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2017/06/05 10:20:18
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Ir0njack wrote: Commissars definitely are supreme sniper bait. It sounds like it's going to be a pain in the arse to keep they from getting a bullet through the brain vs armies with easy access to numerous snipers.
If one of you mathhammer wizards has some time I'd love to see how the maul/slabshield bullgryn stack up against the average custodes Vs various targets
Whenever snipers are present, you park your characters behind a wall of vehicles where they can't be seen. 98 points buys 10 T6 3+ wounds and some of the most efficient firepower in the whole game.
As far as Bullgryns are concerned, they're bad compared to Eversors in every which way.
Against the target that the Bullgryns are best at, multiwound targets, for example T7 3+ vehicles, Bullgryns on the charge do 1 wound per every 31,5 points they spend. That's a good score, but that's their optimal situation.
An Eversor Assassin will throw a melta bomb and attack at S5 which is very sub-optimal in the situation, and will still only spend 15,21 points per wound scored. That's an incredible score. Twice as effective as the Bullgryns, even against the Bullgryns' best target. Especially as you consider the 3D6 charge, the deep strike, and the ability to also chew through one wound units with the Executioner Pistol and Neuro Gauntlet.
Against Orks, you see the unflexibility of the Bullgryns. They'll do 1 wound of damage for every 23,6 points they spend, but those are 6 point wounds that they're causing. An Eversor would do 1 wound for every 8,3 points he spends. Three times more efficient. An Eversor is so good he's better at killing Orks than Genestealers are, point by point. And you can have as many of those guys as you want. You can make an assault army that's stronger than many Tyranid armies.
What about survivability? Well, the 2+ armour save is certainly great and T5 isn't bad either. Bullgryns pay 14,33 points per wound, but have no ranged weapons and have no delivery mechanism to combat on their own. Eversor pays only 11,66 points per wound, and still has T4 and a 4+ invulnerable too. He also gets a plethora of special rules. Including the bio-meltdown.
It's not really up in the air which one we'd want, for all situations. That's why my list has 4 Eversors. Depending on how the meta shakes up, I could go all the way to 6.
Of course, now I compared the Bullgryns to one of the best assault units in the game. Only Boyz are more efficient at killing things in combat as the Eversor, but they have weaknesses that the Eversor doesn't have, like morale and not paying for actually getting to the combat in the point by point calculation. In a battle of Eversors vs Orks, the Eversors will almost certainly win, because they'll get the charge, and the surviving Orks will not be able to win.
There ya go.
I've been considering taking an assassin in my list, but correct me if I am wrong don't they give you -1 command points for each one you use? They are not part of the IG codex and from what I understand any allies you take outside of it subtracts one from your command points?
2017/06/05 10:29:47
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Ir0njack wrote: Commissars definitely are supreme sniper bait. It sounds like it's going to be a pain in the arse to keep they from getting a bullet through the brain vs armies with easy access to numerous snipers.
If one of you mathhammer wizards has some time I'd love to see how the maul/slabshield bullgryn stack up against the average custodes Vs various targets
Whenever snipers are present, you park your characters behind a wall of vehicles where they can't be seen. 98 points buys 10 T6 3+ wounds and some of the most efficient firepower in the whole game.
As far as Bullgryns are concerned, they're bad compared to Eversors in every which way.
Against the target that the Bullgryns are best at, multiwound targets, for example T7 3+ vehicles, Bullgryns on the charge do 1 wound per every 31,5 points they spend. That's a good score, but that's their optimal situation.
An Eversor Assassin will throw a melta bomb and attack at S5 which is very sub-optimal in the situation, and will still only spend 15,21 points per wound scored. That's an incredible score. Twice as effective as the Bullgryns, even against the Bullgryns' best target. Especially as you consider the 3D6 charge, the deep strike, and the ability to also chew through one wound units with the Executioner Pistol and Neuro Gauntlet.
Against Orks, you see the unflexibility of the Bullgryns. They'll do 1 wound of damage for every 23,6 points they spend, but those are 6 point wounds that they're causing. An Eversor would do 1 wound for every 8,3 points he spends. Three times more efficient. An Eversor is so good he's better at killing Orks than Genestealers are, point by point. And you can have as many of those guys as you want. You can make an assault army that's stronger than many Tyranid armies.
