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Hot tip: Devil Dogs will be the new thing with no move penalty and things being vehicle/monster heavy. Then once the meta shifts to hordes and objective play then bring back Hellhounds.
Also +1 to Sentinels and Flamers

 Gibblets wrote:
Hot tip: Devil Dogs will be the new thing with no move penalty and things being vehicle/monster heavy. Then once the meta shifts to hordes and objective play then bring back Hellhounds.
Also +1 to Sentinels and Flamers

Didn't Devil Dogs already ignore the penalty, since their main cannon is Assault?

Or am I misremembering?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Gibblets wrote:
Hot tip: Devil Dogs will be the new thing with no move penalty and things being vehicle/monster heavy. Then once the meta shifts to hordes and objective play then bring back Hellhounds.
Also +1 to Sentinels and Flamers

Didn't Devil Dogs already ignore the penalty, since their main cannon is Assault?

Or am I misremembering?

No, you're right. Also the Devil Dog is the anti tank pattern (Melta Cannon). And the other two turret heavy weapons auto-hit anyway. Now they can fire in Melee though makes them surprisingly good anti-hoard melee options though, since most hoards can't realistically punch T7 all that well. The Chem Cannon will be good against tough enemies (2+ wound, -3AP), while the Inferno cannon wounds T3 on a 2+ anyway, so the extra D6 shots is more beneficial. Plus Hellhounds get +2 to explode, so they can take a handful down when they die too.

Did forge world discontinue the centaur light assault carrier? It got new points but not sure if it went to legends as they don’t sell it anymore that I can find

So am I right in reading, from the points, no more leman russ conqueror?

@ Centaur: it looks like it. Would be sad, I liked it a lot.

One other thing I'm currently trying to wrap my head around: with a lot of things going up, the Multilaser Carnodon went down (Edit: 8) points (for 80 total or 85 if you take that 5th ML) since the Twin Multilaser is now costed like two single MLs. Its 10 T7 3+ wounds for 160% of one barebones infantry squad or 1/2 of the cheapest Leman Russ. Sure the damage sucks and the model is not cheap in real money, but... maybe? It can also shoot in melee with all its weapons since non of the options is blast.

But I completely lack experience to make a well funded decision if that has a quality of its own.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
@ Centaur: it looks like it. Would be sad, I liked it a lot.

One other thing I'm currently trying to wrap my head around: with a lot of things going up, the Multilaser Carnodon went down 10 points (for 80 total or 85 if you take that 5th ML) since the Twin Multilaser is now costed like two single MLs. Its 10 T7 3+ wounds for 160% of one barebones infantry squad or 1/2 of the cheapest Leman Russ. Sure the damage sucks and the model is not cheap in real money, but... maybe? It can also shoot in melee with all its weapons since non of the options is blast.

But I completely lack experience to make a well funded decision if that has a quality of its own.

Carnodon looks kinda nice, although it does suffer in one area. It is FW, so you have no idea if it is suddenly going to double in points, or just disappear. Plus I am a bit more partial to the volkite carnodon, but that's mainly because volkite weapons are cool.

Since LR's are objective secured in a spearhead, is anyone got any plans/thoughts on just rocking up with a full tank company in 9th? i.e. 2 tank commanders and gratious numbers of LR? Probably all sponsons removed to keep cost down.

Should be able to fill out a list with 2 Tank Commanders & 9 Leman Russ's + 1 support unit at 2,000points.

Asymmetric wrote:
Since LR's are objective secured in a spearhead, is anyone got any plans/thoughts on just rocking up with a full tank company in 9th? i.e. 2 tank commanders and gratious numbers of LR? Probably all sponsons removed to keep cost down.

Should be able to fill out a list with 2 Tank Commanders & 9 Leman Russ's + 1 support unit at 2,000points.

Was thinking the same but with triple heavy flamers and custom regiment: reroll wound rolls of 1 for flamers and reroll number of hits xD. It could be interesting to park t8 w12 model on objective with 3d6 auto hitting s5 ap-1 shots xD

Gnollu wrote:

Asymmetric wrote:
Since LR's are objective secured in a spearhead, is anyone got any plans/thoughts on just rocking up with a full tank company in 9th? i.e. 2 tank commanders and gratious numbers of LR? Probably all sponsons removed to keep cost down.

Should be able to fill out a list with 2 Tank Commanders & 9 Leman Russ's + 1 support unit at 2,000points.

Was thinking the same but with triple heavy flamers and custom regiment: reroll wound rolls of 1 for flamers and reroll number of hits xD. It could be interesting to park t8 w12 model on objective with 3d6 auto hitting s5 ap-1 shots xD

Interesting, but its only one model. If someone gets a squad up to it and close enough and you only kill all but 2, your opponent may still claim the objective if that squad has Objective Secured (or whatever equivalent they have), squishy bodies may still be useful even if they die a lot!

Now if you're parking 3 Leman Russ's on one, that's another story; still going to be difficult to claim more than 2 objectives reliably even with a large number of tanks, if your opponent can just drown you in bodies.

