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I was more thinking that they stole all the best stuff from the quartermaster.

Also, I was reading my old Codex the other day. A Ratling had the honour of the first Imperial kill of an Ethereal. Don't forget to rub that in those Tau noses. Or weird face holes. Whatever Xenos filth they have.

First off, +1!

Moving along... What do you gents think of the new Regimental Standards? If I remember correctly, in the new rules they just grant a +1 to the leadership values of surrounding units.

I really liked using them in the previous edition, looked great thematically and provided a great boost to a horde stationed in an Aegis. I'll have to double check the points cost, but I'm not really feeling them for 8th.

 Cothonian wrote:
Moving along... What do you gents think of the new Regimental Standards?

I used to like them too. Unfortunately, they have gone the way of the old Platoon Standard and are useless. Even if they were free, you are giving up a valuable vox/medic/weapon slot for little gain. Which is a shame, as I really liked the visuals they gave. Well, I'll just have to make do with my tank commander banners.

How about lots and lots of flamers?

Where flamers start not to become viable, add in very heavy weaponry.

Who needs to roll to hit?

What is fast enough / cheap enough to make this idea valid, curiously? Hopefully it is IG/AM related?

So Unit1126PLL (I think I got that right) just pointed in the other big IG thread in GD that the Baneblade chassis units are pretty awesome because of their oddly effective assault and overwatch properties.

I've always had a soft spot for the Shadowsword, so this might end up being my excuse to get one (though I'd love to get the old FW Arkurian pattern one) or two.

They're all roughly three times the cost of a decently equipped Russ, but have over twice the wounds and some pretty killy weaponry, and are somehow pretty good in close combat.

Definitely something I glossed over but now seriously considering.

 Blacksails wrote:
So Unit1126PLL (I think I got that right) just pointed in the other big IG thread in GD that the Baneblade chassis units are pretty awesome because of their oddly effective assault and overwatch properties.

Wow, got to love 8th edition, where IG are all about the melee Baneblades...

 Blacksails wrote:
So Unit1126PLL (I think I got that right) just pointed in the other big IG thread in GD that the Baneblade chassis units are pretty awesome because of their oddly effective assault and overwatch properties.

I've always had a soft spot for the Shadowsword, so this might end up being my excuse to get one (though I'd love to get the old FW Arkurian pattern one) or two.

They're all roughly three times the cost of a decently equipped Russ, but have over twice the wounds and some pretty killy weaponry, and are somehow pretty good in close combat.

Definitely something I glossed over but now seriously considering.

I think the Stormlord and Shadowsword both look pretty good. The Stormlord can be taken as one of the cheapest options and has the most versatile main gun. You could pack it with eighteen mortar teams plus a Command squad with your choice of two more weapons to make it the greatest dakka pillbox in the game.

And the Shadowsword has a pretty decent chance to remove an enemy vehicle or monster every turn.

Probs the biggest and one of the few good things coming for 8E IG, Melee and Extreme Dakka Baneblades.

I think people are misconceptualizing the Leman Russ.

Previously, 40K was very offense-loaded. You had all these weapons capable of one-shotting vehicles, critters, and infantry squads. These weapons don't exist anymore, It's more durability now, and ability to do damage over time.

The LR turret weapon is one heavy weapon out of (usually) 4. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with them, not to be the point of the tank itself, and it's not supposed to be vastly superior to them, only somewhat. (Which it generally is -- the BC is superior against armor than a lascannon and superior to an HB against infantry, for instance.)

The Russ is not a giant cannon. It is, in effect, four (usually) heavy-weapons teams that are immune to Morale, are T8, are fully mobile, and have a 3+ armo(u)r save. It should be viewed in that light.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Am I missing something or what is the point of the Deathstrike? It seems really bad for it's cost now (both powerlevel and pointcost).
On average it will once per game deal 5 mortal wounds to it's target, then 1 mortal wound to any unit within 6" (if any), which on it's own isn't that impressive. Then add the fact that it will rarely shoot before turn 4.