What about survivability? Well, the 2+ armour save is certainly great and T5 isn't bad either. Bullgryns pay 14,33 points per wound, but have no ranged weapons and have no delivery mechanism to combat on their own. Eversor pays only 11,66 points per wound, and still has T4 and a 4+ invulnerable too. He also gets a plethora of special rules. Including the bio-meltdown.
It's not really up in the air which one we'd want, for all situations. That's why my list has 4 Eversors. Depending on how the meta shakes up, I could go all the way to 6.
Of course, now I compared the Bullgryns to one of the best assault units in the game. Only Boyz are more efficient at killing things in combat as the Eversor, but they have weaknesses that the Eversor doesn't have, like morale and not paying for actually getting to the combat in the point by point calculation. In a battle of Eversors vs Orks, the Eversors will almost certainly win, because they'll get the charge, and the surviving Orks will not be able to win.
There ya go.
I've been considering taking an assassin in my list, but correct me if I am wrong don't they give you -1 command points for each one you use? They are not part of the IG codex and from what I understand any allies you take outside of it subtracts one from your command points?
No, you're mistaken. You're thinking about the auxiliary support detachment, which is intended for situations where you run out of force organisation slots, but really, really want one more unit. Like, you can take 6 heavy support choices, but you really, really want a 7th, so you take it as auxiliary.
My Assassins are all taken as normal elites choices in the same battalion or brigade detachment as the rest of the army. As long as all your selections share one keyword (In this case <Imperium> ) you can mix and match as you choose. Before you ask, the answer is yes, if you want Saint Celestine or a Space Marines Captain or whatever else in the Imperium to lead your Astra Militarum army, you can take it as a normal HQ choice.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 10:32:18
2017/06/05 10:41:06
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Therion wrote: No, you're mistaken. You're thinking about the auxiliary support detachment, which is intended for situations where you run out of force organisation slots, but really, really want one more unit. Like, you can take 6 heavy support choices, but you really, really want a 7th, so you take it as auxiliary.
My Assassins are all taken as normal elites choices in the same battalion or brigade detachment as the rest of the army. As long as all your selections share one keyword (In this case <Imperium> ) you can mix and match as you choose. Before you ask, the answer is yes, if you want Saint Celestine or a Space Marines Captain or whatever else in the Imperium to lead your Astra Militarum army, you can take it as a normal HQ choice.
Very interesting. Thanks for the reply!
2017/06/05 11:24:31
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
For some fun stuff, what do you guys think about the Stormlord, fully kitted out, carrying 20 Heavy Weapons Teams with mixed weaponry (mortars and lascannons). Yarrick would hide behind the Stormlord model, buffing all of them with the re-roll. A Primaris Psyker would hide right there too, buffing the Stormlord with a 2+ armour save. If there's some really big terrain, you could get cover too for a 1+ save.
You could park two Manticores behind the Stormlord, so they'd get the Yarrick re-rolls too.
Deploy everything in a corner on your deployment zone. Dakka dakka. Stormlord get assaulted? He has 9 attacks in combat that do D3 wounds each. Then he drives away from the combat and shoots right away with everything, including the passengers.
Fun stuff? Best use of a big model yet? Everything else sucks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 11:27:43
2017/06/05 11:49:57
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
-If celestine dies and fails her 2+/dies second time, her Geminae get removed too so no Spirit of Martyr resurrection
That's incorrect. The Geminae only get removed if Celestine rolls a 1 the first time she dies. If she successfully revives and is subsequently killed, the Geminae aren't removed as well.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2017/06/05 11:52:49
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Therion wrote: It's not really up in the air which one we'd want, for all situations. That's why my list has 4 Eversors. Depending on how the meta shakes up, I could go all the way to 6.
I can't really blame you for the choice but my fluff-loving side cringes at this. Are inquisitors any good now? I would give you less of a (albeit friendly) hard time for that choice if an Inquisitor was about.
Therion wrote: For some fun stuff, what do you guys think about the Stormlord, fully kitted out, carrying 20 Heavy Weapons Teams with mixed weaponry (mortars and lascannons). Yarrick would hide behind the Stormlord model, buffing all of them with the re-roll. A Primaris Psyker would hide right there too, buffing the Stormlord with a 2+ armour save. If there's some really big terrain, you could get cover too for a 1+ save.
It does seem like a lot of eggs in one basket. A Shadowsword could rip the heart out of you army in a single turn. Also, Yarrick can't buff the HWTs, as they can't be affected by anything whilst inside a vehicle, unless specifically stated otherwise.
