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 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, true, if you want 2-3 elite picks a patrol won't cut it. So it would either be a vanguard with only one conscript squad (in the one troops slot), or three to four 20-30 man squads to unlock a battallion (which will require two officers anyway due to batallion minimums).

Or they can be separate detachments, but then you'll still have some random officer supervising the support tanks' vanguard detachment. So I think it would be better to use those two officers to get a batallion, and put them both to work commanding some infantry in addition to unlocking those tank slots.

My thoughts as well. One of the HQs will be a primaris psyker to give my Warlord tank the 2+ save. Infantry squads can work but I am worried about their speed approaching the objectives.

I suppose if you wanted to focus mainly on the tanks you could just run a vanguard with the primaris, support tanks, and techpriest.

I just figure it's nice to have a good number of lasguns around to help sweep up things that heavy bolters would overkill. Though that's partly because I play infantry-heavy in general, so I'm used to having a lot of lasguns to throw at problems.

 ross-128 wrote:
I suppose if you wanted to focus mainly on the tanks you could just run a vanguard with the primaris, support tanks, and techpriest.

I just figure it's nice to have a good number of lasguns around to help sweep up things that heavy bolters would overkill. Though that's partly because I play infantry-heavy in general, so I'm used to having a lot of lasguns to throw at problems.

Heavy bolters really aren't 'overkill' per say, it just depends on your targeting. The problem with Stormhammers is I only take 4 heavy bolters anyways, while if I brought my Stormswords, one has 3 twin heavy bolters by itself. However, the twin battlecannon the stormhammer gets I think makes up the firepower difference, and is better at engaging a variety of threat profiles.

That said, the Stormhammer's main gun already has re-rolls, so the Trojan is only useful for the lascannons (x4), twin battle cannon, and 4 heavy bolters.

ThePorcupine wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
The problem is that they are heavy, so take a -1 to hit on the drop. They also don't get much from orders, although there is some synergy with FRF!SRF!.

Do deep strikers count as having moved? What about disembarkers ?

And what synergy? I thought frfsrf didn't effect volley guns.

And plasma is ridiculously expensive on eBay. I've been checking for weeks.

Yeah, I had the same problem finding plasma guns for my scion command squads. Not that I would ever consider it but smooth-on makes a great mold and resin kit for making small parts

Hmm, I'm guessing from that description that you only put HBs on one sponson (because you get two on the hull and two per sponson), and the rest are heavy flamers.

In which case yeah, for that particular configuration the trojan's value is dubious without the main gun. There's an argument for the four lascannons and twin battlecannon, but it won't be getting as much mileage as the salamander.

Bit of a toss-up whether you want to take it just to buff the secondaries, or if you'd rather use its points on conscripts/more conscripts. Or a second salamander so you can +1 both superheavies at the same time.

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, I'm guessing from that description that you only put HBs on one sponson (because you get two on the hull and two per sponson), and the rest are heavy flamers.

In which case yeah, for that particular configuration the trojan's value is dubious without the main gun. There's an argument for the four lascannons and twin battlecannon, but it won't be getting as much mileage as the salamander.

Bit of a toss-up whether you want to take it just to buff the secondaries, or if you'd rather use its points on conscripts/more conscripts. Or a second salamander so you can +1 both superheavies at the same time.

Well, the configuration I have is the two front sponson weapons are lascannons, then each other side sponson gun is a heavy bolter.

Since there are three gunports on each side (for 6 weapons) this gives you 4 heavy bolters. The hull weapon on a Stormhammer is a lascannon, and the co-axial for the main gun is a lascannon as well (I upgrade it). So each of my stormhammers has 4 lascannons, 4 heavy bolters, the twin battlecannon, and the main gun. The main gun re-rolls to hit if the co-axial lascannon fires.

I could mix companies of course but that just sounds unfluffy!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

CakesPicasso wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


My issue with conscripts is 2-fold: I've found their slow speed to be of little utility; when they're not blocking the movement of my vehicles they're straining their little legs to keep up, not to mention put effective fire downrange.

Keep in mind that with orders Conscripts can move 12+2d6" per turn. Their speed will only be an issue if you need them to fire as well. And even then you can move+advance and still fire at their normal rate.

