Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Leth wrote:
Anyone know of any third party lines that would make good tanith?

Well I know Victoria Miniatures are well regarded. Had a look for a Tanith-style model, found these.

 Leth wrote:


Anyone know of any third party lines that would make good tanith?

I don't know what Tanith looks like specifically, but Victoria Miniatures has tons of GW compatible bits. Could probably find a combo that fits your needs.

No fair Trickstick, our time stamps are literally the same, but yours is first.

I'll third Victoria. I think they've been making resin models for all the retired ig lines. I picked up some not-mordians from them that arrived about a week ago. The styles are different, but will blend in pretty well. Their lasguns in particular are pretty different looking, so I'm using mine for sniper riflea. I don't care much for the rest of their weapons, but they also have empty arms so you can use the gw weapons if you want.

Yea, Victoria Miniatures are what you want. They gots the gudz.

I just don't like the 10 mans. They lack BS even with orders, and from my experience with them on small games using what we know, get deleted in melee before you could say "Everyday we stray farther and farther from the Emperors Light".

 Blacksails wrote:
No fair Trickstick, our time stamps are literally the same, but yours is first.

I guess I just have a better quality of Navigator, no warp-delays for me.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
I just don't like the 10 mans. They lack BS even with orders, and from my experience with them on small games using what we know, get deleted in melee before you could say "Everyday we stray farther and farther from the Emperors Light".

You could see getting deleted as an advantage. If they charge you and do 23 wounds, yet only kill 10, that is a win. As long as you pay attention to spacing and avoid multi-charges.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Yea, Victoria Miniatures are what you want. They gots the gudz.

I just don't like the 10 mans. They lack BS even with orders, and from my experience with them on small games using what we know, get deleted in melee before you could say "Everyday we stray farther and farther from the Emperors Light".

I agree it is definatly an adjustment. and they probably have lost a lot of their usefulness with the changes to everything else. However one thing I really like is that they have a vox, and so it is easy to get orders to the guys at the front who are holding the line without actually risking one of your characters to do it.

Also I think those Victoria cloaked torsos and legs are perfect. I think if I can get some loose hands and find a different set of heads then it should work just fine! Thanks for the heads up. I am already getting their sniper rifles to add to my kriegers after I saw an awesome conversion with them.

But one thing I am strongly considering is taking advantage of our command squads. I think two snipers and a heavy weapons team for sub 50 points is a solid investment when they have the veterans profile.

Personally I am thrown off on the pricing but maybe that is intentional as we dont have a profile for "heavy weapon teams" specifically. I assumed it was going to be the cost of two guardsmen, however if you look at the cost for a heavy weapons squad it is 4 points per model not 8.

So do we pay for both guardsmen like it implies, or do we just pay for one as the pricing for the heavy weapons squads imply.

Huh, that's a good point. If taking a heavy weapon shaves 4 points off the base cost of the squad, that's pretty significant.

In a large, infantry-heavy army those 4 points can really add up. Could probably get a whole extra squad out of that.

 Leth wrote:
So do we pay for both guardsmen like it implies, or do we just pay for one as the pricing for the heavy weapons squads imply.

I would say both. The "infantry squad" entry in the point list states that it is a 10 model squad, it doesn't have the option to pay for just 8. It's not like you pay for the sergeant separately, why the HWT?

 Trickstick wrote:

 Leth wrote:
So do we pay for both guardsmen like it implies, or do we just pay for one as the pricing for the heavy weapons squads imply.

I would say both. The "infantry squad" entry in the point list states that it is a 10 model squad, it doesn't have the option to pay for just 8. It's not like you pay for the sergeant separately, why the HWT?

Yep, that is how I plan to go about it, however it does help mitigate the cost of the HWTs and so they become a little more attractive. Still not as attractive as the cmd squads to me lol.

 Leth wrote:

So do we pay for both guardsmen like it implies, or do we just pay for one as the pricing for the heavy weapons squads imply.

As I read it you still have to buy the 2 guardsmen that form the heavy weapon team, so they are 4 pts more expensive than a standalone heavy weapons team in a HWS. Considering how cheap the heavy weapons are, paying 8 points for the crew is still a good deal... especially with the durability you gain by having better morale and ablative wounds to keep them alive, as well as easier order access with a vox in the squad.