Therion wrote: It's not really up in the air which one we'd want, for all situations. That's why my list has 4 Eversors. Depending on how the meta shakes up, I could go all the way to 6.
I can't really blame you for the choice but my fluff-loving side cringes at this. Are inquisitors any good now? I would give you less of a (albeit friendly) hard time for that choice if an Inquisitor was about.
Therion wrote: For some fun stuff, what do you guys think about the Stormlord, fully kitted out, carrying 20 Heavy Weapons Teams with mixed weaponry (mortars and lascannons). Yarrick would hide behind the Stormlord model, buffing all of them with the re-roll. A Primaris Psyker would hide right there too, buffing the Stormlord with a 2+ armour save. If there's some really big terrain, you could get cover too for a 1+ save.
It does seem like a lot of eggs in one basket. A Shadowsword could rip the heart out of you army in a single turn. Also, Yarrick can't buff the HWTs, as they can't be affected by anything whilst inside a vehicle, unless specifically stated otherwise.
Yeah, I realise the HWS can't be affected, but Yarrick buffing the Stormlord+2 Manticores (or something else) is already a force multiplier that should pay Yarrick's points back in just a single turn of shooting.
The HWS are extremely points efficient firepower, and the Stormlord addresses their biggest weakness (line of sight and survivability). I really don't expect to see Shadowswords, ever, anywhere, but theoretically yeah that gun can do damage. But what kind of an egg basket would it really be? There's really no tax there, as the stuff you're taking with the Stormlord is something you could take otherwise too. So what we're talking about here is the price of the Stormlord (500-600) away from your other stuff, but in a 2000 points army you'll still be able to get Plasma Scions or Eversors or Taurox Primes or Ratlings a combination of them all, or something else.
I'm not saying it's optimal, I'm just thinking it's a good enough use of a model with the titanic keyword. It really won't be easy to kill once it gets the armor buff from the Primaris Psyker, and this army might actually finish deploying first (7 units in the transport don't set up at all) and get the first turn the majority of the time.
The bigger (more expensive) the target unit for a 're-roll to hit' or '+1 to saving throw' buff is, the more value you naturally get out of the one giving the buff. A 40 point Psyker buffing a 600 point tank is actually very much worth the points.
As far as the background thing is concerned regarding the Eversors, I have a theme and backstory planned for my army that will make them fit in really well.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 12:10:47
2017/06/05 12:05:08
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Biophysical wrote: How does thecStormlord drive away from combat without it being a withdraw move?
The Steel Behemoth special rule, allowing it to Fall Back in the movement phase and still shoot or charge the same turn. It can also fire all of its weapons even if it chooses to remain in close combat.
2017/06/05 12:50:10
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Therion wrote: I really don't expect to see Shadowswords, ever, anywhere, but theoretically yeah that gun can do damage.
I was actually looking forward to fielding mine, as I can do an easy barrel swap between Shadowsword/Banesword/Stormsword. It seems like the best variant for sitting still and not getting the -1 to hit. I guess that the Stormlord is pretty nice but I really don't like using transports that I never plan to disembark from. Probably the fact that I don't like painting a load of models which, in an optimal game, will never actually need to come out of the case. I think if I was going for "fun Stormlord", I would put 4 flamer sponsons on it and fill it full of Bullgryns, Commissars, Priests, Culexus, Psykers and all kinds of other goodies. Then drive it into the enemy and try to wreck them.
Biophysical wrote: How does thecStormlord drive away from combat without it being a withdraw move?
The Steel Behemoth special rule, allowing it to Fall Back in the movement phase and still shoot or charge the same turn. It can also fire all of its weapons even if it chooses to remain in close combat.
Ah, thanks. I guess I haven't spent much time looking at Superheavies.
2017/06/05 13:18:17
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Even if the conscripts die in one round of combat, its 150 points protecting your entire army.
Also with commissars around you only lose 1 to battle shock at the end of the round.
Also, someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that models can actually kill themselves out of combat if they kill to far and cant pile in within 1". Same with units that have been charged if they are no longer within 1' they are no longer engaged.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Leth wrote: Also, someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that models can actually kill themselves out of combat if they kill to far and cant pile in within 1". Same with units that have been charged if they are no longer within 1' they are no longer engaged.