Ah, true, though I would have to run a Vanguard, and also figure out how to build conscript models in a week, lol. I have been thinking of bringing drop scions, to fill out a battalion and drop on objectives (since troops will have objective secured).

I personally think scions will have the most synergy with your superheavies over any other troops. A barebones battalion of them is minimum 230 points, which gives you a lot of points for special weapons/additional bodies. Or the economy route, which is two barebones battalions for 460 pts. Depends on whether 3additional CPs or the BS 3+ special weapons are worth more to you.

Either way, it allows you to drop em in to steal objectives, throw a tactical wrench in their plans or harass dug-in enemy units.

I might have to re-read the rules, but I'm pretty sure each sponson gets a lascannon AND a twin heavy bolter, not "or".

As in, if you take a baneblade sponson, it ALWAYS has a lascannon. The choice you get to make is, in addition to the lascannon, do you take twin heavy bolters or twin heavy flamers?

 ross-128 wrote:
I might have to re-read the rules, but I'm pretty sure each sponson gets a lascannon AND a twin heavy bolter, not "or".

As in, if you take a baneblade sponson, it ALWAYS has a lascannon. The choice you get to make is, in addition to the lascannon, do you take twin heavy bolters or twin heavy flamers?

The stormhammer is a different tank than most other baneblade variants:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Solar-Auxilia-Stormhammer

In the picture the tank has multilasers in the sponsons and co-ax, but every multilaser may be replaced with a heavy bolter, heavy flamer, or lascannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CplPunishment wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

CakesPicasso wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


My issue with conscripts is 2-fold: I've found their slow speed to be of little utility; when they're not blocking the movement of my vehicles they're straining their little legs to keep up, not to mention put effective fire downrange.

Keep in mind that with orders Conscripts can move 12+2d6" per turn. Their speed will only be an issue if you need them to fire as well. And even then you can move+advance and still fire at their normal rate.

Ah, true, though I would have to run a Vanguard, and also figure out how to build conscript models in a week, lol. I have been thinking of bringing drop scions, to fill out a battalion and drop on objectives (since troops will have objective secured).

I personally think scions will have the most synergy with your superheavies over any other troops. A barebones battalion of them is minimum 230 points, which gives you a lot of points for special weapons/additional bodies. Or the economy route, which is two barebones battalions for 460 pts. Depends on whether 3additional CPs or the BS 3+ special weapons are worth more to you.

Either way, it allows you to drop em in to steal objectives, throw a tactical wrench in their plans or harass dug-in enemy units.

This co-incides more with what I was thinking, though with the Trojan and the Salamander we're pushing the limit as far as points go... the three tanks are 1506 points.

Hmm, you may not really be able to afford anything else then. Between the tanks and the psyker you'll only have about 200 points left. So you can get about 20 scions with no officer, 10 scions with an officer, or around 50 conscripts with an officer and a commissar.

Also, yep, that sure is one special snowflake of a tank

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, you may not really be able to afford anything else then. Between the tanks and the psyker you'll only have about 200 points left. So you can get about 20 scions with no officer, 10 scions with an officer, or around 50 conscripts with an officer and a commissar.

Also, yep, that sure is one special snowflake of a tank

Yes, that's the thing. I would like to run a battalion, so I was thinking ~240 pts for the primaris and support armour, and then either: techpriests or scions (they're about the same price; IIRC the tech-priest is actually more) for the last 250 or so. That's really the dilemma: Do I throw more money behind supporting the heavy tanks, or do I go for something actually useful to playing the mission?

IIRC techpriests will run you 52 points each once you factor in the servo arm. Or 54, I don't remember exactly. Roughly the same ballpark as a 5-man scion squad.

A techpriest can manage around 10 wounds repaired over the course of a game if they don't die and they can always reach a repair target. Though if your tanks get into melee, it might be hard for the techpriest to repair them without getting pulled in as well. Also keep in mind two can't repair the same target, so if your opponent focuses fire they can nullify all but one by giving them nothing to do.

That said, 10 wounds on a 26 wound 500 point model is a pretty strong argument. Even if that gets spread across two models because one of them died.