Also another big incentive to put heavy weapon teams into squads is that you effectively get back the 2 guardsmen models per squad that get replaced with the heavy weapons team, which you can then use to build yet another heavy weapon team with a spare base or for forming an entire new squads (especially SWS or CCS). Saves a bunch of money.

I see the point of conscripts but I think I'll stick with regular squads for the forseeable future, vox access, special weapons and a 1pt bolter for the sergeant (who keeps his chainsword for the extra attack!) as well as not being completely reliant on Commissars (in case they get sniped or end up outside their aura bubbles) justifies the exta 1PPM for me. Even as chaff units they do a good and cheap job for 48 points per squad with a bolter and a flamer (which can put some serious hurt on turn one chargers such as Gaunts or Orcs, especially if they do get to pull off a multi-charge). If you want some long range all-comers punch then throw in a 8 pt heavy bolter (hey, you only lose one lasgun doing that too ^^!) One thing to consider when comparing Infantry to conscript squads is that the Sergeant is a free upgrade and that you get to use grenades more efficiently and more of them (the latter admittingly a really minor bonus).

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

 Leth wrote:

So do we pay for both guardsmen like it implies, or do we just pay for one as the pricing for the heavy weapons squads imply.

As I read it you still have to buy the 2 guardsmen that form the heavy weapon team, so they are 4 pts more expensive than a standalone heavy weapons team in a HWS. Considering how cheap the heavy weapons are, paying 8 points for the crew is still a good deal... especially with the durability you gain by having better morale and ablative wounds to keep them alive, as well as easier order access with a vox in the squad.

Also another big incentive to put heavy weapon teams into squads is that you effectively save the 2 guardsmen models per squad that get replaced with the heavy weapons team back, which you can then use to build yet another heavy weapon team with a spare base. Saves a bunch of money.

I see the point of conscripts but I think I'll stick with regular squads for the forseeable future, vox access, special weapons and a 1pt bolter for the sergeant (who keeps his chainsword for the extra attack!) as well es being not completely reliant on Commissars (in case they get sniped or end up outside their aura bubbles) justifies the exta 1PPM for me. Even as chaff units they do a good and cheap job for 58 points per squad with a bolter and a flamer (which can put some serious hurt on turn one chargers such as Gaunts or Orcs, especially if they do get to pull off a multi-charge). If you want some long range all-comers punch then throw in a 8 pt heavy bolter (hey, you only lose one lasgun doing that too ^^!) One thing to consider when comparing Infantry to conscript squads is that the Sergeant is a free upgrade and that you get to use grenades more officiently and more of them (the latter admittingly a really minor bonus).

O yeah I totally agree, I will also be taking infantry squads. Just one unit of 50 for the bubble wrap while I invest points elsewhere.

sorry if i missed this, i know i can take multiple detachments (IG, plus sisters, plus Knights for example)

But can i have (in a Battalion detachment) Vulkan (HQ), with BA chaplains (ELITE) and IG scions (Troops) and Space Wolf Bikes (FA), and Sister Excorcists (HEAVY) and still get my +3 CP for a legitimate BN detachment?

If that's the case Imperium Forces are (somewhat objectively) broken compared to the stand alone races (Orks, Tau) as we can mitigate any drawbacks with optimized units.

That being said whoot, SUPER AWESOME IMPERIUM FORCE DELTA NINJA TEAM to the rescue (trademarked and copyrighted)

 RegulusBlack wrote:
sorry if i missed this, i know i can take multiple detachments (IG, plus sisters, plus Knights for example)

But can i have (in a Battalion detachment) Vulkan (HQ), with BA chaplains (ELITE) and IG scions (Troops) and Space Wolf Bikes (FA), and Sister Excorcists (HEAVY) and still get my +3 CP for a legitimate BN detachment?

If that's the case Imperium Forces are (somewhat objectively) broken compared to the stand alone races (Orks, Tau) as we can mitigate any drawbacks with optimized units.

That being said whoot, SUPER AWESOME IMPERIUM FORCE DELTA NINJA TEAM to the rescue (trademarked and copyrighted)

Yeah, you can just build an army using the Imperium keyword. You are giving up on synergy though, as a lot of auras only work on their own armies.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Yea, Victoria Miniatures are what you want. They gots the gudz.