Yup. You do have a lot of control over what you want to happen in combat now, as the defender removes casualties. You can choose to kill your front line, putting you out of combat and able to shoot and charge next turn. Or, you can kill the back models so that you can still get your melee attacks this turn, then fall back next turn to get fire on the enemy. Hell, I just realised that if you get charged by two units, then you use the casualties from the first unit to take the second one out of combat. Instantly saving yourself a lot of casualties there. These ideas work perfectly with a large, homogeneous unit like conscript, as you have no models that are better than any other and would hurt more to lose.
Leth wrote: Also, someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that models can actually kill themselves out of combat if they kill to far and cant pile in within 1". Same with units that have been charged if they are no longer within 1' they are no longer engaged.
Yup. You do have a lot of control over what you want to happen in combat now, as the defender removes casualties. You can choose to kill your front line, putting you out of combat and able to shoot and charge next turn. Or, you can kill the back models so that you can still get your melee attacks this turn, then fall back next turn to get fire on the enemy. Hell, I just realised that if you get charged by two units, then you use the casualties from the first unit to take the second one out of combat. Instantly saving yourself a lot of casualties there. These ideas work perfectly with a large, homogeneous unit like conscript, as you have no models that are better than any other and would hurt more to lose.
Yeah, People are going to learn very quick how important activation order is.
A few times I activated things in the wrong order and it cost me. The chargers always going first almost cost me a few times as he would be able to take casualties putting my guys out of combat without the required pile ins.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 14:02:47
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
I'm actually liking what I am seeing with the close combat rules. I have always hated how combat works, but now that characters are separate units and you do things a unit at a time, it seems much easier.
Terrify is a good power. 2 extra casulties might not intrest chaff like orks or IG but its good against elite units. Also you cant snipe models with Gaze of the Emperor since it causes mortal wounds to a unit. You can snipe characters thou but 2d6" range is very limiting.
Reread the psykic power. You apply mortal wounds explicitly to the model underneath the line.
2017/06/05 14:42:15
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Terrify is a good power. 2 extra casulties might not intrest chaff like orks or IG but its good against elite units. Also you cant snipe models with Gaze of the Emperor since it causes mortal wounds to a unit. You can snipe characters thou but 2d6" range is very limiting.
Reread the psykic power. You apply mortal wounds explicitly to the model underneath the line.
Nope. You roll a dice for each model under the line, but for every 4+ the unit takes a mortal wound. So the defender can still apply them wherever they like.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 14:43:05
Ir0njack wrote: Commissars definitely are supreme sniper bait. It sounds like it's going to be a pain in the arse to keep they from getting a bullet through the brain vs armies with easy access to numerous snipers.
If one of you mathhammer wizards has some time I'd love to see how the maul/slabshield bullgryn stack up against the average custodes Vs various targets
Whenever snipers are present, you park your characters behind a wall of vehicles where they can't be seen. 98 points buys 10 T6 3+ wounds and some of the most efficient firepower in the whole game.
As far as Bullgryns are concerned, they're bad compared to Eversors in every which way.
Against the target that the Bullgryns are best at, multiwound targets, for example T7 3+ vehicles, Bullgryns on the charge do 1 wound per every 31,5 points they spend. That's a good score, but that's their optimal situation.
An Eversor Assassin will throw a melta bomb and attack at S5 which is very sub-optimal in the situation, and will still only spend 15,21 points per wound scored. That's an incredible score. Twice as effective as the Bullgryns, even against the Bullgryns' best target. Especially as you consider the 3D6 charge, the deep strike, and the ability to also chew through one wound units with the Executioner Pistol and Neuro Gauntlet.
Against Orks, you see the unflexibility of the Bullgryns. They'll do 1 wound of damage for every 23,6 points they spend, but those are 6 point wounds that they're causing. An Eversor would do 1 wound for every 8,3 points he spends. Three times more efficient. An Eversor is so good he's better at killing Orks than Genestealers are, point by point. And you can have as many of those guys as you want. You can make an assault army that's stronger than many Tyranid armies.
What about survivability? Well, the 2+ armour save is certainly great and T5 isn't bad either. Bullgryns pay 14,33 points per wound, but have no ranged weapons and have no delivery mechanism to combat on their own. Eversor pays only 11,66 points per wound, and still has T4 and a 4+ invulnerable too. He also gets a plethora of special rules. Including the bio-meltdown.