As a huge fan of the LR Vanquisher I'm also saddened by the fact that this tank seems inferior to the regular LR BT in pretty much every way, and as a huge fan of melee-oriented blob-guard I'm sad that we can no longer combine plutoons.

Other than that though, I'm a happy general. Can't wait to try out my new and improved Bullgryns and Rough Riders.

I have a hunch that the S8 in the Vanquisher BC is supposed to be T9, since that's what the Genestealer Cult one has and is what would make it superior to a lascannon (see my point above).

Alcibiades wrote:
The LR turret weapon is one heavy weapon out of (usually) 4. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with them, not to be the point of the tank itself, and it's not supposed to be vastly superior to them, only somewhat. (Which it generally is -- the BC is superior against armor than a lascannon and superior to an HB against infantry, for instance.)

This might be ok rules-wise, but it's really stupid fluff-wise. Just look at the size of the main gun relative to the secondary weapons, and tell me that it's reasonable for such a massive weapon to be roughly equivalent in power to its sponson guns.

Technically, fluff-wise the LRBT main gun is 120mm. Which means it actually shouldn't be that huge, that's just GW modeling for you. It's a modern MBT cannon.

 Peregrine wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
The LR turret weapon is one heavy weapon out of (usually) 4. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with them, not to be the point of the tank itself, and it's not supposed to be vastly superior to them, only somewhat. (Which it generally is -- the BC is superior against armor than a lascannon and superior to an HB against infantry, for instance.)

This might be ok rules-wise, but it's really stupid fluff-wise. Just look at the size of the main gun relative to the secondary weapons, and tell me that it's reasonable for such a massive weapon to be roughly equivalent in power to its sponson guns.

OK, but it's a general shift in game design. You have the same change across the board. There aren't any great, powerful weapons that blow things off the table.

It's better than the sponson guns. Just not massively so. So the BC is better than a LC against tanks (but not hugely so) and better than an HB against infantry (but not hugely so).

Say what you will, I still wish the Leman Russ was a bit more killy. Durability is great and all, but there are enough things that specialize at killing armor that its durability just isn't enough in too many cases. And since it can't pull its weight in the damage category, you're basically hoping to apply your tank against units that can't deal with it effectively over the course of several turns while hiding from enemy AT. Which doesn't seem terribly feasible to me. I think it may have some effectiveness while the meta is still in flux and people are still adjusting to the new rules, but I think its survivability will tank (pun was not intended) as soon as people get things sorted out.

 ross-128 wrote:
Technically, fluff-wise the LRBT main gun is 120mm. Which means it actually shouldn't be that huge, that's just GW modeling for you. It's a modern MBT cannon.

Which is still profoundly more powerful than any tank secondary weapon.

No, it's a main Battle Tank.......IN SPACE!!!1

Also, Im gonna miss deleting a Chaos Champion in one shoot.

Razerous wrote:
How about lots and lots of flamers?

Where flamers start not to become viable, add in very heavy weaponry.

Who needs to roll to hit?

What is fast enough / cheap enough to make this idea valid, curiously? Hopefully it is IG/AM related?

Riding on the coat-tails of this, anyone think it might be worth allying in a Sisters of Silence flamer squad?

200 points gets you 10 flamers, 3+sv and 20 s3 WS3+ attacks in melee.

Conga-lining them across the board seems like an excellent way to deter​ those 1st turn mass charges that nids and orks are quickly making infamous. 10d6 flamer overwatch will shut down genestealers and Boyz pretty hard.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

200 points gets you 10 flamers, 3+sv and 20 s3 WS3+ attacks in melee.

Conga-lining them across the board seems like an excellent way to deter​ those 1st turn mass charges that nids and orks are quickly making infamous. 10d6 flamer overwatch will shut down genestealers and Boyz pretty hard.

In overwatch, all the weapons get a shot even if in normal fire they wont reach the charging unit?

 Kaeldran wrote:

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

200 points gets you 10 flamers, 3+sv and 20 s3 WS3+ attacks in melee.