I just don't like the 10 mans. They lack BS even with orders, and from my experience with them on small games using what we know, get deleted in melee before you could say "Everyday we stray farther and farther from the Emperors Light".

Victoria is great for sure. I don't think they have much in the way of Tanith style heads though -- but check out these from Max Mini: http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/head-swaps/desert-dwellers-heads-bits

I have those heads and they fit great with existing IG bodies (and presumably with Victoria's male IG bodies as well, if you like the uniform styling there).

 RegulusBlack wrote:

But can i have (in a Battalion detachment) Vulkan (HQ), with BA chaplains (ELITE) and IG scions (Troops) and Space Wolf Bikes (FA), and Sister Excorcists (HEAVY) and still get my +3 CP for a legitimate BN detachment?

Yes, you can. It is not as awesome as it sounds though, as most of the buffs on those models won't work on each other. In your example Vulkan and BA chaplain could not use their buff abilities on any of your other units, as those abilities work only on the members of their chapters.

 Crimson wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:

But can i have (in a Battalion detachment) Vulkan (HQ), with BA chaplains (ELITE) and IG scions (Troops) and Space Wolf Bikes (FA), and Sister Excorcists (HEAVY) and still get my +3 CP for a legitimate BN detachment?

Yes, you can. It is not as awesome as it sounds though, as most of the buffs on those models won't work on each other. In your example Vulkan and BA chaplain could not use their buff abilities on any of your other units, as those abilities work only on the members of their chapters.

Yeah honestly finding that some of those auras are just as good if not more consistent that Command point rerolls. having a few points is nice for other strats though.

 Aesthete wrote:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Yea, Victoria Miniatures are what you want. They gots the gudz.

I just don't like the 10 mans. They lack BS even with orders, and from my experience with them on small games using what we know, get deleted in melee before you could say "Everyday we stray farther and farther from the Emperors Light".

Victoria is great for sure. I don't think they have much in the way of Tanith style heads though -- but check out these from Max Mini: http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/head-swaps/desert-dwellers-heads-bits

I have those heads and they fit great with existing IG bodies (and presumably with Victoria's male IG bodies as well, if you like the uniform styling there).

Those look more Tallarn that Tanith

Still, a lot of strategies have to deal with Turn 1 deletion. Melee will kill us more than ever with how quick we'll be getting into it. Im not actually scared of us against more shooty armies or combos, but Tyranids and Orks can wipe the floor if we aren't too careful. More and more I am really liking vehicle mounted or infantry based flamers.

So what kind of upgrades, if any, are people thinking about for infantry squads? I'm seriously having trouble deciding how I want to equip them now. Flamers or plasma guns, even plasma pistols and power swords, seem like a good choice, and maybe a missile launcher for versatility? Then again though, those prices quickly add up to the price of the squad itself. There is definitely a case to be made for pure lasguns too. Missile launcher and flamer though seems like a pretty good idea.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Still, a lot of strategies have to deal with Turn 1 deletion. Melee will kill us more than ever with how quick we'll be getting into it. Im not actually scared of us against more shooty armies or combos, but Tyranids and Orks can wipe the floor if we aren't too careful. More and more I am really liking vehicle mounted or infantry based flamers.

Gotta love old Mr. Yellow. Just be careful about units that can make long charges, as it is easy to stay outside of the 8" flamer range.

 Trickstick wrote:

I would say both. The "infantry squad" entry in the point list states that it is a 10 model squad, it doesn't have the option to pay for just 8. It's not like you pay for the sergeant separately, why the HWT?

I agree with this. You buy 10 models at the regular price per model. You must buy 10, no more, and no less. At that point, two of them may form into a heavy weapons team. This doesn't cost anything since you're not buying more models, but having two of the models you've bought form a team, but then they must take wargear from the heavy weapons list (which does cost something).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I still don't quite get is when you pay for wargear. So, say a Rough Rider is 8 points per model. But each one comes standard with a riding lance, which is 2 points per model. So then is the actual points per model 10?

That's what it seems like, but I would appreciate clarification.

 daedalus wrote:
What I still don't quite get is when you pay for wargear. So, say a Rough Rider is 8 points per model. But each one comes standard with a riding lance, which is 2 points per model. So then is the actual points per model 10?

That's what it seems like, but I would appreciate clarification.