It's not really up in the air which one we'd want, for all situations. That's why my list has 4 Eversors. Depending on how the meta shakes up, I could go all the way to 6.
Of course, now I compared the Bullgryns to one of the best assault units in the game. Only Boyz are more efficient at killing things in combat as the Eversor, but they have weaknesses that the Eversor doesn't have, like morale and not paying for actually getting to the combat in the point by point calculation. In a battle of Eversors vs Orks, the Eversors will almost certainly win, because they'll get the charge, and the surviving Orks will not be able to win.
There ya go.
I've been considering taking an assassin in my list, but correct me if I am wrong don't they give you -1 command points for each one you use? They are not part of the IG codex and from what I understand any allies you take outside of it subtracts one from your command points?
No, you're mistaken. You're thinking about the auxiliary support detachment, which is intended for situations where you run out of force organisation slots, but really, really want one more unit. Like, you can take 6 heavy support choices, but you really, really want a 7th, so you take it as auxiliary.
My Assassins are all taken as normal elites choices in the same battalion or brigade detachment as the rest of the army. As long as all your selections share one keyword (In this case <Imperium> ) you can mix and match as you choose. Before you ask, the answer is yes, if you want Saint Celestine or a Space Marines Captain or whatever else in the Imperium to lead your Astra Militarum army, you can take it as a normal HQ choice.
This doesn't make a difference now, but when the codexs are released, we may have some serious incentive to keep a list as all Astra Militarum or even a particular regiment. Guard, however, are pretty well equipped to deal with this. We would have to decide on whether to take another detachment with tax units, or just spending the one command point to get your assassin. With the amount of point guard can get, it may be worth considering.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 14:49:11
2017/06/05 14:53:02
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Ir0njack wrote: Commissars definitely are supreme sniper bait. It sounds like it's going to be a pain in the arse to keep they from getting a bullet through the brain vs armies with easy access to numerous snipers.
If one of you mathhammer wizards has some time I'd love to see how the maul/slabshield bullgryn stack up against the average custodes Vs various targets
Whenever snipers are present, you park your characters behind a wall of vehicles where they can't be seen. 98 points buys 10 T6 3+ wounds and some of the most efficient firepower in the whole game.
As far as Bullgryns are concerned, they're bad compared to Eversors in every which way.
Against the target that the Bullgryns are best at, multiwound targets, for example T7 3+ vehicles, Bullgryns on the charge do 1 wound per every 31,5 points they spend. That's a good score, but that's their optimal situation.
An Eversor Assassin will throw a melta bomb and attack at S5 which is very sub-optimal in the situation, and will still only spend 15,21 points per wound scored. That's an incredible score. Twice as effective as the Bullgryns, even against the Bullgryns' best target. Especially as you consider the 3D6 charge, the deep strike, and the ability to also chew through one wound units with the Executioner Pistol and Neuro Gauntlet.
Against Orks, you see the unflexibility of the Bullgryns. They'll do 1 wound of damage for every 23,6 points they spend, but those are 6 point wounds that they're causing. An Eversor would do 1 wound for every 8,3 points he spends. Three times more efficient. An Eversor is so good he's better at killing Orks than Genestealers are, point by point. And you can have as many of those guys as you want. You can make an assault army that's stronger than many Tyranid armies.
What about survivability? Well, the 2+ armour save is certainly great and T5 isn't bad either. Bullgryns pay 14,33 points per wound, but have no ranged weapons and have no delivery mechanism to combat on their own. Eversor pays only 11,66 points per wound, and still has T4 and a 4+ invulnerable too. He also gets a plethora of special rules. Including the bio-meltdown.
It's not really up in the air which one we'd want, for all situations. That's why my list has 4 Eversors. Depending on how the meta shakes up, I could go all the way to 6.
Of course, now I compared the Bullgryns to one of the best assault units in the game. Only Boyz are more efficient at killing things in combat as the Eversor, but they have weaknesses that the Eversor doesn't have, like morale and not paying for actually getting to the combat in the point by point calculation. In a battle of Eversors vs Orks, the Eversors will almost certainly win, because they'll get the charge, and the surviving Orks will not be able to win.
There ya go.
I've been considering taking an assassin in my list, but correct me if I am wrong don't they give you -1 command points for each one you use? They are not part of the IG codex and from what I understand any allies you take outside of it subtracts one from your command points?
