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Gotta agree with MrMoustaffa. I was speaking with someone in my gaming group about this the other day (I swear the guy is good enough to win tournaments); Guard aren't (or are no longer) a killy army, but they are perfect for objective based games. Blobs of infantry that are difficult to eliminate entirely, tanks and Basilisks to kill anything that can.

 Dynas wrote:
Brandon Grant did an interview recently (art of war I believe). where he was stating that catachan even with leadership and S4 are still not enough to crack marines. They just dont care.

Im really beginning to lean more toward Tallarn for Infantry and Tank commanders.

Infantry can move and advance and still shoot with regiment. Make sure to keep out of LoS.

Scions seem like an option but still die just as fast. not sure what would be the best option honestly.

Granted I haven't used Scions since the point change, but honestly I only see them as useful if part of your plan is to take and hold an objective on the opponents side of the table, especially since they die as quickly as Guardsmen (especially against Primaris)

 Salted Diamond wrote:
The order effects rapid fire weapons so plasma gets to join in as well, if you also happen to have "Laurels of Command" you can then trigger FRFSRF at the character. That is how I usually roll and I've now had opponents pull charcters out of aura range because they know I could do it. I should add they my local meta is only a couple of people even own a knight and there are zero Custodes players, not even as allies.

Unless it's been FAQ'ed, I'm pretty sure FRFSRF only affects lasguns and hotshot lasguns. But I won't have any relics or WL traits on my guard, except maybe the CP regen one.

 gbghg wrote:
Also guardsmen have the durability of wet paper, you're more likely to lose the entire squad outright to wounds rather than morale. About the only thing you can do for them is keep them in cover (Except a bunch of stuff now ignores cover) and use the take cover strat if you really want them to live.

Expect your guardsmen to die a lot, and bring a sufficient quantity to ensure you still have some left by turn 5. Trying to make them more durable is a fools errand, they don't have the stats or rules to pull that off.

I am just running a loyal 32 allied detachment, of sorts, I only have ~200 points of space after the psyker. But I always thought guard was one of the more durable factions, point for point. If you're right, then should I just run mordia for the marginal combat gains? I mean, out of all the possible moral states you could get, valhalla will only beat mordia in 6 of them.

 Eipi10 wrote:

 Salted Diamond wrote:
The order effects rapid fire weapons so plasma gets to join in as well, if you also happen to have "Laurels of Command" you can then trigger FRFSRF at the character. That is how I usually roll and I've now had opponents pull charcters out of aura range because they know I could do it. I should add they my local meta is only a couple of people even own a knight and there are zero Custodes players, not even as allies.

Unless it's been FAQ'ed, I'm pretty sure FRFSRF only affects lasguns and hotshot lasguns. But I won't have any relics or WL traits on my guard, except maybe the CP regen one..

It does only effect lasguns, but with Laurals it means that you *can combine FRFSRF with the Mordian "Form a Firing Squad" order to target charaters. While plasma does not benefit from FRFSRF, it does get effected by "Form A Firing Squad" as it is a rapid fire weapon.

*on a +4

Laurels of Command combined with Master of Command allows to you issue orders to three units and on 4+ to stack orders on such units.
I play my infantry as Vostroya and having 30" weapons (especially plasmas), that reroll 1s to hit and 1s to wound, along with 32 lasgun shots that do the same is nothing to scoff at, and this is only a single squad. You can have 3 (4 with a stratagem) to do the exact same thing.
You can combine regimental orders this way, or fall back from close combat and still return fire with FRFSRF, advance and fire FRFSRF and so on... It can be quite nasty of you roll those 4+.

Take Veterans, give them 3 plasmas, throw in a search light or the new BSF psyker, roll good on those 4+s and you have guardsmen hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s, and wounding on 2s (Overloaded plasma), rerolling 1s. Very powerful in low-point games.

E// FRFSRF affects only Lasguns / HotShot Lasguns.

 Hawky wrote:
Laurels of Command combined with Master of Command allows to you issue orders to three units and on 4+ to stack orders on such units.
I play my infantry as Vostroya and having 30" weapons (especially plasmas), that reroll 1s to hit and 1s to wound, along with 32 lasgun shots that do the same is nothing to scoff at, and this is only a single squad. You can have 3 (4 with a stratagem) to do the exact same thing.
You can combine regimental orders this way, or fall back from close combat and still return fire with FRFSRF, advance and fire FRFSRF and so on... It can be quite nasty of you roll those 4+.