You've got this right. Another way to frame it is that you select your wargear options THEN go add up points.

Take the example of a Leman Russ.

It comes with battle cannon and heavy bolter, I want to add 2 more bolters and a hunter killer. When I cost out that unit I do:

Base + BC + 3x heavy B + HK.

If instead I wanted to switch the battle cannon for a vanquisher, and maybe not take the extra stuff, it would just be:

Base + VC + HB + HK.

Rather than fiddling with 'well switching the battle cannon on THIS model costs X, but on THAT model costs Y' you just add the base and all the wargear at the end of the process.

Man, that's a rough switch to get my head wrapped around after 4 editions of doing it the other way. Thanks for confirming though.

As for builds... here's what I'm thinking:

At 1K - Brigade (for 12 CP)

HQ: Company Commande x2, Tempestor Prime w/ Rod
Troops: 4 x Infantry Squad, 2 x Scions (5, w/ 2 x Plasma Gun, 1 x Plasma Pistol)
Elite: Ratling Snipers (5), 2 x Commissar (w/ Bolt Pistol), Priest, 2 x Astropath (w/ Las Pistol)
Fast Attack: Rough Riders (5), 2 x Scout Sentinel (w/ Hvy. Flamer, Chainsaw)
Heavy: 2 x Mortar Squad, Manticore w/ Heavy Flamer
Transport: Taurox Prime (w/ Gatling, 2 x Volley Guns)

The strategy is fairly simple I think, the heavies hang back with a couple of squads for wrap + CO & Commissar. The Taurox likely starts there as well. Midfield has a couple of squads + CO + Commissar + Priest + Astropat. Ratlings and Sentinels are up front to distract, redirect, and slow giving their lives to slow advances down. Scions (incl. Tempestor) look for potential enemy backline assassination, wave attack disruptions (to buy more heavy firing time) or where ever needed. Rough Riders outflank looking for a cheap shot or to distract enemy advances.

At 1500 pts, I go up to 13 cp with the addition of a Vanguard detachment and the following units:

HQ: Commissar Yarrick (for rerolling ones on artillery and a last ditch melee fighter should enemies reach the firebase).
Troops: One of the infantry squads gets replaced by another 5 person Scion plasma squad.
Elites: another Astropath, an Eversor Assassin (to test them out), and a Command Squad w/ four Plasma Guns.
Heavy: another Manticore w/ heavy flamer.
Transport: another Taurox Prime.

At 2K I get more of the basic infantry back (6 squads total), another Rough Rider Squad, another Priest, a couple more Eversor Assassins (in case Therion is right - I might as well give it a go and I'm converting some "mean girls" models to do it), another Ratling squad, a Primaris Psyker, and a total of 4 5-person Scion Plasma Squads. The plasma command squad gets replaced by a special weapons flamer squad though. In terms of structure I'll be running a Brigade and a Batalion for a cool 15 cp.

The general tactical approach remains the same as it was at 1K with 1.5K and 2K just with more of the different tools, basically. I reckon I'll have fun playing them and I think they'll be decent.

... I do want to experiment with some crusader squads out front to soak up fire and slow down advances, but that'll be for another list I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

Those look more Tallarn that Tanith

Right. My mistake, confusing the "Ta-" IG regiments...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
So what kind of upgrades, if any, are people thinking about for infantry squads? I'm seriously having trouble deciding how I want to equip them now. Flamers or plasma guns, even plasma pistols and power swords, seem like a good choice, and maybe a missile launcher for versatility? Then again though, those prices quickly add up to the price of the squad itself. There is definitely a case to be made for pure lasguns too. Missile launcher and flamer though seems like a pretty good idea.

Personally I'm starting out with pure lasgun, and concentrating upgrades in their own squads.

If through play I find that I need better range for command I might get voxes, but in general my philosophy is that those squads are there to die in the place of more valuable troops so I aim to keep them cheap.

@ Aesthete

The Taurox would be more useful with 2 Auto-cannons over the Volley guns.