No, you're mistaken. You're thinking about the auxiliary support detachment, which is intended for situations where you run out of force organisation slots, but really, really want one more unit. Like, you can take 6 heavy support choices, but you really, really want a 7th, so you take it as auxiliary.
My Assassins are all taken as normal elites choices in the same battalion or brigade detachment as the rest of the army. As long as all your selections share one keyword (In this case <Imperium> ) you can mix and match as you choose. Before you ask, the answer is yes, if you want Saint Celestine or a Space Marines Captain or whatever else in the Imperium to lead your Astra Militarum army, you can take it as a normal HQ choice.
This doesn't make a difference now, but when the codexs are released, we may have some serious incentive to keep a list as all Astra Militarum or even a particular regiment. Guard, however, are pretty well equipped to deal with this. We would have to decide on whether to take another detachment with tax units, or just spending the one command point to get your assassin. With the amount of point guard can get, it may be worth considering.
If we look to the deathguard as an example of how it might function we can see that Deathguard might have everyone get "disgustingly resilient" or how according to the print version of the Faction books(someone saw in stores) all DW get access to the special issue ammunition as default, even if not in their profiles.
If I had to guess we will see that specific factions get access to, and are the only ones who can use, specific strategems. In addition a lot of buffs are tied to specific faction keywords and so we can probably expect that to continue going forward as a way to specifically buff people who take single faction armies. Personally I think it is a great way to make it so you can take anything you want, but if you want to be fluffy here is a boost for your units to make them more efficient. Well done GW.
I dont think we will see incentives to keep them ALL one faction within a detachment, I think it will just be that fewer units will benefit from access to strategems, character buffs, etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 14:53:53
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
I don't even consider my new army an Astra Militarum army. I'm building an <Imperial> army. One of the things I like most about the project. Tons and tons of options, and every future <Imperial> release might have a unit or two I could incorporate to the force. The army will have the exact strengths and weaknesses as I intend it to have. It's a new day. Astra Militarum don't have a weakness to close combat, unless you explicitly want it to have that weakness, and so and so forth.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:13:34
2017/06/05 15:13:48
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Therion wrote: I don't even consider my new army an Astra Militarum army. I'm building an <Imperial> army. One of the things I like most about the project. Tons and tons of options, and every future <Imperial> release might have a unit or two I could incorporate to the force. The army will have the exact strengths and weaknesses as I intended it to have.
It does seem like a really good way to let people diversify their army, taking bits from all over. I guess that painting a unit from each different list may be more fun than your 200th Guardsman. Hell, you could even try out some Chaos and run your Guard as Renegades. Or a genestealer cult. Or maybe even Gue'vesa if they come around.
Therion wrote: I don't even consider my new army an Astra Militarum army. I'm building an <Imperial> army. One of the things I like most about the project. Tons and tons of options, and every future <Imperial> release might have a unit or two I could incorporate to the force. The army will have the exact strengths and weaknesses as I intended it to have.
It does seem like a really good way to let people diversify their army, taking bits from all over. I guess that painting a unit from each different list may be more fun than your 200th Guardsman. Hell, you could even try out some Chaos and run your Guard as Renegades. Or a genestealer cult. Or maybe even Gue'vesa if they come around.
That's what I have always done. My Space Marine armies were from a DIY chapter already back in 3rd edition, so that I could use any Space Marines codex, or even Chaos. I am doing exactly what you just said, giving my force a bit of a sinister theme, with some FW Renegade heads and bitz, and a paint scheme to match. It'll look evil, and it won't be clear whether the army are grim dark good guys, or bad guys. A Commissar could be some hooded priest with a laspistol and power sword. The freedom to use imagination is great. Weaponry wise, I always keep it WYSIWYG.
With small effort nobody has ever had a problem. Quite the contrary in fact.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:18:20
2017/06/05 15:20:15
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Therion wrote: That's what I have always done. My Space Marine armies were from a DIY chapter already back in 3rd edition, so that I could use any Space Marines codex, or even Chaos. I am doing exactly what you just said, giving my force a bit of a sinister theme, with some FW Renegade heads and bitz, and a paint scheme to match. It'll look evil, and it won't be clear whether the army are grim dark good guys, or bad guys. A Commissar could be some hooded priest with a laspistol and power sword. The freedom to use imagination is great.
With small effort nobody has ever had a problem. Quite the contrary in fact.
