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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
K so I tweaked the list today.

Totally dropped an enginseer, but that gave me the points to buy 5 of my possible 6 plasma guns and then put heavy flamers on one of my Stormhammers (instead of the 4 heavy bolters) in case I run into a bunch of assassins or something.

Give us an update on how they work out after playtesting!

 CplPunishment wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
K so I tweaked the list today.

Totally dropped an enginseer, but that gave me the points to buy 5 of my possible 6 plasma guns and then put heavy flamers on one of my Stormhammers (instead of the 4 heavy bolters) in case I run into a bunch of assassins or something.

Give us an update on how they work out after playtesting!

I will do after this weekend!

@ lash92 - Good advice all around.

Jkbulldogg wrote:


Can I ask how you outfit your Russes? Sponsons?

It varies from game to game. The one constant is that I always take sponsons, and I usually take hull lascannon because my army needs more high-powered, long-range shots. Different sponsons are for different roles:

Heavy bolters are cheap and always useful;

Plasma cannon are for the Russ that is sitting by the Commander and getting ordered to reroll 1s;

Multi meltas are for the Commander, or maybe a standard Russ if I have points to spare;

Heavy flamers are for a Russ that will be off on its own, protecting the flank from 'deep strikers' or other surprise attacks. I find I don't need them to attack the enemy because I have plenty of flamers on my Chimeras, Infantry, and Hellhounds, but if your army doesn't have that then a Punisher with 3 Heavy Flamers is a great buy.

My 'default' set up is a Command Russ with a Lascannon and Multi melta, one Russ with a Lascannon and Plasma cannon, and one with a Lascannon and Heavy Bolters.

Has anyone tried a air cav style list in 8th any tips at all?

Should be pretty strong as Flyers are solid, but keep in mind that they can't control objectives and if you over spend on them then you're a lot easier to table.

The valk is overpriced and inaccurate on the move. That said, it is quite literally a flying tank!

Oldman Lee wrote:
Has anyone tried a air cav style list in 8th any tips at all?

Well, flyers are quite good. However, Guard does not have a very good one (I dont count FW rules, only basic index, because FW units are often off the charts...too bad or too good). Valkyrie is a transport, not a gunboat. It will never have a good firepower for its points, especially with that 5+ BS after moving (without being damaged). It will move most of the time, since its a transport and you want it to act as a flyer, not a as an immobile fire platform.

Competitively speaking, its not good for its points. Semi-competitive or funny games - its great! You can transport your elite units like command squads or veterans or even Ogryns for melee. You can use those units either to shoot your opponent or to grab objectives far away.


I play 2 Valkyries in a 900 point game, which is quite a lot (they cost 372 points without the inside units!) and they were great for objective grabbing. However, they did not kill a thing.

 CplPunishment wrote:
The valk is overpriced and inaccurate on the move. That said, it is quite literally a flying tank!

With it's profile and being -1 to hit, the Valkyrie is a remarkably durable transport. Given that we have plenty of access to deepstriking plasma, I would load it full of either meltas or flamers, and cause havoc. I'd skip veterans and spam command squads here, and use the ability to disembark and move (and possibly advance) to really reach out and flamer or melta with double dice the target of choice.

 CplPunishment wrote:
The valk is overpriced and inaccurate on the move. That said, it is quite literally a flying tank!

I tried the Valkyrie a few times and my initial impression agrees with you. Interesting to play, but somewhat underpowered for the price, despite the boost to her firepower.
Maybe I should try it with additional heavy bolters for having 2D6+6 STR 5 AP-1 shots, but the problem of being a mobile vehicle by nature would be still there.

 Polonius wrote:

With it's profile and being -1 to hit, the Valkyrie is a remarkably durable transport. Given that we have plenty of access to deepstriking plasma, I would load it full of either meltas or flamers, and cause havoc. I'd skip veterans and spam command squads here, and use the ability to disembark and move (and possibly advance) to really reach out and flamer or melta with double dice the target of choice.

