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Does that break battle-forged status?

Not in an imperium keyword list.

Foot guard are fine for long range due to HWSs - a lascannon and two mortars mixes good firepower and reasonable durability for 42pts

I think treble lascannon HWSs are a bit fragile personally, particularly as MSU guard will often be going second

The best antitank imo is a Stormlord loaded up with HWTs. The main gun isn't amazing antitank (good but not like other variants), but you can get 4 Lascannon sponsons and then the dudes inside can shoot out.

But not great advice if you don't want to play with LoWs.

How about putting the Lascannon HWS in a bastion?

 Naix wrote:
With the (apparent) consensus being that outside of Vendettas and the sub-par Vanquishers, there isn't too much in the way of long range anti tank (barring lascannons in infantry squads) has anyone considered allying in space marine predator annihilators?

Seems like it could fit a tank hunter role in most people's forces.

Wait... people don't think there's good anti-tank? Am I wrong in thinking Twin Lascannon Tarantulas are amazing?

Recently took 170 conscripts to a very competitive event in the UK and was hitting the top tables.

Conscript spam is alive and well, although it only works in combination with motor spam and plenty of lascannons/ smite. Having 2-3 Eversors is indispensable in taking out opposing snipers.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Naix wrote:
With the (apparent) consensus being that outside of Vendettas and the sub-par Vanquishers, there isn't too much in the way of long range anti tank (barring lascannons in infantry squads) has anyone considered allying in space marine predator annihilators?

Seems like it could fit a tank hunter role in most people's forces.

Wait... people don't think there's good anti-tank? Am I wrong in thinking Twin Lascannon Tarantulas are amazing?

Amazingly easy to kill. Earthshakers. Grab just the battery from FW. 80 points no crew needed

So, I just got 3x the Get started Tempestus kit as the start of my new guard army. What else should I be looking to add? What supports what I have? Conscripts?

I have scions with plasma for heavy stuff, and taurox's with mass str 4 shooting for mobs. I even have some commissars and tempestor primes. So maybe basilisks, or hellhounds?

What do you think this list needs?

So I've never played guard. Like, at all. But I do love your tanks. They're neat. Is it possible to build a viable tank and tracked vehicle army in 8th? If so, where would you suggest I start for a 500/1000 point army?

Hello fellow servants of the one true emperor. I have a ummm group of friends who wanted to barrow... use.... liberate??? some Astra Militarum equipment, and i was trying to figure out what is your best option for dealing with big tough model and super sonic flier.

Currently, i have a supreme command detachment and it contains

2 Primaris psykers
1 Tempestor prime
1 Millitarum Command squad w/ 4 plasma
and a chimera with 2 heavy flamers.

was wondering if anyone had any ideas for a force within 300pts that is all contained within one detachment that can deal with big heavy stuff and super sonic fliers.

has anyone done the mathammer to compare the 3 most useful russ variants i.e. conquorer, demolisher and punisher

I have seen tables comparing variants but they dont include the conquorer and we know from those tables that the kings are punisher and demolisher

so yeah it would be good to see conquorer, demolisher, punisher table if anyone was willing to mathammer it out

Why would you ever take a Punisher when HWTs and Wyverns exist?

Since 8E dropped I've been playing my guard. Spearhead with lots of artillery and russes. My problem was that I didn't have enough mech to get to 2k so I back filled with a shodowsword in one game and two knights in another game. In both cases I went second and my 500 points of LOW was dead turn 1 or 2. Someone else in my club is running the list I'm trying to build up to more or less (he has all vehicles except for 2 units of infantry where as I want to run a detachment of scion plasma command squads with primes).

I'd like to start looking at running foot lists too but don't have experience building those types of lists (what things do you sprinkle in to make them work). Anyone have a 8E foot list they'd like to share?

I'm looking for help with something. See, I've been playing infantry-guard recently and while it's been both fun and effective, moving so many models can be rather a pain at times.