Yeah, not much visual difference between heretic filth and loyal hive gangers. I would probably use the Commissar as a chance to change the theme of the army by having 2 models, a chaotic demagogue and an upstanding Commissar. Mainly for the visual contrast between the two models (but really because a black coated Commissar looks so cool!).
Therion wrote: I don't even consider my new army an Astra Militarum army. I'm building an <Imperial> army.
I'm considering building one that's almost entirely IG, but with a non-IG character leading it. I think the IGHQs are definitely functional, but I find them rather uninteresting for the overall leader (especially now that Company Commanders are dime a dozen).
I might go with Celestine, albeit refluffed a bit. I want to have a go at making a sort of fallen-angel model based on a DE Scourge.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2017/06/05 15:27:40
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Therion wrote: That's what I have always done. My Space Marine armies were from a DIY chapter already back in 3rd edition, so that I could use any Space Marines codex, or even Chaos. I am doing exactly what you just said, giving my force a bit of a sinister theme, with some FW Renegade heads and bitz, and a paint scheme to match. It'll look evil, and it won't be clear whether the army are grim dark good guys, or bad guys. A Commissar could be some hooded priest with a laspistol and power sword. The freedom to use imagination is great.
With small effort nobody has ever had a problem. Quite the contrary in fact.
Yeah, not much visual difference between heretic filth and loyal hive gangers. I would probably use the Commissar as a chance to change the theme of the army by having 2 models, a chaotic demagogue and an upstanding Commissar. Mainly for the visual contrast between the two models (but really because a black coated Commissar looks so cool!).
Really depends on the theme, yeah. I really love a lot of the models that will be used. The Tempestus Scions are great too when you don't paint the trims and go for black face masks. I'll be doing something similar to these. I'm absolutely psyched.
I'm ordering some Eversors from Ebay, couple of the old models too, but in the future I might use some twisted creatures as assassins instead. Resident evil experiments? Depends how dark it goes. I'm starting with the 'cynical near future special forces who don't remember what the difference between good and evil was' theme. Anyway, we digress
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:33:28
2017/06/05 15:46:29
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Therion wrote: For some fun stuff, what do you guys think about the Stormlord, fully kitted out, carrying 20 Heavy Weapons Teams with mixed weaponry (mortars and lascannons). Yarrick would hide behind the Stormlord model, buffing all of them with the re-roll. A Primaris Psyker would hide right there too, buffing the Stormlord with a 2+ armour save. If there's some really big terrain, you could get cover too for a 1+ save.
You could park two Manticores behind the Stormlord, so they'd get the Yarrick re-rolls too.
Deploy everything in a corner on your deployment zone. Dakka dakka. Stormlord get assaulted? He has 9 attacks in combat that do D3 wounds each. Then he drives away from the combat and shoots right away with everything, including the passengers.
Fun stuff? Best use of a big model yet? Everything else sucks.
I'm really liking this idea. One of my favorite parts about it is the Baneblade-chassis vehicles actually have a pretty decent close combat stat line. If an enemy unit does manage to get into melee with you, the Stormlord will average 3 S9 AP -2 D3 hits on them. Then you get to pull back and shoot.
I think some people are going to be very, very surprised when the giant tanks smack their CC units around.
2017/06/05 15:59:07
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
So what happens when you move your 50+ Conscripts to an objective and the Commissar has to get out of his cover? As well, what is his range on his instant orders?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:59:28
Feed the poor war gamer with money.
2017/06/05 16:06:03
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Well you need to target snipers if they are going to be a problem to your battle plan. I'm considering taking 2x50 conscripts with 2 Commissars backing them up, so at least there is some redundancy. My plan is to rush waves of men at the enemy though, 5th ed Chenkov style.
Yep, also with controlling of removing casualties and big units it is much easier to trail a unit back to the aura than it is with MSU. Just put the character behind LOS blocking terrain and you are safe from snipers.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
So platoons have gone, right? Seems a bit of a shame from a fluff standpoint, but as someone who's been wanting to give Guard a crack for ages but never really got round to it because of the high barrier to entry of painting up ANOTHER horde army, I feel like this could be a good jumping-off point. How would you more knowledgeable Guard folks rate a Company Commander, Tank Commander, 3-4 infantry squads and one or two more Russes as a starting point?
Depends how dark it goes. I'm starting with the 'cynical near future special forces who don't remember what the difference between good and evil was' theme. Anyway, we digress 
