthly 1k patrol only tournament format with decent results. You'd need to go out and buy a pair of bassies and a astropath to do something similar (not exact - I had pask with the gattling cannon and a conqueror russ but you can always proxy stuff). I tend to start out small with my armies and just build up over time. I started guard, necrons and tau back in 5th so I have a ton of them. I just started doing chaos towards the end of 6th/7th and with a 1/2 a shadowspear box under my wing I can probably field a decent 2k CSM list.

Hi. I am considdering some brood brothers for a complete tyranid, GSC and broodbrothers soup. I like the look of the tanks as the other two factions do not really have them. Inspiered by the missioms on SC2 where terrans and zerg co-operate. (I suppose GSC are coruptet terans but with less tentacles.)

How does the math hammer and tactical advantages checknout on:

Tank commander.
Basilisk
Hydra
Wyvern
Manticore
Hellhound
Heavy weapon teams, mortar or lascannon.
Codex flyer.
Hellhound

Tallarn models can advance and still shoot any weapon but is it at a penalty? For example do infantry squads that advance lasguns hit on a 5+?

Hello people of the Imperial Guard!

What would be the best loudout for plasma scions?

I want to ally them with my Deathwatch and a Knight (Crusader/Gallant).
Is it best to go for the „stormtroopers“ regiment or just play them in regular cadia/catachan battalions (together with the loyal 32). How about the size of the squad? MSU with 2x plasma? Big squads with 4x plasma? Only troop squads with plasma or should I go for the command squad with only 4x plasma?

Thanks in advance!

 CKO wrote:
Tallarn models can advance and still shoot any weapon but is it at a penalty? For example do infantry squads that advance lasguns hit on a 5+?

Nope. Assault weapons in Tallarn does not have penalty neither

Speaking of scions, forgive me but I didn't know where else to ask this question, but in terms of extra plasma guns, where would you guys recommend me buying bits from? I need about 6-8 more.

Robcio wrote:
Speaking of scions, forgive me but I didn't know where else to ask this question, but in terms of extra plasma guns, where would you guys recommend me buying bits from? I need about 6-8 more.

Bits are hard as heck to come by for that. You can buy plasma guns on a sprue from GW but then you have to figure out how to get the little guys to hold them. Another option is to go buy a smooth-on kit and make/pour your own molds of the gun arm and the pointy fingered arm. Back when plasma guns were only 7pts for guard I know someone who built out 4 scion command squads with plasma guns in each squad using this approach. I think the smooth-on kit was like $80 and he still had a ton left over to make additional small molds.

 necron99 wrote:

Robcio wrote:
Speaking of scions, forgive me but I didn't know where else to ask this question, but in terms of extra plasma guns, where would you guys recommend me buying bits from? I need about 6-8 more.

Bits are hard as heck to come by for that. You can buy plasma guns on a sprue from GW but then you have to figure out how to get the little guys to hold them. Another option is to go buy a smooth-on kit and make/pour your own molds of the gun arm and the pointy fingered arm. Back when plasma guns were only 7pts for guard I know someone who built out 4 scion command squads with plasma guns in each squad using this approach. I think the smooth-on kit was like $80 and he still had a ton left over to make additional small molds.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Plasma-Guns or search Ebay for similar Marine plasmas (should be some like this in the Sternguard and Tac squad boxes, but they tend to run 2.00-3.00 per gun before shipping, worth it to check though because sometimes someone is offloading them on the cheap).

Cut away the Space Marine hand from the plasma gun and cut away the flamer/grenade launcher from the Scion arms. Attach plasma gun to Scion arm and you now have three poses for your plasma gunners. Looks great, super easy, and doesn't break the wallet.

Robcio wrote:
Speaking of scions, forgive me but I didn't know where else to ask this question, but in terms of extra plasma guns, where would you guys recommend me buying bits from? I need about 6-8 more.

Depends how you're modeling your Scions. I'm using Kasrkin models for them, so I can just buy Cadian Hostile Environment Plasma Gunner torsos from Forgeworld, and they work great for counts-as Scion Plasma Gunners.