Conga-lining them across the board seems like an excellent way to deter​ those 1st turn mass charges that nids and orks are quickly making infamous. 10d6 flamer overwatch will shut down genestealers and Boyz pretty hard.

In overwatch, all the weapons get a shot even if in normal fire they wont reach the charging unit?

Nope. You need actually be in range to fire overwatch. So if your options are in charging a Baneblade sporting 4 twin-heavyflamers that you eat 8d6 S5 ap-1 hits or try to make 9" charge you'll probably want to try that 9" charge.

Blightstar wrote:

 Kaeldran wrote:

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

200 points gets you 10 flamers, 3+sv and 20 s3 WS3+ attacks in melee.

Conga-lining them across the board seems like an excellent way to deter​ those 1st turn mass charges that nids and orks are quickly making infamous. 10d6 flamer overwatch will shut down genestealers and Boyz pretty hard.

In overwatch, all the weapons get a shot even if in normal fire they wont reach the charging unit?

Nope. You need actually be in range to fire overwatch. So if your options are in charging a Baneblade sporting 4 twin-heavyflamers that you eat 8d6 S5 ap-1 hits or try to make 9" charge you'll probably want to try that 9" charge.

Excellent point you guys raise here. Assault units staying just over 8" from flamer-heavy units before they charge may become quite common.

How many units get something similar to the Eversor Assassin's 3d6 charge rule?

Going back to the Regimental Standard, I just checked its points-cost and it's set as 5 points in the new edition. Extremely cheap... still not very useful.

I might include it purely looks at this point

 Peregrine wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
The LR turret weapon is one heavy weapon out of (usually) 4. It's supposed to be used in conjunction with them, not to be the point of the tank itself, and it's not supposed to be vastly superior to them, only somewhat. (Which it generally is -- the BC is superior against armor than a lascannon and superior to an HB against infantry, for instance.)

This might be ok rules-wise, but it's really stupid fluff-wise. Just look at the size of the main gun relative to the secondary weapons, and tell me that it's reasonable for such a massive weapon to be roughly equivalent in power to its sponson guns.

It's still better than the hammerhead railgun spending 3 editions or more causing a single wound to every T6 MC.

Yep!! I am actually glad it is that cheap so I can include it without gimping myself.

Also for the 8 inch over watch. Remember they only need to get within 1 inch. So its an 8 inch charge which is not too difficult.

When flamers are in units also remember that you measure range from the model so if your flamers are not front and center then it is an even shorter range

 Cothonian wrote:
Going back to the Regimental Standard, I just checked its points-cost and it's set as 5 points in the new edition. Extremely cheap... still not very useful.

I might include it purely looks at this point

Or... look at it the other way: a command squad with flag, medic, and two bullet catchers is 39pts. The standard basically saves one battleshock casualty from every squad within 6", while the medipack brings back a wound (or model!) on a 4+. It's not great, but that's really cheap for a support unit.

I can roll with that.

 Polonius wrote:

 Cothonian wrote:
Going back to the Regimental Standard, I just checked its points-cost and it's set as 5 points in the new edition. Extremely cheap... still not very useful.

I might include it purely looks at this point

Or... look at it the other way: a command squad with flag, medic, and two bullet catchers is 39pts. The standard basically saves one battleshock casualty from every squad within 6", while the medipack brings back a wound (or model!) on a 4+. It's not great, but that's really cheap for a support unit.

That's exactly what I'm going with. I was excited to run all-medic squads (from a fluff point of view rather than effectiveness) until I noticed they were limited to one a squad. Still, might model a few of the vets as stretcher bearers and run a medic only command squad regardless.


It's worth keeping in mind that the CCS does grant your commander some protection that you might otherwise forget. I imagine a few guard players will run Company Commanders without them and have a nasty surprise when the infantry squads screening their character get mowed down or otherwise tied up.

Medic, Vox, and heavy weapon team might not be a bad combo for a command squad. Especially since you can keep your officers from the front lines so they can buff units that will die without risking themselves as easily and still add a little fire power.