What's the haps witth the Forge World Leman Russ Conqueror?

I noticed the new rules for heavy weapons is awesome for our flyers. Thunderbolts and Vultures now hit on 3s and Vendettas on 4s. Flyer heavy lists will have a bit of a problem however, as it is only 0-2 flyers per detachment and there doesn't seem to be a flyer detachment anymore. I am also curious how flyers work on a smaller table.

"It looks like the conquerer has no points list associated in ninth, however, don't forget the annihilator does, and you can put one of those on the table with 5 lascannon shots per turn, which makes a good "back of the table" tank that hangs out near astropath buffers, and engenseer, and has the range to pick optimal cover to fire out of. Give uparmor to it, put -1 on it from the astropath, give it +1 save from an astropath, set it inside +! save cover and viola, your tank is -1 to be hit, has an engenseer nearby,. and is 0+ save. People will go flying rodent gak trying to kill that sucker.

DKOK still get the conqueror, although it has to be a mars alpha pattern.

Speaking of dkok, I did watch a rather interesting video by Mordian Glory, extolling the virtues of dkok in 9th. The basic crux was that Grenadiers were not hit nearly as much by point increases as other troops, only being 2 points more than infantry. Plus they still get the conqueror. I don't know if I would say they are the #1 regiment, but they did get better.

At least for the 1 to 79 weeks it takes for the index to arrive...

I was thinking of using my Stormlord (which is modelled with 4 HFsponsons and has an extra HStubber for a total of 3) to transport around 3 veteran squads (probably kitted with plasma and AC) and some assorted support characters to hold the middle of the board and pick fights. Is this a good use of points and CPs or am I being befuddled by the rule of cool?

Asymmetric wrote:
Since LR's are objective secured in a spearhead, is anyone got any plans/thoughts on just rocking up with a full tank company in 9th? i.e. 2 tank commanders and gratious numbers of LR? Probably all sponsons removed to keep cost down.

Should be able to fill out a list with 2 Tank Commanders & 9 Leman Russ's + 1 support unit at 2,000points.

My current temp list runs a Spearhead and Bat (both custom regiments) that use ObjSec LR as the core.

Basically:

6 LRs (1 TC, 5 regs) in the Spearhead (Spotter, Gunnery) runnings Demo or Executioner (TC) with 2 Fully Loaded Manticores.

The Bat is Wilderness Surv and Jury Rig with 2 CCs, 5 Infantry Squads and 9 Armoured Sentinels with Autos.

I use the Sentinels and Infantry to screen and run interferance for the LRs and Manti's. Might try Armageddon just for the ignore -1 AP on Sents.

It does...okay versus Primaris. Honestly okay is about the best you can hope for at the moment with AM. Waiting for the new Codex.

The only other option I can think of would be Death Korps of Krieg. Grenadiers are basically Scions that can't deep strike but only cost 7 points a model and their Alpha pattern LR can take Conqueror cannons.

Made I a purely theoretical list that has like 90 Grenadiers and 7 LR Conquerors across a Spearhead and Battalion.

The Grenadiers have a 3+ save in cover and don't take moral checks from shooting casualities so they are a bit of a pain to remove. They also have BS 3+ Hotshot Lasguns to keep Primaris honest. LR Conqerors for the attack rerolls.

Main concern is that GW will mess it all up once the codex comes out but it is any option now if you have $$$ to burn.

Maxzero wrote:
DKOK.

Genius, thank you!

Been looking at SM lists a fair bit since they seem to be everyone's nemesis at the moment and I have been noticing a trend. The firepower in SM lists tend to fall strictly down into 2 catagoeries: Bolter (Heavy/Rifle/etc) that is str 4 or 5 with a 0 or -1 AP that is used for cleaning infantry and screens and heavier firepower on Dreads and Eradicators to target anything bigger. There is tends to be little if any 'mid range' firepower between them. Anything that can't be dealt with by Bolter fire simple gets handed off to the heavies.

I am wondering if there is a way to exploit this? Contest objective with units that are resistant to Bolter fire forcing the SM to use their much more limited heavy AT weapons on sub optimal targets.

I had an earlier attempt that used Wilderness Survivor Infantry but I then realised that even with a 4+ save Intercessors and the like will still target them simply because they have nothing else to shoot at.

So I came up with this:

Standard LR Spearhead with 1x TC Executioner HQ, 5 x Demo LR and 2 x Manticore Aces.

Then...

A OUTRIDER (yes really) detachment that is an Armageddon regiment:

Tempestor with Rod and Auto reliquary (for 3 orders)
3 x Scion with +2 Plasma
7 x Armoured Sentinels with Auto
3 x Centaur Dedicated transports for Scions (count as ObjSec)

The idea being you use the Sentinels and Centaurs to contest objectives and screen. In cover they have a 2+ save and ignore -1 AP due to regiment bonus. Which makes clearing them off with Bolter fire almost impossible. So the SM player has to use their heavy weapons if they want to clear having to use their best firepower to kill 40 and 60 point vehicles while the LRs and Manticores get to remain unmolested . The Scions not only provide complete target denial but also force the SM to keep some troops back for screening.