Take Veterans, give them 3 plasmas, throw in a search light or the new BSF psyker, roll good on those 4+s and you have guardsmen hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s, and wounding on 2s (Overloaded plasma), rerolling 1s. Very powerful in low-point games.

E// FRFSRF affects only Lasguns / HotShot Lasguns.

How are you getting RR 1's to hit/wound and FRFSRF on a single unit? Only way I know is to have a character like Yarrick providing reroll 1 to hit and then ordering FRFSRF/bring it down if you're lucky.

While I love the idea of Laurels, I find it very risky to rely on and often not worth the CP to try and ensure it goes off. That 50/50 chance could not go off a single time in a turn and there's no way of knowing if you have it until you're committed. Which means you normally are doing Form Firing Line or FRFSRF first and then crossing your fingers your plan works. Not a great way to run a guard army unfortunately.

That said, Laurels combined with the Cadian WLT can be potentially powerful on something like a tank commander. Start with two orders, on a 4+ give the same order to an additional unit for free, and each of those orders can proc an additional order on the same unit. You're looking at up to 4 tanks getting 2 orders a piece if lucky, most likely 3 tanks ordered (using the extra order strat) with 1-2 getting a second. This could be reroll shots/pop smoke which is very powerful, or do reroll hit of 1 and shots, etc. Downside of course is a tank commander warlord that quite obviously needs to die asap, but a fun trick for tank armies, and possibly a way to distract from Pask and another tank commander with hammer of sunderance. Unfortunately you can't do a shooting order and then do full throttle thanks to how the order phase works, that would be insanely powerful.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

How are you getting RR 1's to hit/wound and FRFSRF on a single unit? Only way I know is to have a character like Yarrick providing reroll 1 to hit and then ordering FRFSRF/bring it down if you're lucky.

I don't think he meant he's doing all 3 orders at once, although Cadian's can do some order shenanigans like that with the Cadian WL trait (effect an addition Cadian unti on a +4) trait and Laurals. Order unit 1, trigger WL to effect unti 2, trigger Laurals for unit 1, trigger WL again to effect unit. 2. This is all off 1 order. Now you can actually order unit 2 and reverse it, hence you have essentally gotten 4 orders off for a single unit.


I also usually would trigger FRFSRF first and try for Form Firing Squad if possible, so if it triggers, great, if not, I still get shots off

with Laurels of Command relic, you can stack multiple orders on one unit, you just need to roll 4+ for each new order, and you can keep stacking as long as you pass the roll. So you order FRFSRF, then roll, Then you order them reroll 1s to hit, then roll again, then order them to reroll 1s to wound... You get the idea.

So if you are lucky, you can have a single <Infantry> unit to shoot twice as much and reroll both 1s to hit and wound. You just need to pass 2 4+ rolls to achieve that.

And you can't have Laurels of Command on a Tank Commander IIRC. TC can't order Infantry and it has only 3 orders to choose from anyway.

 Hawky wrote:
with Laurels of Command relic, you can stack multiple orders on one unit, you just need to roll 4+ for each new order, and you can keep stacking as long as you pass the roll. So you order FRFSRF, then roll, Then you order them reroll 1s to hit, then roll again, then order them to reroll 1s to wound... You get the idea.

So if you are lucky, you can have a single <Infantry> unit to shoot twice as much and reroll both 1s to hit and wound. You just need to pass 2 4+ rolls to achieve that.

And you can't have Laurels of Command on a Tank Commander IIRC.

Thats not how that works. At most you're getting two on a unit. There is an explicit FAQ for this occurrence.

I would have to ask you for a citation. I just looked on a GW site, IG codex eratta and it has three entries on the Laurels of Command. I might have been getting wrong the no. 1, but shooting first with frfsrf, then shooting again normally but rerolling 1s etc.. seems odd to me. Or I don't get the wording. Enlighten me, please.

1) Q: Can I use The Laurels of Command to issue the same order
twice to the same unit?
A: No, the second order issued must be a different order.

2) Q: If I issue an order to a unit with an Officer who has the
Laurels of Command, and I roll a 4+ to issue another order
to the same unit, do I resolve the first order before issuing
the second?
A: Yes.

3) How do The Laurels of Command and Superior Tactical
Training interact? (not posting it whole, as its a wall of text)

E// Grammar

Yeah read the orders in your codex and you'll see that most of the shooting orders just say "when you shoot, apply x from order" as opposed to Move Move Move and Fix Bayonets which require you to resolve their effects immediately.