I keep wanting to give this a shot, but even when I cheesed it out weeks ago with demo packs and abused the underpowered squad rule and went to great lengths to try to justify it, I couldn't figure out how to make it more cost-efficient than plasma Scions against just about anything. I guess maybe if you turned around and picked up another load of guys and did it again, but that's turn three by the time the second batch makes it into combat.

 daedalus wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

With it's profile and being -1 to hit, the Valkyrie is a remarkably durable transport. Given that we have plenty of access to deepstriking plasma, I would load it full of either meltas or flamers, and cause havoc. I'd skip veterans and spam command squads here, and use the ability to disembark and move (and possibly advance) to really reach out and flamer or melta with double dice the target of choice.

I keep wanting to give this a shot, but even when I cheesed it out weeks ago with demo packs and abused the underpowered squad rule and went to great lengths to try to justify it, I couldn't figure out how to make it more cost-efficient than plasma Scions against just about anything. I guess maybe if you turned around and picked up another load of guys and did it again, but that's turn three by the time the second batch makes it into combat.

Its not competitive, its just good and usefull. If you are looking for competitive version, you have to use scions

You can make an argument that the best AM army is just plasma scions and Taurox Primes, with temepestus primes for the HQ taxes.

Very little can compete with them.

 Polonius wrote:
You can make an argument that the best AM army is just plasma scions and Taurox Primes, with temepestus primes for the HQ taxes.

Very little can compete with them.

This exactly

I do wish I could get a stripped-down Valkyrie with that 110 hull cost the vendetta has, and no guns at all except the option to take either heavy stubbers or heavy bolters in the doors (or maybe to steal the taurox prime's mini-punishers for the door guns).

Then I'd stick something scary inside so that my opponent is actually tempted to shoot it.

After all if it's not going to kill anything anyway why bother putting 40+ points of guns on it? Might as well just get my ablative armor as cheap as possible.

 Polonius wrote:
You can make an argument that the best AM army is just plasma scions and Taurox Primes, with temepestus primes for the HQ taxes.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I do raise my eyebrow at IG HQ's being referred to as 'taxes'.

 vipoid wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
You can make an argument that the best AM army is just plasma scions and Taurox Primes, with temepestus primes for the HQ taxes.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I do raise my eyebrow at IG HQ's being referred to as 'taxes'.

Yeah, valkyrie is a bit overcosted. But hey, so is vendetta . It either is a flying Gunboatt with 5+ BS (which is just bad) or is serving as a immobile fire platform (with 4+ BS), which does not fly...so why pay for the flyer benefits AND the transport capacity AND the BS 4+, when you can never use it all...

 Lothar wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
You can make an argument that the best AM army is just plasma scions and Taurox Primes, with temepestus primes for the HQ taxes.

I don't disagree with your overall point, but I do raise my eyebrow at IG HQ's being referred to as 'taxes'.

Yeah, valkyrie is a bit overcosted. But hey, so is vendetta . It either is a flying Gunboatt with 5+ BS (which is just bad) or is serving as a immobile fire platform (with 4+ BS), which does not fly...so why pay for the flyer benefits AND the transport capacity AND the BS 4+, when you can never use it all...

Er, are you sure you quoted the right person?

 Lothar wrote:

Oldman Lee wrote:
Has anyone tried a air cav style list in 8th any tips at all?

Well, flyers are quite good. However, Guard does not have a very good one (I dont count FW rules, only basic index, because FW units are often off the charts...too bad or too good). Valkyrie is a transport, not a gunboat. It will never have a good firepower for its points, especially with that 5+ BS after moving (without being damaged). It will move most of the time, since its a transport and you want it to act as a flyer, not a as an immobile fire platform.

Competitively speaking, its not good for its points. Semi-competitive or funny games - its great! You can transport your elite units like command squads or veterans or even Ogryns for melee. You can use those units either to shoot your opponent or to grab objectives far away.


I play 2 Valkyries in a 900 point game, which is quite a lot (they cost 372 points without the inside units!) and they were great for objective grabbing. However, they did not kill a thing.

I'm just looking for a list that semi competitive nothing To game breaking plus I would be using forgeworld

Well...I Think the way its meant to play is it zooms in, and drops off a unit (transport, tough, Flies) Then becomes a Gunship in hover mode...and as such is pretty darn good.

IMO the Valkyrie is best used to drop off a suicide Melta squad turn one.

Stuff your Valkyrie with 2x Command squad /w 4x Melta's each and a Company Commander. That's a total of 184 points minus the Valk.