Even if they all Scions and Centaurs die the LR still have ObjSec so they can still contest well.

While I have no infantry screens most gunlines remove them anyway with trival ease leaving you exposed anyway.

Vehicles don't get armour save bonuses from cover. Infantry, swarm and some other(most def not vehicles). So unless you have some way besides terrain to get +1 armour save they have 3+ save. And plenty of marines have -2. Their bolters for example will have on turn 2 and 3. Heavy bolters and assault cannons T1

tneva82 wrote:
Vehicles don't get armour save bonuses from cover. Infantry, swarm and some other(most def not vehicles). So unless you have some way besides terrain to get +1 armour save they have 3+ save. And plenty of marines have -2. Their bolters for example will have on turn 2 and 3. Heavy bolters and assault cannons T1

Are you sure? If a vehicle is within cover and is 50% obscured from the shooter it got cover in 8th did it change in 9th?

Change the third paragraph of rules text to read: ‘Infantry units that are entirely on or within a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units that are entirely on or within a ruin only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model.’

Psychic power gives +1 save.

Either way they will be far more survivable then an infantry squad if you need to hold an objective.

The ultimate goal is simply have something cheap and effective that can survive Bolter fire to contest.

Book lists keywords needed to gain benefit of cover. Infantry, swarm and I think it was beast.

You get the -1 to hit from dense and LOS blocking but armour save bonus, better overwatch etc? Lack of those is one thing infantry got over vehicles/monsters in 9th.

Infantry, swarms, and beasts get the cover benefit from area terrain whilst they are inside it. Vehicles can't get this, but can still get the benefits from being obscured behind the terrain.

Do we need infantry bodies in this edition?

Cheap mass ObSec is always good

Speaking of cheap mass ObSec…

A basic Brigade can have 120 Infantry for just 600 points.

Add a Battalion for 3 CP and 300 more points pushes that to 180.

That's 90 ObSec bodies per midfield objective, outnumbering any number of Marines that they care to bring, where it'll take a ludicrous number of shots to push off.

And still you have more than half the force for bringing the boom...

I would ask what units do we need to capture / score points.

MSU is going to be better than larger (6+) sized squads, right? Therefore DKOK feels like a good shout for lots of small squads, leaving lots of points for massed vehicles.

The tricky thing i'm finding is that I want troops (lots of slots) and heavy support from DKOK and HQ & fast attack from AM (gunnery & jury rigged repairs). Oh because I love conquorers and 5-man grenadier squads seem like a good deal.

Glancing at the IA FAQ, they gave the full grinding advance rule to malcador defenders, malcador annihilators, and thunderers? They seem to have missed the standard battle cannon version though.

I think I must have just missed that rule when I looked over the FAQ. I remember malcadors having a weird "not double shooting" version of grinding advance.

This seems a bit weird. By RAW, the annihilator gets to double shoot both the twin lascannon and the demolisher, as both are in the turret weapon list. So for 305 points, you get 6 lascannon shots and 2d6 demolisher shots, on an 18 wound platform. I know 18 wounds is a bad break point for terrain rules, but that is a lot of firepower.

Edit: Looking at it some more, the Thunderer seems extremely viable. 155 points for a double tapping demolisher cannon, with +1 wound over a Russ. You could really put some armour on the table for not many points with them.

I just read over it and it really is a bit weird. It seems to be intended that the Malcadors can shoot their hull Demolisher twice, at least that would explain why the Defender is mentioned gut the Battle tank is not. Bit calling that a turret weapon is a stretch

Perhaps we should make a new IG thread as we're in 9th now? Anyone trying to play catch up has 255 pages to thumb through and 99% of them are out of date now. I think it's safe to say the title alone is a bit dated.

On topic, been working a lot, not had a lot of time to digest 9th changes. I'm not liking the look of things for IG out of the gate, but I need games before I can say with certainty. At bare minimum I expect games against marines to be rough.

I have a feeling to win we're gonna need to completely rethink how we play. The old ways are dead, all hail 9th edition. Instead of lamenting the loss of vigilus and conga lines, we need to be abusing the hell out of outflanking vets/sws/command squads, the fact that morale is a bad joke so morale buffs aren't needed, and figuring out ways to punish enemies for holding the midfield.

I think good points were brought up about Bullgryn, they seem like a strong initial unit to build on. I only own 3 but I may try a unit of 9 and see how they do. From there I think we're going to need more infantry than before, or go all in on vehicles. I have a feeling hybrid is going to suffer when opponents have so many ways to get right where they want to be to nullify tanks. Airplanes may have some new utility with the reserve rules, ability to fire on the move without penalties, etc. But I worry they're going to be fragile for the points.

I'm getting more and more interested in a DKOK grenadier force, backed up by thunderers. Having 90 hotshot guns, without losing sergeant weapons, sounds fun. Plus add in some manticores or other indirect weapons to laugh at cover.

Of course, who knows how stable the build will be?