Alright thanks guys, I guess I'll just scour eBay and if I don't find anything I'll have to buy the gw marine ones

 Chris521 wrote:
I had no problem paying the original price for tank commanders so I would take a system where Russes and commanders actually compliment each other (like they should have in the first place) in a heartbeat. Instead we have the current system where people just pay a little extra for the one that shoots better and forget about the other one.

A bodyguard rule alone would likely make up for the price the difference. Tank commanders and especially Pask are usually among the highest priority targets in a guard army. Letting some cheaper tanks (who would also have access to orders) share the load would be very strong.

Depending on the tank set ups in question you can run multiple tank commanders with the regular tanks getting benefit of their orders usually. It does also factor in the doctrine.

Like if you run cadian and can set up good lines of fire, just keep the commanders stationary for the native re roll ones and the re roll ones for the standard Russ with them. Have the commanders using a Russ variant that doesn't need to worry of random shots, like say a punisher, could run an exterminator but I know that isn't the classic choice or even a vanquisher which I know is bleh but let's just assume you want to live dangerously. ( I usually always bring the punishers )

Then use the tank orders on the stock Russ with battle cannon for pound them to dust ( the cadian specific tank orders to make them like cadian/catachan cross breeds )

It's not going to blow anyones socks off but for your standard casual/competitive game it usually does good work for me.

Have your infantry screen out and grab objectives under the watchful eyes of the big guns with arty back up. It works well enough and I think goes with what you're saying with using the tank commanders more as they you feel they should be used. Though I never had an issue with tanks commanders ordering them selves as I always saw it as the commander ordering his crew to fire better or personally directing their attentions as opposed to just being veterans. Though tank commanders are about the best new thing in the guard book that started in 6th ed/ late 5th ed.

 Niiai wrote:
Hi. I am considdering some brood brothers for a complete tyranid, GSC and broodbrothers soup. I like the look of the tanks as the other two factions do not really have them. Inspiered by the missioms on SC2 where terrans and zerg co-operate. (I suppose GSC are coruptet terans but with less tentacles.)

How does the math hammer and tactical advantages checknout on:

Tank commander.
Basilisk
Hydra
Wyvern
Manticore
Hellhound
Heavy weapon teams, mortar or lascannon.
Codex flyer.
Hellhound

Anyone?

The problem is you're losing Regimental Doctrines (especially Catachan and Cadian) that most of those units rely on to be useful.

I don't know enough about GSC to say definitively (and the information I look up online is typically a conflicting mix of how they operated between codex, index and 7th so I'm not going to try) but...

Not having a regimental doctrine does hurt their overall effectiveness but you'll feel it more in the vehicles that are get the most bang out of it - GSC Leman Russes in particular will feel a lot worse than their Imperial counterparts but stuff like the mortar or artillery pieces can be as good as those with a Regimental Doctrine that doesn't really fit their function. The latter you can make up the difference with the benefits of being able to ally in tyranids, the former will have trouble competing regardless.

That said - can Brood Brother's be set up using the GSC ambush mechanic? That would open up said vehicles to a Tallarn style niche which hellhounds and properly kitted russes could make use of.

 Niiai wrote:
Hi. I am considdering some brood brothers for a complete tyranid, GSC and broodbrothers soup. I like the look of the tanks as the other two factions do not really have them. Inspiered by the missioms on SC2 where terrans and zerg co-operate. (I suppose GSC are coruptet terans but with less tentacles.)

How does the math hammer and tactical advantages checknout on:

Tank commander.
Basilisk
Hydra
Wyvern
Manticore
Hellhound
Heavy weapon teams, mortar or lascannon.
Codex flyer.
Hellhound

Out of your list for a simple answer (in my opinion as a guard and GSC player)

Tank commander - yes, works OK without doctrines. You should probably take three if any though.
Basilisk/manticore (they essentially do the same thing) - maybe. A bit meh without doctrines. Does help out against units far in your opponents backfield that cult-ambushing units can't touch
Hydra - not awful but a bit too situational for most. Again you'd need several if any at all, or against a flyer army one or two hydras will just get shot dead first
Wyvern - Not good, as GSC are good at killing infantry, and you lose access to the vigilus formation by going GSC. I'd not bother
Hellhound - I've never been a huge fan of these in general. Feel they're a bit meh, and worse without the catachan doctrine
HWTs - mortars definite yes. They're still some of the most efficient firepower in the game and they're cheaper than the mortars in the GSC codex. Lascannons, no. Too fragile for expensive guns and only hit on 4s at best anyway.
Flyer - Pretty weak in or out of guard. Not sure you can even take it if as it's aeronautica imperialis I think?