Forgot laurels doesn't work on tank commanders, shame, that would've actually been useful for that relic.

How do you guys feel about 5-man squads with grenade launchers for beefier objective grabbers/reinforcements?

 Apple Peel wrote:
How do you guys feel about 5-man squads with grenade launchers for beefier objective grabbers/reinforcements?

For Stormtroopers? I think I'd rather just take them barebones with a plasma pistol. Makes sarge useful and is a point cheaper.

 Apple Peel wrote:
How do you guys feel about 5-man squads with grenade launchers for beefier objective grabbers/reinforcements?

I assume you're talking Scions as Infantry squads can only be taken in 10 man squads.

A 5 man squad is not going to be nearly as survivable as a 10 man Guard squad under the same circumstances. A 10 man Scion squad will be more survivable, relatively speaking (unless you're up against Imperial Fists).

I'm thinking of trying a Scion battalion with three 10 man squads to take a far away objective (or reinforce one I have). This would be on top of three Catachan Battalions (9 Infantry squads), one with a Basalisk and 1cp spent to make it an Emperor's Wrath detachment, and a Russ Spearhead with Emperor's Fist and a second Tank Commander with a Demolisher Cannon.

Arcanis161 wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
How do you guys feel about 5-man squads with grenade launchers for beefier objective grabbers/reinforcements?

I assume you're talking Scions as Infantry squads can only be taken in 10 man squads.

A 5 man squad is not going to be nearly as survivable as a 10 man Guard squad under the same circumstances. A 10 man Scion squad will be more survivable, relatively speaking (unless you're up against Imperial Fists).

I'm thinking of trying a Scion battalion with three 10 man squads to take a far away objective (or reinforce one I have). This would be on top of three Catachan Battalions (9 Infantry squads), one with a Basalisk and 1cp spent to make it an Emperor's Wrath detachment, and a Russ Spearhead with Emperor's Fist and a second Tank Commander with a Demolisher Cannon.

I’m building a Militarum Tempestus list, and with Chapter Approved and some changes, I now have 170 points free. I need to fill the space. Minimum Scion squads for late objective grabbing are popular, but I wonder if giving them grenade launchers for just an extra six points would be good on one or two squads.

 Apple Peel wrote:

Arcanis161 wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
How do you guys feel about 5-man squads with grenade launchers for beefier objective grabbers/reinforcements?

I assume you're talking Scions as Infantry squads can only be taken in 10 man squads.

A 5 man squad is not going to be nearly as survivable as a 10 man Guard squad under the same circumstances. A 10 man Scion squad will be more survivable, relatively speaking (unless you're up against Imperial Fists).

I'm thinking of trying a Scion battalion with three 10 man squads to take a far away objective (or reinforce one I have). This would be on top of three Catachan Battalions (9 Infantry squads), one with a Basalisk and 1cp spent to make it an Emperor's Wrath detachment, and a Russ Spearhead with Emperor's Fist and a second Tank Commander with a Demolisher Cannon.

I’m building a Militarum Tempestus list, and with Chapter Approved and some changes, I now have 170 points free. I need to fill the space. Minimum Scion squads for late objective grabbing are popular, but I wonder if giving them grenade launchers for just an extra six points would be good on one or two squads.

Grenade launchers are so bad may as well just bring another guy or opt for plasma pistol. Unless you already have some built or just think they look cool, they're useless on scions. Either opt for plasma pistol or keep em barebones.

Hey guys!

I need your opinion in choosing an army and a playing style for an escalation league. My two armies are custodes and IG, and for the love of god, I can't choose between them. The league is escalation, 500 base, plus 250 every round until 1500 in 5th. Missions are custom, based on the narrative, but generally objective based. Everyone has 11 CP, detachments are not used (1 HQ 2 troop minimum, that's it), rule of 3, fixed warlord, no LoW, armies must be built on the previous one, so the escalation means expansion of previous list. Also, units with FLY will not be able to capture.

Do you have any insights on how should I narrow down my search for a list I'd be successful with? I was thinking of a pure madness list of 100 guardsmen plus commanders for the first battle, then add armor slowly but steadily - this would be a fun way to play. Problem is, I will always have to include these guys in the upcoming matches as well.

Thank you for your help in advance.

KGYM wrote:
Hey guys!