It kinda got drowned and ignored, but I want to pick it up again:
What do you guys think of the Imperial Defense Line?
For 85 points you get this:


For a pretty huge terrain piece with quite some coverage, especially if you use the end pieces to extend the line (it's the long trench piece in the front, except with two more end pieces):


The thing to note is that while infantry units on/in the terrain piece gain +1 Leadership and cover (+1 on their save), all the infantry BEHIND it (from the POV of the model shooting at them) gain the cover bonus too. As you can see on the pic that trench covers a serious part of the board even without toying with the 4 end pieces, so you can probably get cover saves for most of your guardsmen infantry hordes and heavy weapon teams (and particularly important for Scions for that sweet 3+ save, LS buff helps them too), which is big now that intervening terrain doesn't give cover in most cases (the entire unit needs to stand in it). IMO way better than the Aegis line which is only 10 points cheaper and only gives cover to models within 1" behind it (now that emplacement guns were hit with the nerf hammer big time you won't pick up an Aegis for the AA guns anyway).

 iddy00711 wrote:
@ Aesthete

The Taurox would be more useful with 2 Auto-cannons over the Volley guns.

Probably not. Strength isn't as important as it was in the past. S4 wounds up to T7 on a 5+, making the AP2 far more valuable. Also, twice the shots.

Mid strength shooting (s6-7) is the big loser so far in 8th. It's better to have either more shots or more AP, or with the HSVG, both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
It kinda got drowned and ignored, but I want to pick it up again:
What do you guys think of the Imperial Defense Line?

My concern is that enemy infantry will get cover from anything shooting from behind it. You can just put anti-infantry weapons in the trenches, and the anti-big stuff weapons behind, but I can see a lot of time savvy opponents are going to gain cover from your own shooting.

 Polonius wrote:

My concern is that enemy infantry will get cover from anything shooting from behind it. You can just put anti-infantry weapons in the trenches, and the anti-big stuff weapons behind, but I can see a lot of time savvy opponents are going to gain cover from your own shooting.

I think this is a definition issue, if the model is considered to have a front (with the skulls and additional shields) and back facing (with the supplies and ammo boxes), all units on your side would be behind it and all units on the side facing the front would be in front, no matter the perspective of the model.

If it actually gives cover to infantry on both sides then I agree, the fortification would be too expensive for what it provides and too limited in application.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

My concern is that enemy infantry will get cover from anything shooting from behind it. You can just put anti-infantry weapons in the trenches, and the anti-big stuff weapons behind, but I can see a lot of time savvy opponents are going to gain cover from your own shooting.

I think this is a definition issue, if the model is considered to have a front (with the skulls and additional shields) and back facing (with the supplies and ammo boxes), all units on your side would be behind it and all units on the side facing the front would be in front, no matter the perspective of the model.

If it actually gives cover to infantry on both sides then I agree, the fortification would be too expensive for what it provides and too limited in application.

I read it like it goes both ways. "[units] behind it from the point of view of the firing unit receives the benefit of cover" seems pretty universal.

I just really dont like that platoons arent an option for guard anymore, yea conscripts can dish out more shots at 12 inches, but that doesnt exscuse the fact that its not on a 4+ so 5+ to hit and more than likely 5-6+ to wound, why would i be okay with that? And i do like how heavy weapons teams are now heavy support as they should be, but now commissars are mandatory in elites so i cant spam those either. Finally i dont like how fast attack choices are mandatory for a brigade, i had a solid 1500 point army last edition, but now i struggled to find 1000. Also they killed the vendetta, screw that. But tbh im looking to field alot of rough riders because of how cheap they are and "outflank any baddie that wants to sit back and snipe idk about yall but i feel alot less flexible with who i can choose because i know that sime units i just didnt want to field at all.

 gigabite244 wrote:
I just really dont like that platoons arent an option for guard anymore, yea conscripts can dish out more shots at 12 inches, but that doesnt exscuse the fact that its not on a 4+ so 5+ to hit and more than likely 5-6+ to wound, why would i be okay with that? And i do like how heavy weapons teams are now heavy support as they should be, but now commissars are mandatory in elites so i cant spam those either. Finally i dont like how fast attack choices are mandatory for a brigade, i had a solid 1500 point army last edition, but now i struggled to find 1000. Also they killed the vendetta, screw that. But tbh im looking to field alot of rough riders because of how cheap they are and "outflank any baddie that wants to sit back and snipe idk about yall but i feel alot less flexible with who i can choose because i know that sime units i just didnt want to field at all.

You know there is an entire elite detachment right? There is almost ZERO slot restriction now.....