I personally only run mortars in a guard/cult list out of your selection. I think tank commanders could work pretty well too though. Having a punchy assault threat with the GSC might give them a bit more breathing space to do their thing.

That's funny, I find the hellhound to be one of the best units in the guard book and one of the only things worth taking for GSC besides tank commanders. With track guards they basically don't degrade with an amazing weapon and when they explode they can win games.

That is interesting.

Somebody ran the numbers on russes vs tyranid units, and I do belive the tyranids came out better damage per points. Of course the russ is T8 and 3+. I do not remember the math and it was before chapter aproved 2018, so the math might change.

I find it a bitt expsensive to buy a new codex if all I use is a russ that competes vs tyranid monsters, and mortars that are 3 or 6 points cheaper then the GSC mortars.

The Hellhound sounds interesting though, although it apears the jury is out on this. I would imagine GSC could be good to suplement a tyranid monster list. The bulldoser goliath is very good in mellee. Although the mathhammer puts it close to a melee distraction carnifex.

Carbifexes, hive tyrants, buldoser goliath and leman russes and hellhounds. Sounds cool. Mortars sounds like good screening units. GSC can use some models that can charge from reserves. I need to think on this.

 Red Corsair wrote:
That's funny, I find the hellhound to be one of the best units in the guard book and one of the only things worth taking for GSC besides tank commanders. With track guards they basically don't degrade with an amazing weapon and when they explode they can win games.

I have seen a lot of people take them. Maybe I'm just using them wrong. I really liked the FW artemia when it was dirt cheap (mainly the explodes for D6 MW part!). Just feel like regular hellhounds are a bit too pricey to suicide away and won't make their points back from shooting very quickly (at least compared to other options)

Has anyone had any success with aerial dropping tempestus scions?

I haven't played 40k in sometime but I'm looking to get back into it. I used to field a 5th/6th Edition Mechanised Guard Army so I have been looking into what it would take to update it to 8th. From what I have gathered so far:

- Scoring objectives rather than tabling your opponent appears to be key.
- If I want to play a mechanised list that can remain mobile and shoot it seems I'm stuck with Tallarn or Catachan.
- The cost drop to Chimeras in the recent FAQ seems to make them ok. They are atleast very tough for objective camping combined with 40pts guard.
- CP is critical.
- Leman Russ tank commanders, Basilisks & Hellhound variants all seem strong.

So gathering all that together I currently intend to field


IG - 2,000pts.

Catachan

Full Brigade

HQ - 439

Tank Commander - 182
Battlecannon
Lascannon Hull

Tank Commander - 182
Battlecannon
Lascannon Hull

Iron Hand Stracken - 75

Troops - 804

Infantry Squad 10man - 46
Flamer
Chimera - Transport - 88
Heavy Flamer Turret
Heavy Flamer Hull

Infantry Squad 10man - 46
Flamer
Chimera - Transport - 88
Heavy Flamer Turret
Heavy Flamer Hull

Infantry Squad 10man - 46
Flamer
Chimera - Transport - 88
Heavy Flamer Turret
Heavy Flamer Hull

Infantry Squad 10man - 46
Flamer
Chimera - Transport - 88
Heavy Flamer Turret
Heavy Flamer Hull

Infantry Squad 10man - 46
Flamer
Chimera - Transport - 88
Heavy Flamer Turret
Heavy Flamer Hull

Infantry Squad 10man - 46
Flamer
Chimera - Transport - 88
Heavy Flamer Turret
Heavy Flamer Hull

Elites - 90

Harker - 50

Tech Priest Enginseer - 30

Tech Priest Enginseer - 30

Fast Attack - 323[b]