One thing that might also be worth considering is naked scion squads with an officer. The new AP system makes hot shot lasguns surprisingly effective against both GEQ and MEQ with FRFSRF, the two things you'll probably use them on since your tanks can paste anything tougher. Main downside is how they deep strike just barely out of double tap range.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, true, if you want 2-3 elite picks a patrol won't cut it. So it would either be a vanguard with only one conscript squad (in the one troops slot), or three to four 20-30 man squads to unlock a battallion (which will require two officers anyway due to batallion minimums).

Or they can be separate detachments, but then you'll still have some random officer supervising the support tanks' vanguard detachment. So I think it would be better to use those two officers to get a batallion, and put them both to work commanding some infantry in addition to unlocking those tank slots.

My thoughts as well. One of the HQs will be a primaris psyker to give my Warlord tank the 2+ save. Infantry squads can work but I am worried about their speed approaching the objectives.

Question: If you are mainly taking the Primaris for the "Psychic Barrier" power (which is 40pts base with mandatory wargear), why not take 3 Astropaths with laspistols for 45pts total to cast psychic barrier on EVERY tank? With the Primaris you are paying more points for a better statline you don't need, and a second psychic power that will be of little use. Now consider your Astropath granting the Astral Divination power to a Superheavy and we have the cherry on top! It is simply too cheap not to consider...

A good source of plasma guns is plasma pistols. Cut the back off of one and the front off another and attach them together. 2 plasma pistols can be had for far less than a single plasma gun. I'm not converting anything until the codex comes out though.

 ross-128 wrote:
IIRC techpriests will run you 52 points each once you factor in the servo arm. Or 54, I don't remember exactly. Roughly the same ballpark as a 5-man scion squad.

A techpriest can manage around 10 wounds repaired over the course of a game if they don't die and they can always reach a repair target. Though if your tanks get into melee, it might be hard for the techpriest to repair them without getting pulled in as well. Also keep in mind two can't repair the same target, so if your opponent focuses fire they can nullify all but one by giving them nothing to do.

That said, 10 wounds on a 26 wound 500 point model is a pretty strong argument. Even if that gets spread across two models because one of them died.

One thing that might also be worth considering is naked scion squads with an officer. The new AP system makes hot shot lasguns surprisingly effective against both GEQ and MEQ with FRFSRF, the two things you'll probably use them on since your tanks can paste anything tougher. Main downside is how they deep strike just barely out of double tap range.

I've used the techpriest with my shadowsword/variants in my first few games. Repairing those wounds was nice, but here is what I foresee happening with 3 superheavys: unless you shell out 156 pts for each one to have a personal repair man (and you don't have many points left to play around with), a smart opponent will target the tanks away from the techpriest first or will focus so much AT into one tank each turn that d3 extra wounds simply won't be enough. If they are prepared to face superheavies in a 2000 pt game, the techpriests will not make much of a difference. If they aren't prepared, the techpriests will make them cry. If they have a balanced list, it could make a difference. I think overall they fit well and won't be a bad investment, but the question comes down to: is there something better?

I like the idea of barebones scions. they are vastly underrated. Besides, anything plasma can do, his superheavies can do from a distance without overheating!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, you may not really be able to afford anything else then. Between the tanks and the psyker you'll only have about 200 points left. So you can get about 20 scions with no officer, 10 scions with an officer, or around 50 conscripts with an officer and a commissar.

Also, yep, that sure is one special snowflake of a tank

Yes, that's the thing. I would like to run a battalion, so I was thinking ~240 pts for the primaris and support armour, and then either: techpriests or scions (they're about the same price; IIRC the tech-priest is actually more) for the last 250 or so. That's really the dilemma: Do I throw more money behind supporting the heavy tanks, or do I go for something actually useful to playing the mission?

Battalion: 287pts
Tempestor Prime Chainsword, Command Rod 40
Tempestor Prime Chainsword, Command Rod 40

Scions (x5) plasma pistol, Chainsword, hotshots (x4) 54
Scions (x5) plasma pistol, Chainsword, hotshots (x4) 54
Scions (x5) plasma pistol, Chainsword, hotshots (x4) 54

Astropath: laspistol, psychic barrier 15
Astropath: laspistol, psychic barrier 15
Astropath: laspistol, psychic barrier 15

No repairs, but that plus 1 to your save on EVERY superheavy might prevent quite a few wounds to begin with...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just realized that a battleforged battalion and superheavy detachments will net a respectable 9CP! I've seen more, but that is pretty dang good.