I need your opinion in choosing an army and a playing style for an escalation league. My two armies are custodes and IG, and for the love of god, I can't choose between them. The league is escalation, 500 base, plus 250 every round until 1500 in 5th. Missions are custom, based on the narrative, but generally objective based. Everyone has 11 CP, detachments are not used (1 HQ 2 troop minimum, that's it), rule of 3, fixed warlord, no LoW, armies must be built on the previous one, so the escalation means expansion of previous list. Also, units with FLY will not be able to capture.

Do you have any insights on how should I narrow down my search for a list I'd be successful with? I was thinking of a pure madness list of 100 guardsmen plus commanders for the first battle, then add armor slowly but steadily - this would be a fun way to play. Problem is, I will always have to include these guys in the upcoming matches as well.

Thank you for your help in advance.

Well, the Guardsmen would be useful later on anyways. The question is how much firepower do you want versus bodies to hold objectives. I'd recommend something in the early game, perhaps a Tank Commander, to dedicate to taking out things that can threaten your blob of Guardsmen.

EDIT: I think I should point out: you will lose Guardsmen. You will always lose Guardsmen. But there are still things that can annihilate 4+ Guard Squads a turn, so you need something to take that out.

New Guard player. Made a list but kind of appalled at the lack of anti tank.

How do we deal with imperial knights.

Mine is Catachan

3x tank commander battle cannons
Straken
Company commander
2x psyker

60 inf
10 scions 2x plas
10 scions 2x plas
5 scions

6 bullgryn
Priest
Astropath
Astropath
Sgt harker

2 basilisk

Obviously split into 3 battalions. Tournament is 1750 im working toward.
I know im 5pts over.

Just curious thoughts. Thanks!

Incognito15 wrote:
New Guard player. Made a list but kind of appalled at the lack of anti tank.

How do we deal with imperial knights.

Mine is Catachan

3x tank commander battle cannons
Straken
Company commander
2x psyker

60 inf
10 scions 2x plas
10 scions 2x plas
5 scions

6 bullgryn
Priest
Astropath
Astropath
Sgt harker

2 basilisk

Obviously split into 3 battalions. Tournament is 1750 im working toward.
I know im 5pts over.

Just curious thoughts. Thanks!

Would strongly recommend finding 60pts for 3x sets of plasma cannons sponsons for the tank commanders, particularly as you're lacking anti tank. They're a phenomenal firepower increase for just 60pts, are better with catachan (reroll no. of shots) and are particularly strong as there are so many SM players around these days! And if those astropaths are just there to buff the bullgryns, find another 15pts for a psychic maelstrom astropath. That 15pts investment can make many times its points cost back against most armies, gives you another nuisance character and another psychic denial.

^Yep. Also, I would consider putting demolisher cannons on a couple of them.

Thanks! Didn't realize they got that cheap!

Interesting but seems like a tank commander outperforms 2 basilisks. Can alao drop harker and save 60ish points then.

Now to assemble them all with sponsons.

Can I take 4/5 Tank Commanders if I change up the loadout? As in Punisher Gatling Cannon, Demolisher and Battle Tanks?

Incognito15 wrote:
Thanks! Didn't realize they got that cheap!

Interesting but seems like a tank commander outperforms 2 basilisks. Can alao drop harker and save 60ish points then.

Now to assemble them all with sponsons.

Can I take 4/5 Tank Commanders if I change up the loadout? As in Punisher Gatling Cannon, Demolisher and Battle Tanks?

Main reason you take Basalisks is to fire out of LoS and to use the Vigilus Emperor's Wrath Artillery detachment and all of the goodies (no cover, fire twice, etc). The other reason to bring at least one is that it's the only hard counter we have against Eliminators, which snipe our characters.

My understanding is the Rule of Three is an optional rule for matched play games. That said, I always build my lists around it in order to avoid any issues. The rule is that you can't bring more than three of any datasheet, other than troops, which means you can't bring more than three Tank Commanders, Company Commanders, Astropaths, etc. Loadout does not matter, it's a hard three regardless of how they're equipped.

That said, you can bring 9 of the regular Leman Russ Tanks as those datasheets each allow you to bring a squadron of up to three, so 3x3 =9 tanks.

Three max, except for Troops or Dedicated Transports.

Now, Guard don't have any DTs worth spamming, but it's good to know.

What are peoples thoughts on Taurox Primes?

Incognito15 wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on Taurox Primes?