Hellhound - 107
Inferno Cannon
Heavy Flamer

Devil Dog - 108
Melta Cannon
Multi Melta

Devil Dog - 108
Melta Cannon
Multi Melta

Heavy Support - 324

Basilisk - 108
Heavy Bolter

Basilisk - 108
Heavy Bolter

Basilisk - 108
Heavy Bolter


1) List fields 13 Heavy Flamers, 3 Earth Shaker Cannons, 2 Battle Cannons, 2 Melta Cannons, 1 Inferno Cannon on Vehicles so I should get use out of the Catachan Regiment.

2) The Troops in Chimeras are mainly to throw there bodies at objectives. If the enemy wants to shoot them to stop them getting into flamer range/grabbing objectives they are welcome to with 60 T7 3+ saves and then 60 guardsmens bodies to get through.

3) My Leman Russ Tank Commander models are Mars Alpha pattern with Lascannon hulls. I like the models and think lascannon cost is ok on Tank Commander.

4) For the elites Harker is there to boost the Artillery/Leman Russ/Devil dogs. Enginseers to pay the formation tax and they should have plenty of targets to heal.

5) I am not sure of the Hellhound/Devil dog split or how to configure the hulls. I suspect I meant to go 3x Devildog c/w Hull Heavy Flamer in this list but plan to try them all out.

6) Iron Hand Stracken seems a reasonable way of rounding out the HQ and providing some orders + counter assault potential. I would of liked Ogyrns but points don't stretch that far.

7) I've probably cocked up somewhere since this is the first list I have made in 8th.

Thoughts welcome.

Just one point - if you can swap the devil dogs out for anything you should. Their firepower is pretty weak, and without the tallarn trait you'll be having minuses to hot on the move. they're also liable to be made useless by the enemy tagging them in CC.

I'd swap them out for either hellhounds, sentinels (with AC, PC or heavy flamer) or rough riders.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Just one point - if you can swap the devil dogs out for anything you should. Their firepower is pretty weak, and without the tallarn trait you'll be having minuses to hot on the move. they're also liable to be made useless by the enemy tagging them in CC.

I'd swap them out for either hellhounds, sentinels (with AC, PC or heavy flamer) or rough riders.

Ok noted. I'll play a couple of games with hellhound/devildog mix with the intention of swapping them all to hellhounds.

 CKO wrote:
Has anyone had any success with aerial dropping tempestus scions?

Sort of.
I run Space Wolves and a detachment of Scions sort of kind of becomes Pseudo Scouts since the Wolves don't get troop Scouts. They drop in turn three, finish off things that have already been mauled and dig in to hold objectives. Optimally spreading my opponent's rescources in an attempt to get their stuff back but more often being snarled at then ignored unless my opponent has to do clean-up duty for a complete board-wiping.

Has anyone ran a Vulture w/ Punisher with Tallarn and a Officer of the Fleet. YOu are hitting on 3's and get to keep your -1 hard to hit, can move and shoot without penalty bc of tallarn, If positioned right can get the officer of fleet reroll bonus.

Its 2 more wounds than a leman, and about 30 points cheaper ( i feel the -1 to hit offsets the T7 vs T8). Plus you could nightshroud it for a -2 to hit if needed.

Given the prevalence of hordes as a counter to the knight meta this seems like a good option.

Pretty sure Vultures dont get doctrine benefits. They're Aeronautica Imperialis, not <REGIMENT>.

Sterling191 wrote:
Pretty sure Vultures dont get doctrine benefits. They're Aeronautica Imperialis, not <REGIMENT>.

Damn your right. Well, it can still hit on 3's, but you would lose the -1 to hit since you would need to go into hover mode.

Still though. might be good for horde clearing.

I like vultures for the utility of being able to charge a key firebase unit if the opportunity arises. Also an amazing target for the 'vengeance for cadia' strat. A hovering vulture on average will put 29 wounds on a plaguebearer squad even with the -1 to hit. (If the opponent then charges said hovering vulture then combine VFC with defensive gunners for overwatch hilarity)