Anyway, I'd like to still play infantry-IG, but with a focus on more 'elite' units (probably Scions).

I'm thinking of going MSU and having lots of 5-man Scion squads with Plasma Guns and Plasma Pistols (perhaps with an occasional Flamer or Volley Gun to break up the monotony a little). I'll also have a few Plasma Command Squads (since I'll be including a few Tempestor Primes to hand out orders).

Anyway, this gives me quite a lot of short-mid range shooting as well as a few squads that can drop near backfield targets. However, I'm currently really lacking in long-range weapons.

Do you think that I need long-range weapons, or should I just advance into plasma range ASAP and rely on my deep-striking MT Command Squads for pseudo-long-rang?

If you think I need long-range weapons, what do you think would work best?
- Veteran squads with HWTs?
- ISs with HWTs?
- HWSs?
- Sentinels with Lascannons and Hunter Killer missiles?
- Leman Russ of some variety?

Unfortunately, I don't have any artillery at the moment. The only vehicles I own are:
- 2 Leman Russ
- 5 Chimera
- 4 Sentinels

So, anyway, what do you thin?

Also, any other advice for running this sort of army?

Requizen wrote:
Why would you ever take a Punisher when Taurox Primes and Wyverns exist?

Fixed it for you

 luke1705 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Why would you ever take a Punisher when Taurox Primes and Wyverns exist?

Fixed it for you

Gatlings are nice but mass Heavy Bolter HWTs blow pretty much everything out of the water in terms of point effectiveness. Not a terribly mobile or exciting army, mind you, but for pure number and quality of shots you can do, they're the bomb dot com.

 vipoid wrote:

Anyway, this gives me quite a lot of short-mid range shooting as well as a few squads that can drop near backfield targets. However, I'm currently really lacking in long-range weapons.

Do you think that I need long-range weapons, or should I just advance into plasma range ASAP and rely on my deep-striking MT Command Squads for pseudo-long-rang?

If you think I need long-range weapons, what do you think would work best?

Depends what you want them to do. For killing big stuff, Manticore batteries are great. They're the FW version of the IG tank and they become an 80 point artillery piece (plus how much it costs for the missiles themselves, but it's really not much)

For killing medium to big stuff but firing all game, the same goes for Earthshaker batteries. They're the artillery version of the basilisk (literally just the top half of the tank ).

For killing smaller stuff you can use:
Taurox Primes (great for bringing your squads up too - I think they're so great that I use them and I don't even have guys for them to transport!)
Wyverns
HWTs
Quad Heavy Mortar Batteries (kind of like a Wyvern but str 5 on the gun and no shred. A FW artillery piece)

Well, among those things you listed, I see one that I actually have models for.

Requizen wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Why would you ever take a Punisher when Taurox Primes and Wyverns exist?

Fixed it for you

Gatlings are nice but mass Heavy Bolter HWTs blow pretty much everything out of the water in terms of point effectiveness. Not a terribly mobile or exciting army, mind you, but for pure number and quality of shots you can do, they're the bomb dot com.

Perhaps but you lack durability and you can only get 3 per squad, right? That's 9 shots per FOC slot. The prime gives me 31 if I do the heavy stubber. So if I take 3 Taurox primes, I'm taking 31 HWT models to equal it. To be fair to the HWTs, they're str 5 and rend -1, but they're also 72 points more than the Prime and have a worse WS. If the Taurox can stand still, they wound an identical amount vs t4, which should be the place where the HWTs shine. While the HWT wounds are at rend -1 (the prime does have 8 shots at rend -2) I don't think that's worth an extra 72 points. Moreover, you're giving up 3x as many kill points, and its very easy to kill HWTs, especially since you're probably not going first with that many units (even under the ITC rules). The Taurox primes are harder to kill and keep shooting as they die. Dead HWTs fire no bullets.

It's actually unfair to the rest of the army how good a Taurox Prime is as a gunboat vs small stuff

I played a game with one of my group's GK players on Monday.