Deploy it as close to your table edge as possible.
Next, change it to Hover mode and move the full 20".

Then, deploy your squads and move them into Melta range. If the enemy has two vehicles close to eachother (say, two Predators with that nifty Strategem they get...) and blow them both up.
Scions can't do this, since they are restricted to 9" distance. With Grav-Chute Insertion, you can deploy 9" away and then move 6" with your squads.

Seriously, don't be too afraid of putting your Valk into hover mode. With T7 and 14W, it can take a beating. And once it's dropped of it's cargo, any shot used by the enemy is in my opinion wasted on it.

If you can't drop your melta's where you want turn one, just stay in flight-mode and get as close as possible. Most enemies will ignore the Valk and even then, it will probably not be blown up turn one.

You cán move further than 20" (it can go a wooping 65" if you advance!) However, if you do so and then use Grave Chute, you have to roll a D6 for each model and on a 1 they die.

I keep kicking around the idea of buying a third Basilisk. Anyone think that feels like overkill for <= 2000 points?

Also, I keep thinking about getting another Chimera chassis to finish putting together my other FW hydra kit I've had sitting in a box for at least 5 years now. I'm not really a huge fan at the moment, but how does everyone else feel about the Hydra?

I love my three Basilisks. Together with a Master of Ordinance they form the core of my army's firepower, churning out shots turn after turn for a cheap price.

Well, apparently I had a third basilisk already. Found one in my old stripping container. At first I couldn't believe I didn't put it together as I had to have stripped it, like, years ago. Then I saw that it had the old style track assembly on it and I almost put it back.

Four Basilisks is even better

 daedalus wrote:
I keep kicking around the idea of buying a third Basilisk. Anyone think that feels like overkill for <= 2000 points?

Also, I keep thinking about getting another Chimera chassis to finish putting together my other FW hydra kit I've had sitting in a box for at least 5 years now. I'm not really a huge fan at the moment, but how does everyone else feel about the Hydra?

You will not regret 3 basilisks. Heck I run with 4. Take advantage of their new lack of firing arcs to hide them better, surround them with speed bumps and remember that their minimum range is gone too. Rolling 2d6 and pick the highest to determine number of shots is GREAT.

I've never used the hydra, but it is difficult to think of a better AA unit in our index.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:
Well, apparently I had a third basilisk already. Found one in my old stripping container. At first I couldn't believe I didn't put it together as I had to have stripped it, like, years ago. Then I saw that it had the old style track assembly on it and I almost put it back.

I will gladly take it off your hands then!

 Saber wrote:
I love my three Basilisks. Together with a Master of Ordinance they form the core of my army's firepower, churning out shots turn after turn for a cheap price.

Basilisk Vs. a Manticore, curiously?

Razerous wrote:

 Saber wrote:
I love my three Basilisks. Together with a Master of Ordinance they form the core of my army's firepower, churning out shots turn after turn for a cheap price.

Basilisk Vs. a Manticore, curiously?

Manticores offer everything a basilisk does and more. It's also more durable, having T7 and is easier to hide. I'm personally fielding 3 Manticores and a MoO.

 Naix wrote:

Razerous wrote:

 Saber wrote:
I love my three Basilisks. Together with a Master of Ordinance they form the core of my army's firepower, churning out shots turn after turn for a cheap price.

Basilisk Vs. a Manticore, curiously?

Manticores offer everything a basilisk does and more. It's also more durable, having T7 and is easier to hide. I'm personally fielding 3 Manticores and a MoO.

I've been convinced to field similar but with Harker. Industrial Strength Jungle Trimming.

Also I would counter Wyvern are better against some (few/lots) targets, in terms of damage output.

But Ty

It's a matter of preference. The Manticore and the Basilisk hit almost exactly as hard, and while the Manticore averages more shots over the course of the game it's more expensive. The Basilisk is also almost 100% more effective in the late game because it can actually shoot.

I guess the Manticore is ever so slightly better, but there really isn't much difference between the two. Poor design on GW's part to make two units that are essentially the same, but there you go.

I used to bring them and a wyvern. Until I realized that random number of shots sucks a big one.

Though artillery is scary (on paper). It makes your opponent focus on trying to get at them and can make them feel useless. Nowhere to hide sucker!!!