Ranged or close Gunboat. Transportation restriction makes carrying support characters pretty much non-existent. Transport capacity is bad as a concept this edition, so not very good here. Could use Crush Them to ram into something.

I am using the Lightning Strike Fighter but am not sure which loadouts I can take. In Battlescribe I can choose to use the Long-barreled autocannon and either 4 or 6 Hellstrike missiles. Looking at the Index I only find a datasheet in which I have to take the LBautocannon and can use 4 hellstrike missles (not 6). Where do the other options in Battlescribe come from?

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am using the Lightning Strike Fighter but am not sure which loadouts I can take. In Battlescribe I can choose to use the Long-barreled autocannon and either 4 or 6 Hellstrike missiles. Looking at the Index I only find a datasheet in which I have to take the LBautocannon and can use 4 hellstrike missles (not 6). Where do the other options in Battlescribe come from?

From the errata.

If this model is equipped with four hellstrike missiles, it may replace its long-barrelled autocannon with two additional hellstrike missiles.

The FW books are literally not worth the paper they are printed on.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I am using the Lightning Strike Fighter but am not sure which loadouts I can take. In Battlescribe I can choose to use the Long-barreled autocannon and either 4 or 6 Hellstrike missiles. Looking at the Index I only find a datasheet in which I have to take the LBautocannon and can use 4 hellstrike missles (not 6). Where do the other options in Battlescribe come from?

From the errata.

If this model is equipped with four hellstrike missiles, it may replace its long-barrelled autocannon with two additional hellstrike missiles.

The FW books are literally not worth the paper they are printed on.

Thanks. I Googled the internet empty but could'nt find anything. Didn't think of looking for an errata.

So I recently got a lot on eBay of Guard vehicles that were painted the same scheme as I intend to paint my vehicles. However, the (currently usable) Leman Russ tanks from that lot all have glued in Heavy Bolter sponsons and Lascannons. These are also older models, so I won't be able to just swap turrets between these and my other tanks. My other Russ options are the following:

3 Hulls with no sponsons (swappable weapons)
2 hulls with sponsons (all swappable)
2 Battle Cannon turrets
1 Demolisher Turret
2 Annihilator turrets

My question is, should I run the older Russes as Tank Commanders, even with Heavy Bolter sponsons, and use the regular hulls with the Demolisher Cannon and the Battle Cannons, or should I run them as regular Russes (again with the sponsons) and use the hulls with sponsons that I have to make Demolisher and Battle Cannon Tank Commanders?

Arcanis161 wrote:
So I recently got a lot on eBay of Guard vehicles that were painted the same scheme as I intend to paint my vehicles. However, the (currently usable) Leman Russ tanks from that lot all have glued in Heavy Bolter sponsons and Lascannons. These are also older models, so I won't be able to just swap turrets between these and my other tanks. My other Russ options are the following:

3 Hulls with no sponsons (swappable weapons)
2 hulls with sponsons (all swappable)
2 Battle Cannon turrets
1 Demolisher Turret
2 Annihilator turrets

My question is, should I run the older Russes as Tank Commanders, even with Heavy Bolter sponsons, and use the regular hulls with the Demolisher Cannon and the Battle Cannons, or should I run them as regular Russes (again with the sponsons) and use the hulls with sponsons that I have to make Demolisher and Battle Cannon Tank Commanders?

The turrets are what make or break tank commanders, not sponsons. If I'm stuck with a bunch of random tanks, the turrets that are best for tank commanders get allocated first, and the extra would be regular tanks, even if that meant some tanks got some weird combos.

In your case at least one battlecannon and one demolisher as TC's. The 3rd would be either a Demolisher, punisher, or depending on regiment, maybe executioner or non sunderance battlecannon. Annhilators would be a cool TC platform but sadly they're only for regular Russe's and they apparently didn't get a point drop, really hurts them. I'd still run them for fun and looks, but I'd avoid them for competitive. Demolishers are something like 35pts cheaper and put out way more shots, even if they sacrifice range to do so.

One thing regular Russe's would be good for is demolisher platforms, especially ITC in my opinion. Demolishers draw a lot of fire and only need a couple solid hits to kill most targets. Since most ITC scenarios make tank commanders gigantic points pinatas, I'd give the TC longer range weapons and use demolishers as basic tanks shoved up the board, provided you plan on using more than 3 tanks of course. You save a good chunk of points going to a regular tank and give up less points to boot for those tanks dying than a TC in a similar spot.