 Saber wrote:


I've had a fair amount of success. I usually win, and when I lose it's usually because of tactical mistakes and not because of the army. The only thing I've struggled against consistently is flyer-spam, due to the lack of accurate weapons.

The Basilisks are the core of the army - they churn out at least ten shots a turn and typically smash one target to pieces. The Leman Russes assist the Basilisks, and the infantry and Chimeras get in the way the enemy's attack. It's rare that the enemy is able to kill a Basilisk, much less two or three, as my Russes absorb more fire and my Chimeras usually offer themselves as more immediate targets. I've never come close to being tabled and I always have at least half a dozen vehicles on the board at the end, but my infantry usually suffer horribly and get annihilated as soon as they deploy from their transports. The main challenge is to avoid playing too passively, surrendering board position and objectives to the enemy. The Basilisks are never going to capture anything and the Leman Russes rarely get past midfield so projecting power can be difficult if you don't plan your moves out ahead of time.

I am especially wondering if your lists need a little bit more infantry, since you say they get annihilated so easily.

Regarding flyers: When you expect them maybe switch out a Leman Russ or a Basilisk for a Hydra. 8 Autocanon shots hitting on 3s against flyers is pretty good. (it hits everything with the <Fly> keyword on 3s, so also Jump Pack Infantry, Elder Grav Tanks etc.)

The reason I can't do +1 to all 3 vehicles is the Matched Play rules, which allow you to cast only one of any given psychic power except smite. Otherwise, definitely.

As for the techpriests vs scions....

yeah that's a very hard choice. I have an Atlas I could bring, which stacks with the tech-priests repairs (unlike the priests themselves) but I'm just not sure anymore...

Barebones scions vs techpriests is never a concern I'd think I'd've had.

Actually, you can buy plasmaguns from GW. One blister has five of them.

Yeah I actually bought one of those but you still need to come up with the arms...

 necron99 wrote:
Yeah I actually bought one of those but you still need to come up with the arms...

Grenade launcher and flamer arms from the scion kit.

I guess I can paint the Salamander and Trojan while I'm trying to figure this out...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The reason I can't do +1 to all 3 vehicles is the Matched Play rules, which allow you to cast only one of any given psychic power except smite. Otherwise, definitely.

As for the techpriests vs scions....

yeah that's a very hard choice. I have an Atlas I could bring, which stacks with the tech-priests repairs (unlike the priests themselves) but I'm just not sure anymore...

Barebones scions vs techpriests is never a concern I'd think I'd've had.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you need 2 more command points from the Battalion, or the ability to repair.

A Battleforged Vanguard and Superheavy detachment nets 7CP. Not horrible, plus it gives you 6 Elites slots.

That being said, you CAN compromise: 2 Tempestor Primes, 3 barebones scions, an astropath with laspistol and a techpriest are priced at 297pts. That's a brigade with a little bit of everything. That will at least get you a +1 save, Astral Divination and +d3 wounds on your warlord tank, if nothing else.

 CplPunishment wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The reason I can't do +1 to all 3 vehicles is the Matched Play rules, which allow you to cast only one of any given psychic power except smite. Otherwise, definitely.

As for the techpriests vs scions....

yeah that's a very hard choice. I have an Atlas I could bring, which stacks with the tech-priests repairs (unlike the priests themselves) but I'm just not sure anymore...

Barebones scions vs techpriests is never a concern I'd think I'd've had.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you need 2 more command points from the Battalion, or the ability to repair.

A Battleforged Vanguard and Superheavy detachment nets 7CP. Not horrible, plus it gives you 6 Elites slots.

That being said, you CAN compromise: 2 Tempestor Primes, 3 barebones scions, an astropath with laspistol and a techpriest are priced at 297pts. That's a brigade with a little bit of everything. That will at least get you a +1 save, Astral Divination and +d3 wounds on your warlord tank, if nothing else.

I think a Primaris Psyker is the same or cheaper than one of the tempestor primes, saving me 15 points on the astropath for wargear. But otherwise that sounds like a plan.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 CplPunishment wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The reason I can't do +1 to all 3 vehicles is the Matched Play rules, which allow you to cast only one of any given psychic power except smite. Otherwise, definitely.