List:

HWS went into the stormlord, which parked on one of four objectives. All my other vehicles went behind/around it, with the hellhounds around the outer edges of the board. Infantry squads lined the deployment zone's edge to push his deep striking out as far as I could. He deep struck half of his SS with the banner guy and his grandmaster, and the infantry soaked the shooting and smite wounds. He failed to get any charges except for the banner guy, and I overwatched unseasonably well, taking out 2 strikes.

He got the infantry squads down to only about 2-4 people each, but then I returned fire with everything. Deep struck the scions, and the melta guys bagged the rifleman, while the plasma guys wiped out one of the SS. Hellhounds put some wounds on a few things, but nothing amazing because I can't roll above a 2 on their number of attacks. Vulcan mega bolter vaporizes the terminators, and enough people ganged up on the banner guy that he went away as well. Got the strikes back far enough that I could put some hurt on the grandmaster, and the lascannons took care of him.

Next turn he deep struck the other three SS in. I weather the storm from that pretty well, getting a few wounds on my vehicles and losing the infantry down to a sarge in one squad, and the sarge and a plasma guy in the other squad. He also takes out 4 of the 5 scions of one of those squads. I return fire, taking out most of the strikes again. I'm also hurting razorbacks at this point, for lack of other targets. I think he got the inquisitor out to smite with too.

(It's worth mentioning here that he's held his DK back because he's unhappy with the situation for his charge, and has been hoping to cause more of a dent so he can deep strike it in deeper. Though he's got the infantry removed, he's still not really closer to me, and he has no infantry to do much with.)

Finally he brings the DK in. Between it and the inquisitor, he takes out a hellhound and basically kills the remaining scions. He's moved up razorbacks and they and the acolytes put some wounds on another hellhound and my remaining characters. I think I was down to the company commander and the tempestor prime left as far as non-vehicle units go. Vehicles he hadn't been able to put much of a dent into.

The tempestor sees the writing on the wall and starts running the opposite direction. He's the warlord too, so he really doesn't want his head popped. By now it's bottom of turn 4, and he's spending most of his time trying to deny me line of sight with the 75% of my army still remaining. The basilisks don't care, and they manage to remove the last few razorbacks and acolyte squads over the next two turns, with the stormlord getting a lucky snipe on the inquisitor for want of his leg being exposed from behind the cover he was trying to take.

I table him by the end of turn 5, and I apologize for how one-sided that was, and comment about how we've only ever had maybe some 3-4 games it seems that have been genuinely evenly matched and don't just swing hard immediately one way or the other right out of the gate. He agrees and spends the next hour or so talking about how awesome Infinity is to me. I'm uncertain still at this point, but willing to consider giving it a shot.

Takeaways:
- Melta is better than I thought it would be, and despite netlisting, still has a purpose in 8th, though it's hardly the king of the table anymore that it once was.
- It's an old mantra, but if you're deep striking, deep strike everything at once.
- Also an old mantra, but "one is none, two is one, three is spam." He only had one DK and one dreadnought. I feel like if he'd brought more of that, rather than relying on melee for antitank, he'd have been better off.
- It's a deadlier edition, but that doesn't mean that you don't have to focus fire. I made sure I had a backup plan for everything I was shooting at, and I stuck to it as much as possible. That's kinda the power of guard I think.
- Basilisks are still amazing. Maybe we play with more LOS blocking terrain, but I was really satisfied with how well they didn't care about the hidden acolytes. As much as I hate to say it, I'm interested in trying out some manticores.
- I'm honestly still not any more or less sold on Scions than I was beforehand. They're not that much different than 5th ed stormtroopers at this point, and I continue to use them as such. I'm making more though, because they are cheap and fun to paint.
- Stormlord as a HWS bunker might be a little unfair.