 Leth wrote:
Medic, Vox, and heavy weapon team might not be a bad combo for a command squad. Especially since you can keep your officers from the front lines so they can buff units that will die without risking themselves as easily and still add a little fire power.

Make it a mortar and you can hide them and the commander out of LOS. Now that mortars roll to hit, the bs3+ is pretty nice.

Heya yall,
I've been playing a bit of 8e with friends and I wanted to see what yall though of the list I'm running right now

2000 pts, Battleforged
BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
Tempestor Prime w/ command rod(40)
Tempestor Prime w/ command rod(40)
Company Commander w/ boltgun(31)

Troop
Tempestus Scionsx5 w/ 2x plasma and plasma pistol (66)
Tempestus Scionsx5 w/ 2x plasma and plasma pistol (66)
Tempestus Scionsx5 w/ 2x plasma and plasma pistol (66)
Tempestus Scionsx5 w/ 2x plasma and plasma pistol (66)
Conscriptsx40 (120)
Infantry Squad w/ plasma(47)

Elite
Eversor Assasin (70)

Heavy Support
Onager Dunecrawler w/ icarus array (130)
Manticore (133)
Manticore (133)

Ded Trans
Dakka Taurox(98)
Dakka Taurox(98)

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
HQ
Commissar Yarrick(130)

Heavy Support
Heavy Weapons w/3x mortar(27)
Heavy Weapons w/3x mortar(27)
Heavy Weapons w/3x mortar(27)
Heavy Weapons w/ 2x lascanon and 1x mortar (57)

SUPER HEAVY DETACHMENT
Knight Crusader w/ thermal cannon, gatling cannon, and ironstorm rockets (528)

Leth wrote:Medic, Vox, and heavy weapon team might not be a bad combo for a command squad. Especially since you can keep your officers from the front lines so they can buff units that will die without risking themselves as easily and still add a little fire power.

Trickstick wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Medic, Vox, and heavy weapon team might not be a bad combo for a command squad. Especially since you can keep your officers from the front lines so they can buff units that will die without risking themselves as easily and still add a little fire power.

Make it a mortar and you can hide them and the commander out of LOS. Now that mortars roll to hit, the bs3+ is pretty nice.

A good idea if you're going to run a vox for your CC (Astra Militarum? Please, this edition will be Mortar Militarum). But is a vox really worth it?

18" means your Company Commander will probably still have to be moving up if you're advancing up the field with your infantry, and for the price of half a dozen vox-casters you can easily net yourself another Company Commander.

That looks pretty close to what people think the meta is geared toward. Scions/Conscripts as a core.

You don't have much long range anti tank. By that, I mean that I'm not as impressed with the manticore as some people are. I think better AP is going to be more important than better Strength. That might just be me. You might want another commissar to babysit the HWS squads. I dunno if it'd be worth it though.


I haven't played yet, but the first list I'm running (probably next weekend) is going to be:

(Batallion, 1500 pts)

Company Commander
Company Commander
Tempestor Prime
Primaris Psyker

Priest (eviscerator)
Priest (eviscerator)
Commissar (power fist/bolt pistol)
Commissar (power fist/bolt pistol)
Ratlings x 5
Ratlings x 5
Scion Command squad (medipack, 2 x melta)
MoO

Infantry (plasma gun, power sword)
Infantry (plasma gun, power sword)
Infantry (plasma gun, power sword)
Infantry (plasma gun, power sword)
Scions (2 x plasmagun) x 5
Scions (2 x plasmagun) x 5

Hellhound x 3

HWS (3 x Lascannon)
HWS (3 x Lascannon)
HWS (3 x Lascannon)
Basilisk x 2

Leaves me with 25 pts unless I forgot a hidden weapon in there somewhere. I may turn that into a few extra pistol upgrades and power swords.

Hmm. I can't remember if I added the hull weapon onto the Hellounds and basilisks. While I'm at it, I can't remember if I paid for the hotshot lasguns either. This edition is going to be the death of me.

Okay. This is silly. When I get a chance, I'm going to modify my sheet with a column for "Minimum wargear cost" for each unit.