As for the techpriests vs scions....

yeah that's a very hard choice. I have an Atlas I could bring, which stacks with the tech-priests repairs (unlike the priests themselves) but I'm just not sure anymore...

Barebones scions vs techpriests is never a concern I'd think I'd've had.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you need 2 more command points from the Battalion, or the ability to repair.

A Battleforged Vanguard and Superheavy detachment nets 7CP. Not horrible, plus it gives you 6 Elites slots.

That being said, you CAN compromise: 2 Tempestor Primes, 3 barebones scions, an astropath with laspistol and a techpriest are priced at 297pts. That's a brigade with a little bit of everything. That will at least get you a +1 save, Astral Divination and +d3 wounds on your warlord tank, if nothing else.

I think a Primaris Psyker is the same or cheaper than one of the tempestor primes, saving me 15 points on the astropath for wargear. But otherwise that sounds like a plan.

Yeah, that's a good point. You really don't NEED two Tempestor Primes anyhow. I prefer the Astropath personally, but in your case I think the Primaris might just be the right call.

 necron99 wrote:
Yeah I actually bought one of those but you still need to come up with the arms...

There's plenty of arms in any given IG-sprue.

Just take the parts for a normal Guardsman (or Scion) and replace the lasgun/grenade launcher/whatever with a plasma gun. That's what I did.

Here's a Brigade I'm thinking of running:

Tempestor Prime (Rod)
Tempestor Prime (Rod)
Tempestor Prime (Rod)

Scion Command Squad - Meltas
Scion Command Squad - Plasmas
Scion Command Squad - Plasmas

Scions x5 - Plasma x2
Scions x5 - Melta x2
Scions x5 - Flamer x2
Scions x5 - Volley Gun x2
Scions x5 - Volley Gun x2
Scions x5 - Volley Gun x2

Hellhound - Heavy Flamer
Hellhound - Heavy Flamer
Scout Sentinel - Autocannon

Basilisk x3
Manticore
Manticore
Manticore

Taurox Prime - Missiles, Autocannons
Taurox Prime - Missiles, Autocannons

Being Scion and Vehicle focused, it's fairly light on bodies for Guard, but I think there's still plenty to control/contest objectives and the firepower output is pretty insane. Lots of CP to get rerolls with and make sure the Scions don't run away.

C&C appreciated!

 Saber wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

 Saber wrote:
I've been running a mechanized list with my Steel Legion. It looks roughly like this:

2 Officers
3 Infantry Squads
1 Command Squad with special weapons
1 Master of Ordinance
1 Tank Commander in a standard Leman Russ
2 Leman Russ (standard again)
3 Basilisks
1 Hellhound
3 Chimera with Autocannon, Heavy Bolter
1 Chimera with two Heavy flamers

I really like the concept behind your army. How did your games go so far?
I can imagine that the enemy AT will be really struggling to prioritise the right targets.

I've had a fair amount of success. I usually win, and when I lose it's usually because of tactical mistakes and not because of the army. The only thing I've struggled against consistently is flyer-spam, due to the lack of accurate weapons.

The Basilisks are the core of the army - they churn out at least ten shots a turn and typically smash one target to pieces. The Leman Russes assist the Basilisks, and the infantry and Chimeras get in the way the enemy's attack. It's rare that the enemy is able to kill a Basilisk, much less two or three, as my Russes absorb more fire and my Chimeras usually offer themselves as more immediate targets. I've never come close to being tabled and I always have at least half a dozen vehicles on the board at the end, but my infantry usually suffer horribly and get annihilated as soon as they deploy from their transports. The main challenge is to avoid playing too passively, surrendering board position and objectives to the enemy. The Basilisks are never going to capture anything and the Leman Russes rarely get past midfield so projecting power can be difficult if you don't plan your moves out ahead of time.

Can I ask how you outfit your Russes? Sponsons?

If youre using normal LR's Id go with heavy flamers.

commander or pask probably melta's or heavy bolters.

K so I tweaked the list today.

Totally dropped an enginseer, but that gave me the points to buy 5 of my possible 6 plasma guns and then put heavy flamers on one of my Stormhammers (instead of the 4 heavy bolters) in case I run into a bunch of assassins or something.

+1 for the flamers. Saved my ass during a battle vs harliquins