Additional thought: The discrepancy between points and power is real. I ran the numbers on my last game against Eldar, and at 75 power, I was about 1400 points. My opponent was just over 1500, iirc. That's the difference of another hellhound. And I did the thing where I stuck upgrades on things I wouldn't have taken either, and took those into account with my point calculation. I feel like power is off, at least for guard. I take hull heavy bolters on stuff, and didn't take pintle mounts or hunterr killers, so maybe I was losing a power or two per tank there.

 vipoid wrote:
Well, among those things you listed, I see one that I actually have models for.

If you don't have the FW stuff, most of it is just the upper half of the GW model. Not too hard to get a hold of, or hopefully people magnetized them when they assembled the tank


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:

Stormlord as a HWS bunker might be a little unfair.

It's pretty good yeah. And you didn't even go all out on that strat.

Question:

Do I still need to take a squad of Scions in order to get a Taurox Prime as dedicated transport?

Doctoralex wrote:

Question:

Do I still need to take a squad of Scions in order to get a Taurox Prime as dedicated transport?

No. You may take literally any one Imperial Unit (that is not itself a Dedicated Transport) and then take one Taurox Prime.

As a question, guys, what would you suggest for a Catachan-themed army?

Are there any weapons/units that would help cement that theme?

Likewise, are there any weapons/units I should avoid for them?

CaptainO wrote:

If you're trying to fill out a Brigade 6 x 10 man Infantry squads are the cheaper way to go. You'd end up with less guys. (60 rather than 120) and In points 6 x 40 rather than 6 x 50 (important if youre trying to fill out the brigade while keeping pts down) but as you said separate squads with separate lines would allow counter attacks. With the new consolidate rules I'd be afraid that a large blob would allow the enemy to consolidate into a near by unit.

I get that with Straken, a priest and a commisar your would give your conscritps plus two attacks and an effective leadership of 8 but I feel the WS of 4+ and BS of 4+ of the infantry would mean they'd do more damage.

Also I don't feel like buying and painting 120 models...

Does anyone have any experience laying out AM gunlines so as to prevent the enemy from consolidating into the next line following the fight phase. Will a 4" gap between each straight line of infantry guarantee the line behind will get to shoot (and then charge) the next turn?

Thanks for the feedback. At this point I've settled on 2x30 cons and 4 infantry squads with various loadouts. I feel like it's a good compromise - an hundred guys to bubble wrap tanks, but more accurate and more special/hvy weapons than all conscripts

 vipoid wrote:
As a question, guys, what would you suggest for a Catachan-themed army?

Are there any weapons/units that would help cement that theme?

Likewise, are there any weapons/units I should avoid for them?

Go watch rambo and what he does

then do that x40 for the rest of the army

but really they have access to most things. mostly dudes. often pictured with sentinels.

Themey on a jungle table would be flamers. hellhounds probably and maybe basillisks clearing landing zones. just do vietnam stuff and you probably cant go wrong.

If you care about fluff, I'd bring a couple special weapons squads so you can throw some demo charges. I had the Catachan supplement from way back in 3rd edition and I'm pretty sure that's where demo charges and man portable heavy flamers entered the game.

Other than that, just more flame throwers, mortars, artillery, sentinels, and probably a Valkyrie. I could see a place for Tauroxes in their Army as well. Hell, toss in some Ratlings and Ogryns as they seem fitting. Probably take it easy on Commissars, Catachans aren't very fond of them, haha.

For my Catachans ill go lot of 5-man scions for the Guerilla-war feeling.

A Rambo-Scratchbuild Eversor fits perfect.

 vipoid wrote:
As a question, guys, what would you suggest for a Catachan-themed army?

Are there any weapons/units that would help cement that theme?

Likewise, are there any weapons/units I should avoid for them?

Lots of Catachan infantry models with some ghillie suits
Shotguns
Knifes
Sergeant Harker
HWT's with heavy flora

Catchans will have fewer vehicles than most regiments, simply because of the environments they are specialized in. Its not easy to navigate vehicles through dense heavy jungle. Which is why they bring Rambo instead.

Is Aeronautica Imperialis a regiment?